If I were to ask one question of Stanton members, it would be this: Did Merie ever make herself right from her withdrawal for sowing seeds of discord and causing division?
Here is her letter of withdrawal from 1958. (Mainline churches actually leave a paper trail for their disciplinary actions, unlike Stanton COC, which prefers to keep its business under the cover of secrecy.)
To me, this is the question that strikes at the root of the tree of the Stanton sect. According to Merie’s own teaching, the mainline churches didn’t “lose the candlestick” until sometime in the mid-70’s. This means her withdrawal was put into place by a church that even she recognized. Now remember that by Stanton COC teachings, even unjust withdrawals need to be honored until the church obtains a “new understanding” from the Holy Spirit.
So their own teachings undercut the authenticity of the sect. Spring Valley, much less Stanton or any of the others, should have never been started, and should not then currently exist, by virtue of the fact that Merie was withdrawn from the entire time she was starting and building her little sect.
Remember, a sect is simply a division. Isn’t it obvious then that the basis for her withdrawal was accurate? She actively sought to divide the church, and succeeded in that effort.
Even if the things she was saying were right (which they weren’t), by their own standard, she should have kept quiet until the church came around to the correct view. Furthermore, she would have been guilty of murmuring if she vocalize any dissent. She should have humbled herself during her withdrawal and sought to “make herself right.”
But no. Stanton’s own rules for others don’t apply to themselves. This is the height of Pharisaism, and the kind of unrepentant hypocrisy that has no defense.
Hi Kevin, can you share how you got this document? I was asked…what if it was photoshopped? I did answer that no one appeared to dispute it. But also I could not find a listing for the East San Diego CoC. So just curious.
Unfortunately, I can't share that info at this time, because it was shared in confidence. There was great risk to a relationship in sharing it at all, and only way I got an agreement to share it publicly was for the source to be confidential. I can tell you that it was scanned directly from original documents that had been in an old file cabinet for a very long time by a believer who has no interest in lying or the technological prowess to do it. Basically, you're going to have to trust me and my source on this—but it… Read more »
I understand, thanks for answering.
At your own admission most of those contributing to this blog have at one point been withdrawn from, rebuked, reproved etc. and didn't agree with the judgment past down on you. Your minds, again from your writings in this blog, were still to soldier on and stay true to what you believe. Why couldn't Merie Weiss have the same courtesy from all of you? She went from door to door and (some how) was instrumental in building many churches of Christ. I can't say I have experienced anything near this kind of success. Merie was withdrawn from more than once… Read more »
Fact check: People who were first-hand witnesses of the chaos she wreaked in those early years know of only the one withdrawal, which she never came back from. I'm sorry to mess up your sanitized narrative of what happenee, but the facts show she was withdrawn from for sowing discord and causing division…which was true, because that is what actually happened…she created a faction out of the Spring Valley congregation.
Freda Harper would have the right history, this I know. If the history is coming from Freda then I will have nothing more to say on the subject. But from Merie's own narrative she was withdrawn from at least three times. Three different churches of Christ.
Anon 11:25: there are many, many people over time who have started churches with ZEAL. Jim Jones comes to mind. L Ron Hubbard also. Joseph Smith. Does that mean anyone with ZEAL who starts churches is right? No. If u dig deeper, while we don't like the results of Merie's "zeal", many of us are upset that our consciences have been overridden by this woman's judgement (doctrine) and not necessarily Christ's. One problem here is that you think only this woman taught the "truth " in the WHOLE ENTIRE WORLD and so no one can go against her church or… Read more »
I judge based upon the fruit it has born. I look at the children who were raised up in the SCOC and ask how are they doing today? Many of the adult children will have nothing to do with the abusive people they were raised by and with. If the tree was good why is the fruit withering? Perhaps what is more to the point what is the SCOC like today and not so much about Merie. Institutions change with a change in leaders, what is the current state of the flock? are they moral and loving people or as… Read more »
Kevin, waitin for YOUR answer.
Anon 10:09, Im working on a broken washer, sorry I'm not answering fast enough for you, Paula. Sorry, just an educated guess. 😉 My information comes from a contemporaneous source familiar with Merie's divisive behavior going as far back as her teens and 20s. I have always said that if my information is faulty or incomplete, please correct me. I would be quite open to learning more information about additional withdrawals besides the one I have documented. I'm not sure that helps your case defending her legacy, but hopefully we can agree that truth and accuracy is important no matter… Read more »
Anon on Sept 27 at 11:25 am: By your own admission, Merie was withdrawn from and didn't come back from her last withdrawal I quote: "Her last withdrawal was in 1964, because she had no place that would fellowship her she began to knock on door and convert souls…"I remember when I was with the group, a common saying was "How can one person be right but the whole church be wrong?" Good question to ask you, Anon. How can Merie be "right" but the whole church of Christ be wrong? The truth is, even by your own admission, Merie… Read more »
Thank you, Debby. Stanton's teachings don't allow for a withdrawn from member, even if, and especially if withdrawn from unjustly, to speak out, leave, or dare to write letters back to the church, as Merie did. This is just blatant hypocrisy and cuts right at the root of this tree called Stanton. I'll be generous and say that the foundation is built on blind faith that Merie acted scripturally. It's absolutely clear she did not.
The structure cannot be better than the foundation it's built on. The student cannot be better than her teacher.
And yes, it is so ironic that the "mark and avoid" situation was the result of someone trying to defend Merie's teachings. This means the current group of teachers and evangelists are reformers of Merie's teachings. And if it needed reforming, it couldn't have been the pure truth it was claimed to be.
One thing that amazes me is the lack of successive leaders. In the Bible we read of Christ leading then Peter leading then Paul leading. In the SCOC it is only Merie that is exalted as a Holy and righteous leader. Has God left his people leaderless? Where are the equivalent leaders today in the SCOC? Who is risen to lead that is equal in understanding to Merie? Why hold to Merie as the leader when she died so many years ago? Is the SCOC trying to hide the fact that no one is receiving understandings from God today? Merie… Read more »
Debbie, I know you and your history very well. So I know you know the damage sowing seeds of discord among the brethren will do. This entire blog was started to bring down an entire Church of Christ through out the USA. All the accusers have showed up. And at a time when Christians are being destroyed by the world. You better be sure you are right in this matter before God not before each other. I love the scripture in Jude 9 that says, Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil and disputing about the body of… Read more »
Your comment implies that you consider all of us as still part of your church, how could we sow discord among the brethren unless we are part of the brotherhood? How can we, the rejects and outcasts, have any effect upon the church and its members unless the whole church was reading this blog? It is sin that you should curse and not this blog which shines the light of truth upon your behavior. We know you also and more than you realize and your evil deeds will not be hid from the church. I love the scripture Proverbs 26:26… Read more »
Anon at Sept 28 @ 9:09 am you are a scratched record replaying the same old thing over and over. You had better fear leadership and not criticize us or else! What you should write about is the love of money which is rightly called the root of all evil. Like water corrupts metal so does covetousness corrupt people. It does not have to be your money that you are loving either! A congregation with a large collection is loved while a congregation with a small treasury is despised. The large treasury congregation gets special treatment from leadership being able… Read more »
Anon 9:09, this "entire blog" was definitely NOT started to bring down any church, as anyone who's read it from the beginning knows. Some commenters may have that agenda, some don't. I don't. I'm agnostic, or maybe more accurately, indifferent as to what should happen to the Stanton church as an organization. I would not shed tears of regret if it entirely disbanded tomorrow, but I would shed tears of joy, literally, if tomorrow it announced a new direction to only speak where the Bible speaks, and where it's silent, to actually be silent. Yes, I would cry happy tears… Read more »
Anon on September 28 at 9:09am: Yes, I know the damage sowing seeds of discord will do, that is why I answered you as I did. You know it well too.I'm not one of those who would like to see the group disbanded, I only want (and wanted) to see change in the group. I would like to see and hear teachers actually teach, instead of evil surmising and speaking evil of others and murmuring about others. No where in the scriptures do you see that liberty given to "teachers". Never did Paul say it was ok for "teachers" to… Read more »
Also Anon at 9:09 am, I did notice that you did NOT once deny that Merie did NOT come back from her last withdrawal.It does matter how many time she was withdrawn from, and it does matter how many times she came back. You also did not address the comment many of the "teachers" of the group like to say-how can one person be right and the whole church be wrong? The whole system of leadership in the group is set up for oppression. There is no accountability for the "teachers", nor is there any for the evangelists. For some… Read more »
Interesting the comments today. Why haven't the monies been accounted for or audited and then the results given to the congregation? Sounds like a bit of corruption as well as deceit and scare tactics that keep these uneducated people attending. Let's keep printing out the blog and leaving in public places.
Excellent points Debbie!!
Yes, thanks Debby. Well said.
"You are all in a very dangerous position before heaven." No. You are correct in that they knowledge we are to follow it to come from God, but it has been seen that even the two Evangelists aren't following the scriptures. I have first hand knowledge of this as I have spoken with both of them what was going on in the Tacoma congregation. The one in CA basically ignored me and the one on the east coast turned it against me men when I had proof there were lying and murmuring preachers and teachers there. The one from the… Read more »
This is the heart a Christian is to have. That heart is not in Tacoma and it is being taught as this from the pulpit and classes. The congregation believes this is the way it is supposed to be. This is why Tacoma was known for a great lack of love. they are taught to ignore their brethren. Another example, one of the preacher's sons just started preaching, his wife just had a baby and missed some time, and he said from the pulpit that in all of the time his wife was out nobody even called her. We are… Read more »
Yes I hope Anon that you all in Merie's church are recognizing that same scripture applies to you. That you all are responsible for the oppression and severe discouragement of so many. Some here have worse discouragements but one example I can think of is getting pressured from JS and DS who had just come from Memphis to SA a couple years ago. To be told that the sisters in Memphis all left their children at 6 weeks to begin the personal work and that I should do the same. What an affront to the conscience! I should have never… Read more »
@M Long ! I definitely am not wishing harm on anyone,but it’s great Dominic S, his wife are no longer preaching & teaching.
The father of rage is no longer abusing from the pulpit? His uncontrolled anger quickly turned into uncontrolled rage behind the pulpit as he screamed for hours non stop, four and half hours in San Antonio at his apogee of abuse, and many Christians followed his example, both men and women, and address any perceived weakness with their own uncontrolled rage. The parents who turned into child abusers were first abused emotionally themselves by this man and having accepted abuse as a Christian virtue then in turn became abusers themselves. The wicked tree of abuse has stopped preaching but who… Read more »
In proverbs 1:11-13 it describes the beliefs and associated behaviors of the wicked. It describes a belief in ambushing and overpowering and killing and robbing their victims and you can read examples of this with Cain and Able, Esua and Jacob, King Saul and David, and on and on and on. In the proverbs if you take the word fool and use the synonym “carnal” you get a deeper understanding. My first teaching preacher was carnal and would fly into a rage and verbally overpower any offense real or just perceived, and many still follow his pernicious ways. The arrogant… Read more »
One of the many things that would baffle me was how he would preach the necessity of daily study of the Bible but then do everything possible to make sure you had no time to study. One roommate would when seeing me sit down to study in the evening suddenly want go go out for an ice cream and fellowship. I then would get up early to study and my roommate would leave for work then return five minutes later for some unknown reason and this happened repeatedly until I would have to go and hide to get any study… Read more »
As a babe I was taught Psalms 34:7 that Christians have divine protection and in Proverbs 2:7 Solomon qualifies God’s protection to those who walk uprightly so it is implied that those who go astray are not under God’s protection. It is sad to see the wicked Christian scorn God’s instruction and refuse to repent of his pedophila and refuse to confess to all the children he has molested even though he said “okay if that’s how you feel” when he was instructed to stand and confess. In the town of El Mirage AZ there was a triple homicide this… Read more »
An interesting character study is king Herod. If you take proverbs 1:20-33 and apply it to king Herod you will see the pattern of wisdom (personified by John the baptist) teaching a simple man the gospel first John would have to establish the divinity of God’s word then convict him of his sin, then offer the plan of salvation but it is implied that when convicting him of his sin that Herod scorned him when John taught him that it was not lawful for Herod to have his brothers wife. Later in life when Herod meets wisdom again ( personified… Read more »
Schism is a great study. The division between people belonging to the same group due to strongly held opposing beliefs. In the old testament you can read of the schism between the ten tribes of Israel and the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin and see how both sides went astray from their God. There is another schism that is only inferred by God’s behavior against his own chosen people and that is the schism between good and evil. When Israel was more evil then their neighbors then God blessed the unbelievers and cursed Israel. In the COC I was… Read more »
In Genesis 3 we read of the transgression of Adam and Eve. God created man, then established a law against the eating of the fruit and a penalty for the transgression which was certain death. Then Adam and Eve transgressed but were not put to death and one has to ask why. Adam and Eve received mercy for their sins and were punished less than they deserved. God, the authority investigated the matter by asking questions found out who was to blame then gave a split judgment(three way split) and the punishments fit the guilt of each party proportionally, God… Read more »
In Matthew 24:48-51 Christ speaks about the behavior of a good servant who turns evil and how he begins to fellowship with gluttons and drunkards and turns violent toward his equals. This description matches the end of king Solomons life as he details in Ecclesiastes and his abusive behavior is mentioned in 2 chronicles chapter 10 how he whipped his fellow countrymen. What is the root behind his behavior? Grandiosity. With the desire for grandiosity one must do greater and greater things to be satisfied with oneself that you are superior to and above all your enemies and safe from… Read more »
No one is as virtuous as each believes themselves to be, and none was ever so wicked as each believes the other to be. You call me wicked, fair enough but consider your own behavior as well. Financial exploitation of a follower by a teacher was observed when the Tow truck teaching preacher willingly accepted hundreds and perhaps thousands of dollars in free repair and upgrades to his tow truck while the Volkswagen mechanics estranged wife went begging in the streets of Oxnard CA, and no one called for financial relief for the poor woman, I consider that financial exploitation… Read more »
Well the pedophile has sold his house in Suprise AZ on Feb 1st and moved again, this time to points unknown. I pity the congregation that is cursed with his presence, like Ben Franklin said “if you sleep with dogs you will get fleas.” There is a singer from the 60’s named Niel Diamond whose song called “Sweet Caroline” is the national anthem for Pedophiles. Niel Diamond wrote it to 6 year old Caroline Kennedy after seeing a picture of her after her fathers death. The touching of children whether it be a pat on the head, or a hand… Read more »
I've come to call it Merie's Church of Christ since she started it.
Hello Seeking! Welcome to the site here! I doubt that you and I have met, my husband and I left in 2006. It took us a while to make the decision, and we each made it on our own, separate from each other.We have never regretted it! You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and are correct about what you are observing. What you will find is that it's going to get worse for you, the longer that you stay in. Mainly because-how dare you!-you think for yourself. I don't mean that in a bad way! I… Read more »
Matthew 7:15-20 By their fruits ye shall know them. Grapes and figs are from the plant kingdom as are thorns and thistles; however grapes and figs are good things that help others and thorns and thistles are plants that bear no fruit but do help themselves to the land. If you take the figs and grapes and thorns and thistles analogy and apply this knowledge to Christ and Satan you develop understanding very quickly. Of the two, Christ and Satan who helped others and who only took for himself? Of the two, Christ and Satan which ones followers grow stronger… Read more »
Every time you read something in the bible and do not understand it then look for an example of it in the bible. No matter what the subject matter the bible has an example it somewhere. I always wondered why an olive branch was a symbol of peace and you see it in Genesis 8:11 that the dove returned to Noah with an olive leaf in her mouth, so if it intentional or by default the olive leaf became a sign of peace; that is the end of God's wrath. In romans 11:17 you see how the Apostle Paul uses… Read more »
Thanks, Debby. My husband and I already left. After some initial shock of separating from those we love there, we are actually feeling relieved. I'm already visiting another coc and I do like it. I visited a couple others but this one might be it for us. I've read your comments throughout. Definitely thought-provoking and balanced.