I’m told that in an August 2002 meeting between Tacoma and Portland, it was admitted by leadership in a talk that the church has a separate set of unwritten rules outside the Bible. (If anyone has audio of this, I’d love to get a digital copy.)
I’m happy to hear that Stanton’s unwritten rules may have been acknowledged publicly. Why no one has called them out over this horribly unbiblical practice in the 15 long years since it was acknowledge in 2002, I have no idea. I can only presume it has something to do with group-think, or the fear of withdrawal for murmuring, or other intimidation tactics that keep people quiet in the face of ludicrously unbiblical nonsense.
Unwritten rules? Really? Non-member classes used to routinely mock other sects for having their books of rules in addition to the Bible. Does not writing extra-Biblical rules down somehow make them more acceptable?
How is this practice in line with sola scriptura, i.e. scripture alone, which I thought we all agreed on in principle? How is this even in the same universe as the Stone/Campbell motto of speak where the Bible speaks, and be silent where it’s silent? Spoiler alert: it’s not.
It’s way off base, totally unbiblical, and just more evidence of the distance Stanton has traveled away from the Bible. Not that it was terribly close when it started. But that’s a different story.
Nevertheless, I will commend leadership for admitting to this practice of binding unwritten rules. Before you can fix a problem, you have to be honest enough to admit you have one.
Well if nothing else, they are written here for all to see! I was just commenting to my husband about the rules yesterday. We were discussing how they criticize other religions for their rule books and just because Merie's church doesn't have a published rule book doesn't mean they don't have extra rules. And they ARE written! Members write them constantly in the notebooks they use in class. That's better than it being written for you! If you write their judgments/rules over and over and over, you start to believe and remember them better. And before you know it, you… Read more »
Also about a month ago I spoke to a preacher about the teachings. When I mentioned extra-biblical rules such as pantyhose wear being taught earlier this year, his reason for that was twofold:1 did the teacher SAY you were sinning by not wearing pantyhose? (I could not recall but asked if it wasn't a sin WHY did she spend 10-15 min of ladies class on it when I could have been learning something profitable); and2 Well if she didn't say it was a sin then she was just teaching on the high standard of dressing properly for God.This is how… Read more »
I remember discussing with members of the church about our handbook in our church several years ago and they said their church teaches strictly from the Bible and no additions. Either this was a big lie to me or they were so brainwashed they did not know the difference. I was reading other articles on Other Church of Christs and they say they are cults. Are they all cults? What is so bad about being withdrawn? Who cares if you are leaving the church anyway. Is it carried with you like a prison record? Life is short to be in… Read more »
Yes, you have a prison record and then they make sure you have no visitation rights.. They keep everything recorded on member's withdrawls etc.. Im glad I'm in a book of notes somewhere LOL
What's so bad about being withdrawn from personally is nothing, really. I don't fear what any man can do to me. And frankly, if they tried to impose some kind of retribution on me for this blog (which they can't, scripturally, but that hasn't stopped them before), it would only hurt my elderly mom, who also is a founding member of the sect. So I'm safe, but my mom may not be. That's the sad thing about it. If they tried to punish me, they would only hurt my mom. The way it affects family members is that they use… Read more »
How can ANYONE sit back and destroy families like this.. when I was in the church it seemed like they spent more time on all these weird rules then they did actual studying.. what I see on this blog makes so much sense and it's just common sense on how Kevin and many explain the Bible on the places they are so wrong.
So you are saying the only saving grace for the parent who withdraws or leaves is if the entire family gets out of the church. Why can't they just walk away and quit the crazy cult. I know the entire family of one member who have left that church and she is the only one in it and they have family gatherings including her as I have attended them. None of them go to any church as this cult has left a bad taste in their mouth.
To answer your question, the what makes that person’s situation different is her children have not been withdrawn from. If any of the kids were withdrawn from, she wouldn’t be allowed to eat with that child.
Seeking, I enjoy reading your posts. You have good insight and make your points clearly. Thanks!
There is the International Church of Christ Boston Movement. If you Google them with cults, you'll find similar issues as with Merie's church. They too get people to cut off family members from their lives. And that's the worst part of their use of withdrawal and any other similar tactic. For example, I'm not withdrawn from yet my older kids who still go rarely speak to me, and when they do, it is forced. The preacher I spoke to about this and who had my 19 yr old move out of my house and into his, told me it was… Read more »
@Seeking, yes I think teachers end up reaping what they sow. I don't wish that on them, and try to bridge the gap in their understanding to impart a little wisdom that comes from having been raised in this sect from infancy. I've experienced the radical idealism of Stanton as a youth, and my dad tried to warn me that it wasn't all it cracked up to be. He was right. I've seen the destruction this sect brings to families like a cross-generational virus. Kids get infected as youth when they're vulnerable; they dive in passionately, and get married. With… Read more »
It is so hard to believe this as "too late" kind of talk. If a spouse refuses to leave the cult with you why not divorce. I think it would be ridiculous to spend the rest of your life with a tattle bearing spouse and one that does not eat with you but shun you in your own home especially if you are the head of the household supporting her or him. Silly me…a wife in this cult would not support a "him" I have faith. God knows about this mess that calls themselves a church. I suggest these husbands… Read more »
Churches of Christ have historically been somewhat legalistic, but no, they are not all cults by any means.
Seeking is JS and DS still in that congregation? Kevin this ruining famalies is really disturbing. Mine may only be altered at this time but I don't know what tomorrow will bring. The slander that has taken place against me and continually recognizing me as a member when I'm not is unlawful. I'm going to have to say GP, TC and KS are plain idiots for continuing there damaging ways. It will catch up to them. You Kevin you have politely corrected there false ways including withdrawal. I'm trying to get away from the name calling but they are what… Read more »
Craig, I guarantee you they are reading it.. They would never stay away.. They have to stay on top of things..
What scriptures do they use where a husband and wife cannot discuss a sermon or certain things in particular?.. Do they say that is a sin?.. If not, and it is just one of their rules I would go ahead and do as I pleased. I would discus any sermons and whatnot with my husband/wife. I have a current member friend who discusses a lot with me. They don't have control on alot of things they think they do when it comes to alot of the members.
You can discuss a sermon at least my wife and I did. Just don't put a negative spin towards it. That would get you into trouble.
Dont forget GP wife PP. She may not be that visible but she is a main player behind the scenes. In fact PP is a major player dealing with council.
This is totally true.
Okay PP too? maybe she'll defend her faith?
Anon and Craig, yes you can discuss sermons and the Bible if you agree with everything completely. But what about the times when you notice a verse taken out if context…can you say anything about it without bringing suspicion down on you for murmuring? Are you free to question like Bereans did?
Kevin, that questioning is when the carefulness comes in. "Stop me if I'm saying something wrong". I guess you'd have to know your spouse and if they will tattle on you or not. I certainly never did. I'd give my spouse a listening ear and if something was a bother to me I'd just be careful and say ask your teacher.
Now this is all very curious to me. What happened to freedom of speech? And freedom of speech in our own homes and with our spouse no less! We are suppose wto watch what we say to our own spouse? It is like walking on eggshells and what a terrible like it is….no wonder there are so many health issues in the congregation especially stomach issues.
Anon 8:39 good I hope they are reading it and if they had the courage to defend themselves, their cult or want to challenge me on any facts I've commented on this blog here is my contact numbers again. 360-721-2353 or craigcusick52@gmail.com
And yet she has a Facebook posting silly stuff..but it's advised not to have one.. Lol.. King and queen really don't do well with their own rules
And I will stand behind my son 100 per cent and grandson who left the cult. And I pray the other three get out.
AnonymousJuly 23, 2017 at 10:10 PM
Where is her Facebook? Do you have a link?
Is there a link to her Facebook?
Is there a link for the Facebook?
Craig yes JS and DS are in SA as the main preacher/ teacher.
Funny about PP. Just looked n she DOES have a Facebook account! That's hilarious. She even has done some of the time-wasting quizzes. Haha. Sooo funny. Well, if she wants to see her grandkids this is probably one way. But who knows? Maybe she's gambling on there or wasting time playing farm games. Or looking up an old, tall boyfriend. Lol. I'm just thinking about all the stuff we were taught not long ago about the dangers of social media!
The dangers of social media.. I think we're all adults and can figure out our own lives and how we deal with it. I don't think many of them are very knowledgeable about online as most people are…. They have no right to rule over any of it.. I laughed when I saw her Facebook.. They think they are so high up there and they do as they please when others can't. Maybe those two should leave their family and Grandchildren and go help a church somewhere in another part of the USA.. They expect everybody else to leave their… Read more »
I just checked her out and all I see is a cranky looking older woman who does not look like God to me or rather Mrs God. Why would I want to follow her or her husband? I am sure she goes to the bathroom just like the rest of us and her blood is the same color as all of us. Oh this is all so disturbing and somehow needs to be exposed.
Her video clip only had a few views a couple days ago when I mentioned this on here.. Now it's gotten 70 views LOL… so people are reading this blog.. she's had a Facebook for quite a few years
Isn't this the Pharisee mindset that's been discussed in this blog concerning the scoc practices and rules? Do as I say not as I do? Hypocrite
I just tried looking her up and no records so does this mean they are reading this blog and took it down and will make it difficult for my daughter in law and grandchildren? Do they realize I will fight for them to get out especially my grandchildren? Do they realize we have family and friends that will support us?
Jo, it's still there plus I have it all screenshotted LOL me bad
To have the mindset you are more godly than most and can do as you want and others will just be a failure if they do is funny. I'm being nice on this blog. I'd rather rip people like this apart.. Lol
Thanks for being nice. Who knows…maybe God is working on her heart and showing her things that will lead her out of this sect. 🙂
I too am trying to be nice as well Kevin as I'm working on bitterness. Legal action could be coming soon scoc. Anyone have any ideas how to get the government involved to investigate the scoc. I'm sure there would be groups that would be very interested in how there unscriptural practices damage and destroy marriages, famalies and lives. Any ideas how to get a cult watch group looking into the scoc as well.
The jehovah witnesses do the same thing too on shunning family.. But not as bad as Merie's church
Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not personally inclined to think there's a legal case. That's just me. Others will have to make their own judgment for themselves. I'm a big defender of the 1st Amendment—religious groups, even wrong ones, have the legal right to freedom of speach and freedom of association. Members voluntarily show up and voluntarily submit to their doctrines. Why? Because they've been *convinced* of their truth by Stanton's illogical and unbiblical teachings. So to me, the best course is to use the skill of reasoning and the command to love that God gave to me… Read more »
Child abuse back in the day would of got them. But people are free to be foolish if they want to. If I was a parent in a battle for my children in the church I'd get a good lawyer and be showing the judge this blog. I'm wondering if they knew they could get away with it if they would still be tieing kids hands etc. Anyone this sick in the mind to do this in the first place needs to be put away. I'm sure alot of the abuse has tamed down so they don't have anyone coming… Read more »
Legal action is limited to the paying back of damages received. The SCOC is tame compared to other religious groups that have been tried in the courts. Jim Jones and the peoples temple were successfully sued after his demise because they had millions in the bank to go after. The SCOC is a collection of poor people who are kept poor by the groups teachings, to go after them legally is a waste of time as there is little assets they hold, i.e. they do not own property, the congregations have small collections and the insurance they hold is small;… Read more »
Anon 3:24 for me it's not about money it's about having my name cleared from any association with this cult. To continue to call me a member when I am not is slander, it's a lie. Im not fallen away, I'm not withdrawn from as they claim. I'm a nonmember think goodness however at this point it affects my family. This is total wickedness executed by this cults so called leadership.
Anon 3:24, amen, brother (or sister). Have we met?
Also don't think they are all poor. I'd be for whoever wanted to go after them for money as well. A lot of mental and emotional abuse has been executed by this group.
I agree with Kevin, in general. The only difference I think is if you're taking someone in particular for a civil or criminal matter. Let's say a parent is SCOC and one not, and there's a divorce. The nonSCOC parent could certainly have a case against a parent who supports the cutting off of another parent or who does not allow the other parent to exercise his/her religious beliefs when the child is in their care. That is standard divorce text. If one parent and / or members of the sect associated with that parent are alienating the child from… Read more »
Anon 2:26..I agree! Yes it could. I even told my own Son that if he brought my Grandson into the church I would take all this to court.. 99% of Judges would think this church is crazy period. Don't get me wrong my son and I get along really well and we have all been a part of this churche's mess and this blog saved us all. Now my son almost slaps himself from almost joining!
I think what you're saying has some validity. If a parent is being mistreated or maligned by a disaffected spouse in the church, or the church is specifically alienating affections of a child or spouse, there may be some legal merit to take action. I guess I lean to the side of not going down that road, because it is fraught with potholes and unforeseen consequences in child psychology and future relationships. But each person will have to weight the legalities and consequences of their actions. For now, my strategy is one of convincing the erring of their errors, and… Read more »
Anon 2:32, I'm glad your son didn't get too involved before having second thoughts. He saved his family a lot of future heartache.
Me too Kevin! I was withdrawn from but then later I/they decided my baptism was not good. But it was while I was withdrawn from that I went through all this with my Son.
It's EXTREMELY rare for a custody case between a member and their nonmember spouse to go in favor of the member. I have been around for decades and I can't think of a single member who won in court, in fact more than one case ended with the nonmember father being named the custodial parent.
That's probably because if the other parent gets custody, the parent in the church has more time for church responsibilities. So why fight it?
I can't even imagine giving up your child for this. So sad.
Agreed…Court in most cases should only happen because you are already in a battle or because of severe alienation. Spending time and talking with your children is the best antidote to this cult. And get them around smarter people! ( no offense intended)
Sounds like good advice. Hard to get busy teenagers scheduled but will try harder. Thanks
I have been told one of the teachers in the Portland cult is a former attorney. Is this true or did she just go to law school. Maybe she is a law coach of some type for leadership?
That is true. She practiced in Coos Bay, Oregon.
Who is it?
Present day teacher in Portland initials are ST.
Has anyone tried to friend PP yet? Recognize any of her friends? Need to get this blog out to them. Social media will be s great source to spread the word. So question 2 John 9 frequently used at the doors or nonmember classes. Whosoever transgresseth and abidith not in the doctrine of Christ hath not God. He that abidith in the doctrine of Christ hath both the Father and Son. Verse 5 is the answer to what the doctrine of Christ is? Love? So you take this coupled with the scoc teaching on verse 9 they obviously transgress the… Read more »
Should screen shot all her friends incase she hides them, get a fake Facebook account and send them all the blog, titled PP's church and Be warned it's scary LOL
Get you Depends on order PP. Are you seeing your future yet. Lost and alone with a little man. Just pretend to love him as you do.
Your gate is open and your flock is escaping. Time to Cut and Run
I just read this gem from Paul and had to share it in this thread: Colossians 2:20-23 – Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules? 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh… Read more »
Assuming everyone is keeping up with current affairs and praying for our president and ours country with recent happenings in our country. This is more important than pantyhose!
There is a grief and loss process everyone goes through. We as human develop attachments to everything in our lives and most of the time without realizing it. we attach to family, friends, church, pets, society, and pretty much everything else in our lives. When a loss or change occurs we react with shock, depression, anger, bargaining, and denial. Once past those initial reactions we will either resist the change or accept the change. resistance to change is seen in seeking revenge, rage, apathy, addictions, despair, delusions, and at the extreme suicide. When we accept change the behaviors seen are… Read more »
"I was taught by example that righteousness was being able to find fault with others and then to criticize them on their faults. I have detached from this definition of righteousness and now define righteousness as love and patience and kindness to others in their faults." Agree, and still working to become more like the latter.
Good thoughts anonymous 2:26 and good goal Seeking.
Very insightful comments anon 2:36 and seeking. I understand the grief process very well as I went through my husbands and sons death. And all these feelings popped up again when I found out about this cult and family members still involved. One other thing is we can easily relapse and go back to one of these steps if we do not work on the positive daily. Nature and outdoors and music is healing for me and helping others as well as a healthy church friends and family who support one another. I would be curious how long it has… Read more »
I started studying psychology and specifically the psychology of religion. In studying the common tactics of cults I saw the same methods in use in the SCOC. A religion teaches general principles to be followed by its members such as: no fornication/ adultery and then the consequences of the particular sin are taught to keep members on the straight and narrow. A cult teaches to keep the leader happy and enslaves it members, the general principles change according to the moods and whims of the leader, I saw both fornication and adultery condoned by the Phoenix church under the preacher… Read more »
There is a great deal of psychology in the Bible. Take, for example the Melchizadek preisthood; Melchizadek had no begining nor end he simply was. This is used by cult leaders like this: they do not talk about their past or their future only the here and now; they are anonymous to their followers. Charles Manson was a convicted felon but none of his followers knew that at the time, for if they did they would not have listened to him. The SCOC has no seminary and the leaders do not talk about themselves much, there is no way to… Read more »
The courtship and romance between Christ and the church is as sweet and wonderful to watch as any romance between man and woman. When a man considers a woman ugly or unattractive she is called a "dog" and their is two account of women outside of the nation of Israel asking for Christs gifts and he tells them straight out they are dogs, that is spiritually unattractive to him but the women persist and he grants them healings but tells them his beloved is who he is after not them.
Attendance, attendance, attendance, attendance, attendance,ATTENDANCE, ATTENDANCE, ATTENDANCE, atTeNdANce, AttEnDAnCe, attendance, attendance, Attendance, attendance….
Get my point?
Kinda of, but the example in the scriptures is one of the righteous fleeing when threatened by Satan and then Satan pursuing them and then God stepping in and delivering the righteous from murderous Satan. Many people have chosen to personify Satan through the ages such as Pharaoh, Herod, unbelieving Jews, and many others. Attending a church led by an evil person such as those leaders who have sowed seeds of discord (like the preacher from Albuquerque) those who abuse children, those who bribe the evangelist, those who break up marriages to prove their superiority, would not be wise. It… Read more »
My point is…. Attendance is the ALL important thing in the SCOC. When the emphasis is on attendance it's easy for individuals to outwardly attend and be FAR way from being a true Jesus follower. When a person is new they are told "all that matters is Sunday worship; be at worship; that's all that God expects you to do" Ya right, just wait until Sunday is just a fraction of what you're "expected" to do. On one hand they teach "the only time the church is commanded to come together is on the first day of the week for… Read more »
Anon I absolutely agree. And when you miss, it typically isn't because people actually care about your health but rather because they want to figure out if you're in sin or get you on anything you can be reproved for. How many of us heard murmurings from older ones when someone was out, especially repeatedly? You could hear the surmising in their tone and body language. For me it always felt like most people were asking to catch me doing something wrong, not because they wanted to help me feel better. And God forbid our husbands were just exhausted from… Read more »
I agree with you. Paul told the Corinthians in 1 cor 9:25 that if any man striveth for the mastery he is temperate in all things. Does this temperance in all things include church activities? For me it was not just attend all day Sunday, personal work on Monday's and Wednesdays, mid week bible class on Tuesday, non member bible class on Thursday's, first Friday of the month class first in the Los Angeles area, then with Phoenix and Prescott, and if you had any free time you were called upon to do free car repair or house repair for… Read more »
I wondered why they wanted so much out of people. It was about control and not giving you much free time to think for one self or anytime to study anything else but the Bible. All for naught. Keep the people so tired they really do not know what to do except follow the leader. Lots of time for checking up on others and reporting back to teacher/preacher. Yes it is a cult!
This is the emphasis that Tacoma likes to over indulge in. They actually base your "righteousness" on you attendance. I hear an older brother talking as to what encourages him is seeing people who have chronic infirmities pushing themselves to make it to classes. Another said, "if you came around more the brethren would understand what you are going through". Now, these is a great difference between have chronic infirmities that may hinder you from making some of the classes and meeting and just blatantly forsaking the assemblies. When people had a hard time making it to some of the… Read more »
People react differently when given authority over others. Those with the superiority complex develop a God complex very quickly and start abusing those under them, with no guilt or remorse for their actions. Those with the inferiority complex will crumble and fail at the first sign of adversity. Those with a conscience will treat others as equals and restrain themselves from going to far. In my time in the SCOC the arrogant quickly rose to the the positions of preacher and teacher through subterfuge and not self discipline. The arrogant know no limits and only get worse with time; king… Read more »
To understand the SCOC you only need to understand the difference between utopia and dystopia. The utopian society is perfect and the dystopian society is undesirable and frightening. The dystopian group is disguised as utopian but upon further immersion into the group you learn that there is excessive control, repression, and abuse. This description fits the police state where great power is used to control the citizens. In this state the people holding power become far more advanced than the rest, which creates the separation of people into classes. This describes the scribes and Pharisee's who in collaboration with the… Read more »
One of the most basic teachings of any cult group is this: we are superior to the society or world in which we live. The indoctrination of the new recruit starts immediately not with the teaching that the group is superior but rather with the criticism of all outside the group. The criticism serves to increase the members faith, not in God, but in their own superiority to others. This deception is not a one time thing but an ongoing deception as long as the person is a member of the group they will hear criticism of other individuals or… Read more »
The short time I was in the church the main reason I left is the constant gossip, spewing off and making fun of the WORDLY people. It never ended. I thought they were crazy being so obsessed about everyone. If they put as much effort into kindness and listening as they do into their gossiping ways it might help. It's sad.
This is such a surprise to hear this. I can hardly believe my family would be participating or attending such a church. I can hardly believe it. Maybe some congregations are like this but not all? And they call themselves Christians? It is like they were leading a double life?
Each congregation has its own personality usually following the personality of the leading teacher (male or female.) If the teacher is kind the congregation is also kind if the teacher is cruel the congregation is also cruel; it is follow the leader. Today"s lesson was very good for me. In Mathew 5:13 Christ states ye are the salt of the world but if the salt has lost it's savor it is good for nothing but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men. Salt is a metaphor for love and specifically for natural affection. There is natural affection… Read more »
True that congregations can vary a little but ultimately, because they are not actually autonomous, they all run off each other. And negativity/oppression seems to rule over all the churches. Once again, a lack of eldership and independence are some major contributors in what make Merie's church completely "off".
Surprised to hear about bad religion? Churches do go bad as foretold in the book of Revelation chapters 1-3 with the seven churches in Asia. Vigilance is required of every Christian, that is to study the scriptures and speak out when a church goes astray. In my time in the SCOC the teachers word was law. There was to be no questioning, no criticism, no complaints; the ruling teacher dominated and controlled the lives of each member in the local congregation. I was told who to live with, what jobs to work, to quit jobs not approved by the teacher,… Read more »
True, Anon. Just today I asked my hubby for advice n he said "you should ask so and so (leaders where we go now)" and I said no I just want YOUR advice and I'll do that. And so he did. But it was certainly a realization that old habits from the SCOC die hard.
And they hate it when you won't counsel with them. It has even made it to the pulpit/open class when you don't.
You know I thought of 2 seperate things while reading through this blog the first is that as a child and a teenager I was forced to take notes which consisted of just writing the scriptures down for me because what was taught never made sense to me and when I voiced that it made no sense I was told because I was not baptised I did not have the holy spirit so I would not be able to fully understand gods word until I was batised and gained the holy spirit. The second thing that I recall and I… Read more »
Wow, RJ. That is how little by little some there slowly lose the capacity to love others. Certainly there's no way with that thinking that we could ever even be anywhere near Christ's love. While I wasn't in during 9/11, that really doesn't surprise me. I can think of a couple of the older preachers who might have leaned that way. What I am seeing where I go now is lots of prayer for the world. During the hurricane this year we saw so much prayer and brethren even going and spending weeks helping those who lost homes to clear… Read more »
Thanks for sharing.
@M Long that is awesome! I have a question tho this is random its just something I never quite understood can anyone possibly give a few examples of why a preacher may be asked to sit down? I never really understood that whole thing.
A preacher, sharing or teaching, may be asked to (order to) sit down for any number of reasons. If the preacher is stubborn and refuses to sit down, he will be withdrawn from for one reason or another. This is done to bring the preachers under the control of the national leaders. Setting a bad example will get you sat down, as will any withdrawable offense, and I saw many men sat down for various reasons. If a man is respectful and obedient (calling out for council regularly and obeying the council given) then he can preach indefinitely even if… Read more »
Well a preacher would be sat down for any number of reasons. One good example is Tracy's story, here on the blog, main page, left column. Questioning the national leaders and disagreeing with them got her and her husband sat down. The truth is that they keep teaching the LIE that each church is autonomous, which means completely independent. If they were autonomous, leaders from other congregations could not come sit anyone down.Other examples are just about any reproachable sin too like say adultery or too many problems at home with spouse. Sometimes I think some preachers WANT to be… Read more »
Oh my goodness I'm not sure what to think here. My mom was baptized in the Stanton Church of Christ in 76. I was just turning 11 and my brother was turning 7. I rebelled a lot as a teen and left for good when I was 24 (I think, it was a long time ago 🙂 It's been a long hard journey. Ironically, I was inspired to do a google search as I was listening to a podcast about Heaven's Gate. Wow, I haven't poked around the site very much yet and honestly it may take a bit…lots of… Read more »
Hello Dora! Welcome and hopefully you'll share a little more about your experiences. Triggers… Yup! 🙂
Hello and welcome Dora! Are you the same Dora that moved to Portland while I was there? So glad you found this blog!
Hi Debby, yes I did move from Stanton to Portland in 86. I'm glad I found this blog too. It can be hard to talk to others about my experience as it is a very challenging thing to wrap your head around.
Debby did I and my children stay at your home a couple nights when my neighborhood was getting especially dangerous? Did you used to go by a different variant of Debby.
M Long, thanks for the welcome. Triggers, well I have warned my husband that I found this site so I may get a little emotional.
I had to chuckle when I read a post of Kevin's about the Suitcase of Books. I remember that well.
Yes Dora, I was unmarried when I was in Portland so my last name was different. And, yes, you did stay with me back then! I had only been in the group for about a year when you came to Portland 🙂How amazing to meet up again after all of these years! Hope that this site helps you as it's helped me and others. I know the teachers in Portland at that time weren't always kind to you and your husband. I hope things are well for you and him and your children! My goodness, they are kids anymore, are… Read more »
Congrats on your marriage. I hope it’s a happy one! Ha, no my kids are grown, 32, 31, and 30. My daughter has two sons of her own. It was rough going for awhile. Sadly, my first marriage ended in divorce however I was blessed to meet a wonderful man; we’ve been married 8 years now. No the teachers weren’t kind however there were a few that were kind. Honestly, I was in such a blur trying to manage my three babies that what the teachers said was secondary. Oddly enough it was the emphasis on studying for ourselves that… Read more »
RJ as anon 4:02 said concerning your question of preachers getting sat down there are many different reasons. In Portland they can’t keep more than the one preacher they have had preaching since 1998 up. Same one preacher now for a year. If you are not on the same page as that preacher you will not remain up. Likewise with the teachers. Don’t disagree or call him out on anything though there are many things to be concerned about or you will be sat down. Yield to the main preachers. The cult has had issues with preachers/men and pornography as… Read more »
Oh the things I could tell you when I was in Portland . Plus I would have loved to be a fly on the wall listening to all the gossip fluttering around
Anon 7:57 gossip in Portland? Lol
Have they ever explained why they gossip so much and assume things that are not true? Then turn around and think all of that is okay? Or do they ignore the fact of what they do?
Anon 10:44. No explanation it just seemed to be a way of life at least in the Portland congregation. The main preacher is the king gossiper as well so he sets the example. Never heard a confession for gossiping that I can remember. I got wrapped up into it as well bad me for doing so. Ones who fall away or who were in trouble seemed to be the targets of gossiping. I really think it’s ignored or they do not see the wrong in it. Maybe calling it something else other than gossip. However it’s gossip.
Yes gossip is treated like a lesson when they do it. But think about it. Isn't a public reproof just gossip? When they are publicly getting after people over their kids, the way they raise them, their relationships, their choices, isn't that what gossip is?Like in a home, where the parents teach the kids how to behave, so do the leaders in Merie's church, starting back with Merie. All she did was talk about other churches. Then she talked about the people in them. Then when she started her own she got wives and husbands to gossip about each other,… Read more »
And the sad thing about the gossip is that public rebukes are based on it. Also, the teacher and/or preacher makes assumptions of their own, and adds them to the rebukes.All of that is bad enough, but then further punishments are meted out based on the gossip and assumptions (evil surmising). They treat you differently, they avoid you, take away "responsibilities", forbid new members to go to your home without older ones present (you might corrupt the new members in some way), won't let you share in classes or lead in prayers, etc. Also, the teacher and/or leader will then… Read more »
Real moral teachings were indeed lacking. With the problem with pornography it should be taught that it promotes the wanton and chambering thoughts; the effect of the whore/whoremonger is to encourage evil thoughts. Learning to resist the lust of the flesh starts in the mind with the decision that I am not going to be wanton; that is, thinking about other possible sexual partners, but rather as God laid it down from the beginning only one spouse and resist and reject all desires for others as many of the righteous did in the bible like Job in Job 31:1 I… Read more »
Hummmm. Things to consider Under these thoughts I wonder if this complete blog is then murmering? Do you think?
ANNE NON I could see some comments might be viewed as that. But here's the major clincher: it's not being done in a religious leadership capacity or from a pulpit. It's also a place where people are learning about the deceit of Merie's church and how she started it with divisions and how her legacy is just that – more divisions. Even in the Bible people who were fakes were called out and exposed.
The preachers/teachers would rely on a lot of partial information. It seems that if they don't have all the information and/or they would "assume" it to be negative. All the while using these on their own brethren. Whenever you were approached over the lack of information evil surmising and would would try to let them know their surmising was wrong they would accuse of justifying it or being defensive. One time, I found a teacher's note book and looked in it and there were details about other members. I didn't read them. I just noticed that they were there. It… Read more »
Anne Non: Also consider the biblical meaning of murmuring.What you may not realize is that most of us just took Merie's group at their word. After all, aren't Christians suppose to be honest and trustworthy? So when we were taught that murmuring was defined as speaking against teaching and/or teachers, we accepted that!Go back into your bible and study murmuring. You will find it to be very different, especially in context.God does NOT speak to the teachers/leaders in this group. Most of them shouldn't even be teachers/leaders. Christ spoke against the religious leaders/teachers of his time, was HE murmuring? He… Read more »
The question to be asked is WHY does this cult exist? I believe it's for Money & Power for it's leadership. Not, for teaching the membership,the Life of Christ. How hopeless can one be to follow their lies? Just a bit of human intuition will tell you they push false teachings. Life, even according to Christ, is to be full of wonderous revelations and knowledge. Not the closed-off, guilt-ridden ,shaming of all but the leaders. You Can lead yourselves, Do not follow, unless you konw where you are going. Do not restrain yourself, but rather Free yourself from these evil… Read more »
Murmuring? Well I think you are straining at a gnat. When my two year old daughter has bruises across her backside in straight lines from the babysitter using her fiberglass rod on my child without my knowledge or permission saying Merie said use the rod. (The baby sitter was a long time member of the SCOC sitting at Merie's feet and having one of Meries bibles)I have had to overcome the camel of wanting to go to her house and do her some harm. The attempt to stifle dissent with the false accusation of "murmuring" is easily seen through. Just… Read more »
PHX Anon. 100% with you. Such a shame children were abused and these members were not arrested. Sweep it under the rug and hide it. Abuse continues in this cult in the form of damaging and destroying families as well. Merie’s ways go on. So proud lol you leaders must be.
I was always amazed at the silence at certain ones egregious behavior and the outrage at others simple actions; one was ignored and the others made into a mountain; certainly a double standard. I watched as one member committed felony child abuse and nothing was said no reproof, no rebuke, nothing said at all his wife at the time being one of the teachers in the Phoenix congregation and if I was on time for personal work it was said "you were almost late!" Another time I was with the Volkswagen mechanic and the tow truck preacher when the Volkswagen… Read more »
Anne Nonamous 8:16 – you said: "I wonder if this complete blog is then murmuring?" M Long, Debby, and PHX addressed this a little, but I just want to add that "murmuring" as Stanton uses that word is purely a cult usage, not a Biblical or normal English usage of the word. All cults develop their own idiosyncrasies of language, and Stanton in particular uses their unbiblical definition of murmuring as a smoke shield to obscure blatantly false teachings and the teachers who promote them. There is no injunction against speaking out against falst and destructive teachings in the church.… Read more »
If I were to ask the teachers/preachers in the SCOC I believe they would say the same thing. So it appears to me it is a matter of how things are perceived. The SCOC certainly wouldn't judge the conversations they have about certain Christians as destructive but rather as constructive. i.e. to clear the church of masturbation, fornication, sowing seeds of discord within the brotherhood and a host of other transgresions they consider a threat to their own spiritual clearity. So. I believe it is one of those comparisons that is equal on either end of the spectrum. Either both… Read more »
Anne Nonamous If the teachers are silent on adultery and fornication as the preacher from Albuquerque was? If the person sowing discord is the teaching preacher as the preacher from Albuquerque was doing after the tow truck preacher left to start Prescott? If the leader is personifying Satan in his behavior is it not become a church of Satan? How easily an oppressed church will follow a wicked man is sad, but it happened in Phoenix. Am I murmuring because I point out repeatedly that the Church of Christ in Phoenix is off? Am I to sit in silence as… Read more »
Thank you @anon 4:02 and craig for your insight that helped me understand a little more throughout my years trapped in the cult I saw several preachers sat down and never really understood why but I was a child and teenager back then so I wasn't allowed to sit through a lot of things such as mayweek discussions withdrawls and other things brought up. When it came to that stuff we could sit through the beginning and then were always broken off into our childrens class rankings (we had small kids middle kids and teens classes here) and the adults… Read more »
RJ you were lucky. The kids in SA were never sent to classes cuz all the adults have to be present to agree on a withdrawal. Unfortunately they'd have to hear all the dirty details and confessions too. As has been stated before they are introducing kids to a lot of topics they don't need to hear about.
RJ you hit on a topic that members have been wondering about for a very long time! I remember a preacher in Minnesota was not only sat down but also withdrawn from. What was his offense? HE FOLLOWED THE COUNSEL OF DWC!At that time she was in power, along with the two evangelists! He was calling her for counsel because she had lived and was a teacher in Des Moines for years. She also counselled the Minnesota congregation because they met monthly for meetings. So when she moved, the preacher/teacher in Minnesota just continued to counsel with her about the… Read more »
@M Long we werent always sent out I remember several very aggressive and honestly scary withdrawls happening one of them used to comment on this blog actually and I could see right through all his lies and it made me mad honestly that he was recieving sympathy from people because he was not a good man and I dont believe any of us kids should have been there for his withdrawls as he literally was dangerous the police were involved several times and classes were actually moved because of threats he made to literally bomb the church and things it… Read more »
RJ, I didn't know the preacher and teacher in Minnesota, so I don't know how they were with the other folks there in that congregation. I just thought that his withdrawal was unwarranted. If the counsel he was receiving wasn't right, they should have addressed it with the person who was giving out the counsel! But instead, they withdrew from him. But that was also the same time that the teacher and preacher in Pensacola were in trouble-she was sat down and he was withdrawn from. They were raised up to be teacher and preacher while they were in Iowa… Read more »
Effective, not affective! sorry about that!
I know the current main preacher and teacher in minnesota they were here in erie for 14 years is what i meant although I did meet the others also and the currents ones were sent to help from erie when the one you're reffering too was sat down. I also knew DWC her sister is still here in Erie and DWC was also here when my mom first joined. I was very small back then maybe 3-4 but I do remember not liking her and then she moved not very long after she was actually one of the ones who… Read more »
There are power struggles within the SCOC for sure. Which leader you align yourself with determines your success or failure and not your faith in Jesus Christ. If you follow the self called control freak in Spring Valley you will find success I know that from past experience. Different congregations have different personalities Portland OR is known for gossiping, Phoenix is known for implacable and unmerciful members; both are reflections of their respective leaders. Phoenix produced one implacable member after another which resulted in child abuse being commonplace in bible classes and babysitting, it was dangerous to be a child… Read more »
I think it so interesting Portland was known for gossiping. I never heard any gossip from my family when they were in the church. Actually they were very quiet about what was going on in the church
unless I would ask a specific question such as is anyone getting married or when talking about graduation parties. No gossip. I would ask my son or daughter In law about a scripture or something like that which is certainly not gossip in my mind. Oh if only they were all in a healthy church. We continue to pray for them every night.
Jo the gossip is not outside to others but rather amongst each other. I only knew a couple ladies who didn't gossip. It's quite an admirable trait in anyone not to participate.
M Long- Yet you do it all the time
Anon 533 you sound awfully bitter for someone who's hiding their identity because you're not supposed to be on here. And most of the gossip that was passed to me was through my ex husband who is now 34 years in. So that says a lot about people who are there long term.
Of everyone here talking about this topic you decided to address me. What a weakling you are to hide and accuse.
M Long: Why isn't anon 533 supposed to be on here? Because he remains anonymous? I hope you didn't mean that so I'll just hold there. Anonymous is a place that protects many from abuse.
Anne Nonamous: What M. Long means is that if Anon 5:33 is in Merie's group, they aren't suppose to be on here, according to the group's own teachings.
Anne I'm curious. From your perspective, what kind of abuse is staying anonymous shielding people from?
Oh, right you are Debbie. I have heard that as well. M Long. Mixed with the innocent here there are also those who are wolves in sheeps clothing. Some they will not rend others they will shred without mercy.
Anne I know exactly what you mean! I met the biggest wolf in sheep's clothing and he was a product of Merie's church! My ex, who is 10 yrs older than me and was already a member when I met him during my last year of college, was just that. He had his large family already, and hiding another kid with another woman (and he and his whole family knew it and no one told me) . I got stuck with that one, paying child support to 2 other homes and then later when he took us all back with… Read more »
The behaviors exhibited by the SCOC are similar to other group that believe in their own superiority. There are white supremacist, black supremacists, native American supremacists, and there are also religious supremacists. The Pharisee's in the four gospels were examples of religious supremacists. A supremacist see's all others as inferior in one way or another, somehow they truly believe in their own supremacy. Christ was hated by the supremacists for proving their beliefs about themselves as untrue as many ex members will be hated by the religious supremacists within the SCOC as we expose their true nature as just men… Read more »
Jo. Lots of gossiping in the Portland congregation. Led by the main preacher himself. Poor example he is.
The preacher in Portland was good about talking about you to another person and then turning around and talking to that same person about you.. I even called him out on it one day.. Course he didn't like that much LOL
That should have said talking to me about someone then turning around and talking to that person about me
If there is child abuse in Phoenix why doesn’t someone (the parents) or some adult report it to the authorities or CPS and get out of there. It is only common sense. It is like the members are under some sort of spell.
Jo the felony child abuse was hidden for a time by the preacher from Albuquerque but the man's wife who was a teacher in the Phoenix congregation, at the time, went around telling the other women in the congregation what her husband had done and that their husbands were just as bad as her husband, (which was not true, only one man committed felony child abuse.) I did leave the group and my wife and children followed. This all happened 1998-2002 time frame. The point of my post is not so much the child abuse that occurred at the hands… Read more »
Are you saying the tow truck driver is the one who was hitting his kids?
And his wife was the one telling others that the husband's where just as bad? Or another preacher. Sorry I'm confused
The Penzoil truck driver was the felony child abuser, (among other aggressive behaviors he exhibited like extortion, screaming at his coworkers in the warehouse were he worked, and more) and his wife, a teacher at the time, was the one going around the church telling the other women that their husbands were as bad as hers. I never saw the tow truck physically abuse any child, what I saw was his constant verbal and emotional abuse of others and after he left those that had been oppressed and abused by the tow truck preacher took it to the next step… Read more »
What a sick dysfunctional mess that should be exposed and shut down. This is no way a church or churches. They prey on the vulnerable and ignorant and the parents are leading the children
astray by insisting they attend. No wonder they are 18 they leave and have had body shaming all those years.
I'm not really sure what to say. Some of that is true but alot of it is not. I say this from experience. Being with this "tow truck driver " DS for over 18 years yes he had an anger proublem. He was harsh and rash at times but never once did he hit one of his own in the face and brag about it. And as for his wife also a D.S she is very soft spoken and if she was going around telling people there husband's where worse, she was being told to say that. He didn't know… Read more »
Anon 9:48. 99% of people on here are doing exactly what we are accusing the Stanton church for doing? Can you give examples what you are referring too?
Murmuring and gossiping.
I don't have time right now to go back and read ever posttobpoint out what I know to be lies or exaggerated. But I did say a few in my post above about the tow truck driver. Looks like people just come here to vent about stuff they think happened. And that makes us no better then them. People telling there story is awesome I read those and they it's like they feel more sorry and are praying for the ones lost. But others just come on here and accuse people of stuff… That would be fine if people where… Read more »
Sorry forgot to proof read that I don't have time right now to go back and read ever post to point out what I know to be lies or exaggerated. But I did say a few in my post above about the tow truck driver. Looks like people just come here to vent about stuff they think happened. And that makes us no better than them. People telling their story is awesome I read those, and it's like they feel more sorry and are praying for the ones lost. But others just come on here and accuse people of stuff…… Read more »
Anonymous 7:18: Right you are. I agree with you 100%. I too know DS and his wife and worked with them. Most of what has been written about them is not true. Neither is the child abuse. The person writing these things must be very bitter.
Then I'm sure we know each other! �� Thank you!
Concerned so the one who has brought out something’s concerning DS you say must be very bitter and that most that has been written about them is not true which would mean they are lies. What about them is true that you know that has been written. You say you agree with anon 9:48 100% which means you to believe 99% of people on here are doing exactly what we’re accusing the Stanton church of doing. Hmm really 99%? Everything I have written is facts and truth. Do you know me? Anon 7:08 I call it exposing the scoc for… Read more »
It's a figure of speech such as me saying "99% of it's not true". If you want to say your the 1% then that might be true. Do you know DS where you ever under him. From what I have read you haven't said anything about him.(but I haven't read it all) Me being under him for years and knowing him for so long I know that 99% of what is said about him is not true… Only true stuff I'd say is that he was rash and made bad decisions at times. Haven't we all? There is a reason… Read more »
Anon 1:03. My experiences with DS and DS were great. Stayed at the same house at a couple two or three May meetings. I do know his opinion was taught once too me that the Portland preacher didn’t necessarily agree with. Many negative things have been written about him and if true would be disgusting to me. The opinion that a large forehead means you’re homosexual. Who did that come from. Also my experience in Portland with the preacher I was under there were ugly things done and said by him. I know this for a fact. Now others may… Read more »
That's impossible. If i said why it would make me no longer anonymous. But I know those things are lies about DS.
Anon 10:06 okay I understand wasn’t thinking about that.
Agreed that people have different experiences with some of the leaders. Also maybe the experience was long ago and that person no longer does that. Interesting that DS has been said on here to be rash and angry. And it goes back to Kevin's and many others argument here who say these people should not be in positions to tell others how to live their lives. They are not above reproach and shouldn't be dictating rules to others.And I also heard John n Tracy were withdrawn from for watching Passion of the Christ. Ridiculous once you know the whole story.… Read more »
You misunderstand D'S did not drive for Pennzoil. It was another man and his wife was a teacher.
this whole blog just seems like one big gossip hotspot against the church.
Once again the topic needs to be changed. Appears people are moving on with their lives since leaving and have little time to post on the blog……or perhaps the church is fading away? That would be good news,
Anon 8:56. That church taught everyone what gossip is about. I just call it exposing them. Portland congregation led by their only preacher is a hotspot for gossip. This I know. It’s a fact.
For me the difference between a church of Christ and a church of Satan is criminality. When a religion starts breaking the laws of the land it is time to declare it dead and go forth and preach the gospel on one's own. Extortion is a crime, bribery is a crime, stalking is a crime, so too is child abuse and the covering up of child abuse is called obstruction of justice. When a church resorts to criminal methods to monitor and control its members it is time to get out.
Anon 2:32 fact child abuse was swept under the rug by saying that meaning proper authorities were not notified In Portland. This was done under the current preacher as well. Under all the current leadership also. Truth and a fact. Not gossip either. He don’t like me saying it he knows where I live.
This blog is not dead just the SCOC is more covert. After my last post my adult daughters Facebook page got many visitors from current SCOC members, I do not Facebook myself, Facebook is for old people, I use snail mail. The SCOC likes to dominate and control all others but I refuse to be intimidated.
Popping in to say hello! Our bible study was on kindness Monday and also how to share the word with non believers. I think that would be a good discussion for the blog? Any takers? If interested I can post a couple of questions for your feedback and get a discussion and the focus of the blog would be on something positive while at the same time learning something. Remember God is always good!
Hi Jo. I'll bite. This Sunday we talked about heaven and who gets to go. We don't know who that is and the sign outside a building will not determine it. Only God knows who His children are. I am glad to have left the thinking that there are only a few hundred right now who could go to heaven. There's Christians all over the world and I am thankful for those missionaries who risk their lives to make sure there are. I truly enjoy seeing photos of people being baptized even in 3rd world countries, in rivers. That is… Read more »
i'LL BITE TOO, "only God knows who his children are"…so true. They heard the gospel, believed the gospel, repented of their sins and were baptized for the remission of their sins…right? And God added them to the church, right. To the church you now go to and its sister congregations, the CoC, right. Not the SCOC, right. Missionaries for the CoC, right?
Lukewarm Christians aren't going to heaven. That's a kindness to say.
James 4:10 – Humble yourselves in the sight of the lord, and he shall lift you up.
11 – Speak not evil of one another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 – There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
Anon 3:42 your point with sharing those scriptures is?
He must be referring to Merie Weiss and now GP and the other leaders of the cult. It's a big gossip group.
I'm not part of the SCOC or defending them. My comment was made in response to Monte Cristo and the anon 6:41 because it seemed like they were referring to the original posters comment as them being lukewarm. It didn't seem like Jo or M long said anything wrong that I could see.
If those comments were aimed at the SCOC then my apologies. Disregard and carry on.
Anon 7:02 thank you
Anon at 7:02, the lukewarm Christians, like you, are the real problem. You viciously fight to keep the church a lukewarm mess. It's what you like. Stanton goes too far with the law, but they are a fraction of American Christianity. The real problem is the lukewarm, where 90% of Christians know their hellivisions more than their Bibles.
Only God knows our hearts and relationship with Him. Someone who appears lukewarm to you may be more Godly than you think you know. The rules this cult puts together are for the most part man made and taken out of context with the Bible. I am surprised you are allowed to go to the bathroom without a note from your leaders.
Very well said.. It honestly is almost that bad.. Some kids used to be watched going to the bathroom to a certain extent… Not sure if they still are.. Lol.. It's nuts . And being in the church is exactly like a child, as you have to basically ask permission for most everything you do.. What a life
Red Herring arguments are deceptive in that they distract from the more important topics trying to be discussed. Luke warm, hellivision, abortions are all red herring arguments meant to attract attention to the poster but mean nothing. For a man who knows how to boil water with nuclear power one would expect a more reasoned posting. Start with one scripture give the context then give the application and lead others toward a loving relationship with Go, which is called spirituality. I guess the insurance business is slow again and facebook got boring again so its back to the SCOC blog… Read more »
I probably should have explained my reasoning instead of just giving scripture but thought it would be enough. Again, my apologies if you misunderstood. It seems other commenters have made my point for me though. That being said, may I ask what exactly made my comments or any of theirs seem like they are lukewarm? Like the others said you seem to be missing the point. People need to come together and reason with each other as to why some of the things this church teaches are wrong. Personally attacking people isn't helpful and people aren't going to take anyone… Read more »
Edit *it says our lives are but a vapour* sorry for typo.
I have to take exception to your comment that no one is going to take us seriously. In any organzation loyalty to superiors is a requirement for retaining membership and for promotion within the group; with that for a foundation of reasoning then I have to ask what is one to do when your superior is evil, do you still show loyalty to that leader? I have spoken out against abusive leaders within the group and have been taken seriously and though I be an apostate the abusive leaders have been sat down, or withdrawn from, or have left the… Read more »
My comment you are replying to already agrees with you. Most of my posts have been parroting the same things you're saying. I've been posting videos and links trying to help people get more information and encouraging people to speak out either here or in the congregations directly. We already agree on that. My comment about not being taken seriously was referring to those who come on the blog just to antagonize and attack the SCOC. People who might still be bitter or have a personal vendetta against specific individuals. I wasn't talking about the people actually contributing with well… Read more »
Well said, Anon 8:41. I do agree that some of the times we've gone off on comments isn't the best thing for others popping in. I definitely felt this place gave me a sense of relief that I was one of many who had doubts about all that was going on in Merie's church and being bothered so much by questionable use of scriptures to defend rules that are not in the bible. Thanks for the videos you have posted, I have watched them.
To AnonymousJuly 28, 2018 at 3:10 PM,Yours is the typical response of the 'judge not' lukewarm Christian. We have the Bible and it's pretty clear what's right and wrong. Only to those who don't study it and apply it is it muddled and confused. Also, I'd advise you to learn the history of Christianity since Martin Luther, as the great Protestant churches since then had rules. Maybe move to China, the world's biggest atheist nation and stop pretending to be a Christian. You are a fraud. Last I checked, the Bible talks about those who love Jesus obey his commands.… Read more »
AnonymousJuly 28, 2018 at 7:41 PM Please make use of your local library. Your silly logical fallacy assertions ignore that you are ahistorical and don't understand the history of the church or America very well. I'm surprised you are taking a break from complaining about the 'tow truck preacher'. Lukewarm and abortion are things that God hates, and even atheists know the Hellivision is the worst communication medium in human history. https://www.amazon.com/Plug-Drug-Television-Computers-Family/dp/0142001082 Yes, and if you read my news site, Messanonews.com, you'll be better informed after three months, than the biggest business in America, student debt at $1.4 trillion. College… Read more »
AnonymousJuly 28, 2018 at 11:43 PM Indignation at the sorry state of the American church is warranted. The leaders and those who hold them up are going to get a serious dose of God's wrath if they don't change, so I'd quit attacking the messenger and worry about the message if I were you.'No man is hated more than he who tells the truth'Plato Stanton is closer to the early American church than anything today, and you are bothering about their issues? Seems your priorities are misplaced. People haven't historically liked the truth. Please learn American history. The Founders knew… Read more »
AnonymousJuly 31, 2018 at 7:17 AM
Somewhat agree, except the Prodigal Son would fit your definition of a pervert, and God doesn't agree with your treatment.
I am curious to know, Monte Cristo, why you don't obey the rules of the church. If you did you wouldn't be marked and avoided for breaking the rule of disagreeing with your teachers; you wouldn't be reading this site; you wouldn't be attending classes or May meetings when you are clearly instructed not to by the rule makers. Last time I checked Jesus didn't command women to wear nylons on Sunday, or men to wear a tie to serve the Lord's table. He didn't set forth rules of travel, rules of social media use, rules for recreation, rules for… Read more »
AnonymousJuly 31, 2018 at 8:41 AM Well said, and I've been saying this since I first got on the Stanton FB site in July of 2013. Blasting the entire church for being bad is a huge problem. They have far more good than bad, and are far better than over 90% of the Christian church in America. So to excoriate them as if they are this bad group of people and a cult is total nonsense. Many of us on here would not have even been born if it wasn't for Stanton. As the eldest of 18, at least 15… Read more »
Monte Cristo, do you consider the Jehovah Witness religion a cult?
AnonymousAugust 2, 2018 at 5:44 PM I am curious to know why you are opining on my situation when you know nothing of the circumstances surrounding it. Do me a favor. Find out the exact sentence I said that got me withdrawn from and excommunicated. Don't rely on hearsay. Also, go find out from credible witnesses who were present exactly what happened that fateful Sunday morning and evening class of September 21st, 2008. Also, find out the details of the excommunication of August 1st, 2012, and why exactly a half hour later, an insurance company was sold to me for… Read more »
AnonymousAugust 2, 2018 at 6:23 PM
Yes, JW's are a cult, so are Mormon's, and SDA's.
All have leaders who departed from scripture and clear departures from the KJV. Yet, they are some of the fastest growing Christian sects in America.
Love you to death Ryan! Your use of cliche's really impresses me, redundancy at it's best! Christianity existed for 1776 years before the founding of this country and will be around long after the USA collapses under it's own debt. Your nationalist view points will do you no good on judgement day because God is no respecter of persons, or nationalities. I don't post about the tow truck preacher because he has repented. Please get some new material your insults are getting old. I was really hoping to read about you refering to yourself some more, narcissist's love talking about… Read more »
Ryan, I absolutely have to say amen to the truth of your statements. I was in the church since 1973 and very much involved. Everything you say in the truth and very humbly stated. It is not a cult. It speaks the truth and condemns sin. It is far from perfect, I will admit. But I view it without bitterness or vengeance. It is the only way you can judge with equity. If you are trying to destroy it, as you say, woe be unto you.
Concerned, how do you define a cult?
AnonymousAugust 2, 2018 at 10:29 PM Your actions speak so loudly that I can't hear what you are saying. Love doesn't involve lying, evil surmising, puffing itself up, speaking without consideration, or racial distinctions. Yet that is what you engage in yet claim to love others. It seems you have a strange definition of love. Please list any cliché's I've said. It's funny you accuse me of cliché's, yet you brazenly repeat psychiatry's silly cliché's like they are gospel. Once again, please don't talk about American history when you obviously never bothered to study it. How about you seriously read… Read more »
Thank you, Concerned:). 1973!? Wow! That means you probably knew me and many of my friends when we were twinkles in our father's eyes:).
It certainly is not a cult. Though many on this site, who were never involved heavily with it, will take the Marxist approach and call anything Christian a 'cult'.
You have a wonderful attitude. If only more had the same one, it would go a long way in healing themselves and Stanton.
Monte cristo 8/2/18 @5:18 you ask me to name the nine supreme court justices when currently there are only eight due to the reyirement of justice Kennedy. In your attempt to prove me ignorant you prove yourself ignorant.
There is a prospective one, LOL. You are very good at straining at gnats and swallowing camels. At least you know about Kennedy's retirement, that's saying something. If you knew it that well, you would have named all eight, Kennedy, and his prospective replacement that is awaiting Senate confirmation.
Thank you Ryan for your response. The difference between psychiatry and psychology is that psychiatrists use drugs to correct "chemical imbalances" and psychologists use psychotherapy. This USA is not the USA of the 1700's and early 1800's the government of Washington and Adams and Jefferson went away after many decades ago in favor of an all powerful, all knowing, and all spending federal provider. You are comparing apples and oranges when you bring up the founding fathers and imply it is still the government we have today. Repentence is a sign of sincerity and only the sincere in Christ are… Read more »
Ryan, I was at the airport when your father, with a backpack on, recited a poem he wrote he was so excited to be a young Christian. He wasn't married to your mom as yet. We all stopped our talking, there were about 25 of us there to be with him, and listened to his heart. Still a sweet memory for me.
Wonderful memory, Concerned, thank you for sharing.
I'm not looking to be attacked here but I'm just wondering does anyone know the churches view on transgender people?
When I was a member any form of homosexuality was deemed reprobate and beyond any salvation. Then one day the evanghelist from Spring Valley gave a talk about converting one homosexual and it was acceptable after that to try and convert the homosexuals. There was a transgendered individual in the 70's? who was a member and baptized as a woman but went back to being a man and the church was ordered by Merie to "Not be shocked" and the individual was allowed to remain and did for a time. Later after the transgendred individual left it was reported that… Read more »
Curious, they would view transgender people as in there sin. Born a male, die a male. Born a female, die a female. Homosexuality as sin too. They will never change there views on such as its crystal clear in the Bible.
Anon 7:56. A transgender and homosexual person would have to repent before being baptized in the cult.
Monte Cristo, agree with the three cults listed above. But Merie as well did the same to begin her cult. Just the fact she did not honor her withdrawal. Oh and had her part in instructing a father with tying his child to bedposts to keep him from masturbation. Nothing but torture. She and her cronies who practiced that should’ve been jailed and her cult exposed back than. No church is perfect and Merie’s cult is far from it. To claim they are the one and only true church is a complete joke.
Thank you, Craig. Merie severely opposed that harsh treatment for masturbation. My mother told me Merie was aghast when she learned of it, and took strong measures to get rid of it before she passed away in 1980. When she passed away, other teachers like HC, and a few others strongly took up the torch against children into masturbation. It's sad, because Stanton was 100% right that masturbation is a sin, but they tried to overcome it with the wrong methods and the cure was often worse than the disease. Creating boys who think they have lost their minds, and… Read more »
You’re welcome Ryan, comments were made that Merie actually gave instructions and was in the room of a child who’s father was tying him to bedposts. So she did have her part in that cruel practice. The commenter was the one it was done too. I’d like to hear your reasons Ryan why you won’t label Merie’s cult as a cult. Thank’s Ryan.
I highly doubt that happened, Craig. I heard Merie's tapes and she came across strongly, but she did love children, and she never would have approved of the barbaric practices that were done on kids. Her teachings opposing masturbation were misconstrued. I know of one female teacher who had a copy of Kellogg's, 'Plain Facts for Old and Young'. Believe it or not, she was in your congregation, Craig. She gave it to me when I was in my twenties. It was pretty riveting stuff. However, the diagnosis was very severe. At worst, Stanton can be called severe and harsh… Read more »
Ryan, thank you my friend for sharing your opinion. I don’t argue Merie’s cult has great values as you stated and will never yield especially to the four above that you mentioned. Yet far from perfect they are and you’ve shared where you rightly disagree with them. Christ’s Church would not be severe and harsh period. We all know where the issue is . Leadership of the cult.
You're welcome, Craig. A fair judge evaluates the good and bad of a case before deciding. When Stanton is evaluated on here, we often hear of appeal to anecdote fallacies where a few instances are mentioned and the entire church is blamed for the actions of individuals who were never representative of Stanton and were disavowed by them.
Personally, I appreciate the severity of Stanton more than the leniency of the church at large.
Without discipline, no organization can grow and prosper.
Anon 2:07 great points, however, myself and others are merely exposing the cult for what it is. With that instances of evil of this proclaimed one and only true church is mentioned. Do you Anon 2:07 believe that as well? Kevin and this blog has clearly exposed them at best as just another cult who are off. Yes many wonderful members and teachings but the same can be said with Mormons and JW’s as well. James 2:10 which Merie’s cult uses against other religions would have to apply it to themselves as well. But they are to arrogant to see… Read more »
You know, it amazes me how many people will defend Merie and her cult despite all the things she did to destroy people. Sure she taught some things about porn, masturbation, adultery, etc. So do the Jehovahs Witnesses and the Mormons and hundreds upon hundreds of little cults that are in the US and all around the world. You think Merie is so unique and her church too. You're all blind. There are so many churches who teach on sin rightly and also teach THE BIG LIE that they are the only ones going to heaven, and you can't go… Read more »