The underlying assumption made by a legalistic theology (approach to understanding God), or more accurately, hermeneutic (approach to interpreting the Bible), is that God wants his children to be law-keepers, and the Bible is his law book. Neither can be further from the truth.
That is not to say I am antinomian (against law) or lawless, nor am I afraid of absolutes. I have not fallen prey to the shifting sands of moral relativism in the slightest. I will confess that I am very much afraid of imposing an absolute that God hasn’t, however, because that is adding to the Word, and speaking where it is silent.
My understanding of the Bible soared and it became a joy to read when I came to realize that it was not a law book to be dissected, cross-referenced, and argued like a book of legal regulations. The Scriptures, when properly understood, bring life and hope. They are not proof-texts for pre-packaged arguments, they are writings written in a certain place and time for a certain purpose. Outside of that place and time and purpose, we have to use the brain and the Spirit God gave us to make the appropriate applications to our lives.
A little thought-experiment for you
For those of you who are skeptical of my claim that God is not most concerned with rule-keeping, and think I may have fallen prey to a feel-good doctrine from the “religious world,” let’s try a little thought-experiment.
Let’s say your kids dutifully recorded written notes of every conversation you’d ever had with them, and had the ability to search through those conversations. One child compiled a concordance to use for such an exercise. Another one entered it all into his computer to make it easier to search your words. Your kids could pull up any previous conversation, even assembling snippets from many conversations you’d had with them or with family and friends over the years, at different stages of their lives.
They could also annotate those conversations with their own notes and cross references, assembling them into an argument for or against anything. By applying good logic of “command, example, and necessary inference,” they could dissect your words and shred their true meaning to pieces.
It turns the tables on legalism when you are suddenly faced with your own words being interpreted by a bunch of lawyers, doesn’t it? Do you see the train wreck of miscommunication that would result? You think your kids can “lawyer up” and twist your words now, just wait until they try this approach to understanding and obeying you.
The meaning imparted in your words, and the intent behind them, and the context of them, would be virtually lost. Your kids could have the most sincere desire to “understand your will,” but if they honestly thought that this methodology for “understanding your will” was what you wanted, wouldn’t you be shaking your head and shedding a tear saying “no, guys, you’re missing my point entirely!”
Your kids could follow all your “commands” dutifully, including the time you “commanded” the potty training little sibling to flush the toilet every time she left the bathroom. If the older siblings took from that that they need to flush the toilet every time they exited the bathroom, even if it was just to retrieve a piece of paper they left there, you’d think that was ludicrous, wouldn’t you?
On the other hand, another one of your children may have a heart that seeks to please you, although she messes up understanding some of your instructions from time to time. She really attempts to know your heart, and lovingly comes alongside her siblings who don’t yet “get it,” trying to help them “get you.” Yet her siblings castigate her for not following all of their parents “commands” as diligently as the others think they are–like flushing the toilet every time they leave the bathroom, whether it needs it or not.
Your legalist “command-following” children would want to apply all of your words consistently in all circumstances to all the kids, when you intended no such thing. How many parents have experienced the reality that one instruction was intended for one particular child, but another child doesn’t need it because they’re in a different place in maturity? “But you told Sally she could ____.” That’s what you hear from the legalists, right?
But this is where the heart comes in, doesn’t it? I may have a rule of “absolutely no secular music artists on the iPod” for a child who struggles with discernment and self-control. Yet I may not impose that rule on another child because I know she would never select songs for her iPod that had immoral messages. Am I inconsistent? Absolutely! Do I want my kids to argue with each other and iron out that inconsistency between themselves? Of course not. I want them to apply what they know and understand in their own lives. They are misinterpreting my words when they try to apply them like laws to their siblings who are at much different maturity levels, and in ways I never intended. This was the Pharisees’ greatest mistake, wasn’t it?
This thought experiment shows that the heart is really the heart of the matter. Under the New Covenant, God said he was going to write his laws in our hearts and in our minds:
Jeremiah 31:33 – “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.”
This is confirmed in the New Covenant scriptures in Hebrews:
Hebrews 8:7-13– For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:
The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 9 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 11 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
So what is the big difference between the Old Covenant and the New? Is it just a new set of books to be added to our Bible so we can continue arguing legal precedents? Did Jesus suffer and die on the cross so that we could finally grasp the “deep things of God,” i.e., new regulations about red lipstick, wearing nylons on Sunday, and other dress codes? God forbid! He died to get rid of the Old Covenant and its form of bondage:
Romans 2:27-29 – The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker. 28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
There is a fundamental shift in the two covenants, from one where righteousness was measured by law-keeping, to one where righteousness is measured by conformity with the heart of God. The Old Covenant of legal codes and regulations was nailed to the cross:
Colossians 2:14 – Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Words, like laws, are imperfect vehicles of our thoughts and intents. They can’t be understood properly without understanding the context in which they were said, and the spirit in which they were meant. That goes for me communicating to my kids, and God communicating to his.
As Christians, we are not expected to be good lawyers to figure out God’s will, with advanced understandings of logic and argumentation, nor do we need a perfect knowledge of the Bible in order to accept the gospel and respond to it. We just need to get our heart in tune with His. Yes, that starts with reading his Word. But how we approach the reading of the Word can make the difference between being a really good lawyer, and a man or woman after God’s own heart.
You have given us bits and pieces of this illustration about God's love for us through your blog posts and in different comments. I think this blog post completely illustrates the big picture. I could feel myself saying "no, no, no, that's not what I want as a parent! That isn't how I want my kids to portray my words as my love for them" Thank you for helping us to see the comparison, for flipping the tables on legalism. You are a gifted author. I also saw the "works" here. Using the flushing example; What if one of your… Read more »
YES Mckenzie! Thanks for completing the analogy so nicely! Do I want my kids to "do" what I want them to do? Of course. But no amount of "doing" on their part changes my love or approval of them. They have my love unconditionally, and the only thing that affects my approval of them is if their heart is in the right place when they are trying to "do" what I ask. I'm pretty gracious when they fail as long as I know they are wanting to please me. In fact, it still melts this daddy's heart when they try… Read more »
Lord's Supper Rules: 1.) The person speaking the Lord's supper part(s) must give thanks and ask for the blessing. If the thanks or blessing are not included, the supper is not acceptable and must be stopped. The prayer must be said again, correctly, prior to anyone taking the bread and grape juice. 2.) When breaking the bread, only one break is acceptable. 3.) Communion is a "closed communion." The server must know who are members of the sect, and refuse service to any non-members and disfellowshipped individuals. If an off-church member baptized prior to 1975 is present, he/she may be… Read more »
Wow, we're discovering more chapters every day from long lost manuscripts of the book of 2 Opinions.
1 John 1:8 (KJV) 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I always wondered about their assertion that they essentially were sinless when taking the Lord's supper or leading prayer…hmmmm… their assertion minimally contradicts what the Holy Spirit says in the Word.
I am Anonymous.I am Anonymous.I am Anonymous. But why? Because in my heart, I cannot separate myself from the profound impulse, they will find a way to sully my reputation. They will talk about me. They'll take me into a back room to accuse me. They will condemn me. They wil criticize me, taking me back in time to remember my "sins" from years past. They will bully me. They will present a record, a litany of past faults. I am anonymous. They can no longer hurt me or my family while holding me hostage to their list of rules… Read more »
Well the path of truth is not an easy one, and pain is often an excellent teacher.
Anon 4:06 – Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm stunned and saddened by it that all this destruction of families is done in the name of God. That makes it 100 times worse than unbelievers who tear their families apart by rejecting God.
Anon 4:06- I also am in a situation to remain anonymous. I am on the 'outside' looking in but I finally overcame the notion that 'when you leave the church (Stanton) you walk away from God. My ONLY regret I have is not leaving those man-made teachings 30-some years earlier. I have recently worshipped with a local COC and wept tears of joy at singing praises to our Great God with a pure understanding.
@Anon2:58 I'm really happy for you. God is alive and well outside of Stanton, and to think otherwise is to put the God who created the universe into a box of our own making. Pretty prideful. I think it's idolatry.
Kevin, what you have written here is so enlightening, I wish I would have understood the difference of the covenants from the beginning of my Christianity! Anon 4:06 and 2:58 – I am happy for both of you. I too must remain Anonymous.
Anon 9 14, 2013, or anybody else reading this. Don't ever be afraid of standing up for truth. I have also been in your shoes. The preacher from the south really didn't like when I was opposing some things he was teaching. (if anybody wants to know what it was, just tell me.) I know what he was teaching was unscriptural and very damaging to our children. I'm not advocating opposing teaching in public, but am saying that when we hear something being taught incorrectly or unscriptural that we just don't sit there and take it. If we don't stand… Read more »
Yes, Lynn what teaching were you against teaching for your kids sake?
I would also like to know the teaching you speak of above. Lynn, have you found a body of believers you worship with?
It was asked that if a Christian came to you and said they saw a child of yours do something wrong would you punish them for it if your child said they did not do it. Also, if you decided not to punish your child in the form of spanking, yet the Christian said they warranted it, would you do it? It was said that if we spank our children for things that they did not do it was akin to this scripture and would prepare them for when they become Christians. 1 Peter 2:20 For what glory is it,… Read more »
Amen Lynn, echo your sentiments entirely. I told the church I would rather be withdrawn from for fifty years resisting an unscriptural teaching, than in fellowship for one minute, accepting it. One of the evangelists is firmly convinced that if something is unscriptural it is better to go along with it, so you agree with the church. He actually unscripturally withdrew from a Christian, because he wanted to agree with the church, then attended the May trip and changed the teaching. I don't know of a better definition of cowardice than to do something, directly opposed to scripture, and I'm… Read more »
Sorry to hear that ML. The gall it takes for people to demand punishment and/or repentance over something they don't know fully about. What is more important, being able to correct somebody or to treat the people of Gad and their children with respect and kindness? Luke 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! To do these things to people is offensive. Don't be so quick to catch another Christian in a sin. Entreat each other. Always remember that God is watching and everything… Read more »
Lynn, my Husband and I had the same thing happen to us. Another Christian's daughter accused our daughter of faying something. The teachers took it to us, we spoke to our daughter. She denied saying it. Our daughter had never lied to us before, and so we talked with her at length but did not punish her. We were rebuked for it, the teachers stating publically that our daughter deserved to be spanked!About a year later the teachers and us were talking about the incident. A teenager spoke up and said that he knew what happened, and then proceeded to… Read more »
Thank you Debbie. That was my mindset in that it could hurt the child. This also works with adults when half truths and/or wrong information is used for reprimand. I lost a lot of respect for some Christians and most of the preacher/teachers for this. The sad thing is is that they just don't see it. I have even been called from the pulpit for this loss relationship with them.
I look at it as if I can have this type of response and I am an adult, imagine affecting a child. I just can't do that.
Q&A Who/What is the holy spirit? What does it do? I understand the need for Jesus but what is the need for the holy spirit?
Q&A In Matthew 24:15 Christ spoke of the prophecy of Daniel the prophet "when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place flee into the mountains", I was taught that this was the roman army, yet when Christ walk the earth and spoke this warning Israel was occupied by the Roman Army as was the rest of the known world. Should the Jews, at Christ's time, have obeyed him and have fled the city of Jerusalem as he warned? The destruction of Jerusalem happened in A.D. 70 when most of the generation of Christ's day would have… Read more »
I thought about Matthew 24:15 some more and I wonder if many of the Jew looked around and said to themselves "what's he talking about with the Romans? They are all around and nothing bad has happened as yet?" Another scripture that uses the word flee is 1Cor6:18 "flee fornication" yet fornicators and adulterers are all around us and nothing bad seemingly happens to them. I have a man where I work whose girlfriend just found out he has a second girlfriend in Vegas (he drives truck from Phoenix to Vegas and back) and is looking for another place to… Read more »
To give some depth of understanding on the subject of the Christ and the Antichrist: Jesus was the Christ and Satan is the Antichrist. There is also Christians and Antichristians, and now on this blog anti-antichristians. Satan has come in many different forms over the years to tempt and trick God's people. One of Satans forms is the oppressor. Some people love oppression and cooperate with the oppressor and some people hate the oppressor and resist oppression. People who love oppression develop what is known as Stockholm syndrome where they sympathize with and identify with their oppressor. These are the… Read more »
You all are cowards. you all can't deal with your problems so you go gossiping like little children. you all are supposed to be adults so act like it.
Interesting post. You name call (cowards) just like a child and then you call us little children? Hypocritical to say the least. Judging from your post I think we may have touched a nerve? Keep posting it just confirms my belief that the SCOC is run like a cult with knuckle dragging neandethals walking around threating anyone who reproves and exposes their abusive behaviors. I am not intimidated by religious bullies!
Anonymous at 8:58, Although I agree with your thoughts You really can't call out the word coward and post under the name anonymous. Your afraid of something.
When I was in the church I listened to non stop gossiping from the preachers and teachers.. Members also… when they had no clue what they were talking about.. So I really don't know why you're concerned about us gossiping.. It made me sick what I heard them say about people that wasn't true.. That's one of the reasons I left
Concerned, I perhaps should have written it as (i.e. cowards) to clarify what I meant by the others name calling. My experience with the Merie sect was not a pleasant one. From day one the teaching preacher was in my face demanding that I explain why I was five minutes late to one of my first Bible classes, this is intimidation just like I experienced in the military and I should have left right there but was trained to obey authority by the military. In the years I was in I saw more an more "christians" develop into angry and… Read more »
Yes Phoenix. Phoenix is a dark church, no spiritual life and plenty of abuse (very similar to the catholic church i was brought up in.) I use to shop at Cosco but last time I went, there was a woman working there from the Phoenix congregation and my son tells my that when she was babysitting him that she found my son and her son doing something that she did not approve of and she beat my son. I do not shop at Cosco anymore so that I will not run into any of the child abusers from the Phoenix… Read more »
I have called attention to the egregious behaviors of the members of the Phoenix congregation and true to God's word when you put out reproof it comes back to you, unless the individual reproved is scorning your reproof. I bring out the extortion of two men who have the superiority complex and will accept reproof only from the evangelist in Spring Valley, and scorn all others. Wisdom now commands me to reject them for their scorning and refuse to have anything more to do with them. I pray for the rest of the children still left in Phoenix that they… Read more »
Anon. 7:56 I have experienced the DARKNESS you speak about concerning the Phoenix congregation. It is a dark, evil spirit of oppression, control and brainwashing. I have moved away from my home to support family. I was gone from home for over a week, and when I returned there was a darkness that fell over my mind. I could'nt explain it at the time, but later realized it was this darkness that comes from those still actively attending. Regretfully, I was blinded by this darkness while in the cult. Darkness cancels out any love, gentleness, joy, peace,..all the fruits of… Read more »
I have, Donna. My husband and I were speaking just a few weeks ago about this, but we were referring to it in terms of peace. We found that when some from there might come around, they had a negative effect on our lives, on our spiritual and emotional health. It can even affect how I am as a wife and mother. We talked about it a while and he said we miss them but look at how peaceful things have been, and I agreed. We both realized that the peace in our lives is more important than trying to… Read more »
Whoa, Donna! Were you finally able to move?! I can relate to this too. You're right about things being much more peaceful after leaving. No more being around judgemental people who evil surmise about everything and look down on others. No more being around people who are nosy and lack boundaries. No more trying to live up to the ever changing standards and expectations of leaders who were never satisfied with anything you did. No more being treated with a lack of love and lack of compassion for your struggles. And so much more. There was one time that just… Read more »
I was subject to constant survelience by fellow members of my group, and comments from teachers and preachers during bible class about my behavior. When I was single and living alone the preacher would make comments from the pulpit that he did not know me so I moved in with another single man in the church only to have my every waking moment commented on by the preacher. I married in the church and from week one everything that happened in my marriage and home was subject to constant criticism. There is no right to privacy in a totalitarian group.… Read more »
Advocate for Peace
If you haven't read my story, you can see that was my whole demise with my chronic infirmity. They just don't get it. Tacoma praised members who push themselves to get to class regardless of their well-being. It's like winning an attendance award. They considered encouragement as seeing people push themselves to be there, yet when one of the times I visited a CA congregation DS left before fellowship because he had a headache. No continuity. They actually judge righteousness according to attendance. Discounting those who just chose not to come.
I do nt understand. After you married who reported to the preacher about you and your wife? How long did you stay in after all this was happening? Why would anyone put up with this? I attend a much larger church and the teachers and pastors barely know the congregation.
My wife was interrogated on a regular basis about our activities by the female leaders in the congregation. I found that there was no fundamental right to privacy, and I believe the comments mad from the pulpit were made not for edification purposes but to let me know that the leadership was in control of me and my most private parts of my life. My marriage did not last long with a lack of intimacy. No regular religion tries to dominate and control its members like this only a corrupted church, corrupted by evil. Later I found out the people… Read more »
Lynn, I agree wholeheartedly with you concerning attendance. To the teachers it is an indicator of 'how a person is doing, spiritually'. They say that worship is the only time the church is commanded to come together in order to justify women teachers but they absolutely believe that classes are mandatory as well and one sins when missing a class. Children are not allowed to miss classes either. Sickness is the only acceptable excuse for missing a class. A man will not miss a class for his job, even if it's a once-a-year requirement. Never, not even once, will they… Read more »
Anon 8:58 are you a member of Merie’s cult? The cowards are the leadership of Merie’s cult who will not address the comments, questions and concerns many have which are on this blog. Anyways i have attended a church with s former member of the cult. When they left of course their name was slandered by those in the cult. Truth be told about the individual, they left without notice because they saw the darkness of the cult and the false ways of it. One example they gave was the lack of love. I’m sure many leave for the very… Read more »
Welcome back Craig! Arrogance in leadership is very destructive and should be opposed at every opportunity. Many individual lives, marriages, and families have been destroyed by the dominating and controlling behaviors of arrogant leaders. As the arrogant continually seek the feeling of supremecy they miss out on the finer things in Christianity. In proverbs 2:10 Solomon writes that when wisdom enters the heart and knowledge is pleasant to the soul what he is stating is that when you develop feelings for wisdom and knowledge that is the point where you become wise. Wisdom can be personified as a father or… Read more »
Insidious and subtle describe the very same behaviors, that is, something small but very important; especially in the long run. Insidious carries a negative connotation like: an insidious poison, and subtle carries a positive connotation like: a subtle suggestion. The differences between good and evil can be so small that only the most discerning can see them. Oftentimes the difference is only in the heart of he individual and so one must look to the example of Christ being tempted by Satan to understand the importance of refuting and 100 percent rejection of all things Satan, even necessary things. Satan… Read more »
The book of revelations tells of a forecomming apocalypse and many wonder what exactly it all means. In Ecclesiastes 1:9 Solomon tells us that there is nothing new under the sun, and Christ tells us that first is the carnal then second is the spiritual and with that as a foundation or a basis you only have to look at the apocalypse of the Patriarchal age described in the book of Exodus with Moses destroying the Egyptian masters and setting the Hebrews free or with Christ foretelling the apocalypse of the Mosaic age in AD 70 to understand the ending… Read more »
Like that was only the only time that LT had a whore in his room. Don't tell us all your fears about sex. This cult uses it's bizzarre interests in its members sex lives to exert its cruelty upon them. Are you saying that the cult's spiritual leader has a whore in his home , bringing uncleanliness into his life? Yes everyone "sins", but Your bizarre sins may not be everyone elses sins. This cult sins and comitts crimes against it's own followers. The commandments that this cult uses are way beyond the commandments of the God they/you speak of.… Read more »
I have to agree with you KF. There are definitely too many people in the cult who focus inordinately on sex. They teach it too liberally, poisoning the youth of the next generation and taking the innocence of many this way. There is no discretion in their judgment.Unfortunately even some who leave are still of the same mindset. The cult especially attracts certain types, and people overly focused on sex is one of those types. They think that constantly talking about how bad it is will take care of the problem but unfortunately I think it makes it worse. It… Read more »
Can you imagine what the 'true deep mind' is really like of the one that said that over breaking the bread more than once? I can only laugh..If I was still in the church I would be giggling every time the bread came around to me, because yes that's all I would be thinking about at that time LOL.. Just sick! And people follow the sickness. That's the sad part!
Anon @ Nov 8 1201 am not of the same mindset. If you were to go to Russia you would have to speak russian to be understood, when you speak to the SCOC you have to use their cult speak to be understood. I see that the rank and file members are taught to obey leadership without question and disregard the scriptures and even their own consciences. Leaders are just men and not gods, and when a leader goes astray into corruption all the members blindly follow along. One man started slapping his young children in the face, then talked… Read more »
From the mouth of the control freak concerning breaking bread once. Cult members you will be supporting this freak for life too. Even when he stops being a paid preacher. You’ll still be supporting him. Leader of a dead church deserves nothing but ousting him from his duties.
Wisdom is a family. There is father wisdom, mother wisdom, brother wisdom, and sister wisdom, and spouse wisdom, and each member of the family has something to share with you when you marry into wisdom. Foolishness is a family also and each member of the foolish family shares their family secrets with anyone and everyone and each wonders why the have nothing when winter comes. Solomon spent his life trying to prove to himself that he was superior to others and when he achieved supremacy God rejected him. Why do men develop addictions to adult materials? Like Solomon they are… Read more »
So what are these adult materials that you speak of. Is it the thousands upon thousands ancient paintings and scupltures that have beautifully portrayed the human body, clothed and unclothed. Your wisdom sounds like fear of women. Don't forget your mother is/was a woman who had her own sexuality. Why is a man like Solomon who had many wives and concubines exaulted in the Bible as such a great leader. Surely he was promiscuous and enjoyed his sex life and was idolized for such. So was he wise or was he a fool? We can each judge for ourselves. Humbleness… Read more »
KF… Hahahhaha.. I want to know the definition too! Lol @ "go ahead and break the bread more than once" ����
Thank you KF for your comments. It is true that art has been preserved from old time that depicts human sexaulity, the video/DVD Pompeii the doomed city show just such art work from the Roman empire because while the eruption destroyed all the people it covered and thus preserved everything else. The art protraying the rape of young slave girls by their Roman masters is particularly disturbing to me to view. The comment about my mothers sexuality does not offend me as it is meant to evoke an emotional response and I use my reason to control my emotions, yes… Read more »
Save you prayers. If they were effective you would not be posting your sermons here. You do realize don't you, that your comments here only read by the most miniscule of gathering of people that may pay attention to what you say. That's hardly Spreading the Gospel to the world. Just as this cult is dying so are your words with each post. Your hypothesis that Solomon did not have some sort of birth control is based on ????. He was as powerful a man and perhaprs demi-god, that anything he wanted was granted. The absence of children whom he… Read more »
Stop making me laugh, KF. I’m crying over here at 5:35 AM on the West Coast about ‘go ahead and break the bread more than once’. That’s got to be one of the most hilarious moments on here I’ve had. Thank you for that. Anonymous is right. A strange woman is to be avoided, they are a deep ditch. Solomon was overcome by them. For all of Stanton’s shortcomings, teaching against all sex outside of marriage isn’t bad at all, unless one is a libertine and a lecher. We used to have severe stigmas against sex outside marriage, but that… Read more »
Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of your BS.. Sinbad. Curious that you would choose Sinbad the Sailor as your new disguise. Sinbad was a mythical Muslim pirate who sailed the Arabian Gulf waters steakling jewels and and womanizing with his shipmates in the ports they visited on his voyages. Not a Christian at all. Allah was his god. So check your own sources of the past. You prompted me to watch th 1947 movie. Great actors and it's even in Tecnicolor As for your great founding fathers. Many who owned hundreds of slaves, were fathers to many of their… Read more »
Lol, why use profanity when there are so many more elegant words? I once heard profanity is the sign of a weak argument or a weak mind, and sometimes both, but may the reader judge if that is so. Lol, that’s the Sinbad of hellivision, which mangles and muddles every good book. Sinbad is a thrilling tale of the seven voyages of the sailor of the same name and it appears in the same book as Aladdin, and Ali Baba and the 40 thieves: Arabian Nights or One thousand and one nights, the stories of Scherezade, who was with a… Read more »
Lol, Lol, Lol,
That’s the Marxist Howard Zinn revisionist history magic spin on the Founders. No absolute proof of the Founders fathering urchins with the help exists. Read ‘The Jefferson Lies’ by David Barton. He’s got the biggest collection of actual documents from the days of the Founders of anyone in America. If Africans had not had slaves, and sold them to Europeans, there never could have been slavery in America.
We just had the fortieth anniversary of Jim Jones, and he was real big on telling blacks they were victims, and the Founders were bad, right up until they drank the Koolaid, and all kicked the bucket. George inherited his slaves and freed them too. Pompeii is cough medicine compared to the crack of Hefner’s porn. Never in world history has porn been as aggressive, available, affordable, and anonymous as it is today. For all her faults, Merie Weis was very honorable and godly, and it’s scandalous to hear libertines and lechers like you deride her. I was a Cruz… Read more »
Prisoner 24601 Your style of writing is beginning to remind me of another blogger. But I will abstain.
Your suspicions are correct, Concerned, and your discretion is appreciated, unlike some other gossipy housewife types on here.
I wish I knew your identity as you know mine.
If you were really Gary Preman, you would know who Concerned is. She is very familiar to Gary.
Comrade Gary Preman is a nom de plume and a caricature of him. Michael Savage calls that crackpot Bernie Comrade Bernie, because Bernie is an authoritarian, just from the atheist perspective. Does anyone doubt Stanton has authoritarians who tyrannically permit injustice? Thus, Comrade Gary, Comrade Tom, and Comrade Kim. Comrade is supposed to mean a brotherly love, a feeling of camaraderie. But in commumist Russia, communism turned into a murderous and very dangerous ideology. Yet, in the midst of the dysfunction, the Soviets called each other Comrade. So too in Stanton, no dissent is allowed, which is nothing other than… Read more »
While it is certain that Stanton has a few things that do not align with scripture, yet at this time of Thanksgiving, there are many things that I am grateful for, and since modesty in gratitude is a sin, I feel it would be criminal not to state them here. 1) I’m grateful they encouraged a culture of life, and taught against all sex outside of marriage, abortion,And contraception. Thousands of Americans wouldn’t be here now if they didn’t teach this.2) I’m glad they taught against alcohol, Hollyweird, and hellivision.3) I’m glad men were generally alllowed to lead.4) I’m thankful… Read more »
I am thankful for NOT having been raised in this cult and I still managed to learn all of these things, with unconditional love and a family who did not cut me off ever. I am thankful for the realization that I learned a lot of the things Stanton taught as sin way before I was involved in the cult. I am thankful that I learned that it is up to me to decide if I want to sin or not, and that I don't have to show my sin or lack thereof to others to be approved or disapproved… Read more »
You’re on the wrong thread.
You’ve lost your way. The thread you want talks about Jim Jones and Guyana.
Most of Americas churches are cults who teach unconditional love, which is nowhere in scripture, and are wrecking marriages. But with suckers like you, who are gullible and naive, they make boatloads of money off it.
Stanton wasn’t good at keeping sin private, if it wasn’t necessary to reveal it, but James 5:17 does not say whisper your sin in a hole in the ground.
Amen and congratulations for leaving. I know there are some lovely people In This cult but to let a few phony leaders (no different than Joseph Smith leading the Mormans or the JW leader leading all those people astray) let’s continue to pray for them to leave.
A breath of fresh air, Attitude of Gratitude.
So today is "Giving Tuesday"and if anyone has been awake these last few days , you would know there is a crisis at the Mexican Border in San Diego. So while your giving thanks for your own situations there are families suffering.Well the COC cult leaders,GP and PP, the "P-man Clan" live a mere 20 miles from that border in Spring Valley, the cult compound is even closer.NOW, would be the most opportune time for them to convert these Caravan members into cult members, OR they could do as the other Christian and other religious leaders do, Help them in… Read more »
Nah, KF, GP and PP don't believe in politickin', so no one in Stanton votes, joins the military, or gets involved in 'worldly affairs'. All you need to go to heaven is to listen to yer teachers. Never mind our nation was set up to allow Christian voices to be expressed. It doesn't matter. Stanton will sneer at the world, but won't lift one finger to get involved in fixing America's problems. Also, if American men were conserving sex in marriage, and not practicing contraception, my friend, there would be 200 million more Americans here right now, and there would… Read more »
Thank you Concerned, that's what I feel when I read your posts too. The malicious venom spread by malcontents isn't healthy for them. If they valued their health, they'd forgive. Not worth messing up one's own health by holding onto unforgiveness. Besides, we all know more bad about ourselves than any other human on the planet, so it would make sense to spend most of our time addressing our own bad habits, which we are intimately acquainted with. But it's always easier to blame others for our problems, and sit and do nothing. That's what most on this site are… Read more »
Today is Veterans Day when we honor the sacrafices that thousands have made for our freedoms. Of course the COC does not participate in honoring veterans, because they believe that Jesus gives them their freedom. Well you should all take your cult to another country like Oh say, Isreal, birth[place of Jesus or Iraq or Syria where Jesus provides protection for God's children there. No you won't find any COC members supporting our military unless they became a military member before joining the cult. They will be the first to go run and hide from the strange women of the… Read more »
Very sad how they feel about the military. They would not be here in many cases without them. Actually I have witnessed how they do not keep up with current events and keep their heads in the sands. But than again they are the chosen ones.
Anon 6:08 you are correct. Though they profess God and the innumerable company of angels as there protectors. By there own teaching proved that they have neither God nor God’s angels. So they better get on board with the government, military and law enforcement and start supporting them. It certainly isn’t God protecting these cult members. There have been a number of disturbing situations that have happened with members of the cult. Where was God. Obviously not with them,
Craig, here is an English lesson for MY reading pleasure. The word THEIR is used when talking about people. The word THERE is used for in, at or to that place. It will help with your credibility.
And concerned, it's Withdrawal, not withdraw. When a person says "Their withdrawal was unscriptural" they are grammatically correct. If they say "Their withdraw was unscriptural", they are grammatically incorrect.
Oh, I see Anonymous 3:27, all the children are going to come out an play now. But your right. I stand corrected and shall never forget my error.
Just thought you would like to know, for your credibility you know. Just as you told Craig.
Right Debby, like I said, all the children are going to come out to play.
Concerned – In order to increase your correctness from 99% to 99.5% of the time, please consider using the word YOUR and YOU'RE correctly.
YOUR RIGHT should be YOU'RE RIGHT (see your comment at 5:24 above) and also your comment below at 5:37; YOUR WELCOME should be YOU'RE WELCOME. 'Your' can never mean 'you are'.
Good to know we have English Majors on here, so we all don’t perish from improper word punctuation.
Concerned, yes you are correct this time. Thank you kindly.
Your welcome Craig. p.s. I am right 99 % of the time.
And you are so humble Concerned!
I never claimed having accomplished humility.
Concerned, funny. Typical Merie worshipper response. Though I give you credit admitting you can at least rarely be wrong. What do you disagree with concerning the teachings of Merie’s cult?
Craig, they have no elders nor deacons. This indicates a central ruling body that will be its demise. Merie Weiss told the Stanton Churches this would be the case. They would die if they still had a central ruling body. Besides it is unscriptural.
Concerned, interesting. Merie thoughts were right on. Do you ever see them having deacons or elders? The May meeting held in March 2014 in Mobile they made no progress with the discussion. GP ruled himself out as ever being an elder. Agree unscriptural it is. This is an issue that new members are not educated on. Thank you
Merie Weiss's main desire was to establish elders and deacons before she died. Masturbation was the main destroyer of that goal at that time much to her dismay. You can hear tapes that would qualify this. Why would GP rule himself out from being an elder when he is already making elder decisions and has been for over 40 years? That very comment condemns his work as unscriptural. As a consequence of no elders each Stanton church congregation has a teacher (woman) and a preacher (although not paid) who sets in the place of elders and deacons. Most not meeting… Read more »
Concerned you are absolutely correct. Their whole setup is unscriptural and they outright LIE when they say each congregation is autonomous. These things you mention are all teachings Merie taught from the mainstream COC teachings she believed in, but Merie was never able to actually recreate it with all her added stipulations. She set up her cult to eventually be like the COC minus her disagreements, but it is those disagreements that cause her cult to not be able to accomplish a scriptural structure. The day they actually have elders, stop women from teaching, actually be autonomous, have deacons, etc.,… Read more »
Anon At 9:28 you are spot on! I'd never considered that Catch 22 situation.And it fits right in with why they vehemently hold onto certain teachings for so long, even though they are obviously in error. If they admit their error, then they have to admit they don't have the Holy Spirit. AND, they have to admit that other religions actually teach some things correctly-according to scripture.So it limits the "main teachers" in the group, and it's of their own doing. What a horrible situation to be in!It's what happened with the teaching on marriage and remarriage. KS found and… Read more »
Debbie, I must ask, what are they teaching now from the main line churches of Christ on marriage?
If I may, they teach that adultery alone is cause for remarriage. No one else can remarry, only separate. Stanton is full of jilted Ms. Havishams, who decided to leave their husbands and raise their children on their own. The lack of a father rarely turns out well. Sure men cheat, and aren’t financially responsible, but, I know women not in our church who stuck it out, and stayed married. I don’t know any forgiving women like that in Stanton. Stanton has some pretty vindictive women. Prolly why they have such a hard time attracting young men to Stanton. What… Read more »
It's not so much what they teach now, it's how they got there. That was my point. I was still with the group when I found out where and how the "correct" understanding came about. It is hypocritical at best. To teach that ALL other religions are "off" and all are going to hell, but then take what they teach and present it as your own understanding? It helped me to see what a sham Merie's group is. And frightening. I had to realize that the leaders of the group, that I was a part of, weren't the honest people… Read more »
Thank you prisoner 24601 for answering my question.
You are welcome. Comcerned. Yes, Debby, they have no checks and balances, and so authoritarianism is running rampant. This dictatorial, tyrannical attitude is all over the place in Stanton. The abuse of power occurs constantly and consistently.
Quite sad. If the only had elders to check the power overreaches if individual teachers, they’d be vastly improved.
You are welcome. Concerned. Yes, Debby, they have no checks and balances, and so authoritarianism is running rampant. This dictatorial, tyrannical attitude is all over the place in Stanton. The abuse of power occurs constantly and consistently.
Quite sad. If they only had elders to check the power overreaches of individual teachers, they’d be vastly improved.
Since we have an attention to grammar lately, can you find the three grammar errors in my last post that are corrected in this one?
Concerned, your comments 8:11 were very interesting. One reason GP ruled himself out as an elder was his disobedient children. Disobedient to the cult at least. This trend of children wanting no part of the cult is growing. Portland has if any, only a few teenagers attending Tacoma’s Thanksgiving meeting lol. The cult leaders always said the children are their future. Well we’ll see about that. Continue to educate the children about the truth of the cult. Encourage them to read this blog. The articles and the comments. The cult will eventually go away for good. My wife is going… Read more »
I heard tonight a good quote from a former Scientology member. The difference between a church and is a cult is what happens when they leave. That, of course, is over simplication of everything that happens like control,oppression and breaking up families.
I agree Anon 1040. That is a very noticeable thing to watch for in cults. They are very nice trying to get you in, but when you leave they are not so nice. The level of unkindness also depends on how you leave. If you leave quietly they are just cold and uncaring with a few still trying to win you back. If you leave mentioning so of the things that are hypocritical in their teachings, you'd better watch out because they are going to use anyone they can to hurt you emotionally.
Attitude for Gratitude 11:28 all that which you are thankful for can be learned outside of the cult. There is nothing special about Merie’s evil ants nest that she founded. Don’t forget about all of the wrong that has been shared on this blog which you have shared as well concerning members of Merie’s cult and their evil deeds. Tying children to bed posts at bed time. Enough said.
Not really. Show me one church that teaches against contraception, masturbation, and hellivision.
Of course, many of you on here don't mind these things, so Stanton is Satan to you.
Right intentions, wrong methods at times.
Fundamentalist LDS, Some Jehovah's Witnesses, some Pentecostals… You get it. Quit acting like this cult is special Dumas, Monte, whatever you want to call yourself. It's not special. What it teaches is not unique. Its methods are not unique. Nothing about it is unique or original.
Dumas, doesn’t take a church to teach someone against the three you mentioned. Tying children to bed posts at bed time right intentions? Dumas what do you think of the internet? Unscriptural withdrawals? Marked and avoided? No elders or deacons? Two so called evangelists who are going to be supported by the cult members for life?
Is that Dumas or Doofus?
Add to your list of teachers against your focus on sex the folowing groups, which you may care to joi,n in your quest to educate the world on the benefits of your godly cause. Planes are leaving every hour to these fine groupsTaliban -Loacted in exotic localesShite & Sunni – bring your water bottle & bibleSaui Arabia's prince – Can't see a v with a burka onISIS, yes, even they will support your Anti-TV crusadeSo send a post card to any of these groups so that you can tell them how keeping women ignorant, controlled and repressed is just how… Read more »
It always was a joke how they taught against tv yet members had a tv. Most cases because of the non member husband. The member wife in some cases would watch with her husband. The preacher in Portland MM used his computer as a tv. I wonder how many others do the same. Is everything on the tv evil. Of course not. I’m going out on a limb and will say more men have had issues with the internet and pornography then watching reruns of Gilligan’s Island. I know who these men are and some were preachers in the cult.… Read more »
Most of the younger couples and singles pretty much all watch YouTube movies, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, etc. I knew a preacher's kids who would use the Internet to download pirated movies, and this was at least 5 years ago , I can't imagine what they watch now. It's very commonplace in the SCOC. I don't know what Dumas is talking about over there, he must be remembering the cult of the 80's. That is long gone, Dumas. They gotta teach it, but they will turn a blind eye to it or else no one would stay. That's right. I'd… Read more »
Today I was told this by someone who left the SCOC. That going back there would be like A dog going back to its vomit. It was told not in jest but in all seriousness and convinction. This person, having been away from their influence long enough, has come to realize that is what it is for him, even the thought of ever going back. A dog going back to its vomit. That's how disgusting the thought of what they do to God's word makes him feel.
Anon 12:27. So true. I’d have to say the same thing. My wife has been telling me how so and so misses me and so and so said hello. All those people were friends for 20 years. Yet they all including my wife betrayed me going along with an unscriptural withdrawal of a nonmember. I remind her I’ll never go back. Only to bump heads with Portland’s preacher MM would be the only reason.