A reader emailed me this letter and asked me if I would post it. I’ve been a little reluctant because of the underlying bitterness that is still there, but we agreed that I could make a few introductory comments about that. While I don’t at all endorse the bitterness, I do understand where it’s coming from. My hope and prayer is that KF can defeat this bitterness, and I believe that can only happen by experiencing God’s love and forgiveness in a way that he’s never seen in the Stanton churches.
EDIT #1 – In the spirit of clearing up confusion about the purpose of posting this letter, I think it should be clear by my history on this blog that it was not to defame anyone or slander K.F.’s ex-wife. K.F., I am going to redact a few lines that appear to be attacks on your ex-wife. They may or may not be true, but I don’t want the purpose of this blog to be questioned in any manner. The purpose is to expose Stanton’s history, give voice to people who have been hurt, and to show a way out of that hurt in a Christlike manner. To those who think I exercised bad judgment by posting the letter in its previous form, I apologize. It was a tough judgment call, and I’m doing my best to seek a wise course on things like this.
They Took My Wife and Ruined My Life, by “K.F.”
Hello Kevin, I’m not a member, however many of the members of the Spring Valley cult know me personally through the membership of my ex-wife CF.
I thank you giving all these people a forum to express their experiences with the doctrines put out by the teachers of this cult that have damaged their lives.
In my 30 year career as an air traffic controller, we referred to others by their operating initials, hence KF.
The damage in my life began about 1990 in Santee where I was living with CF, my wife of 7 years at the time. We had two children, EF my son born 1984, and SF my daughter born 1986.
The stories of how the members and their children were separated from their “worldly” friends and families gave me painful reminders of what I and my children suffered from. So I felt that I should contribute some outside perspective to this small community.
CF and I lived unmarried together for nearly four years before getting married in 1983. Yes we waited to be married before having children, not like some of the family members of SCOC.
The door knocker that got my wife’s attention then (1990) was none other than [Snip]. Starting with non-member classes then eventually being baptized not long after. The effect on my family was innocuous at first, but soon there were changes that made an impact. When COC stepped into my marriage bed to tell me how and how often I can have sex with my own wife, that told me we were headed for trouble. [Snip]
Then my children were told to dress different than other “worldly” people.
This term “worldly” has separated so many from the real world. When you look outside of the COC, doesn’t the rest of the world count? Does this cult think that only people within their one nation english speaking, sexually judgmental world are the only people on earth that matter? Are all women harlots constantly tempting weak-willed men into sexual pursuits? Why not chastity belts?
[EDITOR’S NOTE: There are many ways to teach kids to save sex for marriage and to dress modestly without resorting to cult-like control of members.]
They destroy families and should be shamed and punished for what they have done in the name of Christ. Throughout my wife’s membership in the COC, many times fellowships were held in my homes for her to impress other members. Didn’t they realize they were invited into the home of a worldly heathen? I would come home from my work on Sundays and feel quite unwelcom in my own home as 10-20 members and kids occupied my house.
[Snip] and their family even rented a home of ours for a time in Santee. Other members have rented apartments or homes that we owned over the 20+ years that CF has been a member.
My kids were taught to avoid me because “he is not one of us” or “your father has worldly behaviors.” [Snip]‘s kids rented an apt from us, [Snip] rented a brand new home, [Snip] and their 5 kids [Snip] and another family lived together in our duplex til our divorce in 2010. We lost over $100,000 having to sell that asset.
Speaking of our assets. Since the COC discourages women from working or getting an education, the assets that we acquired during our marriage were attained entirely through my ability to maintain my high income job while also spending many,many of my off hours constructing new homes and remodeling others. CF hasn’t worked since 1984, She now lives on over $30,000 a year taken from my federal retirement and also lives in a house mortgage-free that she was given in the settlement. How’s that ladies? Wouldn’t you all like to have your own house and $30K a year?
Of course everyone in the COC knew we were getting divorced. Not one, Not one of any of the members who knew me personally, lived in my homes, worked with me in my airplane washing business, fellowshipped in my home over and over…not one cared enough about our marriage to speak to us together. [Snip] knew me very well.
This is why I refer to the COC as hypocrites Hypo-Christians. They do not practice what they preach.
My children suffered real identity problems as they were continually segregated from their school friends. Sorry, but many of the children in the COC were not the best friends for my daughter to have. Now that I hear of the yelling that went on it angers me more. My son is not a member Thank Goodness not Godness, my daughter is still struggling with identity but is making good progress now in finding new direction. Actually she has attended and will attend college in spite of her mother’s church doctrine. [Snip]
So as you can gather I am very bitter over the teachings of this cult and their hypocritical actions. Who do they help but themselves? Will their doctrine bring peace in the world? NO.
Do they reach out to actually provide food or shelter to anyone? NO.
Do billions of other people in the world count? YES.
So you can all go on praying for better times, but until you are ready to roll-up your sleeves and get into the rest of the world and help, yes we are all doomed to some fate. Not by the hand of some God but by the continuous degrading of our lives by failing societies and ignorance.
I addressed the Spring Valley congregation last year with a written flyer I left on a few windshields that day. It addressed a debt that my ex-wife owes me during our worldly divorce.
It was CF who initiated the divorce as the plaintiff. Wasn’t that against COC doctrine?
My flyer was taken as an act of domestic violence by CF and she actually had a restraining order placed on me for three months. Talk about worldly actions.
I do not intend to let this debt go, It involves $19,000. Perhaps with a few more people knowing about it she will confess to this debt and pay me back. She already takes money that I alone earned.
Our divorce took over three years (2007-2010) and cost our children over $200,000 of inheritance that went to attorneys. She took me to court again in 2013, wanting more money. Who’s worldly now?
So children of COC and members who read this blog, thank you for expressing your views and helping me to gain insight into what happened in my marriage. I forwarded the list of rules that Christian’s live by to my sister who lives in Jordan in the Middle East only about 100 miles from Bethlehem, Israel. She responded by saying “there is another group just like them. They are called the Taliban.” She is correct, but COC uses Guilt instead of Guns.
If you stay you will be damaged, if you have left or are thinking to leave, may you have better fortune through your self-determination.
Every man/woman sins. The greater sin is non-acceptance of human beings and trying to persuade others to live in a closed-off world. It’s a small world that is dying and not growing.
Praying and imagining are not going to change the world as it is. Dreams can be lived but only through earnest work?
Love “Well that’s just some people talking” “Your prison is walking through this world all alone” (Eagles)
I’m sure many who read this will know who I am. I invite you to email me.
FYI, I did make edits for clarity, and later cut out some references that I didn’t feel were helpful or necessary. It is painful to click “Publish,” but I believe it’s necessary to hear KF’s perspective and experiences.
K.F., I hope these edits are OK with you, if not let me know and I’ll remove the post. I’m praying for you that God will bring people into your life to speak about God using a different language–the language of love and radical forgiveness offered through Jesus Christ.
If we look at how Jesus handled being treated unjustly, we have a pretty clear model for how we should react–with love and grace.
grace – n. – unmerited favor
KF…I’m sorry you went through all this.
KF, sorry for your experience. It must be painful, a marriage ending always is. While I think the SCOC has many correct aims, the methods it uses to get there, as it ignores most of the past 2000 years, is often erroneous, and does more harm than help. They have good hearts mostly, as I don't think they are malicious, only trying to do God's will as they see it. But without paying attention to the past, serious errors can and are being made. The misguided treatment of nonmembers is unneccessary. They have the law right, but now need to… Read more »
-KF- I am so sorry to hear your story! Me and my husband stayed at your house one May meeting. You had the pilot on our plane announce our anniversary on our flight home. I'll never forget that! As I posted MY STORY a few months ago, I know it does help to get our stories 'out there', and I know these stories offer hope to others. I left SCoC last August and never once looked back! Unfortunately, when there are family members still in, it leaves you still connected to the harm that takes place to the family. It… Read more »
This man is truly frustrated, hurt, totally confused by those who are claiming to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I have only read the snipped version. So don't know all that was said, and nor do I agree with his world view. That said, he is expressing exactly what so many have experienced. Of course there are always 2 sides to a divorce. But what I read about how he was treated, the overall attitude towards him as an "unbeliever" etc. are par to what I remember. So how is stating this "truth" unacceptable? Those criticizing (once again anonymously)… Read more »
Thank you Teresa.
Wow…Once again proof SCOC only cares about $$$$ and control–not marriage.
KF- thank you so much for sharing your story!!!
This man is a pathetic excuse for a father to post this about his kids.
Why does he bring up sins his wife and he committed BEFORE She was baptized. He just wanted to run her name through the mud that is why he offers so much personal information so you know who "C.F." is. Kevin posting this shows how lowbrow he is and a gossip. Would Jesus post this about someone's former life???
I have to agree with Christy. What does someone's past have to do with the life they live once they have turned away from sin and turned to God. This is why I think it is wrong to post this. It comes of as gossip instead of trying to enlighten people about the COC.
The point is that she seems to be taking him to the cleaners for all he is worth….Christy, I'm sure she has no problem talking about him in a bad light around her peers. SCOC appears to be counseling members on a consistent basis now to divorce your husbands and get all you can from them financially. I think they changed their doctrine again.
This is attacking someone on a whole other level. Imagine if YOUR father posted this about your family. NO integrity whatsoever. Now I know what kind of Christian you are.
I had hoped that posting this letter with my own preface about disapproving of his bitterness would make it more clear the spirit in which I posted it. I hope people who have been reading the blog know better than to think I'm endorsing his comments as justifiable in any way, shape, or form. The guy is clearly not a follower of Jesus, and posting it was not an endorsement of his opinion. My point in doing so was (I thought) obviously in the spirit of sharing what readers have experienced and opening conversations about it. However, perhaps it was… Read more »
The man has an opinion on how he was treated. No one has said he embellished, which would be the only real reason to discount him. Instead, I see various attacks that are really just deflecting away from the overall point of his letter. Kevin has to be careful, sure, but not publishing this would just be an endorsement of censorship just for censorships sake. Also, I disagree that any coordinated "attack" is taking place. While observation may be taking place every one of the ones being suspected of that would just post as themselves. Kevin, I hope this doesn't… Read more »
I think the raw truth is what makes the blog appealing. Over censorshipis always bad.
Anon 6:01 – Thank you. I am not always sure about the correct line in the sand on every issue. What I do know is that transparency is far more important.
@ anonymous 10:14 I know right! And what is all the weird ranting at the end of "k.f."'s letter.
You are so right! Congratulations to "CF" for getting away from this guy!!!!
How did the church ruin your life? Seriously tell me. You take no ownership in your divorce. You were a perfect partner???? Right.
If you read his case without pre-judging, you would have seen the part where he said he would have been open talking with them about his marriage (SCOC).
Wow, I've been working for the past few days and didn't keep up with all the comments. I'm not caught up yet, but I feel the need to comment here. Everyone who wants to think badly of me for posting this, remember that my purpose was clearly not to endorse his point of view, but to share it so people can see the wreckage that Stanton wreaks on families.Whoever he is–I still don't know him from Adam–clearly has a lot of bitterness built up that does not jive with being a follower of Jesus. Yet he never claimed to be… Read more »
Your wrestling with if you should post this or not was your conscience. You know it is not okay to trash people in the way this guy is trashing his ex wife.
I am ashamed that when I started reading this blog I thought you had good intentions. I now realize the purpose of this blog is to trash the church and its members.
Anon 9:34 – First off, there is such a thing as a gray area where one could make a good case for against something. I think this is one of those cases. The argument for posting it is that this blog has given voice to many people who have been hurt by the doctrines and practices of the SCOC and damaged their view of God. KF is clearly in that position. The living testimony throughout his marriage was not one that drew him to the God of all creation, but away from him. This, unfortunately, is not uncommon. The argument… Read more »
I think your conscience already answered that question for you.
I choose to believe what God has to say about himself: that he is good and can be trusted. I recognize that God is not the abuser; rather, people who misuse their authority are the abusers. I have learned not to accept the criticism and outright condemnation that comes from the pulpit put out by false accusers, it is simply not true. I see these petty tyrants as pissants(that is the smallest of all ants) in the kingdom of my God.
MONEY MONEY MONEY is all this guy cares about. We ALL Know what God says about lovers of money. Seriously count how many times he brings up money or assets. KF is just bitter about his divorce and takes no blame for anything. He must think he is Jesus himself.
Mm in Portland has one of the largest houses I've ever seen. Although I do agree that people in the church shouldn't have that kind of money, he's only 1 of many many wealthy Christians that try to justify their large incomes and bribe their children if they stay close to the church. I've seen it numerous times, one being an account of the main preacher where I grew up telling his oldest son that if he became a Christian that he'd pay for any schooling he was doing at the time.
Let me add that in the last few days, someone posted a comment in my name. Please don't do that. For the sake of clarity, if your name truly is Kevin, please add an initial at least so readers can differentiate. And if you think that there are comments needing a response and I'm not getting to it fast enough, feel free to text me and let me know. You can find my contact info in the sidebar. Obviously, there were some misunderstandings about the purpose of posting this letter. Again, I felt the experience from the perspective of a… Read more »
Kevin you are seeing a coordinated counter attack from church leadership through your blog against a non member ex husband. I recognize the people through their clichés. I see Gary's cliché in anon 10:14 pathetic, Paula cliché in anon 9:34, and Dominick in anon 9:40. You should feel honored that church leadership reads your blog and posts anon on it.
Anon 7:07 yes, I sensed an "inside job" in the works as well. 🙂 That's okay. This really isn't about tearing anyone down and maybe if they actually read the contents of this blog they'll see that.
Wow talk about paranoid conspiracy theories. I can't believe I thought Kevin had the intentions of enlightenment but I have been the one enlightened by his and others comments. The hatred for COC is quite sad to see. 🙁
Wow, and exactly where do you see hatred from me?
Kevin, where are you? There seems to have slipped into the blog posts with very bad minds attached to them. I thought the web site Church of Christ Former Members and Children covered the folks with the loose speech. But I believe I am seeing them now on this blog. Not good.
"Concerned" I actually have a life and work and a family, so no, I don't sit on the computer bloggind and responding to comments all day. I did see some foul language that I deleted, but I should point out that they were defending the church.
C'mon people, keep it clean and conversational. I will delete inappropriate comments as necessary.
Kevin, I really hope that the "church leaders" do read this blog and take to heart what is being said. I read these comments from members who have been teachers for years, who have been basically saying the same things, and see a pattern that just can't be ignored. I have read a lot of letters from Archives For Truth Magazine and see that they were doing basically the same things. People could see the problems, but nobody would fix the problem. You would think that if my heat was really focused on doing the will of God and having… Read more »
To all those commenters who criticized KF's story- are any of you past members of the Stanton churches of Christ? Or are you current members? Being a past member of 36 years I DO understand why KF is so angry and bitter. That doesn't make it right. Try to put yourself in this man's shoes. If the Jim Jones cult took a family member from you, don't you think you would be angry and bitter. And, NO, that is not an unfair comparison. The practices of this sect are extreme and ARE NOT Christlike. You who are without sin let… Read more »
Donna, if my memory serves me correctly, and it does, you were one of the heaviest judges in the Stanton churches for a very long time. It is really difficult for me to read your total clear eyed conversion to how you believe and council now. You called the stanton churches of christ extremist, not Christlike, Christians who omit the grace of Christ. etc. etc. etc. As you said in one of your letters, you didn't like them telling you how to raise your children and out you came. But you didn't leave because of them not being Christlike, or… Read more »
To concerned- YES! You are correct that I was one of the harshest judges. I learned that from Merie on down and I did help perpetuate that. But if you go back and read my story from February I DID, in fact, state that I left partly for the man-made teaching. I do not counsel now. I now stand before GOD in His grace (not omitting HIS law) and strive to walk in love towards my family. I am STILL trying to UNLEARN the hardness that was instilled in me.
Thank you Donna. I also was a pretty judgmental Christian in my younger years. So, by the way, was Alexander Campbell, Paul, and many other believers in history. I turned from that Phariseeism and renounced it, because that's what repentance is. We all have our past. So does K.F. who makes no claim to be a follower of Christ, and so does his ex-wife, whose attachment to Stanton's doctrines at least contributed to "ruining his life" as he puts it. I would like to emphasize, K.F., that your life is not ruined, it may be just starting on a new… Read more »
Donna, there are a lot of brethren who don't know what is going on. The teacher and preachers act on a different level to where they don't let those beneath them know what is going on. A week ago I ran into a sister who had been a Christian since the early eighties who didn't even know what was going on. I think that a lot of time they don't tell the congregation what all of the information is, but give them blanket answers, like just saying that another member is not taking teaching. So, if I am given wrong… Read more »
The only way they can keep information from getting out is by controlling the flow of information. This is why they ban Facebook as an extra-Biblical "rule" for members. If you are preaching a lie, you don't want people, through social media, to come in contact with information that contradicts your unbiblical dogma. But truth need not be afraid of a lie…
Kevin, I agree. One time I asked for the list of the contacts of the other congregations and was turned down. I could never understand all the secrecy that they kept in not allowing other congregations speak with each other unless it was under their control.
Even though they taught against Facebook I still used it to keep in contact with my family throughout the US and Puerto Rico. I think that is one reason I had trouble with them because I didn't follow teachings I knew was wrong.
Where is your story? I didn't see it posted. I agree with all you've said. I love many of the SCOC and really hope they read and learn they have to be more christ-like and help their stumbling brethren with more kindness.
Also, they don't teach against Facebook. Paula has Facebook as well as many other Christians. They teach about what content you view on the internet as a whole.
By that I mean they teach that viewing pornographic material and other worldly things are damaging to your soul, marriage, life, kids…… I would not want my husband to look at porn. But Facebook is definitely not "forbidden."
That's news to me that they don't teach members not to have a Facebook account. And I can't find Paula on Facebook, so she must have her privacy settings very tight to avoid detection.
It's possible they're softening their stance now after Labor Day 2013, or at least getting on Facebook now to find out what people are saying.
Or maybe they're using a different meaning of the word "teach" than I am. 🙂
Search preman and you should find Paula. I have met her many times over the years and she is very sweet and genuine.
I have met her too (many years ago as a child). And I'm not at all suggesting she or anyone else isn't sweet or genuine, BTW.
I don't get the feeling that you wish to bash anyone. I have noticed others do that through your site. I wish we could all have a conversation about the bible with out all the personal attacks. Anyway, a lot of things posted about the COC seem false or at least exaggerated.
The negativity comes and goes as people with different kinds of experiences in SCOC find and engage with the blog. Those whose lives were put into turmoil by the church and have rejected God as a result have the hardest time. I think it's important to show some compassion for their experiences while not condoning mudslinging either. It's a fine line to try to walk.
Feel free to comment about the things that interest you, or questions you have for me. I'd much rather discuss Biblical subjects than be the mudslinging cop–no matter which side it's coming from. 🙂
"someone out there" – it's important also to make a distinction between the blog and the comments. I've made every possible attempt to ensure what I've written is factually accurate, and to make it clear when I'm not 100% positive about something. While I can't necessarily vouch for the veracity of comments, or certainly the spirit behind them, I do have a pretty long history with detailed knowledge of the church my whole life (I'm 46). Many of the things that seem extreme from years ago really did happen–I remember them happening while I was growing up, and being privy… Read more »
What was the final straw that broke the camel's back with the COC? You say that as I'm seeking the truth I will grow in my understanding. What took you away from the SCOC to this new path.
Kevin, you are right about people's feelings. Belonging to the church is just going and listening. We allow it to encompass our lives as we are told to through the scriptures. Like how we love our children and spouses, this love runs deep and we are fully committed, but what hurts is when certain teachers, preacher, and evangelists use it to control use rather than build us up. it hurts to sit through a rebuking for something that was misunderstood or you didn't do. It hurts when people ignore you based upon false accusations or on a lack of looking… Read more »
Belonging to the church is MORE THAN just going and listening.
"someone out there," I had many reasons for leaving SCOC. 1. Unbiblical Doctrines. My eyes started being opened to the overwhelming list of doctrines that could not be supported by the Bible–not even close. As the doctrines started piling up, it became clear that SCOC was in no better position than the Pharisees or Catholic Church, passing off the traditions of men as authoritative. 2. Threat of Withdrawal. I knew the history of the church in dealing with dissent. If my conscience couldn't go along with a teaching or accept an unbiblical doctrine in silence, what was going to happen?… Read more »
Donna, I think I know who you are…will have to look your story up. Praise the Lord you humbly and boldly stand for the Lord now. I am encouraged to see that you do not allow those throwing the "guilt wrench" into the conversations to back down, but that you boldly share what true forgiveness through Christ is! We once were..but thank God, we are new creatures!
To concerned: it's the fact that Donna was one of the harshest judges and can see that and can admit that that makes her one of the more interesting stories in a good while.
Imagine, that, someone she judged harshly in the past, were to come to this site, and here she is, admitting and maybe even apologizing?
Isn't that one of the points of Kevin's little project? Healing? Forgiveness? What if true change started with Donna Bennum, and we just haven't seen it unfold yet?
Exactly, Frank. Everyone who tells their story gives someone else still in the sect a little more boldness to either stand up for change or seek God outside their manmade sectarian battle lines.
OK, so several people have told their stories and yes each one has given rise to others to speak up about the impact of this (OK I'll call it "sect"). But as Kevin and others express the need for change, they are woefully wishing for these Anonymous preachers and teachers to admit their wrong doings and lead in a new direction. That Will Not Happen. It takes Courage and Strength within one's self. The kind of Courage and Strength that Donna has shown to those of you still locked in the sect's control. Take her lead in how to break… Read more »
KF, I appreciate where you're coming from, execept that the more extreme abuses happened decades ago, making legal action futile as I see it. The human costs of attempted legal action on real families today–many of whom have moved on–I personally think is counterproductive. That's just my opinion. And for the record, my goal isn't to change the sect. It's a manmade sect, and has been from day one. I'd be perfectly happy if it closed its doors tomorrow. However, I haven't made closing the sect's doors a goal of this blog, because I am most concerned with changing hearts… Read more »
What "extreme abuses" are we talking about here specifically? Let's not exaggerate the truth now.
Perhaps you have not read several passages throughout this blog that gave specifics of what children in this sect were exposed to. Being told how to urinate for fear of masturbation, being yelled at by teachers, being encircled by members and criticized for their appearance and other demeaning and demoralizing actions by adults against children who were not their own. You may not be a parent whose child was exposed to these and other cruel behaviors, but just hearing this about other children makes me very angry about what may have been done to my children by this sect. I… Read more »
One of the direct effects of the constant teaching against masturbation when children are present is "sexualized children". It is very disturbing to adults to hear children expressing knowledge of sex at such an early age when they should not have that knowledge. There was no discretion on sexual teachings or mockery of married people having sex. In Phoenix the teaching preacher from Albuquerque was ridiculing me Sunday morning class "saying that all we think about on Sundays morning is fulfilling the lust of our flesh" My wife had asked him if it was proper to have sex on Sunday… Read more »
Just the fact that the church makes people feel like there MAY be something wrong with having sex with your spouse on Sunday morning tells you something about the church's habit of making up extra-biblical doctrines out of whole cloth. Lust within marriage is not a sin, in fact, it's a healthy feeling given by God to spouses to foster a strong and spiritually unshakable union to help ensure a lifelong marriage. Marital sex, being created by God and blessed by God, cannot be put into a category of sinful "lust of the flesh," or otherwise regulated at the whim… Read more »
Are you a preacher at your current coc? Do they teach against "homosexual acts?"
Anonymous 6:25 What I don't think is being realized the impact that these are having on our children when it comes time to decide if they want to become members of the church. Not only in the subject that you were talking about, but the whole notion of how the church is treating its members. I had spoke with some of the children from my congregation and it was said the a lot of them won't join the church because if its practices, not the fact that they disagree with biblical teaching, but for the fact of how the both… Read more »
Thank you Lynn, I would like to say to all active member that if you are not getting the love and respect you deserve as a Christian consider fleeing the church to the spiritual land of Egypt. Joseph and Mary had to flee with their son to physical Egypt when the life of their son was threatened. When it was safe to return God called them back out of Egypt. I left the church in 2002 and God did not kill me, curse me, or harm me in any way. I still study my bible and I still get understandings.… Read more »
To answer Arthur's question, no I'm not a preacher, and yes, homosexual acts are taught against anywhere I've ever been.
Anon 7:40, thank you, this is an excellent point. I should point out, however, that one should not wait "in the wilderness" for SCOC to reform as if that is the only place one can truly attend conscientiously. While Christians can exist, grow, and even thrive for periods of time apart from a local church family, we are made for community and need a church home. There are no perfect churches, but there are a lot of them that are not abusive. Find one and connect with other (imperfect) believers.
Phobia indoctrination was commonly taught. Christians are systematically made to be phobic about ever leaving "the one true church". Constant stories were being told about all the bad things that happened to those who left up to and including death. For a long time I believed these "horror" stories about God causing people to go crazy with delusions or diseases like cancer, etc. This is really slandering our good God. God is much more patient and loving than that. Why tell such stories that are not true?
To Kevin You mention the need for a community among ChristiansHow large is this community of your desire. Does it extend outside the USA? unlike SCOCWhat is it's structure? What is the Church Home?We are a world community. Your God created the Earth not just the USA according to the Bible. What's he/she got against the rest of the world?Yes phobias, fears, scrutiny, that's what kept my wife in that cult and still does today. It was like being left for another man, but that man dies 2000 years ago. But she still lives him and is afraid to leave… Read more »
KF 8:21, my Christian community encompasses the whole world, wherever believers exists, in whatever culture they exist, and whatever name is on the door of their churches (or lack of a name in the case of home fellowships or underground churches meeting out of view of repressive governments). That doesn't mean God approves of all churches–it means "the Lords knows those who are His" whether they are mistaken on "churchology" or not. Unlike the teachings of SCOC, God isn't telling people to join or follow a physical body of people, i.e. a particular "One True Church" here on Earth. To… Read more »
Kevin you are excellent at adding critical thinking to the conversations on this blog. You chose precise thoughts to examine and give me pause to consider my own thoughts more accurately. God is LOVE As I read it and consider it you are correctLove is something we are born with and needs to be nurtured. Love is something that is beyond our control. We can't turn off love but we can deny it to others if we choose to do so. Anger we choose to turn on and off. Were are not born with anger. Hatred is an exaggeration of… Read more »
KF, thank you for the compliment. I'm impressed with your open-mindedness. Too often, open-mindedness is an altar upon which critical thinking is mercilessly slaughtered. 🙂 That doesn't have to be the case, though. If we can't be open to the idea that we're wrong on some things–maybe many things–then we can't grow intellectually or spiritually. This is true of believers and atheists alike. I'm a child of the 80's myself, and listened to some Elvis Costello in my high school and college years. Thanks for introducing us to that song. Did you know that Elvis is a believer? His "Peace,… Read more »
A lot of evil comes from selfishness and a lack of love. There is a reason why a carnal mind is death. Carnality if of the flesh. A lack of love is largely portrayed in how people deal with each other. I choose to be this way to fulfill what I want at that time. I can withhold good things from you because of how I feel about you and/or because I cherish others over you. I can choose to help you or deride you based upon how I feel about you. I can choose to not give you the… Read more »
Please read the book combatting cult mind control by Steven Hassan. Although it is about his experience with the "moonies" many teachings overlap with COC.
Anon 5:58AM I read the Hassan book. Beyond Belief, Jenna Miscavige-Hill (Scientology) really reminds me of the Stanton sect. Banished – Lauren Drain & Twisted Scriptures – Chrnalogar are great books. These books show how negative conditioning over time turns into brainwashed believers that grow tolerant of destructive behavior and thought processes and become enslaved to serving authority figures no matter the price essentially becoming willing victims.
Yes I have always wondered how do destructive leaders do it? How do they get people to willing follow and take all the abuse that the leaders dish out. Steve Hassan explains some of it; the methods of control. The first thing that is attacked is the self esteem and when the self esteem is low enough you become dependent on other for your self respect. You become an emotional slave to the abusive leader looking and hoping for some approval and love but it never comes. Sad to think I was an emotional slave for twelve years but I… Read more »
Thank you for sharing your book recommendations. I've not read them, but I have seen many examples of emotional and intellectual slavery over the years. When people do not feel free to hold their own opinion, much less form it of their own critical thinking, and express it freely, they are enslaved to other fallible humans. Once people in SCOC are free from those bonds, they'll never turn back. This blog is about helping people see the bonds in the first place.
Can't agree more than with Donna's March 19th, 2015 at 10:22am comment. It's sad to see this cult destroying families. If I'd only knew what they were really about 20 years ago. Yet through their deceit in not revealing what should be revealed before one is baptized is completely being dishonest. Then when you catch on what they are about you are always a member no matter if you leave or not. Or you may be withdrawn from. Nonmember or not. Totally can understand KF frustrations. Anyone being critical of KF have you experienced what he had gone through? If… Read more »
Yes, if it doesn't happen to you it's different.. I know a few members still in the congregation that don't agree with the things that are being done to families…so because it does not affect them it seems to not matter to the full extent..
Absolutely agree. I was one of those who didn't do much when someone was cut off. There were times when a relative who I felt needed love more than being cut off and I told his immediate family to keep in touch but they really didn't until it was too late. He ended up completely losing his mind. He was very young. He needed a support system and love after being raised around a divorce and dysfunction, not the hate that is taught there as bringing someone to repentance. I still regret that but at the same time I wasn't… Read more »
Wildlife observers saw something they thought strange one day on the African savanna. A group of gazelle's were feeding within one hundred yards of a pride of lions who were also feeding. The gazelles had learned that when the lions were feeding they would not go after other gazelle's and it was safe for them to go near and feed. This same deceived mind exists in people as well; when the oppressors are going after a person in the group the rest of the group feels safe because it is not them. In Nazi Germany many people did nothing when… Read more »
Very insightful observations, Anon 12:33. Thank you for your contribution to the conversation here.
Yes I agree… live by the sword, die by the sword isn't just literal. It applies in every action or inaction. As hurtful as it is to be dying inside sometimes due to the disconnections, I am also aware that their turn will follow. They or their children will too be cut off at some point. They will truly REAP WHAT THEY SOW as it is happening now and it will continue.
Interesting seeking with your 11:06 comment concerning raising your hand in objection with the withdrawal. That is something I had never seen done. I wonder if it is the fear members have if they do object and the consequences? Silly question of course it is. More do need to be bold as you were. I asked my wife why she never defended me when they withdrew from me. Answer was no answer. When everyone knew I was a nonmember. I asked for what was said. Still have not gotten a reply. I can only imagine the lies that were told… Read more »
The sad thing is your son and daughter heard it and they will not open up about it either. I would never let anyone talk about my husband and father or in this case my sonthat way. I should have been there. I wonder what they would have done if I had been there, I am Craig's mother. I love my family and my daily prayer is for all of them to get our off this ugly cult. It is very difficult for me to not discuss it with family so instead I share this website with as many people… Read more »
If one spouse is not in the church they try to totally control the other spouse and kids…. They do not allow you to talk about the church or talk about any one in it for the most.. when I went in I wasn't really allowed to talk to anyone about the scriptures or anything.. Didn't take me long to open my eyes and realize that this was on the border of psychopathic
Jo, you being there wouldn't have changed a thing and would have just reinforced their "persecution complex." Your daughter-in-law needs to be persuaded in love that the church is wrong, IMO. That's going to take time, persistence, and patience, I think. God bless, I hope and pray for spiritual reconciliation for all the families that have been damaged by Stanton.
Jo, I'm glad that you are on this website! I hope it helps you and your family, and Craig too! Craig, is your wife the daughter of a long time Christian in the group in Portland? Does she have a brother that died when he was around 17? If so, I knew her when she was a child and a teenager-Portland is he congregation I was baptized in. I moved in 1989, to Florida. If it's the same preacher, he also is a son of a long time Christian in the group. Is the other teacher still the female teacher… Read more »
Hi Debby yes that is my wife as you described. I met you and your husband on your visits out this way. Actuydid the work with him one night. Same ole preacher for past 19 years who hasn't raised another consistent one. He is the only one right now. Actually he has preached for close to 25 years I believe. The teacher is someone else who you would know her family. Teachers have been up and down in Portland. This one is the preachers sympathizer. A softy. You can't be critical towards him without her turning it back on you.… Read more »
I thought I knew you Craig!! So glad you are here, but so sorry for your situation. I was fortunate that my husband saw things the way I did. I didn't know it at the time, as we didn't talk about it with each other-for fear of getting not just ourself withdrawn from but for possibly getting the other one withdrawn from. Sometimes it wasn't not the fear of what they would do to me that stopped me, but to my husband. There were so many times I wanted to comfort him and talk with him when I saw him… Read more »
To Kevin, Would you ask your mom to post her story? I am curious what her experience has been with all this? It doesn't seem to me like anyone has mentioned her? I grew up in one of the Arizona congregations and my parents are both still members. What I've learned about marriage I've learned by their great example. You can't condemn the whole church for a few ungodly members. My experience growing up in the church was a good one. Yes they were strict but both of my parents loved me and all my siblings. As a parent myself… Read more »
To "someone out there," my mom has told me she doesn't read and won't post to the blog. I don't blame her for that, although I wish like crazy that she would open her mind and confront the reality of Stanton's unbiblical history. What a testimony she could have to come out of it and be a mentor to many others who got caught up in it over the years. But I have all but given up hope on that. I have a good relationship with her and love her and my dad dearly, but we have agreed to disagree… Read more »
I'm not interested in throwing around the word "cult" because it tends to inflame people, but to "someone out there," I think it's worth noting that a "cult" does not mean a religious group where people are physically restrained from leaving. In fact, most "cults" do not use such tactics, but instead use fear and intimidation to keep people in the fold. Fear, as in "if you leave you're going to hell or God could kill you in a car crash." Or intimidation, as in "if you vocalize your disagreement on this doctrine, you're going to be withdrawn from." I… Read more »
Thanks for the reply. I'm glad you have a good relationship with your mom inspite of your differing views.
I never experienced any of the harsh treatment others claimed to have. I read earlier in a different post that the church is making changes for the better. Who knows maybe your site has helped them examine their past teaching to come to a more loving understanding of the bible.
Good luck to everyone in the pursuit of finding God through his son Jesus.
Oh one more thing. I totally agree with you on the love-based parenting over rule-based parenting. But, I think that wasn't only the coc but the older generation as a whole. My husband who wasn't raised in the church said his parents were just as strict and they never even said "I love you" to him or his brothers.
So Kevin maybe it was just the way people were back then.
Yes, there was definitely a cultural "thing" back then that has significantly changed. No doubt.
I like you, Someone out there.
I do too, actually. "someone out there" seems to be a fair-minded person. I've never said the SCOC was pure evil. Yes, K.F.'s letter may push toward that end of the spectrum, but that's not at all where I am. Let's put it this way…there are members of many unbiblical groups who have great values and families and parents that stay together. This is entirely different from the question whether they have an accurate view of the God of the Bible. My purpose with this blog is to expose factual errors and unbiblical doctrines in Stanton's history that show the… Read more »
But Kevin, can't you see what you are doing? You are now the one who gives the correct understanding of the scriptures, sets the standards for how to walk in them and the as to what is right and what is wrong. Its animal farm all over again. Someone in the barn yard has to stand up and now declare "that was wrong, follow me as I follow Christ". And yes I believe it is a follow me 'thing' because you believe YOU are right and the Stanton Churches are wrong (there you have declared a judgment and as a… Read more »
Thanks both of you. I try to be fair but I agree with concerned on this one. Where should people attend instead of A SCOC Congregation Kevin? I have been searching out different churches(religious organizations) and have trouble with all I've looked into. A LOT of these RO are so into Christmas and that is a hard thing to look past when it says clearly in the bible not to cut down and decorate trees like the heathen. Also, I looked into the history of Christmas and Jesus would want nothing to do with it. I'm still searching but so… Read more »
"someone out there," your question is based on the premise that there is one identifiable chain of churches we must interview to make sure they have all their doctrines "just right." I completely understand the lure of this point of view. But it is not Biblical, and it is precisely this misunderstanding of unity that causes such division between believers. The church Jesus died for is not a "chain" of churches but saved individuals who collectively make up "the church." Only the Lord truly knows all those who are His. No church or chain of churches has all of the… Read more »
"Concerned" – This idea that your are simply standing up for your version of the truth like I am, so we are the same and I ought to leave you alone to teach what you want is an old and tired refrain from Stanton leadership–and completely unbiblical. Let me ask this question of you: Which of us insists that those who are not affiliated with them are going to hell? Hint: It's not me. Yes, you have the right to proclaim your opinions as loudly as you want to. But please don't run from them. Say them boldly and clearly.… Read more »
And BTW, I'm not the enemy here. I have no animosity toward individuals in the church. I'd love nothing more than to have a cup of coffee, hug it out, and talk scripture with anyone on "the inside" who is so inclined.
"Concerned," your view of my "leadership" is colored by ideas that are uniquely 20th century on the heals of the industrial revolution. During the era in which your ideas of leadership were formed, it was thought of almost purely in terms of organizational leadership. For someone to "lead" they had to be trying to amass followers to themselves. So schools of management formed, and both business and religious organizations started focusing on numerical growth. Balance sheets, membership numbers, etc. From this societal trend we got the Fortune 500 and the church-growth movement alike. However, a more biblical view of leadership… Read more »
Good post Someone out there. This blog is a major venting place for the many you have seen in the church that didn't like something for one reason or another. Your not going to find anyone agreeing with you if you are supporting The Stanton Churches of Christ (Kevin Harper's label). But I agree with you. They are Christians that are fighting hard against the world, teaching door to door to spread the gospel, teachers, preachers, and members all living by what they preach. So Someone Out There I hear you enjoyed your post.
@concerned & someone out there: Your said that the SCOC are "Christians fighting hard against the world, teaching door to door to spread the gospel, with teachers, preachers, and members all living by what they preach." Wow, what a stunning difference between self-image and the reality of the situation. Let's take this point by point: 1) Fighting hard against the world. Really? When's the last time you heard SCOC teachers and preachers speaking out against the sins of our modern culture? It is evangelical Christians who are doing that. SCOC stays in their own little bubble, preferring to fly under… Read more »
Agree, Kevin.1)"Fighting hard against the world" Typically means disconnecting from those who raised you and loved you, especially if they disagree with Merie Weiss's teachings. The "fight" is just "becoming a martyr" and cutting off those who love you. You can't be "fighting" anything if you cut off everyone. You don't even get in the ring. You just concede and say "they are all so wrong" so you can justify quitting on your relationships. But what you're TRULY fighting is not "the flesh" but rather YOUR CONSCIENCE that is screaming that this just doesn't quite seem right. Slowly, you are… Read more »
Teaching door to door? Oh dear me.. Hahaha.. What they are doing is in no way teaching.. They do not go out of their bubble into the world at all…I saw that just after 2 month of being in..
Seeking.. I am soooo giggling at "you don't even get into the ring".. Good one!.. Their so called door to door has always made me laugh…
See what I mean Someone Out There? Kevin graciously proved my point.
Concerned, do you believe Merie's cult is the one and only true "church"?
Craig obviously Concerned isn't all that concerned, except for Merie's church. But Concerned is a TRUE CERTIFIABLE example of someone in the SCOC. A lot of us are here for help with the damage this cult has caused, but Concerned is more worried about mocking us and NOT CONCERNED about showing Christ's LOVE. Does the word LOVE bother you, Concerned? I know it's difficult to exercise love there, so I imagine you're very weak in this area. Does it bother you that, as we've been taught by example, we talk about our experiences in your religion as you speak about… Read more »
@Concerned, could you graciously restate the point you're taking about? Was it that people on the blog express disagreement with their experiences at Stanton? Because at least this blog welcomes disagreement in the spirit of friendly discussion. Stanton doesn't even do that.
And concerned, just remember that if Kevin had the same kind of love and understanding of the gospel as the evangelist in Spring Valley does, you wouldn't even be given a "nickel's worth" of his attention!
Classic Merie cult followers answer is they have no answer to questions by those who have them figured out. My wife won't answer my questions. She refers me to the hypocrite preacher who still hasn't answered my text messages. The dictators won't answer because they have no answer other than the wrong answer. So let me see if concerned will answer my question and my follow up questions.
Concerned as I'm thinking you are pro Merie's cult. Preachers and teachers living by what they preach? Example in Portland with the hypocrite was the worst example I've seen. Horrible example and he has preached close if not 25 years. What a joke. He should've been banished years ago from preaching. I call him a hypocrite because he is one. I'll call him one to his face when I see him. And that will be being nice about it. I have a list of poor examples that he has been. Never heard or gotten a confession for some of them.… Read more »
Hey KF, you got booted. I guess someones ears are to pure to hear. I was enjoying your rants. Please post again
Anon 11:15, no, KF didn't "get booted." I just deleted his comment about giving people the middle finger. Big difference. 🙂 He knows he's welcome to post here, but I do encourage commenters to keep it clean and classy. I don't require that everyone who posts agrees with me, or even that they're a believer, just that they respect the intent and tone of the blog. I realize there are a lot of new readers lately. First, thank you for reading, joining in the conversation, and sharing the blog with family members. The more you read, the more you'll understand… Read more »
Sorry to have crossed the line Kevin , I do understand what this blog offers those who are looking for God. Yes my involvement here is to warn people who have been captured by this cult, that following their rules will not take you to God, but ruin your families. I'm not looking for a Christian God Never really give it much concern, so I do not live in the enormous fear that the SCOC has put upon it's entire membership. I hear it in the cries on this blog of fear and yet people who SAY they are Concerned,… Read more »
I agree. They DO NOT Prepare you for life. They keep you in a bubble with your head down.
When I came back to the church in 99' I noticed that the people at the doors were different than they were in the early/mid 80's. I, also, noticed the ways that the members at the doors were interacting with the nonmembers. Some would even get into arguments and offend the people at the doors. It wasn't the gospel that offended them, but the ways in which they were approached and dealt with. With so many doors that had been knocked so many of them didn't get to hear anything through all of that aggression, then they would wonder why… Read more »
And lest anyone level the claim that I "hate" the COC, I do no such thing. I still attend one and love God's people in (and out of) them.
Are you saying SOME people who are in the SCOC are going to heaven? What about some Catholics? Jehovah witnesses? Mormons?
What about Muslims?
I don't think there is more than one way to get to heaven. Sorry, but someone has to be right. That is what I'm searching for. So far to ME the SCOC is the closest thing I've found to the truth. Who knows maybe I will become Amish.
1. Are you saying that ALL people in the SCOC are going to heaven? 2. Are you saying definitively that NO people outside the SCOC are going to heaven? 3. Can you defend either of those answers from scripture? 4. When you say SCOC is "the closest thing I've found to the truth," isn't it true that for the person who is seeking, their understanding of truth will necessarily change and mature with time? So doesn't it follow that the "closest thing you've found to the truth" is contingent on where your spiritual knowledge, experience, and maturity has taken you… Read more »
Of course I don't believe all members of SCOC are good Christians. Will they go to heaven? I don't know. How could I know? I think if you seek God with a pure heart and follow your conscience you will be in his favor. This is the point I have reached so far in my life. In seeking him so far the SCOC has made the most sense to me because they do sincerely try to follow the bible. They have come around on certain things after thorough studying like: Masturbation is a private sin, women wearing jeans, Disneyland is… Read more »
Haha, I don't think you want to go there. 🙂 I'm not arguing for Catholocism in the slightest…but consider that the whole Suitcase of Books argument from non-member classes gone by was designed to convince people that truth DOESN'T change, and that because the Catholic church, and every other organized denomination, HAS changed, therefore they DON'T have the truth. Except when it's convenient for SCOC, they carve out an exception for themselves. When THEY change, they are growing and "coming around" on certain things. When others do it, it is proof they don't "have the truth." I want to encourage… Read more »
A weird thought I had once while reading the bible (I can't remember the scriptures) was that we will be judged on what kind of person we are as well as being a believer in Jesus Christ. Like Gandhi was not a Christian but was a good person.
Just a thought I had. Anyway, I have to go.
Well said Someone Out There, The entire Bible supports your statement 'I don't think there is more than one way to get to heaven'. And I also believe the Stanton Churches of Christ are the closest thing I have found as well.
"Search the scriptures, in them you think you have salvation." By these is how we know the difference between right and wrong both in the COC and in the rest of the religious world. Remember when Jesus came to woman at the well. She believed in Jesus and they had a copy of the OT, yet Jesus still told them they were wrong, because of the ways in which they worshiped. The COC is the closest to correct teaching I have ever seen. I was raised in the off COC, I have attended the Lutherans, Pentecostal, and have a library… Read more »
Lynn, when we consider which churches teach the truth we must also gauge this by the evidence of LOVE. Have you heard the Christian song "Love is the Evidence"? If we base the truth of a church merely on legalities, then we are no better than the Pharasees AND the Stanton churches and all other would fail miserably. Man will never get ALL laws of God perfectly because God does not want our service to be based on legalism, but rather LOVE. (And of course the gospel of Christ). The church of Christ I now attend is not part of… Read more »
I agree Donna. They are showing some of their lack of love in the strictness they demanding of the law. We see where David and his men ate the shew bread and the disciples ate of the corn on Sabbath day. Through all of this I can see why David would rather be punished by God instead of man.
I agree I will not find happiness here. I held on for a long time, but could take it no more.
Well folks I guess my story brought out it some of its intended purpose. I would first like to thank Kevin for making the decision to post my story. I offered my letter to him for consideration as an outside the church perspective and made clear in the letter that I am not a follower of this church. Those of you who would criticize Kevin for posting the story are acting as the leaders of your church have for decades. Refusing to hear or acknowledge viewpoints that differ from their own. So thank you Kevin for allowing these people to… Read more »
To K.F. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I know there are hundreds of men that were alienated by this extremist sect's bizarre control of its members. It is ironic they target you by accusing you of only caring about money yet your money continues to benefit them. You said little about your now adult children, protecting them but sharing some of the negative impact. You only have to see the Facebook page of kids raised in this sect to see more of the fall-out from this sect. Your perspective is important.
To Anonymous at 8:43 Thank you also for contributing to sharing truths about this sect's child abuse. Did I say child abuse? Well if I behaved towards my kids like I have heard the teachers and preachers did towards children in the sect, I think someone would have had me checked out by Child Welfare officials as an abusive parent. But because they can hide like cowards under the guise of Church leaders they are not suspected or detected unless other's in the church report those actions and incidents. Believe me you cowards, if I find out from my children… Read more »
Do you realize Jesus was a Jew? So your Jew bashing is unwelcome here.
I'm just fine with Jews. Spent most of my childhood years with Jewish kids in honor classes. Yes Jews are well educated people who pray just as much as any other religious group. So why then don't Jews follow Christ. Or do they have doubts and questions about him that their Rabbis are not afraid to answer? Ask a question or express a doubt ? Not in an SCOC church you won't. I have welcomed many people of many religions into my house Atheists, Jews, Catholics,Muslims even the unappreciative members of your church. Would you do the same? Are you… Read more »
I too (Gary and paula)am curious about the roots of the church since you say there can only be one, then you should be able to trace back to the introduction of who acquired the first kj copy? I'm trying the research myself, can anyone at least give me some history and insight behind the church merie branched off of just to start out?
Can you clarify what you mean by the "first kj copy?"
If you read the tabs up at the top of the site, you should get a pretty detailed history of the Stanton sect, and Merie's involvement in starting it. I've offered documentary evidence where possible. Let me know if you have questions.
To Christy and God is My Savior, You ask about why I include stories of CF's life with me before being baptized. The answer is that it will help others understand that CF and I were a happy couple before that time and that the happiness was taken from us by teaching that sent her in an entirely new direction away from me, away from her large family, away from friends of ours, and again these were teaching by men who did not allow any questioning. When someone makes such a dramatic change in their personality, those who know then… Read more »
I can relate to your experience where upon your wife's conversion, she alienated everyone else in the family. This process happened in my family as well. It has taken years of trying to patch up what were previously longstanding relationships. Some of them successfully, some of them not. I know for my sisters, who were teens at the time of my parents' conversion to the sect, it was hugely destabilizing. The teen years are hard enough without mom and dad being pulled in different directions, and the entire family being pulled away from all the friends and church associations they… Read more »
Kevin I think this crude comment should be deleted. Let's try to keep it classy people!
Done. Thank you everyone for helping me keep an eye on inappropriate comments. 🙂
Joseph Stalin stated once that if any of his citizens hear anyone criticizing the government that they should report it. Then Stalin stated that a young boy heard his parent talking bad about Stalin and told his teacher at school and when the boy got home his parents were gone and the boy had done the right thing by reporting his parents. After that there was no more rebellion to his authority, no one could trust anyone else, husband did not trust his wife mother did not trust her children. Stalin kept 220,000,000 citizens in fearful obedience to his oppression… Read more »
Anon 5:44, words are definitely one of life's most powerfully motivating forces. Which is why Jesus is called the Word (Logos). But I'm not real clear how you're applying this. Whose angry words are you referring to?
This sounds like the rant of a mental patient. 🙂
Anon 12:47, insulting people probably doesn't help faciltate conversation and understanding. 🙂 Just sayin'
I'm sure Jesus did not take up collections from his flock of peasants that followed him. No instead he brought them gifts, gave them education, helped heal the sick, care for the disabled and welcomed strangers. Does this church do these Christ-like actions? NO. But they do insist that their members give all they can, devote most if not all of their free time to working UN-compensated for the church, even if it means spending little time with their own spouses, children and extended family. Careful and calculated strategies to isolate, separate, and control its hopeful believers. To Annonymous at… Read more »
This guy needs medication and a life!
Oh! But there are those of us who DO CARE about KF's opinion! You are not being forced to read this blog. You can only appreciate it if you have been under the bondage of this sect AND to be blessed to be on the outside looking in. Life on the outside is not about mandatory attendance and being accountable to MEN. It is a freedom to stand before God and serve Him BECAUSE YOU LOVE HIM AND DESIRE TO SERVE HIM. I know ones in the SCoC that have been in for decades yet cannot say (even within themselves)… Read more »
Oh there you are my Anonymous critic. You know if you do not like what I'm saying then stop reading and commenting on what I write. Is that b. s. in your comment that you inserted for no reason supposed to get me to stop. It would seem to me that there are people who care to hear what I have to say.Although I grew up in New York learning the Brooklyn alphabet and spent four years in the Navy talking like a sailor, I have not lowered this conversation to the level that you have in trying to prevent… Read more »
To Anonymous at 9:02 Pm No Thank You to your offer of medication. I am quite sane unlike the misguided members of the SCOC that drink the cult's Koolaid for the Brain. Or is the medication to lessen their pain over the years of torment, fear and shame cast upon them by the teachers and preachers. Clear your own mind of the delusions you have lived and recognize that the "World" is passing you by. You are a small and dying cult that remains in hiding like the KKK and and American Nazis.Your doctrines mean nothing to 99% of the… Read more »
K.F., I really don't want names to be brought into this blog. If you want to publish your email address and have people contact you separately, that's fine. But I have a very specific purpose in hosting this blog and all the comments, and I have to be careful of the "slippery slope" of where this could head. I hope you understand.
And I hope you are able to reconnect with your daughter soon.
To This guy at 9:06 You have got your comment backwards. It is the SCOC that is obsessed with sex and sex positions and all things related to sex. I know that because our sex life completely changed after she was baptized. She started following all those Rules about marital sex. I'm sure you are familiar with the rules put out by this sect. So who's really obsessed with sex. Can you tell me where these rules have come out of the Bible other than from the perverted interpretations and inquisitions into members private lives and marriage beds by the… Read more »
I want to address the "closest thing I can find" argument I keep hearing about SCOC. Several have said the church is the "closest" thing they can find to a Biblical church, and we ought to accept SCOC based on that. The problem with this claim is that SCOC says it is the ONLY thing you can find, not the BEST thing you can find. This is a pretty high bar, and if you're going to make that claim, you better be able to back it up with facts. Unfortunately, the facts destroy this claim completely, so why should we… Read more »
Kevin- I believe KF’s post is needed, as he said, from an ‘outsider’s view’. Thanks for publishing it Kevin.
I agree. I was torn about it initially. But I think the non-believer’s point of view is important to hear. Thanks, K.F. for trusting me enough to publish it.