I can’t and won’t divulge who the person is, and I honestly have no idea if the name this person used to dialogue with me is a real one or a pseudonym. But after having what seemed like a genuine email conversation (initiated by them), I responded to the email thread this morning, only to find out that the email account has been deleted since yesterday.
I sincerely understand the reasons why this person would do that, and given the pressure they’re probably feeling from family and peers in the church, they probably felt it was better to just forget the conversation ever existed. But this is the problem with Stanton. It suppresses sincere inquiry.
If anyone makes an honest reading of this blog, they will find that I am an honest broker of facts. I find them, present them, and tell you what I think about them. But I believe in the God-given right of every individual to inquire after truth without me suppressing it. This is why I allow dissenting opinions in the comments, which my detractors both bash me for, and take advantage of. But that’s OK. Such is the price of freedom of thought. We will have disagreements. It’s part of the human condition.
But can we agree that anyone who comes along and tries to subvert the process of sincere inquiry is not an honest broker? Can we agree that they are afraid you will be persuaded by whatever facts you might uncover—so they pressure you to stop your inquiry and accept their version of the facts.
The problem with this is that facts are truth. We may all come to understand and conclude different things about the facts, but we cannot have our own facts. Either Merie was or wasn’t withdrawn from for causing division. Either she did or didn’t come back from that withdrawal. Either she did or didn’t eventually succeed in causing the division she was withdrawn from for attempting. All of these facts—not opinions—are self-condemning of the movement she started.
Below is my bounced email response this morning to this person:
Yes, the church has definitely improved on some of its teachings over the years. But all the years I grew in the sect, they bashed other churches for having partial truth, not the whole truth. The very fact that they have changed at all, condemns their original reason for breaking off. I sat through many nonmember classes growing up, and the recurring theme (and one of the most persuasive at the time) was that any church that changes their doctrines couldn’t have the truth, because the truth doesn’t change. They had what they called the “suitcase of books” full of men’s books on religion—books by Joseph Smith, Ellen G. White, Amy Simple McPherson, etc.These other sects/cults were constantly changing their doctrine to please the current generation. Well, that’s exactly what Stanton has done over the decades. As they’ve lost the younger generations, they have softened their doctrine to try to keep their kids and grandkids in the fold. But this simply illustrates the lie that Stanton has tried to tell, saying that they alone have the unchanging truth.
Here’s an article that might help:
They used to quote 1 Tim. 3:15 for years “But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” They said that this meant their church…their sect…was alone the pillar and ground of the truth. But if truth doesn’t change, doctrines shouldn’t
change. And theirs has, as you have acknowledged.
As for which church was the One True Church, Merie’s or the one she broke away from, you are asking the wrong question. The “one true church” is not a church with an address and a sign on the door. It is the spiritual body of believers who have obeyed and are part of his spiritual kingdom. Merie made the same mistake many of the first century disciples made. They thought the kingdom was a physical kingdom that would overthrow the Roman government. Instead, it was a spiritual kingdom:
Luke 17:20-21 – And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Here’s an article on the topic of the nature and name of the church:
Here are some more articles that might help you understand my point of view on Stanton’s misapplication of scripture:
Some parting thoughts:
“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear.” ~Benjamin Franklin
“Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” ~ Acts 17:12
And don’t forget my favorite saying around here: Truth shouldn’t be afraid of a lie. If someone’s afraid of you asking me questions, what are they afraid of? I can, and have, faced agnostics, atheists, cultists, sectarians, and my friends over differences of opinion. I love talking about truth, enquiring after it, seeking it with all my heart. The question is—does Stanton?
Kevin, God bless you. I never heard of the Stanton CoC until yesterday. I just have to let you know:
(1) The work you are doing via this blog is very important, and I hope you always know so.
(2) You may already be aware of another blog that I imagine would bless you so deeply, the Freedom Ring's blog. Here is a link: https://cecilhook.wordpress.com/about-freedoms-ring/. There is, as you know, never a need to believe everything or even 10% of what is on a blog, but I can honestly say that the Freedom's Ring blog saved my sanity by affirming that I wasn't crazy to wonder about certain legalistic things I was being taught religiously. Pun intended. 😉
(3) God bless and be with us all as we make our way to what God's really up to. Because God's way is amazing — like the most beautiful, warm, delicious-feeling sunshine. Once you taste it, its love and light and genius and effectiveness render the tactic of cultish, fearful control as nothing but man's misguided way. Some men cannot conceive of an unearnable salvation that is only possible as an unearned, undeserved gift of a God and Savior Who know we are dust and treat us lovingly as we walk with God.
To teachers and leaders and members in Stanton-like churches, God bless, and please meditate on 1 John 1:7, which reads: "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." God knew that even those walking in the light would need cleansing from sin. "Cleanseth" means continual cleansing. Notice: It is the blood of the most Holy Lamb that keeps us clean, not a prevalence of withdrawal tactics. From what I've read, the Stanton churches elevate and prefer man's strategies to deal with sin over the blood of Christ for continually cleansing sins. For me, it is God's way over any man's or woman's way, forever. God was genius enough to providd a plan of salvation that can handle our humanity and gradual transformation. God doesn't require instant perfection. Why are Stanton churches so harsh, so into withdrawing so quickly? These practices violate so much of the bible, such as Romans 5, Romans 12, 1 John 1:9, and especially Galatians 6:1-3: " 1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. 2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3 If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves."
(4) Finally, to those caught up in these types of churches, what if man is guilt and punishment addicted, and the gospel of the eternal God busts that wide apart? What if guilt and punishment addiction makes some people susceptible to controlling church practices and unable to fully accept simply/only God's salvation plan that saves us even knowing we'll stumble? This is discussed here: http://davidkflowers.com/2012/01/christian-guilt/.
I have many more thoughts, but I'll close now by saying please excuse my typos, and may God bless and keep us all!
I’m very familiar with Cecil Hook and his work toward unity. You’re spot on about 1 John 1:7. John was an amazing writer.
Lynn, I can't find your recent comment about the oppressive teacher in Tacoma so I'll post it here. Just to let you know, your assessment of her is correct; that teacher has been withdrawn from for oppression.
For examples?
Wow!!!
This is Lynn's comment I was referring to above about the oppression in Tacoma by the former female teacher. the comment got buried on the "Merie Was Right on This One" Post.
Lynn mm said:
"Very few are willing to risk withdrawal and excommunication"
This can't be more true. I'm sure that everybody has more to say than they are as to what really happened in the church. I know that I have enough to fill a book.
Yes, I believe that they shower you with love, but it is a false love. Their love is as shallow as when they smile and say hello, but when it comes to actually showing it to you by deed, they fail.
"let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth"
How can anybody claim love when their lives are unnecessarily torn apart by church judgement, when people walk in fear of being withdrawn from for questioning things they see are wrong, are told to break the bonds with family/friends. Of course we are told not to put them first or be unequally yoked, but burning bridges was never scripturally taught in the scriptures, but was taught to keep those bridges – Luke 16:8,9.
I, for one, along with the rest of you, saw this and it is interesting how we are taught that the truth will set us free and it has. It actually exposed their lies and lack of love.
There was very little growth that they could offer me. I gained most of it through prayer and a lot of study. The preacher from the south stated from the pulpit that he knew there were people who were not studying, yet they become our judges.
If I hear it right, the preacher from the south's wife wasn't a teacher before they came up here, yet she was made one here. For a lack of better words, she was vicious and you could tell there was a great lack of love in her. Even her own husband would question her motives on why taught/judged the way she did.
I saw all of the joy leaving me to being there among them. I love God, the law, and the bible, but I got to where I despised being with a lot of them and making it to classes. This was just wrong.
Anon 1200 yes I agree that many show a false love. Not everyone, but certainly a great majority.
When I left I was spoken about that I was "too emotional". That's a big problem there, having any emotions. Love is an emotion.
I too was losing my joy there long before I left. And the way I was treated, very much as if I had been withdrawn from, just because I chose to worship elsewhere, really assured me that I had made the best decision to leave.
Unfortunately a lot of bridges have been burned and I really don't want anything to do with Merie's church members except for those few who have maintained contact. I just hope one day things change.
Could we please stop commenting on the "Merie was right on this one"? The comments are so difficult to find and take forever to continue loading. Maybe we can continue the discussions here to make it easier for everyone.
Tell me about it.
Lynn mm.. THIS is the type of thing that they need to correct and fix and go back to people for. When we are correct! Just because their single mind didn't want to admit anything or be proven they were wrong, so they could stay the top dog and to then lose members over this kind of stuff. To me that's just ridiculous. They need to fix it when they didn't listen to other people.
I agree . Too much time wasted looking for comments.
People would get corrected, rebuked, or threatened with withdrawl for having a different understanding, which could be a correct understanding. I heard that is was young ones in the church who started questioning the "marriage bed" judgments, that lead to withdrawls, before they stopped and re-evaluated it enough to realize their understanding was wrong,
Lynn mm, Good for them! How can they NOT see that their understanding was wrong. A place where a few minds should have never been or butted into EVER. Leave people alone. The ones that thought they had this understanding right in the first place really need to step down and away, as this is only a small piece of the mess they have made. I'm still just stunned by the 6-inch rule that I read on here a couple years ago when I first found this blog. And if that is true it is just sick sick sick. It seems the life of the church is to meddle and gossip and that's it. I saw this the very first week I was in the church when I was trying to hide from their over the top love bombing. Ugh
Lynn mm, did they go to the ones that were withdrawn from for this and tell them they were wrong? Or do they pick and choose who they go to for a wrong withdrawal? OR do they believe the holy spirit gave them the understanding at the time with the right to change their mind and not have to go back to the people that they withdrew from?
I don't know about apologies. I just know that they had their withdrawls lifted.
The lack of a true eldership, something even Merie's Church teaches, is one of the biggest problems that results in these crazy judgments. And the use of the May Week is the other. The churches are not autonomous because of at least these 2 factors. Tracy's story among others shows us the damage and power of the May Week. Many of your other stories tell us the damage created when men and women lead churches with no authority given by God in the respective roles they lead. These men and women give the advice and even try to force certain things on people as if they were above the reproach mentioned in the Bible for elders. Many of them do not have the fruit in their own lives that are the clear requirements in the Bible for elders. They do exactly what God called elders to do, but just change their titles.
That is one of the biggest deceits Merie set up and continues to be a deceit that Satan allows them to believe–that their way is correct. That their exceptions are right by God. They give no exception to other churches and love to point out how they are wrong, but when they do it, God is "allowing it". Pfft.
I completely agree with all of what you wrote M Long! They can be wrong for many years and even admit they were wrong but somehow because it's 'them, the one true church' the wrong is acceptable because God allowed it and then later God allowed them to get better understanding. Instead of blaming men for making wrong judgments and making rules where there should be no rules, they put it on God (the wrong judgement was okay with God and then getting it right was also God's will). It is so frustrating to me that this is believed by very sincere people (at least the ones I know). It really boils down to 4 people deciding what is correct judgment and what isn't correct judgment and correcting their incorrect judgement, and recorrecting their corrected judgment, and excusing their past incorrect judgment… it makes me dizzy just thinking about it. Really, discussion at May meetings boils down to 4 people getting the rest of the teachers on their page and then the teachers asking questions to make sure they understand the judgement; not questioning the actual judgement.
M Long and Anon 1:31 plus May weeks are unscriptural and a complete waste of time. I attended six of them. You see if people were honest miserable and tired. I saw a picture from last Monday the first day of this year’s meetng. KS, MG and DV all looked horrible. Just saying the truth. Was so funny to watch people fall asleep at those meetings. Really representatives of congregations who paid there way sleeping aka dosing haha at these all important meetings. What a joke many times these people who proclaim to have the Holy Spirit though they do not, end up shelving topics that the entire sisterhood (Merie Hood) discusses for at least a week. Too funny.
Agree with all. I attended the May week of 2005, and that was a wake up experience for me. I agree with AnonymousMay 14, 2018 at 1:31 PM,
"Really, discussion at May meetings boils down to 4 people getting the rest of the teachers on their page and then the teachers asking questions to make sure they understand the judgement; not questioning the actual judgement." That was exactly what I saw.
One of the questions was on whether we could draw pictures of characters and animals from the Bible, like Jonah and the Whale. The answer was no, it was idolatry. The same teachers talk. Some teachers are guaranteed to never give a May Trip talk. The reasoning on who talks and who doesn't is totally random. It's a stagnant club. Reminds me of "One flew over the Cuckoo Nest". All the patients are there voluntarily and Nurse Ratched abuses them all. If you step off the reservation, as Jack Nicholson did, you get electroshock therapy, and you can get oppressed so badly, that as Solomon said, "oppression makes a wise man go mad". You can go stark raving loony if you don't understand it. But if you understand you are the worst enemy, you'll do fine. Those who blame others for their circumstances have a hard time. Those who understand their circumstances are designed to make them what ought to be, let the fire of adversity refine them into gold.
Yes, that's really something. I never fell asleep once, and there are people who fall asleep monthly, and yet I'm the one excommunicated. Absurd. How can you even know what is being said when you are asleep all the time? How do you fall asleep in a Bible class? That's a skill I never learned. I think it's a reflection on the teacher, because I guarantee you no one fell asleep when Martin Luther King Jr. gave his "I have a dream speech". I bet no one fell asleep when Jesus gave his Sermon on the Mount Speech either. Prolly no one was nodding off Martin Luther or Alexander Campbell were preaching either. When I was in the Navy, if someone was falling asleep, they were swiftly aroused by the speaker.
Not only are people winking off all the time, but these are the same ones, when someone boldly does tell the truth, that get mad and say that the person who dares to oppose the teachers must be proud. Umm, how do they know? They were asleep the whole time.
I do see people who like to sleep in the Bible weren't generally spoken of in favorable terms and it was generally linked with slothfulness which was a deadly sin. If the Bible looked at sleeping in as a serious sin, how much more of a sin is it when you pass out in a Bible class or worship?
True, Jesus' disciples fell asleep when he prayed in the garden alone, but they can be excused, he wasn't with them, and they were tired. I think it was night time too, and I bet I would have knocked off too. But you can bet I wouldn't have been studying the backs of my eyelids
Nice to read some intelligent conversation now from former members and not all those wasted comments from MC on a thread that. Has nearly 500 replies. A year ago it was very helpful but past few weeks makes me dizzy. Keep up the good work helping those of us who need answers to our questions.
Wow Craig. MG had a very severe stroke and KS had major surgery to remove a tumor which left her face partially paralyzed. They have every right to look horrible, as if that has anything to do with anything.
I myself don't wish sickness etc on anyone. We are all going to get sick and die of course. But when I was in the church and something happened to someone who had left or a withdrawal they put the blame on God doing it on purpose or they must have not been right with God was said if the were still In the church. I heard this from more than one. What do they say when something happens to any of them still in the church that are supposedly right with God?
I also heard much talk about how God punished people with sicknesses and other bad stuff for leaving the church. Those stories become LEGENDS. I remember a certain person talking about how her in-laws house burned down and their insurance had accidentally lapsed and that that was basically because they left the church. (no gossip there!)
I would hear a lot of this kind of stuff from my ex and also people who'd been in a long time. But when these things happened to members of Merie's church it was a TRIAL. I'm sure if anything happens to me or mine, that's what they'll say about me. Ugh, what a double STANDARD. They have no concept of what Judge nothing before its time means.
It's really sad stupidity. I don't think they realize how ignorant they look with some of this crazy stuff.
AnonymousMay 14, 2018 at 7:23 PM
You haven't shown any intelligent conversation at all, so your evaluation of what is intelligent or not is pretty meaningless. Keep flattering yourself that your anonymous spite appeals to any but the corrupt and foolish.
One of the punishments for telling the truth is we have to be followed by vindictive snakes like you who make it a business to destroy the truth you never learned on your own. Not only do you not tell the truth, you hate those who do.
I remember when Saul died. He tried to kill David. Yet, David did not rejoice in his death. But David wept and mourned. This was not unusual for David, he also mourned for Abner and for Absalom who also tried to kill him.
I honestly have no ill will towards any one in the church, and I pray they would all get better and take no joy in the afflictions they endure. Early in my withdrawal, I would make sure to emphasize the various harms that happened to Christians, hoping they would lift my withdrawal if they recognized God opposed them. It only hardened their hearts further, and strengthened their resolve. Like Pharaoh, many in Stanton have a hard time learning. When told they wouldn't grow and God would oppose them if they didn't change their teaching, they double down on their oppression. Sad. It's sad when humans fight so hard for recognition and power here on earth, and so little for truth and what is right, regardless of the cost to themselves.
Cue the triggered snowflake to deride this comment.
MC – I am once again asking; not dictating, not demanding; but begging you to create your own website or blog. You can easily do this yourself by purchasing a domain name from GoDaddy.com such as LearnFromOurFounders.com (which is available; I just checked) or Read5Biographies.com is also available or PurityandVirtue.com is available. The cost is only $11.99 per year. Pick any available domain name that you like and use a free GoDaddy website template to create your site in less than one day and 'you're off to the races'. You don't have to be a computer wiz to do this; if you can make it through the nuclear program in the Navy you can do this. GoDaddy is just one of many website creation sites; you can use whichever you like but I did hear GoDaddy is quite user friendly.
AnonymousMay 15, 2018 at 11:54 AM
Thank you for being the Pol Pot of Kevin's site, and trying to destroy comments that are too truthful for your tastes.
Thank you Kevin for helping me to set up my website. It is intended to replace the worthless rubbish that doubles as news that Americans get on hellivision, newspapers, liberal online sites, and other liberal sources.
It's not for the faint of heart.
http://messanonews.com/
It not only tells the news, but also tells the issues that prevent many Americans from grasping, much less applying the truth.
So we do the job of the church and media, and don't even charge.
That said, I'll comment where I please and what I please, and I'll thank you to take your busy body self to some safe space where reality won't bother you anymore. I really can't stand SouthPark, and apologize for one word I wouldn't use in advance, but other than that, I think this video is perfect for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U
Bullyproof windows
Everyone likes me and think I'm great.
troll safe doors
People don't judge me and haters don't hate.
LOL!! That's your problem, Stanton's problem, and the Democrats problem.
I just don't understand you MC. You are so insulting and mean. I was truly trying to help.
Trying to help silence the voice of truth?
Exactly who in history that did good are you imitating? Let me answer for you. No one.
http://www.constitution.org/cl/cato_015.htm
MC- Why would I be accused of trying to silence the voice of truth when I encouraged you to set up a website and took the time to explain how to do so. I thought my ideas for the domain names were a reflection of the message you are wanting to promote. You don’t know me and you can’t differentiate my posts from other anonymous posters with accuracy yet you accuse me of all sorts of evil. When anyone disagrees with you you come out swinging with remarks that are unkind and inflammatory, making personal and demeaning attacks.
I am trying to encourage you to create a platform where you are able to present your ideas just as Kevin has done with his blog. The comment section of Kevin’s blog is not meant to be a public forum in which to dump numerous documents (Kevin’s words) that are not germane (sp?) to the subject. Kevin posts about the SCOC and it’s history with an emphasis on readers establishing or reestablishing a relationship with God after being misguided by the SCOC. Most of the readers and posters have left the SCOC. We are here to discuss and ask questions about the SCOC and the teachings of Merie Weiss plus share our personal experience with the SCOC. There is clearly a special audience here that reads the blog and participates in the discussion.
Rather then belittling people for their ahistorical point of view, educate them from your website. Maybe start a study group or book club where participants read biographies and discuss them on your website.
Once again, I’m not trying to stop you, just trying to encourage you to have curtesy for this blog and post about the SCOC here and other topics you’re passionate about post on your website. As an example, I know of a woman reading this blog who is passionate about essential oils yet she isn’t using this blog as an essential oils forum. Would you appreciate her dumping numerous documents here promoting essential oils and then belittling people for not knowing about them or not using them? I don’t take time to log into this blog to learn about essential oils or politics or American history although I am interested in each of those subjects
I am appealing, with brotherly kindness, to your sense of propriety here and I am hoping you will understand the spirit in which this is written. I am not your enemy or the enemy of truth.
Why would you take it upon yourself to tell others to go elsewhere? No one who believed in free speech ever did that. May I recommend you learn what free speech and the First Amendment actually means? It means that everyone has the right to say what they believe, when it's virtuous and wise.
Who gave you the authority to say what opinions are wanted or unwanted here? No one, that's who. Truth is always relevant. This entire blog is a protest against Stanton doing exactly what you are currently doing. Strong arming opinions that they don't like. This is your subtle method. It doesn't matter if you are courteous about it. Your end is the same as a dictator. Get rid of ideas you don't want to hear. Well, who cares what you want to hear. You need to hear ideas that are unpleasant to you. That's what makes you grow. No one forced you to come on here and read my comments. But you did. And you then presumed that it was your job to tell me that I can take my opinions somewhere else, and thought you were Christian for doing so. Umm, tyranny is never Christian, and neither is arbitrary despotism.
Your words give you away. Your ideas tell me what you know of the past. If you learned the lessons, you'd never dream of trying to silence opinions that are not only relevant, but also contain the solutions to every societal problem we are facing today. But your perverted interpretation leads you to not only disagree, but openly suggest my ideas don't belong and yours do. How arrogant.
We are all in America, so it's history is germane to this discussion too. Just because you are asked to stretch your mind a little does not mean you need to go running around screaming bloody murder and disinvite people from blogs. Yet, this is what intellectual sloths do. They both hate to learn and hate those who love it too.
Essential oils aren't essential to any of our moral or spiritual lives, but everything I posted is. Big difference. I'm not on here selling anything. And I am a salesman. So I can differentiate just fine, thank you.
I appeal to you with brotherly kindness to go be a busybody elsewhere.
While no one protests about all the lies the hellivision, newspapers, internet, or schools tell on a daily basis, you protest when I tell the truth. Well, you can take that attitude and take a long walk on a short pier. Just because you weren't prepared to read the truth doesn't mean it should be silenced. Did anyone force you to read my comments? No, they did not. Did anyone force you to respond to my comments? No, they did not. So kindly let sleeping dogs lie. If you don't like what I say, then practice self control and ignore it.
Anon, thank you for saying what we all have been trying to say to Monty in one way or other. The problem is that he's just not reasonable. Your explanations about the specificity of what this blog was set up for and what the audience is here to do just goes over Montys big fat ego. Just ignore him. But thank you, really. It lets us know none of us is crazy in being frustrated by Monty. Kind of like when we found this blog, we realized there were others who were seeing the wrong things in the SCOC.
Better yet, let's all blog on his site as if we were Democrat snowflakes and tick him off there so he writes his dissertations there instead.
As for his comments on this blog, let's do take at least one bit of advice from Monty. "ignore it".
As for we in this house we scroll right by all of them until we get to anyone who is not Monty. Keep up the good work everyone.
Or maybe just out of respect on both sides, start an MC section on this blog so we don't have to spend so much time scrolling through miles of quotes/posts etc and keep loading all of the pages. Those who are interested can go to the MC blog section to read them.
It was interesting how that SCOC started with a strictness on marriage/remarriage and a lot of people had to get divorces and some were told that they lawfully could not remarry. There were a lot of torn apart families and finances getting ripped apart by way of child support. Then, through May week it is all undone. The understandings changed and those families may have never had to split up coupled with many, who were not lawful to remarry, getting remarried.
I was so confused by this as I knew of one, who had been remarried, split from their spouse, and then remarried somebody entirely different.
After all of the unnecessary damage done by withdrawing for uncleaness, defiled marriage bed, corrupt mind, and separating of married couples, they change the judgments. I'm not saying a sin isn't a sin and we are not going to held accountable for it, it's just that a lot of damage was done by this and then they decide to stay out of Christian's homes and lives.
Even though the church may not be a in depth with its' members' lives, they still are trying to judge you for your life choices and liberties. What may be wrong for one Christian isn't necessarily wrong for another when it comes to liberties. (Why should I be judged of another man's conscience) A lot of what I saw was like me judging you in accordance with my own conscience. Unnecessary judgments
That would be the day when a church would TELL me to divorce my husband. What about your vows? How these marriages stay together when one is in this weird church and the other is out or attending another is amazing to me. I would say it is not really a marriage at all but a sham. How sad! I heard about cults again today on a short program and how they ruin so many lives. Be strong, have faith in God and get out and save the children.
I was one that HAD to divorce because of the church. What are their rules right now? Which rules do not allow you to stay married?
Anon 9:21
Thats exactly what I did. I left and now my children have read this blog. I would do anything it takes to keep them out of the church!
Can someone explain to me if you're not in the one true church then how does God even recognize a marriage outside of the church if he has nothing to do with us
I met a couple in Merie's church who were adopting a beautiful little baby girl. They had her for a while. Well, their marriage came into question and they separated while they figured it out. That caused them to lose the little girl after having had her quite a while.
They eventually figured out their marriage was fine after a couple of years. This was in AK and that's what I was told when I asked about that sweet baby.
I just wonder how many people are going to keep allowing this. That little baby lost the only parents she knew.
I HATE the division of families that Merie Weiss created and that her followers continue to promote these rules. I can't believe I went along with this stuff for so long.
They must feel so proud of themselves. I hope they have to pay for the things they have done. I wish that on them greatly. A few men ruined everything with small minds. Ugh
M Long and I bet that never bothered them one bit because they rolled their eyes at adoption and Foster Care. I couldn't believe the way they acted about foster care when I was in the church. It made me sick
What was the attitude toward foster care and adoption when you were in?
Foster care was frowned upon big time. One lady (who I assume is still in the church) basically told me to stay away and not get involved in foster care. Made me sick. Even when I was new I was smart enough not to tell these people anything that always wanted to know things. I knew a lot about the church before I ever went in and I also knew about the gossip from only being in the first week watching it. I read somewhere on here when somebody else was talking about it that they have lifted their frowning upon it. Changed their mind on that too LOL but from what I understand now they're still not 100% for it. Always changing their minds always changing their minds after destroying and hurting people. The holy spirit's working great power I see in hurting people. And they really believe that it's not them doing it to members. They need to take responsibility for their own warped mind and so called understandings
Anon 8:24 aww okay that’s the reason. I was making a point of how part of there righteousness is to push push and push the flesh to the point where they are really miserably tired and at meetings they fall asleep during talks. No disrespect to the three beautiful ladies.
What are the reasons why the church would make you divorce? I never heard of this other than the Catholic Church rules in regards to allowing couples marry in the church. What are the dating rules for young people who just want to go on a date? I am a family member with family involved in this church.thank you
I want to know what the rules are now to divorce/marriage because I was one affected in this church and having to divorce. I think all new members should be told of all the screw-ups this church has done from their so called Holy Spirit decisions. I can't see God standing back and giving them all the Time in the World to keep destroying families before he decides to let them know what's wrong. What a bunch of baloney
So there's a couple things I want to clarify. The couple who gave up their little girl were super nice. The problem I have is the fact that "counsel" helps make these decisions. As Kevin wrote in his post Teachers in Lieu of Elders, the teachers go around helping to make and enforce these decisions but HAVE NO QUALIFICATIONS for it, as the Bible speaks for elders in Timothy. They sit there and mock Mormons for their "elders" who are just young men, but Merie's church is no different! You have teachers who have bad fruit, might be women, might be someone who is in a second marriage, kids who hate them and will certainly never become Christians, yet these people are doing an elders job. That is hypocrisy when they very often teach about these requirements.
Someone said Jesus didn't have a college degree. Well, he was JESUS, God's son! Some of the apostles were very educated men. And degrees or certificates in counseling would include learning about confidentiality, something the leaders and older members in Merie's church are sorely in need of.
As for dating, you should only date someone in the church. You have 40 congregations with just a few singles in each. Good luck to you. You might be single forever as some are or you might be stuck in a marriage out of desperation. I left when I became single and found myself a good man. Marriage is marriage but he's been more faithful than the one who brought me into the SCOC. And more stable. That's just my experience.
I also fostered a high school senior. I wasn't told no, but she was older and had been coming as a visitor for a while with us. Probably viewed more as a nonmember. Unfortunately it didn't work out after that year but she was pretty set in her ways at that age. I've also seen others adopt and foster so I don't have the experience others have but I don't doubt their stories.
As for divorce and remarriage rules, well I lived thru that one too hahaha. If you want drama, marry into the SCOC! My now-ex who brought me into the church committed adultery in his first marriage, nullifying ours. We were eventually withdrawn from for not leaving each other (I was less than 2 years in the church). We still divorced based on that and both came back eventually too to the sect. He's still in. Obviously I am not. So that's the rule NOW. If you left your first spouse, it must be determined WHO SLEPT WITH SOMEONE ELSE FIRST. So for example, your spouse leaves you and has a good tolerance for celibacy and you don't, even say if you didn't want to divorce, well you're the one in the wrong and can't remarry. That's just one example, and I'm not saying that's my experience though with my ex and his ex they did sit down with counsel to figure out who slept with someone first, and it was decided he was first. (But thank you for that, I love my life now).
So I guess that's the rule- whoever sleeps with someone else first can never remarry (until the other person dies, causing for some imaginative exes, let me assure you ;).
M Long, thank your for explaining all of that! 🙂
Does anyone know what Merie Weiss died of?
Hi all…just going through this thread kind of starts bringing back the past. I knew Merie Weiss personally. I met her when my father ran the COC in Eugene/Springfield Oregon. Merie stayed at our house a number of times. Look, im going to be straight up. You may not like it but i really dont care what anyone in the SCOC or any other part of this so called church thinks of me. I refuse to be anonymous. My name is Jude Brooks. Merie was NOT a nice person. She was oppressive and angry. She made my father tie me to my bed every night to prevent "mastubation". The beatings i received from various members of the church as well as my own father were nightmarish. Look, im not trying to bash anyone but the elder members in Stanton, Portland, Washington…they all know who me and my family are. We grew up under the oppresive teaching of Merie Weiss. Check this out….i asked my father 2 years ago why he did the things he did to me and he had no other answer but, "they told me to". And this is the man that would always ask me, if everyone else jumps off a bridge, are going to as well? I dont know, i see a lot of arguing back and forth and it just seems to me that if you see wrondoing in the church, you should stand up and adress it full force. My name is Jude Brooks. People would never recognize me now because i wanted to do a complete 180 from how i was raised. I am covered in tattoos and have piecings and i smoke cigarettes and weed. And you know what, im not going to hell. That i can guarantee you. The God i know now is a kind loving gentle merciful god. In my Native American tongue, we would say…Wakan-Tanka…translated, The Great Mystery. Im rambling but Kevin…you rock! Im so glad all of us kids made it out of that without being complete lunatics locked up in the nuthouse! Lol. Just know, i love you all and keep fighting for the RIGHT REASONS!
I fully believe that the reason most teachers did the crazy things they did was because they were told to. It feels good and safe to be the teacher of a congregation. Good and safe because you do the rebuking, rarely if ever get rebuked, you do the questioning, you don’t get questioned, you know the treasury is there if you need it plus you are in the special club of those who go to May meeting and you get to have the inside scoop on the goings on in your congregation and the other congregations too. You get to usually have your way in business meetings too. It’s a win win win and all you have to do is obey counsel and don’t question anything. You can’t express a word of doubt or decent or you’re doomed so you block it out and forge ahead with blinders until someone above you (one of the 4) tells you it’s time to change your thinking to whatever the new way of thinking might be and you willingly do so.
Ever notice how many times when an older one gets in trouble for oppression they get withdrawn from for just doing what they were taught to do, following the example of their teacher and being the strict teacher they were encouraged to be?
One thing I fought the preacher from the south (CS) when he got here, centered around a scenario he posed. He asked what would we do if an older, more established, member came to us and claimed that one of our children did something wrong, would we punish our child for it, even if the child denies it. Then went so far to ask if we would punish them, even though the child denies it, if the member pushed for wanting the child punished.
I kept bringing out that if the child did not have a history of doing such things, sincerely denies doing it, and we punish them for something that they did not do that they could lose faith in their parents and members of the church. It was rebutted with this scripture –
1 Peter 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
and that since they are going to be Christians and have to do it then that they should start learning how to handle it now.
I had an abusive step father who would believe other people in accusing us of things we didn't do and beat us for it. We grew up hating him. I don't want that happening to anybody's child(ren).
I remember my father going to the May meetings. I wish i didnt. Everytime he came back from one, his punishments were EXPONENTIALLY worse on me than before. I hated it when he went, not because i would miss him, but because i always knew the punishments would get worse.
It was cancer i believe. She used to stay at our house in Springfield, Or. when i was younger. I still have pics of her with me and my family. That woman LOVED the color red!! Lol Im no longer involved with the SCOC or any other COC. Its dangerous.
I thought it was cancer too, but I wasn't sure so didn't want to say. Jude, good for you not being anonymous and telling us your story first-hand. Your voice carries a lot of weight. It underscores that this sect really wasn't ever "the truth" just because Merie said so.
I just keep thinking about all those who stop to read here and how their consciences cannot be so bothered to leave a place whose founder was so evil as to tell parents to tie up their children at night. How OFF is that?
What do you people have to hear to leave Merie's church?
BIKE tour…not bile tour…lol slip of the thumb…lol
What kind of member would even want to stay in a church like this.. It's almost scary and it disgusts me.. And the tying of the hands etc, I know two members in the church right now that have said yes that is true and they are old timers.. I almost just can't even associate them because where can a person's mind be to let something like that happen to your child because you have such fear of God.. A person has to have been born with a certain type of mind in order to even deal with something like this in a church.. I'm wondering if they even know how to love unconditionally… Has to be lacking to let anyone try to tell you to do something like this period. It's only obvious what Merie was like and it's sickening
Jude, I remember your mom and Dad from back in the day. Are they still together? Are they sorry for the things they put you through?
So sad how this cult and their followers destroy their families. Get the word out this is a cult and a destructive one. I can hardly bear to be around the people who are still in it I stay away from them as much as I can. Normal people can hardly believe all this….but it is true. I can see why I don’t even care about going to church. I don’t trust them but I do trust a God.
And they say they are one.. Lol.. Ya, secrets in the creepy cellar is what it reminds me of, but they will try to make light of the situation after they change their mind that it was wrong.. I watch this from someone I still know in the church . They come up with excuses.. I had a teacher that always seemed so miserable you could tell she didn't like men in her own way… One man had told her that he loved someone and she told him you don't even know what love is LOL LOL well I guess lets strap some kids down to the bed and call that love lol..this really is sick and twisted . The holy spirit made them do it Lol.. Can you imagine being a man and being "groomed" into this thinking from Merie .. Ugh lol
I myself think they would still do this to children, but in this day and age they know they would be in trouble for that. Why all the secrets of the way the church used to be before they changed their ruling on other things.. If it was the Holy Spirit leading them the whole time they shouldn't be embarrassed about it or they shouldn't have a problem talking about the past on why they did Sick Things
When Merie was in the hospital another teacher, who was close to her and tried to take her place, was teaching a lot of these things behind Merie's back. On a tap she has a list that was mad up of the things this teacher was teaching while Merie was in the hospital and was going over it saying that the tying of children was illegal and if the police ever got a hold of that list that they would be in a lot of trouble.
**tape
I would like to make something VERY CLEAR here. I came across a comment on this blog that was saying that the teachings about tying children in their bed were as such: the wrists and ankles were to be lightly tied with a soft material so as not to cause marks or cut off circulation. Now, let me tell you the TRUTH of the matter. I can personally attest to the fact that i was TIGHTLY bound around my wrists and ankes….WITH ROUGH ROPE. When the rope was tied around my wrists it would be pulled so tightly that my shoulder was pulled out of socket. My ankles were bound just as tight. Again, the rope was pulled so tight that i had bruises and open raw wounds. And if i had to pee…tough luck. I was told if i peed in the bed it would be so much worse for me. Well, that wasnt a lie. One night they made me keep drinking water starting before dinner all the way up until it was bedtime…i was not allowed to go before i went to bed either. Well, after awhile, tied there…couldnt move…i couldnt hold it anymore. And i dared not call out and try to wake either parent up either. So, i let it go. The next morning they came in, got my 2 brothers ready for school and sent them on their merry way. (They didnt get tied to the bed) When they came back in the room it was on. I was left tied to the bed while i was beat until i blacked out. I remember waking up in the bathtub in cold water and i couldnt move or cry or anything. Eventually, my step-mom came in and kind of halfway cleaned me up and set me in an empty room all day to "think about" what i had done. I wasnt allowed to attend school for almost a week because they didnt want anyone to see the marks. So yeah. Thats apparently what they were supposedly told to do with me. I know this is a graphic account but these things HAVE to be brought to light. I have no desire for revenge but let me tell you, my father has been reduced to an absolute skeleton from cancer and other serious afflictions in the past 8 years. I wont go to his funeral when he passes as i just dont care. I have a very loving birth mother and step-father. My step-father is my hero. Im 45 now, almost 46 but he remains one of the most important people in my life and i wouldnt want it any other way.
This is just plain child abuse. Was your father ever turned into CPS? What happened to your birth mother and birth father? Divorced by why and why did you have to live with these monsters? Are they still in this CULT? Did you ever get to live with your birth mother? How many children in your family? See if you can get on a talk show to tell your story. This behavior still going on?
That's what I'm saying.. there are ways to go after the church and cause them many problems if people want to put enough effort into it..
The old control freaks that still run the church need to deal with how they allowed people to be treated. Believe me when I tell you there are ways to go after them.
@anon 2:13pm…Al brooks is my birth father, his wife Rita is my step-mother. They are the ones who raised me in this cult. CPS was NEVER called as great lengths were taken to ensure that no one would ever see the marks. I was coached on every possible angle that any authorities might come at me with. I lived in total complete mind numbing fear of my father so therefore, i did as he told me too. To make a super long story short,i lived in this fear until the age of 17. I believe it was about 6 months before i turned 17 that my father and stepmom were withdrawn from along with another couple who were higher up in eugene for murmuring. At that point my father and stepmom decided to leave the cult and fell away and never returned to the church. They ended up moving to Texas where he stayed with her for a couple more years before turning his back on her with no warning and abandoning her to go party with his own brothers. The other couple is in Tacoma still in the cult. I had been in contact with my birth mother from the age of 13, who incidentally had me kidnapped from her when i was like 1 or 2 years old by my father and he used his evengelistic standing with the SCOC be able to be moving from state to state to keep me hidden from her. Anyways, the second i turned 17 my birth mother bought me a train ticket to Cali where she lived. I had 2 half brothers…same dad as me, diff mom. I didnt care about any of them. Neither one of them EVER got tied to beds, beat or anything. One of them is in prison for the rest of his life for raping my daughter when she was 6 years old. He can rot. Dont care. The other one lives with my father in a southern state. Where he is hopelessly addicted to meth and continues to steal money and everything else from my father. He sits in a tiny little trashed out black mold filled room watching child porn nonstop. Not my problem. I washed my hands of them completely about 2 years ago. I dont even know if my father is still alive. I Dont care if he is dead or alive. At 17, when i went to live with my birth mom, i finally felt a little of the fear start to loosen. She and her husband, who is absolutely my hero, in every way shape and form, my daddy, as it were, showed me what REAL, UNCONDITIONAL LOVE was. But alas, i was so jacked sideways in my head from the teachings, the abuse, the hate…that i was a huge mess. My poor mom. She had her hands full with me. I was a mess. By the time i turned 21 i had left my real moms house and exploded into the deep underbelly of drugs, sex, guns and violence. But thats another story i will talk about later.
Continuing… I ended up in Oklahoma and got married to my first with whom i had 2 children with. I was 22 when my daughter was born. By then, i was heavy i to every hard drug known to man basically. Crack, cocaine, meth, pills, booze, acid and much much more. 2 years later my son was born. By then both me and my wife were both heavy into drugs and partying. Our marriage started falling apart in a big way. Duh…lol. After about 12 or 13 years of being married to her we ended up splitting up because of my continued drug use and street violence. She had gotten clean and sober like 2 years before we split up and got tired of me being an idiot. After we split up, my daughter was 10 and my son was 8, i ended back up in cali. Still on drugs heavily all the way up to November of 2008. I went to rehab that was affiliated with this little baptist church i got drug into. I got clean and sober and ended up actually staying with that church for years. I was ordained and became the co-pastor. Then i left that church after about 6 or 7 years i think and promptly went back to drugs and violence for a few more years. Got married to my second wife during that time but of course that was a marriage doomed from the start. It only lasted a few years and was terribly violent and toxic. I ended up leaving her standing on the amtrak platform in central cali, flipped her off, got on the train to Southern Cali and didnt look back. I went back to my birth mom. She and her husband (whom i consider to be a better and more real daddy than Al) gently took me back into their home a complete broken horrible nightmarish mess and nursed me back to health and were so awesome in helping me get clean and sober again. And im still with them to this day. They are my safety. They are my pillars. I love you mom and dad, so much. But still, to this day, neither one of my children want anything to do with me. I can only hope that time will heal us and we can be a family again. Whew. And thats the ABBREVIATED version! Lol. More to come though. My thumbs is hurtin!!
M Long I couldn’t agree more. What do people have to hear to leave Merie’s church. With Jude Brooks comments and so many more throughout the blog people should be utterly disgusted and members utterly disgusted and embarrassed to their very core that they are involved in such a horrible religious organization. Cult. Makes me wonder how many more stories there are out there that have not been told. This cult needs to be exposed to all of Society. Come on members read the blog. All of the articles and comments. Your conscience will be pricked. Unless it’s not functioning properly. Do not fear GP and his threats. He is nobody. Doing so is fearing man. God has nothing to do with GP or Meries cult. Read the blog and you’ll understand why. God is disgusted.
Craig and M Long. How much was hidden from you about Merie, the early and crazy masterbation stuff, the tying children to their beds and the history behind how the ‘off church’ came to be known as such?
The only crazy touching privates I knew about was from my ex who joined in the early 80s and worshipped the ground Merie and Gary walked on. He just told me if kids were taking long showers they were up to no good. If the boys especially took long showers he was banging on the doors. I thought it was a bit much but was like better safe than sorry. The whole tying up thing I never heard about until I got on here. But because he had told me some odd things over the years and witnessed too much sexual stuff in the church, all this here suddenly made sense.
Interestingly, like many others I wanted to avoid my kids getting into any of this stuff. But they were exposed, not personally or directly, but too much indirect exposure to a lot of this stuff. The sect is very liberal in using certain terms and in allowing very specific confessions or withdrawals to tell us someone's private business. And of course the kids are around to hear all of this.
As for the off church explanations, well that pretty much goes to the parts Kevin explains here, at least all the positive ones about Merie. She went door to door to recruit people because there was something wrong with ALL churches of Christ. She groomed Gary to preach. They started a new church that was the only true Church. That kind of stuff. I never knew she was mean or she condoned any of these things and taught them.
But I dislike hypocrites such as the Mormons who pretend their founder Joseph Smith was so divine and don't teach their own kids the truths about his pedophilia, etc. This place is no different. Lies, deceit, and a founder who was plain old mean. Can't be truth and can't be from God.
Did you ever listen to her tapes? Or did your congregation pass out copies of her writings? Were you ever told the story of Jim mikkelsen or ron woods the other evangelists? Just curious, I don’t mean to badger, I just have lots of questions.
Her tapes were so old they were hard to hear. But she sounded like the Wicked witch in Wizard of Oz. Honestly, not to be mean, that's what her voice sounded like.
I never heard of Mikkelsen or Woods (what stories?). The only one I heard about was DC but that was ONLY because I found her site on my own. I was told what happened then, from counsel's point of view.
Yes, my ex had copies of her writings. And those are how we found this site. I was looking for PDFs that DC has posted years ago and this site popped up this time. I truly believe God let me see this in His own time. I was ready to see the truth. I had already been questioning much in my mind…
I first came in in 1983 and even though I did not meet Merie personally, I listened to a lot of the tapes that she was sending out, so I got to hear a lot of what she was teaching and what was going on in other congregations.
The tying kids to beds came from Hazel. They were making children go to bed wearing mittens and they made the so afraid to touch themselves to go to the bathroom that the kids, especially boys, would go with their hands in the air.
I personally have copies of a lot of her talks.
I heard a lot of talks on Jim mikkelsen on ron woods. Jim was the 1st Evangelist and he went off from the teachings of the church. Ron Woods started the Tacoma congregation. I heard that the Woods eventually went off and fell away.
There was, also, Chuck (Charles) Tenant. He was vocal about the fact that he didn't study, but, yet, was traveling to help churches. Even to a verbal assault about Merie and what was going on on May Week.
Also, John Halby.
I know DC in 1983. Portland was having a lot of problems, like Eugene and Tacoma. Almost all of Tacoma's preachers and teachers were withdrawn from for false teaching and some for murmuring. The main preacher and teacher in Portland were withdrawn from. DC and a preacher named David Bonstien (sp), his mother is still in the church, were sent to Portland for a while and they came up to Tacoma once a week. They established the 1st Friday classes at Portland that involved all three congregations. David fell back into one of his old sins and left the church. The things that DC did to lead to her downfall was her own doing and she hurt a lot of people in more than one congregation. I had a personal run in with her at a Boise meeting about a year before she left. I could tell something was off.
I have, also, read a lot of the articles that were written in the COC in the 50s and 60s. You could see over time what was going on.
Lynn MM, the entire foundation of what Merie started was off. She was withdrawn for what many others would eventually over time be withdrawn for. HC or anyone else who taught such corrupt things you have to take it back to the leader Merie and the others. They should’ve called the police. This cult is not above the law though they obviously think they are. I also heard it said not to spank your children to hard if they have an upcoming doctors appointment. You don’t want bruises to be seen. That was long after HC. That’s on GP, TC and KS watch. It’s the entire mindset that they have with discipline. Spank, spank and spank. Those moms in the cult seem to carry those wooden spoons with pride. The arrogant GP and PP I’d like to hear from there children how they were raised up in the cult.
I'm sure their children are secretly so proud to have parents like them.. And the Hypocrites that they are they probably raised theirs differently behind the scenes.. I know if they didn't, that as Grandparents they wouldn't get near my children… Do the mother's still proudly carry these Wooden Spoons.. LOL.. Lovely just lovely
And if they are teaching them not to bruise before a doctor appointment etc then what they are doing is illegal, as by law you cannot leave a mark on your child. That's why I say they all should have the nice visit from CPS just to explain their ways.
Craig, does your wife know about the child abuse? Connections on/to the internet can really get this kind of stuff going to the public and read etc about the church if a person really wants it to happen. I was in the church not very long but lived with someone that was in the church for many years that had left and came back. I knew so much of the sickness of this church before I even went into it. I was dumb enough for a while to listen to their excuses of why things happened. But my mind was not all there when I was dumb enough to "get wet" as you so call it LOL plus I kept screenshots of PPs Facebook friends
Are they still teaching to have the boys pee without touching themselves?
Correction…… I wonder if boys are still scared etc if they are not actually taught this but just become afraid still. Being in the church itself is what makes people go crazy.
Merie Weiss was aware of my father tying me in the bed. She stood in my bedroom watching him tie me up. She did nothing to stop him. He was never rebuked or withdrawn from either. I can draw the conclusion that she condoned his actions because he suffered no punishment for his actions.
Jude, I read this comment and my jaw just dropped. That was the one thing people from this sect were holding onto- that Merie DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE TYING OF CHILDREN TO THEIR BEDS. Your testimony here verifies that she in fact knew and condoned it!
You know, Merie might be dead now and this particular practice may have stopped, but people all across this cult are still mentally tied to bed posts. They are being held down by GP, PP, LS, TC with rules, threats of disconnection, deceits, brainwashing, etc.
For those of you in Merie's church… How can you read this, knowing how evil Merie was, and still believe in her church? Are you really more afraid of what you'll lose here on Earth than take the risk of leaving and finding a true place of worship?
This is the type of minds in the church No love. I can't imagine letting this stuff happen and staying in the church to try to get to heaven. Can you imagine what it's like to live with that type of mind.. Haha..I'd rather go to a dark place than be involved with this wicked church . The very first time I heatd merie screaming in a talk that was posted on the internet I knew she was a true wack job. Brainwashing screaming I actually laughed . I'm happy without that fear .
Anon 8:08 well said M Long. The only thing about Merie I heard about after I got wet was how great she was. A ton of Merie said. How Merie was unscripturally withdrawn from and some more blah blah blah about her. I’d never of given that place a second of my time if id heard the truth about them. They are very secretive of what they don’t tell and tell there new recruits. We know that GP fears cult members will read this blog. Well it’s easily understood why. So much evil, past and present.
I was never told she was withdrawn from once, much less 3 times!
Jude Brooks thank you for your comments. I’m saddened to hear of all you were subjected too because of the cults teachings and tactics. Very disturbing. Awesome you have been clean and sober since 2008. Congratulations!! I’d be interested in collaborating with you on any information I can provide you with concerning the cult. Writing a book would be wonderful at helping exposing this cult. Hopefully the media will get involved as well. You can text or email anytime. 360-721-2353 or craigcusick52@gmail.com.
Oops correction on my phone number. 1-360-721-2352
Hey Craig. How are you? I would really like to collaborate with you bro. My phone # is 415.724.2815
Email: brokenfeatherartgallery@gmail.com
You can also find me on facebook u der Jude Twofeathers Brooks. Cant wait to talk to you bro.
Hello Jude. Absolutely I’ll be in contact with you.
Did any other kids raised in this church remember the face test? It was brought to my family from DWC but basically if both sides of your face were not identical then you were unclean.
I rememember having a piece of paper held up to each side of my face and later us kids going in the mirror to figure out what they were talking about.
I can verify that DWC did that (comparing each side of a person’s face) in Montana while she lived there.
Hi Jude, I remember you from when I was a kid at Stanton. I just wanted to chime in and verify all the ritualized abuse of children stories. They had a manual and everything! There was a special Sunday school class for the “unclean” children. It was brutal. To my recollection there was a gal in Spring Valley that headed up the abuse. Hazel somebody. Years later I asked how could Merie allow all that to happen to the kids, the answer given was that she didn’t know. I find that hard to believe as it sure wasn’t hidden.
Ironically, when I started running away from home as a teenager, church leaders accused my mom of sexually abusing me. What a load!
Like your dad, my mom simply did what she was told cause she thought it would please Jesus. It got really warped.
Sadly, religion gone awry is not limited to scoc.
I fully believe that the reason most teachers did the crazy things they did was because they were told to. It feels good and safe to be the teacher of a congregation. Good and safe because you do the rebuking, rarely if ever get rebuked, you do the questioning, you don’t get questioned, you know the treasury is there if you need it plus you are in the special club of those who go to May meeting and you get to have the inside scoop on the goings on in your congregation and the other congregations too. You get to usually have your way in business meetings too. It’s a win win win and all you have to do is obey counsel and don’t question anything. You can’t express a word of doubt or decent or you’re doomed so you block it out and forge ahead with blinders until someone above you (one of the 4) tells you it’s time to change your thinking to whatever the new way of thinking might be and you willingly do so.
They were under the spell just like the cult of Mormans and J.W. And Jim Jones and Scientology. Freaky,
Why on earth would the parents agree to this child abuse. As for teachers doing the “crazy things because they were told to” didn’t they have any common sense or a brain that God gave them? It is so hard to understand how people fall into this trap for so many years and finally a few get out. I still have family inside and am trying to expose them on a daily basis.
It was Hazel Capell.
Yes, there is a tape out there where Merie goes over that list of what Hazel was teaching and Merie admitted that if the police ever got a hold of that list they would probably arrest them.
Hazel used to try to keep people away from Merie while she was in the hospital and let everybody think what she was teaching was from Merie herself. It all got exposed and there is a tape out there of Hazel confessing what she did behind Merie's back.
Some of the members (if not all) think the internet is the devil's toy. Again there comes something out of one man's mouth that the Sheep follow along with. But I can guarantee you if anything destroys them it will be the internet for the most, and I'd be willing to put 24/7 in to make it happen
As a child I remember listening to Merie tapes.. over and over, at the house, in the car, etc her voice still grates in my head. The shrill yelling and pounding on the table.
There was one that sticks out to me right now of her teaching about the kids of the church and how they need to be monitored and kept in line. Don't spare the rod etc. I remember as a child thinking that she must hate kids and I remember asking my mom why.
Now from what I hear, her tapes are no longer distributed- interestingly enough since about 10 years ago I asked for resources on the SCOC as I was studying out diff organizations and those were what my mom told me were available.
I feel like my previous comment about teachers doing what they are told to do sounds like an excuse for evil. I don’t believe there is any excuse for the horrible abuse Jude suffered.
@Lynn mm. I can tell you without a doubt that when Merie Weiss came to our house one time she stood right in my room behind my father watching him tie me in bed. After he was done she made sure herself that i was tied in tight. So i think that Merie made Hazel confess.
Hazel's husband was in the Navy and her son grew up to commit murder. It is sad that so much evil can come from one person. When i was in in the 2000's word was received that Hazel wanted to come back and the loving Christians said no, we will not forgive her!
@DoraP….i would be remiss if i failed to mention one of the rules about having bicycles as a kid in the cult….we were only allowed to have "banana" seats as the regular seats might cause to much "stimulation" as it were. Smh….the stupidity. I just cant.
Jude, thanks. I was questioned by her once. I was all of eleven. It was awful.
Anon 6:37 you make a good point about teachers feeling more in control. My mom was not a teacher, but she struggled with being accepted by others all her life. She later found out she had dyslexia and I would bet a paycheck she had other issues as well. I remember being at fellowships and the other moms would talk about ideas for disciplining kids; things like holding books out parallel to the floor, looking at the ceiling. She would take those ideas and apply them exponentially. My poor brother got the brunt of it.
Funny thing is as awful as all the physical abuse was, it was the mental and spiritual that has had the longest affect on me. It was many years before I could pick up a bible and not flinch. Even now I have to brace myself when I hear bible quotes. In a way I feel lucky that i lived in Portland Or in the 90’s as there were a lot of spiritual alternatives available to explore when I left. I investigated everything from Jehovah Witnesses to Goddess spirituality. I cried at the feet of Mary at The Grotto when my first marriage ended. Really folks, it’s all God.
I read a lot of folks talking about going to other churches and finding a spiritual home and to not give up on Jesus. Please remember that there is a big difference in your experience joining as an adult. You got to choose. Those of us who were exposed as children didn’t get that choice. We were exposed to the vilest interpretation of an ancient book without our consent. For many of us, that book was used as blunt instrument, repeatedly, to shame us for being merely human children. As an adult child survivor, I try very hard to respect your journey. I know my mom proclaimed her love of Jesus to her dying day. No really, it was in her advanced directive to just let her go be with her sweet Jesus. She never understood why I refused to go to church with her. It was hard to talk to her about it because she was the one who did the abuse. Please try and understand your kids, support them in their journey of healing. Hug them, cry with them, accept them. Try to understand that an apology is appreciated but it doesn’t take what happened away. The scars are still there. They probably always will be.
@DoraP…I cannot even BEGIN to tell you how many times, AS A VERY YOUNG CHILD, 5-12 years old…that i had to stand naked in the middle of the room, arms outstreched to the side, with a world book encyclopedia in each hand looking at the stupid ceiling. If my arms even began to drop, i would get beat with a belt or a switch unlil i bled. And i do mean BLED. Constantely getting backhanded and flying across the room, smashing into walls. There were times i hurt so bad i couldnt even move. At which point, they would start beating me with various objects as i was trying my best to crawl away. And the sexual abuse. I wont go into detail here on Kevins blog, but i CAN tell you..it would make you violently ill to know the details. It has been a long time since ive tried to talk about these things. I suffer from SEVERE PTSD to this day. Jacks my head all up most of the time. Thats why i try to keep that stuff pushed deep down. And DoraP, my mom and dad are no longer together. Being the jerk he is, he took her to Texas from Oregon and abandoned her. Alton Brooks is not a good person. There is a certain evil in his little clique when he was leading Eugene COC that is the most evil i believe could ever be in a person. I have to stop now. Im getting pretty, well…angry. I can tell you the Portland Oregon COC still holds some of the original members of the Eugene/Springfield COC, and quite possibly could be doi g these vile things to other children. My phone number is 415.724.2815 i would love to talk to anyo e thats willing to investigate these COC's.i will post more here when i calm down.
Jude, I'm so sorry for what you have been through. Is he still in the church as a member? What does GP have to say for himself over all this? I think the church should be exposed. I'm willing to help you all that I can. I was married to somebody that is still in the church
In answer to your question anonymous. Al fell away when i was still in high school. He and my mom were withdrawn from for "murmuring" along with Steve and Carol Carrol. I believe Steve and Carol are in either Portland or Tacoma, still in the COC. As far as GP and what he thinks or has to say…doesnt matter. I promise you, i am going to make it my mission to destroy this cult. We need people to stand up and come forward and expose the evil that has been done. My phone # is 415.724.2815
Email: brokenfeatherartgallery@gmail.com
I would really like to collaborate with tou and start the outline for my book. Hope to talk to you soon!
@Jude Please take the time you need away from this site to get back to equilibrium. One thing I've learned in therapy is to stop remembering when it gets too intense bc for me it takes me to a place where I legit need to stay in bed or hide in a closet- this way of 'coping' started back when I was maybe 7 or 8. Probably around the time I was cognitively aware that it wasn't my actions that got me in trouble. It was something called uncleanness inside of me that showed up in the way I walked, talked, couldn't pay attention in class, and moved too much when I slept.. to name a few.
Reading you recent posts and responding now is causing me anxiety but this stuff has got to get shared. I have something called dissociative disorder where to function, my brain has memory that I can't pull up for the life of me. I'm hoping talking and reading others' experiences will help me remember and heal.
Thank you so much for your bravery Jude, and this idea to write a book.
I totally get your anxiety. I find that pulling these things to the forefront of my mind produces an inordinate amount of anger. I still have panic attacks and ive gotten violently ill as well. This isnt the kind of stuff that anybody should ever have to deal with. There is a positive aspect to this though…by speaking up and putting accountability on these predators could quite possibly prevent anymore children from being abused. Its tough i know but if we continue to support each other it will give us strength. I find that going for a bicycle ride really clears my head. Incidentally, im doing a 600 mile charity ride starting June 1st for the Childrens Cancer Research Foundation. That outta clear my head!! Lol. Anyways, i hope you have a blessed day my friend and i will talk to you soon!
Steve and Carol are in Tacoma. I liked they. They were good to me.
Jude your story about holding heavy books out as punishment and all I bet is true because I know one of the preachers here in SA used to do that to his sons. I'm not saying a the other stuff too but it's just interesting how these ideas get passed along the congregations. Someone comes up with some punishment and everyone else follows suit. For example, I noticed spanking spoons showing up at our building back room after one who had moved down from AK brought hers with her. Suddenly everyone was doing that back there.
What caught my eye here is that your dad wasn't withdrawn from for all those years of abuse, huh. He was withdrawn from for murmuring. Talking about Merie's cult leaders or going against them still trumps pretty much anything else, no matter how evil it was.
And I certainly don't believe the leaders didn't know about the abuse. You said all the kids knew. Kids take this stuff back to their parents. They knew.
I highly suspect someone where I went was abusing their kids. And I'm pretty sure counsel knew. I don't believe she was ever withdrawn from for it. Guess they don't count as the "little ones" the Bible speaks about, as least not to them.
@ M Long…But see, thats the thing. I know that most of the cult leadership were very WELL aware of what was happening. I have had a chance over the years to re-connect with 4 of the kids i grew up with in eugene and though they were abused as well, it absolutely paled in comparison to what was happening with me. Ive also had a chance to re-connect with some of the kids that grew up in portland, tacoma, boise, alameda, spring valley, and Stanton and they were all able to relate to me that yes, the abuse was rampant everywhere in the SCOC, none of it even came close to what i went through. GP AND PP used to babysit me, Hazel C did as well. And heres a trip…Kevins parents babysat me as well! Lol. Dont get me wrong though, the level of abuse i suffered very well could have happened to so many other kids growing up in this mess. As a matter of fact, im certain of it.
I daresay that because of your liberal and permissive attitudes, you have forgotten that when you spare the rod, you spoil the child. You must be mindful that disciplining children is the job of the parents, and they know best to what level and degree. it is not for others to step in and dictate how to carry out such a sacred and important duty!
And to boot telling them how to have sex with the 6 inch rule.. Now that one takes the cake.. Hahahhaaaa
Why a church should be involved with sex at all between a husband and a wife amazes me. Are you suppose to take a ruler to bed with you? My what a turn on but then again because emotions are suppressed I doubt if they ever get turned on . Why the big families? MYbe the ruler works? Crazy. I know some people in this church and they put on a Good front I must say. Could have fooled me. If only they would read this blog.
I know of two for sure that are in the church full-time that are reading this blog.. I talk to them personally and they have said the only reason they're in the church is to play the game to keep their family
Me too. I am going because of family. I’ve been in the church a long time and have not believed it for a long time. Sad but true.
Yep, I think old GP himself would be quite amazed how many are reading this that are still in the church for family reasons only. I laugh how someone preaching tells me they know everything that goes on in the church. I really really have to laugh at that. The Smart Ones know how to play the game
Smart ones meaning to me, those that have grown up in this church lol.. we never had the blind time of not knowing stuff and only attending non-members class. Getting fed stuff bit by bit until we're 'ready'. We know the nitty gritty from the beginning, and sometimes much more then we even want to know smh.
I am wondering why you stay if you don't believe in it? I'm not trying to bash or anything but I am just kind of surprised people would stay with all their rules and be unhappy? Would you mind being more specific, other than just saying for family? I was disconnected too but slowly some are coming around and talking to me. Time heals so much. Even if they hadn't, I would never go back. I just can't knowingly give up my freedoms for anyone, especially if they go against my conscience. Life goes by too quickly and I don't want to spend any of it not aiming to both enjoy it and be able to serve God without oppression.
Surely there are more reasons than family? Maybe you have been truly convinced that this is the only place you can find God, so you're afraid to go elsewhere?
The 2 that I talk to regularly I can not explain more than family reasons as that would give them away. Myself I don't agree and I have told them this, but this is what they choose to do. Believe me when I tell you the head honchos are reading this blog. They need to stay on top of everything that is being said about them
I believe the more the church fills with second generation members and there are now third generation members the more people will stay in and go through the motions. The pull is strong, let me tell you. Who wants to be the evil fallen away one of a large group of family who see each other on almost a daily basis. Plus you know they constantly talk about anything fallen away members do or don’t do.
I would not play games when it comes to God, church and family. I would have an ulcer and other health problems if I continued to attend and then read this blog and found out the truth about “the one true church”. When you think about it this is not healthy. Maybe some do it because they are not mentally healthy in the first place as so any members have health issues , low education and disabilities. I learned a long time ago if I wanted to get well I had to walk over the bridge and leave some behind friends and family or if I want to get healthy myself. The church reminds me of a family with incest and keeping it a secret. Remember we are only as sick as our secrets. Get out and get healthy. By you getting out maybe some of your family will follow.
Children in the attic is what it reminds me of and secrets in the cellar. Pure sick/creepy . I'm sickened to my stomach for real that I was ever a part of this church and lived with someone who is in it. Thank all goodness my boys got to see this blog before they got sucked in!
Jude, I assume Merie Weiss did not ask your forgiveness for being part of and witnessing you being tied up? If not, then…
Anon thanks for the explanations. I am with you that I would be sick if I read this blog and still stayed in. This blog was the catalyst for me, and though I read it for about 2 weeks before I left, I was sick to my stomach during that time! I was sick to my stomach after I left too when JG taught against speaking to me that next Sunday morning and when so many I cared about did just that. My stomach hurt, my heart hurt. But the most important thing was that my conscience was clear. I wanted no part in something that could do this to people, something that started so ROTTEN. I wouldn't be able to stand myself. I wouldn't be able to say I've learned anything in this life if I stayed at a place that was a part of abuse and ugliness that supposedly was of Christ. No, that rotten fruit had manifested itself years before and along the way, and I ignored it hoping that nagging feeling would go away. It went away after I left!
In my opinion when you are in a small church where so many are related and no new people attend or if they do they do not stay there can be a problem. As you say like a family with incest. When you hear the same dull sermons over and over and with the same small group of people with no new ideas or no knowledge of current events no wonder they stay. They are afraid to branch out and fly. And for heaven sakes no further education as they may learn something and meet new people. Get out people! Fly! Expand your wings! Learn new things and experiences. Find a healthy church. You may have to visit several. Listen to Christian music and read Christian books. Reconnect with your families and friends. Find joy again!
DoraP, wow so sorry for all that you had to go through being amongst and subject to the ways of Merie’s cult. What was taught in Portland by one, is if you make a mistake disciplining your child, do not ask there forgiveness for it. I never agreed with that comment which I thought was stupid and made no sense. Not sure if it was a Portland teaching, cult wide or just her opinion. Never the less as they always said the children were the future of that church. Yet you couldn’t give them the respect to ask there forgiveness if you spanked them by making mistake. Stupid.
Craig, did she give a reason not to ask forgiveness?
And that mind comes from something loose inside. Why does a person like that even think they are right? There are minds that will never be fully intact and people can't see that? And then they tell others what to do. Lol some of the people in the church I saw were highly disturbed and part of it I'm sure was the way they were brought up and what was in bedded into their minds. I lived with someone in the church like that. I'd like to see someone tell me how to parent lol
They should all have a visit from CPS so they can explain their so called WAYS
In Tacoma they believed that you didn't educate you children to know and distinguish between right and wrong, but you make them do what you told them. I raised mine with discernment and they are all adults and still have it.
As a former and adult (as my parents are still members) child of this church, I would really like a space on this site to share parts of my past I'm still trying to make sense of. I've been in therapy for a couple years now but there's still that missing piece of talking with someone that can identify with where I'm coming from.
Maybe this question is for the creator of the site- Kevin. I'm now a parent and I'm afraid I will pass on things that have become a part of me, no matter how hard I try to get rid of them. Not a place to complain, but to share and maybe verify memories?
Each person can create a space for their own story like some have done on here. I'm not sure if Kevin has to create that link for you or not though?
I understand your self doubts and concern against abuse as I have had them myself. The SCOC did not teach principles or precepts of behavior from a fixed point of reference such as the ten commandments which were written in stone and thus would never change, but every behavior was right and acceptable or wrong and unacceptable based upon the whims and moods of leadership. In the love bombing phase everything was right and acceptable but in the control and enslavement phase every behavior was wrong and unacceptable. As each leader grew in power so did their self empowering judgement of others; some, those whom served there purposes, were acceptable, and the rest who did not serve them were unacceptable, irregardless of what the bible teaches. The SCOC leadership used the Bible but only to the extent that it empowered them and when the bible reproved or limited their power over others then the bait and switch to "Merie said" was done, or Alexander Campbell said, or Barton W Stone said, or my favorite "they said" and the correcting or condemning parts of the Bible were ignored. The confusing part is that the SCOC uses the Bible and some of what they teach is correct, that is Jesus is the son of God, sin is a bad thing, but the do not lead by example but by fiat as did the pharissees before them, and as god's on earth they pick and choose which scriptures to teach and follow and which to ignore. The SCOC walks a slippery slope where leadership is always true and right and use many different laws to achieve this, which law are they using today, the Bible or Merie said or they said, depends on which one empowers them. What empowers you is wrong even if it is the Bible because the whole goal is not to serve God but rather to empower leadership over the followers.
@Lynn mm. I can ABSOLUTELY verify what you said about Chuck Tenant. I Remember ahortly after Lynda Tenant got to our house in Eugene from Montana, Chuck ended up at our house as well for a short visit. I remember, very clearly, him stating quite loudly in my father Al's face saying he didnt NEED to study because God gave him divine wisdom. Smh. Im not sure why Lynda was ever sent to Oregon from Montana but i know there were spies throughout the entire COC.
Just isn't right. He had no fear of God,
It should be noted that Chuch Tenant was very large physically and used his large size to intimidate others.
In learning wisdom you learn that intelligence is the ability to make distinctions. The greater the intelligence the finer the distinctions that can be made. Learning to distinguish between good and evil is the first distinction a Christian makes. Marriage is honorable but adultery, fornication, and whoremongering are dishonorable but a relationship exists in all categories. Leadership in any organization can be honorable or dishonorable depending upon the behaviors. Once distinctions are made then a person has to be taught to care about the differences such as good people care about others, and evil people care only about themselves and hurt others, therefore a person should fellowship with good people and reject the evil people. In controlling groups the only virtue that is taught and reinforced is loyalty to leadership, and no teaching on how to make distinguishments is allowed, the followers are in a controlled environment. Without wisdom, that is the ability to make distinguishments between good and evil and the caring about which side you are on a person is blind a easy prey to every predator that comes along. The book of proverbs gives many of the behaviors of both the righteous and the wicked, the wise and the fool's, so a person can easily identify each and make distinctions, and differences and choose accordingly.
How does one make the distinction between a good spiritual leader like Jesus Christ and an evil spiritual leader like the pharissees? One way is to take I Corinthians 13:4-8 The characteristics of love and apply them to the leaders behavior. Did Christ suffer long with his followers? Did the Pharisees suffer long with their followers? Was Christ kind to his followers? Were the Pharisees kind to their fellow Jews? Did Christ envy others? Did the Pharisees envy Christ? Was Christ puffed up? Were the Pharisees puffed up? With each and every characteristic of love you can see it in Christ and you can see it lacking in the Pharisees. Take time today and compare your spiritual leaders to the characteristics of love mentioned in I Corinthians 13:4-8 and if they are lacking in love then it is time to choose stronger spiritual leaders; specifically those who are loving like Christ is.
Anon 7:58 I wanted to make sure I quoted the one concerning not asking forgiveness to your children if for example you discipline them by mistake. I asked some others if they remember. One did remember it being said. Asked my wife too. Lol. No one could remember the reason for sure why it was said. I don’t want to misquote the cult follower that said it but it was along the lines of showing your child weakness. If anyone remembers more please add to my comment.
Can anyone verify the year the arrogant GP became a haha evangelist? Does anyone know if he and PP were involved in the anti-masturbation crusade of tying children to bed posts and other disgusting methods? Do these abusers understand they did these children more harm? Have they asked forgiveness for the child abuse? If they knew this was taking place and did nothing about it they are GUILTY.
I Timothy 4:1-4 Paul warns us about doctrines of devils specifying the forbidding to marry and the commanding to abstain from meats. Forbidding to marry has many applications such as the Catholics who forbid their clergy, the priests and nuns, to marry, David Koresh with his branch dividians said no one could be married but him and took every other man's wife as his own; another form of forbidding his members to be married. It does not matter if it is one person or a group within an organization or all members it is still forbidding to marry and when you see a church breaking up marriages they are forbidding to marry a doctrine of devil's. A spiritual application of forbidding to marry is seen with the forbidding persons to worship God which is the spiritual union between man and his God, and is mandated by communist doctrine, and the SCOC false doctrine of mark and avoid. Mark and avoid as currently practiced forbids the worship of those deemed marked and avoid and again it is a doctrine of devils. Commanding to abstain from meats also has many applications such as the Catholics being forbidden to eat meat during lent or the Jewish and Muslim forbidding to eat pork, or the Hindu forbidding to eat beef. It does not matter if it is for a specific period of time or a specific meat not to be eaten it is all forbidding to eat meat and as such is the doctrine of devils. A spiritual application of forbidding to eat meats is with the forbidding to study God's word which is our spiritual meat. The Catholics tried for a time period, the dark ages, to stop the study of God's word by locking up all the bibles, and it is clearly seen by its effects namely the lack of justice during the Spanish inquisition, that it is a doctrine of devil's. Christ told his disciples one time when they told him to eat some meat that he had meat that they did not know of, he was speaking about his spiritual meat. Did Christ imply that humans like himself did not need to eat carnal meat? No, he was revealing that a man has to eat carnal meat to be carnaly strong and man has to eat spiritual meat to be spiritually strong. When a church forbids the study if God's word itself and substitutes its own books like the book of Mormon, or Catholic catechism, or cassette tapes, it is in essence forbidding to eat the spiritual meat which is the word of God, and is a doctrine of devils. Are you in a church of Christ or a church of Satan? Which doctrines are they practicing both carnal and spiritually will tell you; is it the doctrine of Christ or the doctrine of devils?
A good example of forbidding to marry is not allowing singles or particularly single moms to meet others from the opposite sex if they are not in Merie's church. There are very very limited men available particularly for single moms and the sect demanding that they can only talk to someone in their group is tantamount to forbidding to marry. But then one goes on to fornication and they are quick to withdraw when they are the ones who set up that situation. Better to marry than to burn is yet another scripture they ignore in many circumstances.
M Long great points. Also in Portland there were available men but according to the hypocrite preacher MM they were never spiritually ready to be married. They were lucky to meet his criteria to court. I’d rather call it date. Funny though his brother who had been fallen away for years cane back to the cult in a dating situation. His gf was baptized poor girl and were married within about a year or so. I guess they were spiritually compatible and ready for marriage Lol in MM eyes. There were others who left the cult because they forbidden to court by MM because of there spiritual condition.
I always wondered about all the young men over the years who seemed to stay single. And what right does anyone have to say who one should date unless you are underage and it is your parents. I would love to be a mouse in the corner at one of these so called services and ask some questions afterwards.
Craig… Unreal! I have no liking for that guy. Not even from day 1 lol..
And Oh my heck LOL LOL just leave the church for a while and find some outside dude/gal to marry and you both can go back in the church.. Problem solved LOL
Marriage as a man in the SCOC is not any better for men than for the women. I was single when I got baptized and there were several women in the congregation who were divorced with children but not free to marry. These single moms who were not free to marry gave me a lot of attention, cooking me food, listening to me etc., for the first three and half years I was a member until I got married. A strange thing happened after I got married these single moms who were not free to marry and were so kind and attentive turned into the wicked witches of my city. Even though they were not free to marry they were deeply offended that I had not chosen them to marry, it became a hostile environment to say the least. One woman whom I had received a lot of attention from who was divorced and asked me to do activities with her young sons (which I did) became the worst. After I was married my wife needed a vehicle so I asked her to ask this single mom who lived two streets down and the first time she lent my wife her car but the second time she said rather angrily that it was not her place to make up for her husbands lack of love. I was shocked that this woman turned so hostile so quickly. In the third week of my marriage my wife started criticizing me and it never stopped until it was nonstop criticism and to deal with the hostilities of the wife and fellow church members, I avoided them by working more. Every thing I did or said or did not do or did not say was fodder for more criticism. After seven years of marriage it came to an end with my withdrawal and a restraining order and even though I was homeless and withdrawn from I was happy to be away from the non stop criticisms of the wife, the other women in the church, the other men in the church, and especially the discord sowing preacher. Withdrawal is not suppose to be a vacation but it was for me, a vacation from the nonstop complaining and criticism. After two years I came back from withdrawal and my wife had committed adultery during our separation and so I was free to marry and the single mom who was the worst started paying me a lot of attention really quickly and she let me know she was free to marry after all. Going through an adultery is like losing a loved one there is a period of grief and after six years, eleven months, and one week of non stop criticism and being painted as Satan incarnate I was really looking forward to being single the rest of my life. There is a poem that reads how a man asked a girl to marry him and the girl said no and now that man can watch football, drink a beer, ride a motorcycle, and fart anytime he wants, he is the happiest man alive. The ex wife has always been hostile until December when the child support ended after eighteen years, and now that she is broke she is the nicest person in the world, I love poverty and poor people because they are so nice and friendly and thankful for anything you do, and Jesus Christ being poor has all of my love and admiration. It is said that a woman is either a looker or a cooker but my wife was both. She got discontented one day with cooking and it was heat and serve after that. After eating dog food for several years in the military, real cooking tastes like nothing else. There was a man in Spring Valley who was of east Indian decent and worked at phase metrics and he got married to a lovely woman and it was not long that he started criticizing her how she would cook anything he asked but it was with an attitude, and after eating dog food for the last three years I wanted to punch him right in the kisser, you have a woman who not only can cook but is willing to cook and you are criticizing her over some perceived attitude? Shut up or send her my way please a woman can have all the attitude she wants as long as she is a good and willing cook in my book. Cults are defined as very punitive environments with harsh and constant criticism which epitomizes the SCOC both the preaching, teaching, and the marriages.
That's pretty much what a lot of us do. I left but for different reasons and then found my husband while I was out cuz I wasn't about to go back in single or I'd have stayed that way forever.
I found a GREAT man, provider, father, etc. He's not perfect but I guarantee you I can find less perfect men in Merie's church. And I wasn't about to sit there and compete for a single man as a mom with all the available single girls. Pffft.
Reading through these posts re: the single men is giving me the heeby jeebies. I remember from the age 13? 14+ men giving me the eye so that they could keep me in mind for when I became of age so to speak. I had some very uncomfortable times.. think Hollywood #metoo movement type where men were so desperate for attention and hope for marriage that they looked at innocent teenage girls. Innocent bc I was super sheltered and didn't know up from down really. But it still gives me chills.
Then to have other adult members say things to the effect of "I hear so and so has his eye on you" ..barf
Hmm I wonder how fast MM Jr will be approved to marry now.. will he have to wait as long as the other single men have or will he get the expedited version like his uncle? ��
Anon 7:20. He’ll get special privileges. Including marriage. Still on FB. Oh that’s right he owns a business so it’s okay just like daddy. Even though he asks his worldly haha buddies if they are going quading for the weekend. Just a bit outside of doing business on FB. Oh well he’s a good kid. His momma taught him well. Hoping he catches wind of this blog. He shook my hand at the grocery store back in February when I bumped into him. And initiated the handshake. Real excited to see me. Maybe he can teach the other cult members that there withdrawal means are stupid.
Just plain weird about the singles and courting rules.
Anon 5:5. Did I read this right you went back after two years? Why on Earth Would You? When you talk about adultery I imagine losing a spouse to another person is like losing a spouse to a cult. At first you are in denial and isolation, anger or bargaining, or depressed and then finally acceptance and then you move on….or even repeat some of the stages until God heals your heart again
Yes two years in withdraw but only made it about eight month after coming back from withdraw. Every other member who came back from withdraw got a welcome back fellowship I got nothing. The teaching preacher was polite to me for about a week then started avoiding me not taking any phone calls from me for a full six months. The is little to no difference between withdrawal and full fellowship after having gone through a withdrawal under the teaching preacher from Albuquerque.I always wondered why the teaching preacher from Albuquerque choose to fall away rather than go through a withdrawal for the mess he created in Albuquerque and I found out that withdrawal is like having the mark of Cain in the SCOC. I am much happier today without the evil influence of men like the preacher from Albuquerque. I study everyday and try to diligently apply the word of God to my life, and God works with me and not against me as I was taught over and over in the SCOC. I receive deeper understandings now than at any point in my time in the SCOC, and I am not ashamed to praise God because I know how good he is. I learned that the people to fear the most are the leadership in the SCOC and their enforcers. The rulers word is law irregardless of how hurtful or damaging it is to individual members lives. God is very different that what the SCOC portrays him as, he is good, kind, loving, all things good not all things evil.
Anon 826, I too went back after 2 years of leaving/withdrawal (for continuing a relationship with my then first husband, a marriage deemed unscriptural.) Why did I go back to Merie's church? That is a good question. I think there are 2 main reasons. First, because at the time I sincerely felt this was Christ's church, and so I never even visited elsewhere, and when I wanted to come back to God that's where I felt I would find Him. Second, because I went back into sin and pretty much proved to myself and others that when you leave there, you're worse, so I felt like what they taught in that was true.
Granted, now I see those were just choices based on the mindset I had been taught there. This time around I purposely aimed to find a good church and continue in my Christianity. It's been a world of difference!
I would like to encourage others who have left there to not aim to "prove them right" because you think that you're going to hell anyway. Just because you leave Merie's church doesn't mean you left Christ's church! There are Christians all over the world. Throw out what Merie blatantly made up- that only Her church is Christ's. It's not true. How can I say that? Because there is absolutely NO WAY TO PROVE THAT. There is no way they could know. Only God adds to HIS church. And only He knows who is in it.
And for those of you teaching this lie, be careful! You can't claim to know what God knows…
It amazes me how the so called top dogs get to be such Hypocrites and find excuses to do what they re doing.. Facebook would be one example….Treating adults like children….I know two members that have gone so far as to get Facebook under different names and that is really sad.. and the top dogs never really have to struggle and then dictate to others. And others let them is the part that amazes me more.. Ugh
Anon 6:46
I must agree.. "barf"… those are men I would in no way want.. I can't even imagine haha
Very limited selection field!! I only really liked maybe five single women when I was in Stanton.
Both turned out to have feminist tendencies, and I thank my lucky stars I didn't marry them, because I'm pretty sure I'd be hunkered down in the corner of a housetop somewhere if I had.
I know of few Transformed wives in Stanton, and plenty of wives who aren't transformed at all.
https://thetransformedwife.com/
I am from the Traditional Generation or some like to call it the Silent Generation. I was born in 1940 and my Mother in 1908. My mother was a “housewife” as they called them in those days who occasionally got a part time job to help out in the summer at the local cannery. She loved it and liked having a little extra $$ for the family. My dad worked 6 days a week. I had a job almost all of my 47 years of marriage but was still hanging onto most Traditional Values. I missed out on a lot with my sons by working but there is nothing I can do about it now except to be the best wife,mother and grandmother and great grandmother I can be. I am grateful I did not ever get involved in this church but my son and family did. While I can see there were some positives from it I see more negatives the same way I see where there are some positives for the wives to at least get some part time job or further their education and not stay at home involved in this cult 6 days a week with the same small group of people and their dysfunctional leaders. Live life….find a church that is healthy and you will see your children grow when you grow. I understand many of the children who are 18 leave…why is that? My point is after rambling sorry as I really have so much to say is….you younger people may not believe this but life is really short. Our sons father died at 69 and I remarried a Christian man 7 years ago after being a widow almost 6 years. God taught me how to live again after all the sadness and how to love again. It can be the same for you no matter what generation you are from and you can begin by leaving Meries wicked church. Many of the ladies I have met over the years from this cult are old before their time and in many ways niave about life. Thanks for sharing g your story today MLong. It helped me understand. Thanks for the blog tip MC
Anon 12:10. I was attending a church of Satan when I was attending Merie’s cult.
Trying to wrap this around my head. Just with the evil of the child abuse that was done within Merie’s cult. The horrible example of tying your child to bed posts to prevent masturbation. That alone and Merie herself the founder of the cult had knowledge and witnessed this being done and even gave instructions on what to do. Would God really be amongst them. Christ really commune with them. Was the Holy Spirit guiding them to do such evil. Of course not. If they ever which they didn’t but if they had the candlestick wouldn’t it of been quenched when this evil alone took place?
They will justify anything because they can't live with the fact that they are wrong
And the people that do this and even allow it and justify it, they think they know what love is but they have no idea.
And Craig, The tying up did happen because I confronted a member about it and their answer was "well haven't you ever done anything wrong". I almost fell on the ground. I told them that that isn't even considered doing something wrong it is sick and sadistic
Anon 9:53 I agree with you’re reply not only is it sick and sadistic it’s torture. This was being done to children. Just incredible that those including Merie who practiced or knew about the tying children to bed posts at night to prevent masturbation was okay to do. Did they think God approved. Just really proves how off Merie and her cult was and continues to be off. Merie was a sick minded person to think and allow that practice to take place in her cult. That sick mindset is still withen her cult. Maybe not that practice but just the simple fact that there leader GP is a known home wrecker, family destyroyer and marriage ruiner is enough said. Let’s continue to confront members and let it be known to the teens and young adults who are not yet members of the cult of the sick history of the cult. As well as the presant day practices that are simply put oppression.
Looking at some notes I had taken over the last few months of attending Merie’s cults functions. An older member who knew Merie shared that the Church of Christ’s motto referring to Merie’s cult of course that there motto is to speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent. That statement left me smh. Yes such as tie your children to bedposts to prevent masturbation. Bible speaks of torturing your children huh? Well this is the same member who said the first person they wanted to see in heaven was Merie. Lol
Another cult is being exposed on TV news and in People Magazine for your information. You can also read about it online under Tony Alamo. Enjoy your weekend everyone!
There are over 4000 known cults operating in the USA today and what is important is not that there is another cult being exposed but to understand cult methods. All cults use deceptive recruiting tactics, if you knew up front that you were going to be used as a mule would you really accept the invitation to join their brotherhood, family, group? The cult I was a part of taught financial irresponsibility to self and family and rather to serve the leader first and somehow God would provide, but what really happened was that everything I had was taken away by "needy" (really lazy) male members and I ended up with nothing. After that I clearly understood the constant need for new members so the "needy" men could be sustained in their self employment businesses. The older members of a cult feed off of the newer members of the group. This is true in political cults, educational cults, outlaw motorcycle clubs, and bible based cults.
Alright who is starting a new blog about Merie's cult? Nothing there yet but the site is set up. The name is great! Especially since she is the founder of this cult!
http://merieweisschurchofchrist.blogspot.com/?m=1
Anon 12:14 awesome more exposure!!
Exposing secrets of Merie’s cult on one blog will be interesting. Real easy to find just google Merie Weiss and you’ll find it. Hopefully up and running soon.
Craig, are you doing this blog? Should put other names to come up in google too.. Lol
Anon 9:27 It’s not my creation but I’ll certainly contribute to exposing secrets about Merie’s cult. Great idea more names would be good.
I agree that names of preachers n teachers and cities should be posted so that people they meet at personal work can see what they're REALLY about. Also so the others already in can just do a search and find them. That's the one rule I wish Kevin didn't have because the younger generations are not learning about Merie Weiss, just her teachings. They probably don't even know how to spell her name. But they'll know Gary Preman, Tom Cornforth, Dominic Sorino, etc.
Someone needs to compile a list and post it online for easier searches. It's fair to name them and say what they are doing is not right. We have to help others avoid this evil place.
He registers the church as a non profit for taxes I think also. I saw that online under GP address. But correct me if I'm wrong..
I also believe in the preaching names being put out there on another site. I see no reason not to. They shouldn't have anything to fear about it and should be proud of the mess they created. I remember MM in Portland told me he didn't make a point to tell people that he preached. I laughed to myself. It's a good thing if people know all of this in a Google search!
Be careful that by doing this you cannot be charged with slander or some other legal charge. I am not sure how it all works but would not like to see any of you in legal trouble for telling the truth.
Can't charge someone with slander for posting their names and titles /roles in the cult. They'd have to prove that what you're saying is not true so there's no issue there.
Besides, any legal suit would immediately call more attention to their cult. They certainly wouldn't want that kind of attention!
Ok ….sounds good!
Slander is verbal, libel is written. Printing names and persecuting them can also attract sympathy and more followers, persecution is what caused Paul to flee into the next city and spread his message to more and more people. Calling attention to the abusive behaviors is wiser as it is more difficult to deny, calling attention to the abuser allows them the opportunity to defend themselves and recruit more members to themselves, the bully/victim routine works well for the evil.
An interesting study is apathy. Apathy which is a lack of emotional response or interest, or flat response, or no response can be seen in the description of the Jews of Christ's day seeing they did not see, hearing they did not percieve. The Jews were under occupation by the Romans and they were being oppressed which might have been the cause of their symptoms of depression namely apathy; the Christ had finally come and few seem to care. The Apostles who were under the same oppression were not depressed and apathetic as seen by their immediate response to the call of Christ to follow me. Learning to endure oppression without giving into self pity and apathy would have made these men called to be Apostles true superstars among their fellow Jews. The suffering they were to endure as they spread the gospel through out a hostile world would not discourage, nor depress them. Learning to cope under oppression is a prized skill few have.
Couple that with indifference. You can a lot of the in the church. The church breaks the scriptures of Matt 25 all the time and their indifference is what is causing them to be indifferent to seeing it.
TC admitted that he was indifferent towards Christians and nobody even batted an eye about it. He said that it isn't within him to be empathetic towards others nor consider them.
The whole purpose of the church is that we be there for each other.
These scriptures a just right out their door. If you look to these verses, as we are supposed to, in the church, you are being selfish.
2 Corinthians 1:4-6
4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
We were told, "ask not what the church can do for you, but what you can do for the church".
We were constantly dissuaded to not look to the church for any kind of support, yet they always wanted us to counsel with them.
It got to the point that we had to look outside of the church if we needed any physical help and it got way to dangerous to tell anybody in the church about anything. This kills off our support system that Jesus meant for the church to be.
TC said in a talk that their congregation set up a non mandatory class for those who had missed classes to catch up and for those who are having trouble understanding the classes/are slow to pick up what is going on. This was a step in the right direction, but the apathy and indifference was still to strong. You can lead a member to the right decisions, but you can't get a lot of them to react.
Classes and talks were supposed to be the motivators in pushing members to the right direction on subjects like this, but I saw so many times it not go further than the room is was talked about in. You can talk about these things until you are blue in the face and it seem like you are wasting your time.
In a old talk, TC talked about the dead eyes of the indifferent teenagers. He said you could just see it in their eyes that there was nothing there. Adults can be the same way. On a Sunday it was taught that our older ones, who have been in the church for a long time, are great for picking their minds and learning from them. I had just got back into the church and since it was a Sunday fellowship I asked one of them about what was said and their answer was a resounding, "no". One of the brethren said that when ever he saw that I was at a fellowship he knew to bring in his bible as I was always talking about the scriptures and asking questions. I wanted to learn, but was up against the wall, a lot of times, with indifference.
1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God;
How many of us have been so filled with the good things that we have studied and learned only to have people be indifferent about the conversation? If I remember right, PC would, in fellowships, start asking people questions to get the minds of the members to be more on God as they would spend a lot of the fellowship time talking about their jobs, cars, etc.
These are huge signs of the lack of knowledge that is rampant in the churches and is a sign that with a lack of knowledge, from lack of study, that members don't know how to act and treat other members. There's nothing to share and/or offer others because that knowledge and wisdom is not forefront in their minds. Knowing the words of God are motivators. Indifference is what is causing a lot of apathy.
Thank you Lynn. As I study people under oppression such as those in the Soviet union I see similar behaviors, that is most under oppression become indifferent and apathetic about most things in life but a few learn to cope with oppression and prosper. Keeping the authority figure happy is the center of most of the oppressed lives, few think about keeping God happy. I too was shunned when I tried to discuss scriptures at fellowship and had to endure one man who talked about motoroil nonstop at the fellowships he attended, it made me cringe to hear that I would attend the same fellowship. Indifferent leadership makes indifferent followers, God deserves better. The depth of understanding on even the simplist scriptures was lacking and most brethern simply went along with whatever leadership said, most intellectual discussions were discouraged in favor of a fan club attitude toward the leader. We have such a great leader make him the center of attention when he is present lest he get angry, and he got angry often. The hope of fellowship with godly people quickly faded. As I study today I understand more than ever for example in Proverbs in talks about the evil eye which is not a literal eye but a persons outlook on others, the evil eye sees only bad in others. As there is an evil eye so too is the a godly eye like David in the psalms saw God in everything. There is an unclean eye, that is a person who finds something unclean in everything. The light of the body is the eye, a persons outward perspective on life tells you what kind of person they are on the inside.
Was there ever any laughing, relaxing and enjoying one another’s company over having a meal together and the children playing or just more of the boring drab conversations led by the preacher or teacher? Our fellowships are uplifting conversations some things referring to God but lots of laughter,good food and relaxing. Something to look forward to rather than dread.
Of course there was laughing, relaxing, and enjoying each others' company. We spent a majority of time together so they become your family. I understand some having negative memories but to paint a picture of only having dry, boring fellowships and get togethers is a bit extreme, in my opinion anyway. Fellowships and meetings are the best! And yes, many people in the church have been (or are currently) oppressive but I'll be daring to say that a majority are the nicest, most honest you will find. Hands down.
This post may not be the popular view on here, but truth is truth- and that is mine.
Each congregation has its own unique personality, usually molded after its founding leader. The congregation I was in has had a long history of oppression since it planting in 1976. Other congregations have histories of continous oppression, learning to cope and prosper under oppression is a much needed skill. In totalitarian groups secrecy is a form of protection from abuse, the less the abusers know the less harm they can do. Some congregation none of the men will counsel with the teaching preacher and the leaders wonder why, not realizing they do more harm than good with their self glorifying advice. One meeting I attended had only one talk so the teaching preacher could have all the attention of the spiritual leader in attendence, and discuss the spiritual problems and to recieve orders on who to purge out. Edification was little to none at meetings but rather a time for busybodies to catch up on the sex life gossip of members in other congregations. The principals and precepts of God were often left dead in the streets, no one expounded on the deeper things of God. In Proverbs 10:20 God teaches us that wisdom is to make value judgements about people based upon their heart, the heart of the wicked being of little worth. The prattling fools, the child abusers, the oppressive leaders in a few congregations slander the rest of the body with their evil behaviors.
Sex life gossip refers to the discussions that revolve around uncleanness.
The problem is that it still exists and nobody is doing anything about it. In the seriousness of what Christianity is you can't have this just because in some areas it doesn't exist. Remember the seven churches in Revelation. Yes, they had things they were doing right, but were told they need to fix that which isn't. There was no scale allowed to where you can have negative things as long as positive is present.
You are right, there have been times that the conversations have been good and people happy, but the other times do exist.
That may be your truth, but it doesn't take away from other people's truth.
At anon jun 12 2:47pm. The only laughing i remember is when the adults were bullying me as a kid. I remember one teacher in particular who had played semi-pro or college baseball before he got baptized was throwing 75-80mph pitches with a baseball, not a softball…at me and laughing because i was scared of getting hit with the ball. I think that was arou d 6th grade for me.
Going back to slander, I’m being slandered every day this cult continues to call me a member. Continue to expose the bullies and abusers. These people will not get sympathy or more followers by exposing them and getting there names out there.
With fellowships and meetings I agree with anon 4:33 there were certainly good times and laughter. Many are great people and I made a lot of friends. The problem is there mindset is molded after Merie Weiss and her cronies now being GP, PP, TC and KS plus many others in leadership roles. And as Jude stated all is not good at fellowships. Children sit through boring worships and classes. Some congregations may not let them do much at fellowships. Oppressive.
Anon 4:33 kind words from you concerning followers of the cult. Outwardly they can look just fine but these people are deceived in what they are following. Honest they want to appear but really they are not being true to themselves. Making the comments at doors as they attempt to get people to attend is not being honest. They really pull it all stops to get visitors to come. And when they teach the one and only true church that is far from an honest claim.
Its absolutely true that each church's actions were molded around the way the leader was. Example: my father Al led the Eugene congregation. So, since he made it very clear to me that i have no say because, in his OWN words, "this (household) is a dictatorship." He ran the church the same way. Hellfire and brimstone, screaming and yelling. Soooo, yeah…no good memories really from the church. Now, when i wasnt around the church or my father, yes, i was happy.
Similar to any communist country a few enjoy all the privlidges that life can offer, that is the communist party members and saw no evil in communism because they did not suffer like slaves as did most of the population. A few in the Merie group too live like kings and queens and enjoy all the privlidges of elite status while the rest suffer in silence, and see no evil in oppression as they were the oppressors. I choose to live in poverty and to know the suffering of the oppressed and have helped them in times past to cope with cruel fathers and merciless mothers, both carnal and spiritual.
I don’t understand why these friends shun one another when the person leaves the church similar to the Amish and thus splits families apart. Is this really biblical or just another twisted man made rule of the evil church?
I would like to know about this also from some of you Seems ridiculous to me as I thought we are to love one another as God loves us. My teachings are so different than the oppression you all have been under thank goodness!
Many in the SCOC and other churches like it truly believe that it's the best way to get people to change. Some either grew up in the church thinking it's normal or are taught not to question it and are too scared to speak up.
This is why websites like this, as well as others that identify and expose cult behaviors are important. Some of things taught in the SCOC are nearly identical to other abusive religions. There are even places that explain in detail why these things are wrong and have whole lists of cult churches to avoid that teach false doctrines. (this one might need to be added)
Seriously, all anyone needs to do is type spiritual abuse into their web browser and see there are many people who go through the exact same injustices because of false and man-made teachings. It's not a coincidence that the fruits of the SCOC are the same as these other cults.
Outside information and research is important, especially when it's concerning your soul. Here is one small website that gives some decent scriptural understanding on spiritual abuse/bondage.
http://www.biblelife.org/bondage.htm
▶ Good one!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NvDOGrMdgs
There is no slander in naming the leaders/church etc into Google…not at all..it's all truth. I could plaster this all over Facebook and YouTube and nothing can happen. And I wouldn't care even if it did.
Anon 8:47
So true on some living all privileges of life. It's almost funny.. And they will also say they understand what it's like to live the opposite lol.. Ya, sure they do lol
One of the main differences between the SCOC and other religions is that the SCOC requires works of their members and most other religions dont but have two classes of people the clergy and the lay people. The clergy is required to attend formal education called seminary or something similar the SCOC has no formal requirements but expects each member to become a preacher or for the women a teacher, no one in the SCOC is allowed to remain as a lay person everyone is expected to take on responsibility at some point. With no formal training members are expected to become qualified spiritual leaders through the guidance of the holy spirit. In reality what happens is new members are overloaded with responsibilities and have to seek constant guidance from regional and national leaders the result is many puppets and one master over the entire group. If a person is found not in obedience then Karl Marx's doctrine of alienation is applied which states that a person will do almost anything to be an accepted member of the group. I have seen time and time again the spiritual leader say "you know what to do, there are somethings people cant stand!" This is the doctrine of persecuting members until they conform or leave the group. The amount of social pressure that can be exerted in a closed group is immense.
Anon 9:04 you have written an excellent description of how the SCOC system works!
Agreed, which is why it doesn't work as well as God intended it to. They have many ascending to the pulpit who aren't fit to be preaching/teaching. There are different offices/roles that need to be fulfilled and every man being a preacher can make it harder to do that. Scripture teaches that everyone has different skills and gifts to be used in different areas. (Ephesians 4: 11-16, 1 Corinthians 12: 28-31, 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1, Acts 6) Pastors/bishops would primarily teach and feed the flock spiritually. Deacons would primarily help with other physical and emotional needs like helping with church functions, visiting and helping widows, the fatherless, the sick, the poor, etc. Elders would be appointed primarily to use their knowledge and experience to make sure that the doctrines being taught was sound(true) and people weren't going back to the old ways.
The system the SCOC follows, and other man-made teachings as stated earlier, also helps to breed judgemental Christians. The men who aren't up preaching are seen as spiritually weak and "not doing what they are supposed to be doing". If single, the other single women won't "court them" and if married the wives lose respect for them. There are plenty of men with excellent bible knowledge that aren't preaching for various reasons other than sin, but are seen as not faithful enough by many others for not being behind the pulpit. Then they feel guilt and shame for not fitting in or being accepted by the others who are.
Another reason why they want all the men and women to be preachers/teachers is so they can plant more congregations. However because a lot of the men and women sent don't have the experience or qualifications, a lot of new congregations start to have problems or even start to fold completely. I for one remember different sermons given on some of the Christians sent to help or start congregations who weren't meeting expectations.
Again though, this is what a lot of cults do to control members. Create a system where people have to follow and obey man instead of God. Preachers and teachers who misuse their authority and think "teaching" means controlling every aspect of peoples lives and when people don't go to them or follow their advice for everything(no matter how wrong) they're seen as rebellious. Each religious cult or spinoff sect may go about it in different ways, but the outcome and fruit is still the same in the end.
I could be wrong on different points but I think the general description is correct. In each church there are actually two churches. The smaller group is the insiders who dominate and control the group as a whole much like the pharisees and the larger group is the outsiders who often times have no idea of what is being done to them, either for good or for bad. The larger group, the outsiders are kept ignorant, or in the dark about the decisions made concerning their own lives and about the direction choosen by leadership for the church. Your life is literaly in someone elses hands and you may not know it. If you are an observer you can deduce what is going on but you are quickly prohibited from observation by leadership teaching that you only look at yourself and not to be looking around, if you follow this controlling teaching then you are blind to what is going on right under your nose. One preachers was in the procesd of stealing another mans wife when a babe made the offhand comment that the SCOC was just like the baptist church with the cheating going on, the comment was investigated and sure enough the preacher was seducing the mans wife right in front of the blind congregation. The blind sheep are ripe for explotiation and abuse which occurs on a regular basis. One day God will grant you understanding of what is being done to you, how you are being used for free services like babysitting, or free car repair, or free home repair, or free loans that are never repayed by some who walk around at tax time with their hand out asking you "how much of that money is for the brethern?". I am an outsider and have been all my life, and if you think about it who wants to be an insider in a small group that is allowed to be lazy and feed off of the labors of the rest or be an insider who can freely commit child abuse, fornication, adultery, pedophila, and many other evils? It is little wonder to me why God is granting me understandings and blessings because I think fornication and adultery are evil acts and go to great lengths to avoid rhem and men like the evil preacher from Albuquerque condone adultery in his church. Why does God bless the outsiders and curse the insiders? Is it not because they hide their sin behind their authority?
Anon 904, 528: you are on point. The sect absolutely runs as you describe. They might preach that the way they are organized is scriptural, but it is not. Their setup does lead to the men being pressured to preach no matter what other responsibilities they might have. And yes if single for the most part you had better look like you're on your way to preaching some day or your not going to be counseled to be able to seriously talk to someone (unless you are TC's son or another privileged person). It's so sad that they can control people's lives like this and we allowed that to happen to us. Every day I thank God for finding this site so that I could see that the things I was feeling already weren't "just me".
Anon 8:25 perfectly said. They are in a dire need for men and preachers. I know Portland has no one qualified to lead a congregation and it’s been like that for two decades. Funny yes certain families are favored.
For myself I have learned to trust the scriptures and not man. When I study and I find a bad character trait I now assume that I have it and need to work on it. When the scriptures mention the evil eye I assume that I have the evil eye and seek to understand what it is and how to remove it. When the scriptures mention to beware of the leaven of Herod and the Pharisee's, which is hypocrisy I assume that I have the leaven of hypocrisy and seek to understand it and remove it, when the scriptures says that some have a double mind I assume that I have the double mind and seek to understand it and remove it. It has done wonders to my understanding and walk with Christ. The feet point the direction a person is going and so when a person speaks with their feet it means the have chosen a path to travel. I look at my feet and see the direction of travel is often after my pride, superiority complex, and arrogancy, and have to stop and change my direction of travel back to the testimonies of God as David said in Psalms 119:59. I come to understand that I had the double mind because I was worshipping both God and the golden calf of lust. Whenever I was bored, lonely, uncomfortable, I sought the comfort of pleasure found in lust, but now have learned to seek the comfort in God as David did constantly in his life as described in Psalms, life is so much more pleasant being single minded toward God. The depth of instruction from the pulpit in the SCOC was only an inch deep at most that is most lessons were carnal with little or no spiritual applications given. The scriptures are deep if you study them sincerely. I found today that we must put a valuation upon people in many different areas such as level of intelligence, emotional strength, moral strength and then treat them accordingly and not to overload them with more than the individual can handle. Everyone is of equal importance but not everyone is of equal ability. I found also that being simple minded is easy as we were taught to trust and obey but this is wrong because the simple believe every word but the wise stops and questions the truthfulness of falsehood of everything and either follows or rejects the advice given, the simple are like sheep and simply follow any instruction without question which can be very destructive in the hands of evil leaders. God is truly wise is the way he does things.
Many times in every church the leaders or insiders as you call them have some sort of disgrace or person within the group that has sinned and the congregation finds out about it. It is revealed and they are dismissed from their leadership role because of their sins. Adultrey is the big one. I personally have been a so called insider in one church for many years but after changing churches I now am a outsider and I much prefer it that way. Quite funny to watch at times the insiders or leaders doing their job and people who so want to be in the clique or be an insider. The same happens in the workplace or in schools. But in this cult it is very dysfunctional and sick just like the many other cults I have studied. I guess we are all trying to fit in where ever we are. On the other hand it is so much easier to be real and your own person. I pray daily for the family members inside who are being deceived.
The preacher from Albuquerque publicly admitted that a few insiders are controling the church but justified it saying that everyone else wanted to be an insider. What he failed to add was that the insiders were controlling the organzation for their own profit at the rests ecpense. I look at the behaviors of the insiders and think what wicked people who would want to belong to a group consisting of sowers of discord, felony child abusers, a pedaphile, liars and thieves? I would rather be a poor and lowly Christian than join that club of insiders. The insiders do enjoy great privlidges such as having their sins swept under the rug, freeloading off of the hard working christians, having their house payments made for them by the church, having cars bought for them by the church, and my favorite from the preacher from Albuquerque teaching that no one is to ask the mercedes mechanic (a fallen away former teacher) for free auto repair while at the same time he himself was getting his car repaired for free by the mercedes mechanic, and on and on and on. The outsiders can do no right even if you are following what scriptures command sonehow the insiders can come up with some fault. I do not accept anything free because I know that nothing is free, not even time, I prefer to pay my own way and not be a burden on others. Much of what insiders do is done in secret but they like to brag, one man who worked for a local oil distributor open bragged about working overtime on saturdays taking a load up to the flagstaff warehouse and the tsking a two hour nap on top of the cases of oil he just deliveted and getting paid time and a half for it, no one suspected anything until he started bragging about it. The same man had a serious weight problem and would go on a diet and drop 50 lbs within a few weeks and then within a few weeks put it right back on and I wondered how this could be because he was not overeating at any of the fellowships but one day he admitted to eating in secret constantly, it showed to those of us with understanding. Look at the evidences and you can deduce what is going on in secret.
Changing subjects but I need some help. I don't know if I will survive another "Stand". There has been three significant stands in the past 5 years. The first was provided to me very lovingly by an email that turned into a later conversation full of reasoning for the stand. The second was with a little bolder, even argumentative. The third was simply in a statement form with absolutely no debate at all. All three were not the simple little stands like keeping a class date. So they were very profound. I am fully vested in my marriage for decades and am so very much in love with my spouse. The older I get the more difficult it is being second to the organization. I walked among the sect for some time however I studied myself completely out of what was being taught. I am still a believer so please pray for me!
Thank you!
Anon 629…your description is a bit vague but it sounds like there have been at least 3 instances in which you had to make a "stand". Did you make them FOR the sect or AGAINST the sect? Your conclusion implies that you are no longer a believer in Merie's teachings but you are a believer of Christ's teachings. Can you clarify?
I am praying for you and your end of marriage decision. Ending a marriage is never easy but sometimes necessary if abuse or infedility is involved. End of marriage may not end the relationship if their are children involved, professional counsel can be helpful.
Anon 6:29 I have a different take on what you said than Anon 7:12… My take is that your spouse who is attending Merie's church has made three stands in the past five years and they are big ones that cause you to feel like the organization comes before you and your marriage. Is your spouse now making a 4th stand that is the proverbial 'last straw' or are you anticipating the next stand? Do you attend church elsewhere, are you on your own, or do you still attend Merie's church with your spouse but are not agreeing with the teachings and have left in your heart?
Ah yes, Anon 1227, I see your point.
And what are these stands? What about your stand? If you have children you will always be involved with the other. I recommend counseling not counsel from a preacher or teacher as their thought process is distorted by the teachings they follow.
The wisdom of God is very deep. The proverbs are abstract psychological concepts. An abstract psychological concept describes thoughts that are symbolic and conceptual and not concrete or specific. Concrete thinking focuses on the present or here and now specificity while abstract thinking is based on concepts, principles, and relationships between ideas and objects. An example is Proverbs 10:1 the proverbs of Solomon a wise son maketh a glad father: but a foolish son is the heaviness of his mother in this proverbs a father can be your own carnal father and being wise makes him happy and accepts you but being foolish makes him unhappy and rejects you leaving you at home with your mother. A father can also be your spiritual father which is God in heaven and being wise makes him happy and accepting and being foolish by giving into sin makes him unhappy and rejects you. A father can also be evil like Satan and if Satan is your authority figure as in when King Saul went crazy and chased David around Israel for thirty eight years then you would choose to be foolish and get rejected by Satan and his allies and David did in 1 Samuel 21:13 and thus save your life from an evil master. A father figure in my life was the military and they said if you want to be wise and keep your job, then lose some weight or you will be rejected back to society which born you. The proverbs can be applied in unlimited ways and still be true and correct. Like the Rorschach ink blot test which works on the abstract principle that all the world is a reflection so too are the proverbs, they reveal you inner thoughts to others. Ask a person to read one of the proverbs and then define the terms in the proverbs such as what does father mean to you? or what does wisdom mean to you? or what does son mean to you? Each word can have a multitude of meanings and the meaning you choose reveal your history, you family, your thinking, how you turn the abstract into concrete can be very revealing so a wise man learns to say as little as possible because the wise understand that a few words can reveal the thoughts and intents of your heart to others. Learning the proverbs can have amazing affect
Thistles are an interesting weed. Every part of the thistle has thorns on it from the stem to the leaves to the flower bulb. The thistle is to the weed world what the porqupine is to the animal world. Is abstract thinking the same as receiving understandings from God? I read in Genesis 6? That when the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful they took them for wives, which is an abstract concept and can be seen in the behaviors of Abraham, Iassic, anf Jacob who took beautiful women for wives, but I see the same concept with Moses who took an egyptian woman for wife, so which is the correct understanding for daughters of men ,beautiful women or women outside the hebrew nation? Both, it applies equally. The Merie group has the ability to read abstract psychological concepts such as a little leaven leavens the whole lump and apply every excess behavior as comming from uncleaness(which is excess sexual behavior in any form) but in truth any behavior which is out of temperance can lead to excess behaviors in other areas and eventually a persons whole life becomes a life of excess. Abstract thinking in and of itself is not understandings from God because the SCOC would be able to read abstract psychological concepts and apply it to their own lives and leadership methods. The SCOC has a long hstory of predatory behavior going after children and abusing them, the children being the weakest members of the flock. The SCOC also has a history of abandoning single moms by their husbands who are made man slaves to other leaders, again single moms are the weaker part of the flock. There are wolves in sheeps clothing, their are wolves in shepherds clothing, and their are wolves in wolves clothing. Just because an individual has knowledge, and abstract thinking ability does not mean they are from God, the only way to identify a godly person is by their behavior, are they kind and supportive to the weaker members of the fkock or are they mean and cruel like the thistle? In proverbs chapters 1 through 9 it gives the precepts or rules for wise behavior, and in chapter 8 it teaches us to identify God and those who personify god by their example, God does all thing with a wise example first. It says that their is nothing froward or perverse in a wise persons mouth so when you find froward (thorny like a thistle) or perversity comming out of a persons mouth you are talking to a fool and should stop the conversation and leave, even if the person is your talking with is your teaching preacher in the SCOC, rejection is commanded by wisdom.
The moon goes through different stages each month, it starts out with no moon, then a quarter moon, then half moon, then three quarters moon, then full moon then three quarters, half, quarter, then no moon at the end of the month. When the moon is increasing it is called a waxing moon and when it is decreasing it is called a wanning moon. Christ said the reason the Jews did not understand is because their heart had waxed gross, or in more modern terms they had an enlarged heart from living large. How much excesses did tbe Jews enjoy under the Roman occupation? The examples of numbers of marriages was not one or two but with the samaritian woman at the well it was five marriages, with the pharisees questioning of Christ whose wife shall she be for all seven had her to wife, excess marriages. With the over throwing of the money changers table in the temple it was the spiritual leaders who got mad because they were covetous(and implied getting rich off of the house of God). The young man asking what lack I yet he was told to go and sell all that he had but he went away sad because he had many possessions. Time and time again Christ attacked the excess of the jews of his day, he hit the nail on the head by attacking there sin of excesses. What was wrong was not marriage, or possessions, but their lack of temperence which choked their understandings. I had little understanding though I studied much until I took control of my daily environment and cut off those excess which were chocking out Gods word.
When you cast aspersions on someone, you are questioning their abilities or doubting them, you are suggesting that they are not very good. When you are edified and your leaders turns around and cast aspersions on the edification you must realize that you are listening to a person who has the spirit of a pharisee. Pr 10:14 tells us that wise men lay up knowledge, kind of like the ant storing up for winter, and an example of this is seen with Mary, the mother of Christ who did not understand the sayings about her son but she laid them up in her heart, that is she remembered rhem. Christ warned of the destruction that was to come upon Jerusalem but the pharisees discredited him in the eyes of the people by casting aspersions upon him, but Christ was not wrong. You have the ability to choose you teachers, that is, who you will listen to, therefore choose wisely. Paul the apostle after edifying the people asked in return for carnal support, I ask that if you have been edified that in return that you glorify my god, Jesus Christ by saying some good to an unbeliever, exalt God in the eyes of the unbelievers and God will repay you with understandings as he has done for me. God bless
Why was Solomon chosen to succeed his father David in the throne of Israel? Solomon was not the oldest of David's children, he was not the most loved either, so why was Solomon chosen? In the Soviet Union under Stalin there was a man chosen by Stalin to do his dirty work, his name was Lubenchenko and he was a dwarf. Stalin knew that due to his inferior size he would do everything possible to prove to himself that he was superior to other men and so he was the prime murdered in Stalin's purges in the early thirties. After Lubenchenko had finished Stalin's dirty work Stalin called him in and falsely accused him of murder and had him shot. Those who are inferior in any way will go to great lengths to prove to themselves, not that they are equal to others, but rather that they are superior to others. Solomon was the most inferior of David's sons being a bastard son of an adulterous then murderous relationship. Solomon was chosen because he would strive to prove to himself that he was superior to others, he would be a king of pride over a nation of prideful people. God shows us in Solomon where the superiority complex starts, that is in those with an inferiority complex, and its path to power, and its eventual failure. It is sad but when a inferior person seeks for wisdom they are admitting that they are inferior and in need of wisdom, not to become equal to others but rather superiors to others. The people with the inferiority complex and the very people who should never be given wisdom because of the abuses they will inflict on others in their never ending quest to prove to themselves that they are superior. The inferior complex turned superiority complex seeks for constant external approval from others. They will have the best cars to drive, the biggest houses to live in, and will disdain anyone who casts doubts upon their superiority. In spiritual matters they will not seek to please the Lord but rather they will seek to prove to themselves that they are superior to others through domination and control of others and through the abuse of power, they will be oppressors. In the end they will belong to the NFL(no friends left) club having destroyed every relationship they are in. I have to refrain from posting more of my understandings out of fear I might be empowering the next oppressor. I encourage all others to seek wisdom from God through diligent study and application of his words. God bless.
Regression is a very powerful psychological tool currently in use by the wicked so I feel free to identify it to others. Regression or reducing someone to a child allows the oppressor to take away the autonomy of other adults and gives the oppressor unchallenge authority over others as the parent. Through belittling someones intelligence by calling them a fool you regress them to a child incapable of making a wise decision. Other terms used to regress others is you are babe in Christ after the first three years of believing, or treating someone else as an imbicile. By bullying others you regress them and exalt yourself as superior. If you are to escape the prison whose bars are mental and invisible to others you have to esteem yourself worthy of respectful treatment from others and reject the oppressors who try to regress you to an inferior state. The truth will set you free if you believe it, God is someone with great love for you and wants you to be free from the prison you are in.
Christian Bullies? Think about it! This cult has to be stopped starting from the top down. All the children lives that have been ruined. Pray for strength they can get out even if parents will not..
Anon 5:23 wow great point on regression. Absolutely anon 7:50 bullies but far from Christians. The bully system began with there leader of the cult Merie Weiss and continue’s with there current bully leader SV paid preacher GP. Another child in Portland who is in HS left there home. No surprise. Oppression in homes run rampant. If I was a child in one of these homes I’d leave too.
As spiritual children under hostile and abusive spiritual parents the carnal choice is to rebel but I ask you to consider a different option and that is to chose spiritual maturity. So many murmur, that is speak evil of dignities, but it does little good, I ask that you consider becoming a spiritual father or mother and lead others to Christ and leave the anti attitude to others. So much good can be accomplished by the setting of a loving example and teaching others the virtues of Christ. In the proverbs 14:25 it says that a true witness delivereth souls, but a deceitful witness speaketh lies and this abstract psychological concept can be seen applied and becoming concrete by Solomon in 1 Kings 3:25-26 when he rendered his split decision to cut the child in two and give half to one woman and half to the other woman and the real mother said no give it to the other woman, she was the true witness because she sought to save life; but the other woman said okay and therefore was the false witness because she sought death. In the spiritual world love is equated with life and hatred with death. In Proverbs 10:11 it says the mouth of a righteous man is a fountain of life; and the well is fed from a heart with love in it and as Christ said of the Pharisees their throat was an open sepulchre, being fed from the hatred in their heart. As we strive to go forward from abuse let us seek the loving favor of our God by doing the things he delights in, and learn how to heal the broken in heart as spiritual parents should. We have all suffered for the name of Christ being sincere believers, let the persecution be a jewel in our crown of blessings.
I meant to end with a question I ask myself and that is: am I a true witness of God or a false witness of God? Am I seeking to save souls or destroy them?
The leaders of this cult have selfish, evil souls. They should be destroyed. Keep the exposure bright and focused. When the government authorities finally see what this group does, there will be retribution for their evils. Perhaps too late for many they affected, but their damage will not continue. And my hopes? They will suffer anguish for their remaining years. They won't suffer guilt. It's not part of their genuine nature.
I'll end with a question also.
How could anyone believe their lies and endure their doctrines of abuse and belittlement for so long?
Answer: regression. Once reduced to a mental child and not allowed to make your own decisions people remain in abusive groups hoping it will get better until the group falls apart, some for their entire life. See the Amazon film "Holy Hell" for an example.
Anon 9:02 and 9:54 I’m seeking to expose Merie’s cult. I’m hoping in doing so it will lead people out of the cult and to a healthy church.
Craig, I hope this happens.. I'm willing to do anything it takes.. Also, if. a teen has no where to go they are welcome to come to my house instantly. I lived with someone still very involved in the church and was a member for a short time but knew more about the church than some members who have been in for ages.. But dummy me still joined for awhile . Still kicking myself!
Anon July 6, 3:51, don’t kick yourself too much. I was one of the kids that were tied up. I rebelled as a teen, ran away from home so my parent wouldn’t make me go any more and still joined at 18. I hadn’t replaced the dysfunctional teaching with anything so when I ran into trouble I didn’t have any tools to help so it was right back to the church as it was all I knew.
For those that have left or are about to leave, I can’t emphasize enough the importance of replacing the teaching of the SCOC with healthy spiritual teachings. It’s a process but brick by brick you can rebuild and have a beautiful life.
I'm sorry for what you went through.. That's why I hate to see if there's any teens that need to leave and they don't have anywhere to go.. I know my home would be open to them instantly
The problem by being so structured with the kids when they are 18 and decide to leave they are unprepared as all their choices have been made for them and many times make the wrong choices. Very predictable.
I agree that so many teens are unprepared when they leave home. Many parents put so little focus on education that when they come out, many are not knowledgeable enough to find well-paid jobs. Not all, but way too many.
Of course, one of the factors is that parents just don't spend enough family time within the home. Dr. Laura, a radio personality, used to say that society nowadays pushes "quality time" over "quantity time" way too much, and that quantity time MATTERS. Merie's church has the same thinking as today's society, that if the time you spend with your family is all "quality" then there should be no issues. Problem is, after working a job and doing for Merie's church, many –particularly dads– don't have the energy for a lot of "quality" time. Sometimes, we just need REAL time with our families, doing nothing. Just being a family, minding your business–as the bible teaches– and just being away from the same people almost every day, which breeds gossip and everyone up in each other's lives. I've been out of that for a year and a half now and though initially there was an adjustment period, I am finding a better balance, my relationship with my husband is better, and our home is much more peaceful. We're tired from taking care of our family, not everyone else's, or spending a lot of time in other's homes, etc. I know they teach otherwise, but there are examples in the bible where families take care of their own FIRST.
That is the key word “balance” and I totally agree about the church wants to keep everyone dumbed down and not prepare their teens for further education. The teens in the churches I am acquainted with have a lot of friends but when they turn 18 away they go….to get away from so many rules. Some run away sooner. How many do you know that stay as young adults?
Anon 7:32 How many do you know that stay as young adults? It’s a rarity in Portland. For the one true church you’d think they’d stay being taught there is no hope of heaven anywhere else.
I often wondered why the world war two generation lived such long lives, many into their eighties and some into their nineties until I mediated upon proverbs 10:27 where it says the fear of the Lord prolongeth days. It was easy to see their fear of the Lord in their hatred of and fight against evil as it also says in proverbs 8:13 that the fear of the Lord is to hate evil. As many of us hate and fight against evil in the pulpit, that is we oppose tryanny in leadership I am sure that we also will receive long life. As we speak out against the heresies, the physical abuse of children, the neglect of families we will win few friends among the current leadership but the resistance has to be present so Satan does not enjoy free reign. Surety is a good study, surety being security. Some provide physical security to thier friends, some provide financial security to others, and for rich men their security is their riches as it says in Proverbs 10:15 the rich mans wealth is his strong city. Riches can buy food, can buy one protection, and riches can empower one over their fellow man. Satan tempted Christ with these three: food, protection, and empowerment but Christ refused Satan and still provided food, protection, and spiritual empowerment to his followers. For the believers God is our surety for good: he promises to provide us with our daily bread, protection from evil, and empowerment over evil. Dont fear evil and tbeir revenge, trust in God and speak boldly against their abuses.
Portland’s astonishing four baptisms in going on ten years now. One being the snake preachers MM son. One of there newer members was smart enough to escape the cult. I congratulate her. The other preacher is down again. Amazing this is at least the forth time. Great guy just can’t stay in the good graces of the snake. Lol. Funny how everyone but the snake goes down. You’re the problem MM. Leader of a dead congregation of Merie’s dead church. So sorry Portland members. I’m sure you’ll be stuck with him for as long as he (preaches) as he is in his new home near his company.
Wow is good to be back with my ex again, thank you Dr Ekpen for the help, I just want to let you know that is reading this post in case you are having issues with your lover and is leading to divorce and you don’t want the divorce, Dr Ekpen is the answer to your problem. Or you are already divorce and you still want him/her contact Dr Ekpen the spell caster now on (ekpentemple@gmail.com) or whatsapp him on +2347050270218 and you will be clad you did
There's a website I would like to recommend on cults. https://www.familiesagainstcultteachings.org/Cult-Education/Destructive-Groups/
The link is to the Destructive-Groups page but go to the home page to read more after.
Also did anyone see Leah Remini's special on Jehovah's Witnesses this week on the A&E channel? It's eerily much like this cult. Watch and judge for yourself.
It’s quite interesting that the same San Francisco that produced Jim Jones, produced a few of Stanton’s teachers too, especially in Vallejo.
While Jim Jones was a crazy commie whacko, who suckered African Americans with his race victimization narrative, just like the communist Democrats do today, there are interesting parallels with Stanton.
In no way am I suggesting his murderous tendencies are anything close to Stanton, but the devotion required by him, and absolute unquestioning obedience, is similar to that required by Stanton’s leadership. I’ve never seen anyone publicly disagree with a teacher and survive to talk about it in Stanton.
I would recommend watching the NBC video that shows the hours right before everyone died of drinking the Kool-Aid. It’s chilling to watch the 39 minute mark, where a congressman, Leo Ryan, who is visiting to investigate claims of abuse, says that the place seems pretty nice. About three minutes of enthusiastic cheering erupts from the unwitting audience, who loves and adores Jim Jones so much, not knowing he will lead them to death, a few short hours later. Leo Ryan was murdered minutes later at the orders of Jim Jones.
Horrifyingly fascinating insight.
Yet, the blind obedience that Stanton requires is quite similar, only they don’t have Jim Jones violence and communism mixed in. They use emotional and psychological terrorism to enforce fear.
It’s really sad, because they stand for so much good, yet they pervert the law, not understanding the spirit. They don’t understand that correction is apart of life, even for teachers. Anytime a human thinks they are too big for correction, you know trouble is on the horizon. Pride goes before the fall. Jim Jones went down, and Stanton will too.
Ironic that the sign behind the congressman talking shows “Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it”, the quote from the philosopher, Santayana. Jim Jones and Stanton didn’t learn from history, and repeated and repeat her mistakes.
http://thefederalist.com/2018/11/16/40th-anniversary-jonestown-massacre-perfect-time-brush-cults-operate/