Merie relished the word “militant.” Perhaps she was militant, but I think in all the wrong ways. She wasn’t afraid to refuse mentoring from older and wiser Christians her entire life, for instance. She fearlessly split churches (the only legitimate reason for Biblical withdrawal). She was even withdrawn from for her divisiveness in 1958 and never “made herself right” (Stanton’s lingo).
She attacked the elders and preachers of her day relentlessly in her open letters, militantly and publicly. This is also something the modern SCOC withdraws for. She attacked and separated herself from friends and family, dividing marriages (including her own) and separating fathers and mothers from each other and from their kids. All this was in pursuit of her little experiment in “militancy.”
As a result of that “militant” legacy, Stanton fancies themselves as “militant Christians.” They use that phrase to make themselves feel like the “fearless warriors” out fighting God’s battles in the popular culture. They are, after all, the “militant ones,” while the rest of the Christian world is just “playing church” on Sunday morning. Or so they would have you believe.
What a bunch of complete and utter nonsense. Like so many other false narratives Stanton loves to spin, their “militant” persona is nothing more than fan fiction.
In reality, neither their leaders nor their members are willing to drop anything to follow Jesus, much less sacrifice everything. They’re not even willing to put themselves in harm’s way—professionally, socially, or physically—to be a light in this dark world.
Let your light so shine before men? Hardly. When you’re recruiting people into an abusive and authoritarian man-made sect, it’s much easier to keep that hidden under a bushel. They have no advertising, no public signage, and only invite new members through a carefully presented “nonmember class,” not the public assembly. That is grooming, not evangelism.
In fact, they don’t take public and vocal stances on anything to counter the culture, like abortion, or adoption, or home schooling, or caring for the fatherless in foster care. They just hide in the shadows. What cowardice.
My dad used to sit in his study reading the Bible and various books of history. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire was one. Another was Fox’s Book of Martyrs. That is a particularly eye-opening book, telling the stories of believers in the last 2,000 years who suffered greatly for the cause of Christ.
Burned at the stake, tortured for their faith, and ostracized or killed for speaking out against their oppressors; those people had a faith that wouldn’t die. They truly understood the meaning of the phrase “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.” (Matthew 10:28). They lived out their Christian faith fearlessly, and paid the ultimate price for it.
Did you know there are millions of believers around the world right now, at this very moment, suffering imprisonment, torture, rape, and bloody execution for the cause of Christ? Not to convert someone to some particular sect, mind you, but simply to share the love of Jesus with them so their lives can be changed.
Some are suffering at the hands of Islamist captors. Others are persecuted and oppressed by the pagan population around them, like in some radical Hindu provinces of India. And did you know that Christians in modern communist countries like China, Vietnam, and Cuba suffer daily persecution and imprisonment from the government, just as in the first century? Do you think Christians during the rise of communism in the 20th century, and the subsequent Cold War, didn’t suffer for the cause of Christ?
One of the greatest testimonies of the truth of Jesus’ resurrection is that his closest followers—the Twelve—gave their lives affirming their testimony. If the resurrection was a lie, would they all have gone to their graves with such fearlessness? Of course not. If based on a lie, Christianity would have just been a blip on the radar screen of history. But it’s not.
Where are the radical followers of Jesus in Stanton? What impact have they made, locally, regionally, or globally? Does anyone even in their own communities know they exist besides the few who attend, and their families and extended families? Why don’t they stake out public positions and advocate for the fatherless or the unborn in today’s culture? Do they even care about the “orphans and widows” in this world? Why do they hide behind a shroud of secrecy and seek to deflect public attention, rather than invite it, as the first century church did?
The more you pull this thread, the more their militancy propaganda unravels. Where are all the Stanton members running into danger to share the Good News with people living under oppressive regimes? Do those people not need God as much as they do? Do they care enough to even pray for today’s persecuted believers they’ve never met? The first century church did. The wider Christian church does. Stanton doesn’t. Because, of course, there are no other Christians according to them. What arrogance.
Where are all the Stanton missionaries working to learn a foreign language so they can share Jesus with those populations? The rest of the Christian world does this. Are Stanton evangelists even talking about the need to share the joy of knowing Jesus with the world, much less actually doing anything about it? Of course not. They should be overflowing with the joy of the Lord, running into persecution in order to share it. Non-SCOC Christians are. Where is Stanton?
I have a book on my shelf called Jesus Freaks. It is published by a Christian ministry called Voice of the Martyrs, an organization that tells the modern stories of today’s Christians living and evangelizing in the underground church in many parts of the world. The book is a modern version of Fox’s Book of Martyrs.
What’s eye-opening about Jesus Freaks is the vibrant faith of modern Christians who really are putting it all on the line to share the love and hope found in God with a dark and cruel world. Does Stanton do any of this? I hear nothing but the deafening sound of silence.
One of the coolest things about today’s persecuted church is its positive message. It’s not about playing the victim card, or the woe-is-me drama. It’s about the mission of sharing hope and love at all cost. There are very few people even talking about the persecuted church, outside of Voice of the Martyrs organization. But when the stories of the persecuted church do get told, they are uplifting and encouraging, because they are not focused on self, but on others.
In 50 years time, the first century church had turned the world upside down with a revolutionary message in a largely pagan world. In the 50 years of Stanton’s existence, have they turned a single neighborhood upside down, much less the world? Stanton’s fruit (whether you measure it by impact or by radical discipleship) is conspicuously absent. Unbelievably, they don’t even have elders appointed yet, something the first century church did very early in its history.
The idea that evangelical Christians in America and abroad are just sipping lattes and only pretending to follow Jesus is just plain wrong. You’ve been sold another lie. It’s much easier to put others down than to radically follow Jesus yourself.
Rather than slam the Christian community doing the heavy lifting of sharing the gospel with a lost world, maybe try looking a little more inward. Perhaps the problem is that Stanton is better at producing spiritual cowards than leaders.
Boom!!
And there it is!!
Stanton's leaders are burrowing in holes, and hiding their lights under a bushel.
When the world is crying out for Biblical Christianity, Stanton is busy playing holier than thou.
Well said, Kevin. This is definitely one of the main things that really bothered my conscience while in the group. I never was fully convinced that there were no other Christians in the world. Their lie that they are the only ones going to heaven is so harmful to themselves, especially their own children. And they aren't the only group that thinks this. I just watched the movie APOSTASY on Amazon Prime. It intrigued me because the trailer already sounded so much like the SCOC. The movie is a little slow but there is so much to it if you've… Read more »
Well said Kevin!Just to add a little more to what you were saying about the way that Merie's group evangelizes….When a member goes "out" to another congregation or to a place where no "church" is located, they are on their own. And I mean that. If you need money to rent a truck to move your things, you have to "ask" for it, which is not an easy process. When the congregation was started in Lakeland, FL, we had used song books in poor condition, chairs that were ill used and broken down. We slept on the floor of a… Read more »
M Long – I'll have to check out "Apostasy" on Amazon Prime. Sounds interesting. And yes, I just started a Patreon account for those who want to partner to build this into something bigger. I've been brainstorming about various upgrades I might make to the platform, look and feel, commenting technology, features, etc. Still in research mode on that. I could see at some point maybe producing a hardcopy book that people could hand to SCOC members. We'll see what comes of it. Even if only a couple of people donate only $5/mo., it's still a nice encouragement to grab… Read more »
Debby – Thanks for your insight into how those trips work for those "getting sent out" by SCOC. Yes, it is phenomenal the investment of time and resources mainstream Christian missionary organizations put into bringing the Gospel to the darkest corners of the world—including the strip clubs of America, BTW. A friend of mine was inspired about three years ago to leave his nice paying job and move his family to Thailand to rescue girls from the thriving sex trade over there. He and his wife stayed in the trenches for two years, and moved back to start a ministry… Read more »
Kevin, for those of us who are still a little ignorant when it comes to some of the computer stuff today, what is Patreon? Thank you!
Debby, it's where you can agree to send the recipient of the holder of the Patreon account a certain amount of money each month, like a dollar or so. Unlike crowd funding, it is a monthly draw.
Debby, yes Lynn is correct. It's simply a way for people to contribute financially to a creative project. A lot of blogs, podcasts, YouTube channels, and music artists use it.
I promise to keep writing and producing content here no matter what. But if someone wants to buy my wife a latte every now and then, I don't think she'll mind. 🙂
Also, I'm still poking around the back end of Patreon to learn all the features and how to utilize it to the fullest potential. I'll try to make a really cool experience, but bear with me. Lol
This post was needed Kevin!!
Well said!!
I like the idea of a podcast too..saw a while back someone brought it up. I'll be sure to donate!!
This makes me think of how we had to give up friends and family. How can you show them the way if you're not around them?
Hi Ronita can you tell us a little about yourself and how you came to leaving the SCOC? THANKS
Hello Ronita! It's been a very long time! How are you doing??? I'd love to hear more from you-my contact information is with Kevin, and he has my permission to give it to you if you should want to contact me!
I, too, would love to hear your story and what made you decide to leave Merie's Group. Please share if you feel up to it! Welcome to 🙂 Just made my day!
Ronita, you are right. When I was in in the 80's they taught to cut ties and I was left with no one, except for the church. That may have been by design. After I cam back around 1999 I gained a better understanding of that and didn't burn any bridges. Friends, family, and work knew I was a Christian and stood my ground, but they also got to know me AS a Christian and the relationships got stronger, yet no be unequally yoked. These scriptures summed it up for me in how this servant made sure he was in… Read more »
SCOC plan is to keep members isolated from the outside world. It appears the goal is to make you completely dependant on them.
That is why this site is so helpful because when you choose to leave, your on your own.
Ronita and anon 2:57 very true. How can you let your light shine to the world as they’d preach, yet, you keep yourself isolated. Makes no sense.
The word narcissist comes to mind… and Craig, you know what I've been dealing with.
Ronita, yes I do. Excellent point.
I will be supporting Kevin. I have a few that I watch on Patreon. Kevin's tier titles made me giggle! If everyone can support him this would be awesome! This blog is amazing! It alone has kept my family away from the church!
Thank you! I had the first subscriber sign up on Patreon, so thank you to that person as well. I will keep names private unless that person posts publicly, because I know there could be privacy issues for some of you with family in the sect. Just know that it's a real encouragement to keep building this site into something bigger and better. Things I'm thinking about: 1) A new website with a better user interface.2) Easier to use commenting system, easier to follow threads, and easier to find threads.3) A way to add polls again (Blogger's tool for this… Read more »
I will do what I can to support, however, too often in the religious world contributions are not without strings. Those who give the most think they have the most control. This is true with churches and politics.
FYI, I don't answer to anyone but God. The money is not a *need* so much as a way for others to partner with me to take the site to the next level.
This blog can be called the 'Decline and Fall of the Stanton Church of Christ'. If things continue as they are going, that's what will happen. If anyone else attended today and would like to give an update, that would be nice. As for me, today I learned that GP said in the May Trip that to maintain unity we need to put away our rights. Last I checked, our rights were given us by God, and weren't negotiable. I sure am happy the Founders of America did not take GP's advice, and gave us the Bill of Rights. The… Read more »
About Tattoos…. There has been a lot of feedback after my video where I mentioned having tattoos, so I would like to address this subject. Most choose Leviticus 19:29 to try to prove Christians should not have tattoos. Leviticus 19:28 reads: Ye shall not make any cuttings on your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord. From the context of the verses around this scripture this was instructions given to the Jews on how to not become as the heathen/idol worshippers in the lands around them. Other commands in adjacent scriptures were “… Read more »
Liberty was not to allow anything anyone feels like doing. This is a major flaw of the majority of churches outside Stanton. Also, as a mother and a wife, you are dealing with the dumbest generation in American history, and relying upon them for guidance is an almost surefire way to fail. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/301089/the-dumbest-generation-by-mark-bauerlein/9781585427123/ While emotions are powerful for mothers, the way of reason and logic should not be neglected for a childs whims. I've talked with one of your children, and she is very strong willed. While she says she has been damaged by Stanton, she has made decisions on… Read more »
Montesquieu, wow what a comment from GP. Give up your rights? I wonder where he was going with that. More craziness from the control freak. If you Montesquieu or anyone else gets access to the talks or discussions please forward them to me.
Yes, incredible, isn't it, Craig? I'm with you, trying to get copies of the May Trip discussions and talks as well. They are guarded better than Smaug guarded his jewels and gold in the awesome tale 'The Hobbit'. Smaug didn't want to share his jewels with anyone. Stanton doesn't want to share their 'truth's' with anyone. At least Smaug's jewels were 100% legitimate. The same can't be said of Stanton's 'truth's'. Funny because Smaug appropriated his hoard from the rightful owners, the dwarves, and Stanton appropriated their 'truth's' from the rightful owner as well, Jesus Christ and God. Both stagnate.… Read more »
Wow!!! That's insane!! And the sad part is many will agree and chose to give up their rights…so sad. Might as well become a terrorist!!
What rights?
Lynn – Montesqueiu said above "As for me, today I learned that GP said in the May Trip that to maintain unity we need to put away our rights."
This is true only if we have an unbiblical understanding of unity. Unity is not unanimity. Unity is oneness of purpose, in the face of our imperfect human knowledge.
This is what was said when it was questioned about taking away rights. I pasted the text below from a family member who is very much in denial:"He said “to maintain unity, we have to put something away from us… We can call it our “rights”, for instance, I have a right to think the way that I want to, NO ONE SAYS YOU CAN’T, but I don’t need to necessarily share my opinion if it’s going to cause division & strife” For example, if I like Trump & you like Hillary, then we should keep our opinions to ourselves… Read more »
I personally will reserve judgement until I hear the full context of what was said and what they mean for myself. That being said though, based on that comment you pasted, it still sounds like they aren't being honest about what is really going on. This blog isn't about subjective matters of opinion like politics. People know to keep those things to themselves and only want to discuss the specific teachings of the SCOC that they believe are false. One of the main problems, and one of the reasons why this blog even exists, is that they don't allow an… Read more »
Those are not my words…that's what was said when asked about GP's comments on giving up your rights. He didn't want to talk about it at 1st & kept beating around the bush. I think deep down he knows theybare wrong but has pressure to stay bc he still lives at home with our parents..
The group also maintains you can't talk about church related issues/disagreements with your spouse. If you do, you could be withdrawn from for murmuring/discord. If they go as far to violate the rights of what God has but together(marriage), I have no doubt GP means what he says about general members rights.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant the leaders weren't being honest when talking about what's going on with the blog and what it's about, not that person you heard this from wasn't being honest. It's well known that the leaders and teachers say one thing but don't really mean it. They may SAY you're free to think for yourself, or make your own decisions but in practice it's often the opposite. As it's been said before with the different "judgements" they make (which are often based on opinions too). If you don't agree with it or follow it they… Read more »
Yes I agree. I told him to let me know how it goes when he speaks out on what he doesn't agree on or feels a scripture is meant a different way. He will be shut down immediately & the "rights" he thinks he still has will become more clear that they are non-existent.
Agree AFP! Excellent point about look at what they do and not at how they word it. The SCOC leaders make a habit of making suggestions, yet if you go against it, you get rebuked and lose church responsibilities. For Example,the leadership suggested all the leaders of a folded church( Stanton speak for closed) go to DV's church and become indoctrinated in the KS way. It is crucial to understand the reason KS wanted them to go and be under DV is because the folded church leaders learned under DWC. However, one of the preachers and his wife choose to… Read more »
AnonymousMarch 24, 2019 at 7:53 PM Fascinating, thank you for sharing. 'For example, if I like Trump & you like Hillary, then we should keep our opinions to ourselves because otherwise we’ll cause division & strife that’s not necessary.' Well, then there can be no debates, and we are told to contend for the truth. There are too many who are emotionally involved with ideas, and they are unable to discuss ideas they don't like, but which are in the Bible, without blowing up. So, they get rid of the person dissenting. It's not always necessary to share ones opinions,… Read more »
Wow!! It's very clear plenty feel free to express their ideas on here, which is how it ought to be and there were some very good points made. Would like to respond to all, especially Donna's points on tattoos, but haven't the time. That said, what I said about GP was what I directly wrote down, as a verbatim quote from a teacher who attended the San Antonio May Trip. This teacher was reading directly from his note book. So, I'm pretty sure of the credibility. Said teacher has a habit of telling the truth, and has had this reputation… Read more »
The discussion was on the theme of the May Trip, which was unity. This is a recurring idea in Stanton, and isn't at all about ensuring they have truth, but rather about ensuring their is a chain of command that is followed. As Kevin said above, Unity is not unanimity, and as a friend of mine recently told me, Unity is not conformity. Stanton is talking more about conformity. Members are expected to conform with teachers ideas. While the teachers have some very profound wisdom, the church was designed to be a body, where all members wisdom was utilized. Interestingly,… Read more »
Great points by all above, and AOP especially. Also, freedom of speech, in politics and the church isn't about having the freedom to say things that others will like, because Stalin and Hitler allowed that too, it's about the freedom to say things people don't like to hear. That's freedom of speech. I'm not talking about promoting sin, using profanity, lying, or vulgarity either. As Protestants, we all had our start October 31st, 1517, when Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door at Wittenburg. These were his disagreements with the Catholic pope. He could have been burned at… Read more »
For, the whole purpose of the gospel is for us to be free of our sins AND THEIR CONSEQUENCES. If we cannot do this, and Stanton is in the habit of claiming many cannot, THEN WHAT WAS THE POINT OF CHRIST'S DEATH ON THE CROSS? There was no point, and there is no point in overcoming, we may as well go on sinning, as there is no hope. It is this attitude that Stanton unintentionally spreads, and that is why there is so little growth, the little growth they do have comes from their own children, who frequently fall away… Read more »
Montesqueiu – Amen. We've had our share of differences, but this is right on and deserves to be thought about deeply in the context of Stanton's legalistic manner of approaching God. You said: "[T]he whole purpose of the gospel is for us to be free of our sins AND THEIR CONSEQUENCES." Yes, yes, yes. There are often consequences in this life that God doesn't remove. But the ultimate consequences can be wiped away, no matter how egregious. That is called grace. We don't earn grace; by definition it is "unmerited favor." We sang about it a lot as kids in… Read more »
Thank you, Kevin. Certainly, there are consequences in this life that God won't be able to remove. Examples are going to jail for murder, theft, sedition (we should be seeing the entire Democrat party leadership along with Comey, Hillary, Obama, McCabe, Rosenstein, Schiff, and key members of the Russian Collusion Delusion media and tech companies there as well, for the high crime of sedition and plotting against the lawfully elected government of America -article in full on Messanonews.com). However, there is nothing that God cannot heal, and there is no depth he cannot deliver from. Stanton, relying on their subjective… Read more »
Was just reading a fabulous book this morning written by a Jewish man, Dovber Halevi, who I met 4 years ago on Linked In, before I was given a permanent Linked In ban by the leftist Jewish owners of it (They didn't like my criticism of the Communist Democrats, or my saying the Jews killed Jesus. To them this is anti-Semitic, though I am a huge fan of Israel, and think it's an oasis in the midst of the Saracen hordes of the Middle East). It's called 'Sex, Religion, and the Middle East'. It has some profound insight into what… Read more »
For anyone that has to deal with members of the sect who claim they have freedom to speak openly about their opinions, but choose not to for the sake of unity, you can remind them of Merie's quotes (in the sidebar of the blog, but here for easy reference). "We begin this letter by saying that every Christian has a right and a responsibility to express as well as to teach those things which they honestly believe to be scriptural without being called a false teacher, or one who perverts the word of God." (Moyer Letter, 1967) Let's break that… Read more »
I will have to send this to him. Like I said he's very young & naive. When I ask him anything about the cult he's reply to me very arrogantly :I believe what's in black, white & red". I wholeheartedly believe he joined under pressure. You know when you get to a certain age they start to bager you. I can remember it started for me when I became a senior in high school the "when are you getting baptized?" or "have you thought about your baptism?" I blatantly said thanks but no thanks it just wasn't for me..he caved… Read more »
I'd like to create some business cards, flyers, and other printed material to help each of us reach family and friends still in the sect. I've tried leaving a note on a car door once or twice, and maybe that planted a seed, maybe it didn't. But I'd like feedback on what you all think would be helpful in reaching your family members.
I tend to think personal notes and relational kinds of communication are the most effective. But Stanton is really good at shutting down challenges coming from family members.
Yes they certainly are..I'm the 'black sheep" so they warn to not spend a lot of time with me.
I think truth can prevail, but we'd be wise to figure out the best ways to communicate. Anyone who has creative ideas, whether traditional ideas or out of the box, feel free to private message me.
Kevin just a couple quick thoughts on your idea to create flyers or some sort of communication. Right off the bat, if it's ANYTHING about the cult, it's gonna get shut down. HOW? Well they will mark and avoid. Simple as that. We have seen what they do when someone sends out something in writing, like they did to Tracy G. They were all told they could not read it and should throw it away (though I would bet at least half of them read it.
I think it is a very good idea. I would hand some out.
Speaking of radical Jesus followers, it was a dominant church that was heavily involved in some of the greatest events in American history. From the Revolutionary War, to the Civil War, to the Civil Rights movement, the American Christian church prominently played a part in all. Remember the Old North Church from Paul Revere's ride, in the Revolutionary War? The placing of lanterns would tell if the British were coming by land or by sea. This led to the Battle of Lexington, the first shots fired in the Revolutionary War. https://oldnorth.com/historic-site/the-events-of-april-18-1775/ Remember Beecher's Bible's from Bloody Kansas, before the Civil… Read more »
To see how absurd this idea is, simply examine what Alexander Campbell, the founder of the Church of Christ in 1809, had to say about the death penalty. His views there certainly suggest he thought politics, war, and self defense were acceptable, using….wait for it…necessary inference. http://victimsfamiliesforthedeathpenalty.blogspot.com/2014/03/is-capital-punishment-sanctioned-by.html The second reason is the church refuses to learn their Bible and history, and to stand out in public and say their opinion. Many Christian husbands will be sleeping on the couch if they said in public what a few of us firebrand conservatives say, and that's very unfortunate, because women's feelings are… Read more »
Since the media and schools have been brainwashing and indoctrinating millions, it's necessary to look at events from a Christian perspective, and that's why I created my website, (Messanonews.com) to enable those who have been blind all their lives, to see things through the eyes of the Bible and history for the first time. I know from personal experience, as I was snowed by the media in 2008, and, by watching television, going on youtube, listening to Hollyweird, reading the local newspapers, listening to NPR, and the local radio, I was in an echo chamber of groupthink, where everyone believed… Read more »
Monte – I'll just say that you threw a lot of politics in here—much of which I totally agree with, BTW. But that's an easy way to cut down on word count. I know there's not a topic in existence you're not passionate about—I have that problem as well! 🙂 I truly do, just ask my wife and kids! Lol But I have to choose the right topics for the right audience and slow dow to be a good conversation partner. Otherwise, it turns into a sermon and we have people falling out of windows. We don't want that! Also,… Read more »
What's wrong with sermons and people falling out of windows, Kevin? Eutychus led to a revival of faith:). God bless conservative women, which I'm pretty sure your wife is one, but I hope they can take one for the team and give up the right to vote, because 70% of single women vote Democrat and the majority of married women do too. It's a fact, when you look at the statistics for women's comprehension of history, it's vastly inferior to men's, and without that reference point to make voting decisions on, their analysis is badly flawed. This, in turn, is… Read more »
I hope and pray all those that have left this cult vote. This is your country. Our freedom depends on it! Quit keeping your head in the sand and vote.
That makes two of us, Concerned Outsider, but most were trained to never learn history, and have no idea what principles to vote on. When I first considered voting, in 2007-2008, I was suckered by Google, television, newspapers, Hollyweird, YouTube, and others who were similarly indoctrinated into supporting that fraud Obama, though I didn't vote for him. I was a quick learner though, and learned how mistaken that was. I speedily repented of my Obamadolatry.
Monte- the only thing you are proving to me by all your negative posts about women, and your carrying on about your political views, and your historical information, is that you are a product of Stanton’s abusive upbringing and influence. Like so many of us that spent years in Stanton- we were damaged, often not aware of the peculiarities it creates in us. It would do you good to listen to Kevin (since the words of women mean less than nothing to you) and let this blog be focused on the intended topic. I pray for you Monte. I hope… Read more »
Yes! Thank you Donna & thank you Kevin!! I'm not sure how many times Kevin has to repeat his request. I couldn't imagine after the damage we all endure to come on here & belittle or degrade anyone much less & gender. Thank you Kevin for pointing out how offensive that can be. Let us all pray for each other.
Donna, you can think what you wish, however mistaken you are. There are millions who agree with me who never heard of Stanton. I can't tell you how many times I have to hear people disagree with me and peg my beliefs on Stanton. The vast majority of these haven't read 10 history books in their entire lives and don't realize that there are some good things that Stanton teaches that it wouldn't be wise to let go. I said nothing negative about women at all. Simply said that America functioned a lot better when women were at home, taking… Read more »
Monte – You said "It's sad there are many on here, who insist on imitating Stanton, and trying to silence opinions they don't like." I wish you could see how deeply Stanton's "know it all," "my way or the highway" approach (which is the very intellectual tyranny I speak out against on this blog) is embedded into your own thinking and efforts to convince people of your views. Please, friend, have some humility, not to mention respect for the mission I've taken on here. I don't answer your every point because (a) I don't have time…if I did that, I… Read more »
Kevin pretty sure you took the words out of the majority of your viewers. You've repeated yourself many times..it's like beating a dead horse! Montesqueiu seems very damaged & is choosing to hang on to Stanton for only reasons he knows but the general the consensus seems to be the rest want to move forward & away from Stanton & their teachings..which is the purpose of your blog, correct?
Yes, the left loves to paint conservatives with their identity politics, Kevin, however, why? Because they use code words to get around the truths that terrify them. It's not humble to be browbeaten by those who really could care less about what is right, and care more about who is right. Moses was the meekest man on earth, but I don't see him backing down to emotional appeals that he be 'humble and meek' from people who showed clear evidence that their ideals and God's are two totally different things. We ideologically differ on a few items, and that's fine.… Read more »
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 11:38 AM
Lefou, is that you?
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 11:38 AM
Since when do you think the majority constitutes the truth on anything?
Your entire argument was a fact free ad hominem logical fallacy.
The wise reader will ignore everything you have to say. The foolish will be deceived by you.
Stanton and you have a hard time understanding that if someone has an idea you don't like, you don't get to intimidate them into silence.
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 11:38 AM Reading comprehension does not seem to be a strength of yours, as there are few others on here who have criticized Stanton as much as I have. It seemed the purpose of the blog was to note the issues Stanton had, and to advocate for them to correct them and reform. Wasn't that the purpose of the Gospel? Why would our approach to Stanton be any different? How does your approach to me differ from the wrong treatment Stanton instituted towards everyone on here? It seems to differ not at all. Stanton: You don't… Read more »
You want objective fact? You are a "know it all" who is more interested in speaking than hearing. I say that with love in my heart, bro, I really do.
One thing you'll learn as you get older and deeper in your faith (please Lord…) is that the percentage of objectively accurate doctrines we hold (or we think we hold) is not how we are measured by God, nor is it how we are to measure our brother. That is legalism through and through. That is Stanton's legalistic thinking.
Amen Kevin!
Monte – I fixed it for you… STANTON: "You don't agree with us, the Main Teachers agree you're a problem, we must silence you and punish you until you see it our way." WHAT YOU SAY I'M SAYING: "Kevin doesn't agree with me and is stifling my freedom of speech by kicking me off the blog." WHAT I'M ACTUALLY SAYING: "No one's censoring you or kicking you off. I sometimes agree with kernels of truth you have to say, but you insist on coming off as an arrogant, argumentative person, which makes any reasonable points you may have to say… Read more »
That is your subjective opinion. Calling someone a ‘know it all’ is a cliche. I listen critically, evaluating what I hear via the Bible, and history, and do not apologize for doing so, nor should I be expected to. What is so hard about free speech and the First Amendment? There were just people on here lying, using vulgarity, and waging personal attacks, and these same types who are hot and bothered by me, silently sat and said nothing. I note you do not ‘prove all things, and hold fast to that which is true’. How about you don’t love… Read more »
Please…and comparing oneself to the righteous in the bible is rather grand!
Also,being obnoxious has it's reward.
That being said, "Concerned" seems to traffic in ad hominem attacks on Monte.
First two sentences are an ad hominem logical fallacy, and your last one is a straw man, as Concerned hasn’t launched any ad hominem attacks on me. Shouldn’t you be squawking to Kevin about ‘Make the bad, mean man go away’?
Montesquieu what you are not comprehending or listening to anyone that tells you is this blog isn't intended to be for debating, politics, the founders of America, voting, your issue with women, whether you think someone is a "straw man" or fallacy etc. We have seen Kevin request more than a handful of times openly for all to see: "Please tone it down, show some love and respect for the purpose of the blog, and be more concise.". Your purpose of this blog & Kevin's seem to be quite different as everyone can see.
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 1:12 PM Listen, I know you were probably in Stanton, and probably come from a Democrat state, two environments where you are taught to unquestioningly listen to what experts or the majority tell you to do. You don't speak for everyone, no one appointed you blog spokesman, you certainly don't speak for me, and if you don't like what I have to say and can't factually disprove it, no one is forcing you to read and respond to it. You have yourself to blame for being vexed by it. What free speech means, and it was… Read more »
"You can be sure Stanton is rejoicing at the constant infighting on here."
Irony much? Lol
Seriously…and all the "evil surmising". Bless!
Kevin's words under Motivation for HIS blog:
'The purpose is simply to shine some light on the historical facts of the beginnings of this church, which I believe is responsible for a lot of needless suffering, broken families, and anger with God. Laying out factual history and presenting reasoned scriptural commentary is not an attack. I'm not making assertions, or lying. These are facts, communicated as accurately as I understand them, and are my feeble attempt to speak the truth in love.'
Pretty clear to me the purpose of his blog. He's stated it there & commented many many times.
Never argue with a fool..onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
'The purpose is simply to shine some light on the historical facts of the beginnings of this church, which I believe is responsible for a lot of needless suffering, broken families, and anger with God. Laying out factual history and presenting reasoned scriptural commentary is not an attack. I'm not making assertions, or lying. These are facts, communicated as accurately as I understand them, and are my feeble attempt to speak the truth in love.' Well, to be technical, the beginnings of the true Church of Christ happened 2,000 years ago, and there has been a lot that has happened… Read more »
Dear Mark Twain,
You died an atheist and pretty miserable, and didn't learn much,
'But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.'
Jesus
Thank you Mark Twain..wisest words I've seen yet..just keep scrolling..it's that simple!
M – you know good and well this blog was started to point out the history of the Merie Weiss version of the Church of Christ and the timeline of her influence on the SCOC, not to discuss the history of Christianity. You are disrespectful to Kevin and the other readers of this blog who are here for the purpose which you fail to acknowledge. I don’t understand why you insist on hijacking this blog,
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 3:58 PM How can you discuss the Merie Weiss church and not discuss Christianity and what the church should be at the same time? Simply pointing out mistakes does nothing if you don't understand the solution, and if one doesn't understand the past, the chances of finding a solution are radically decreased. And why are you and many other instigators on here constantly trying to stir up strife between me and Kevin by tattling to him about me, and trying to get us to fight? I find it amusing that you find all my opinions nearly… Read more »
We did..we LEFT & made our own life s better place!!
These appear to be the ramblings of a madman. Monte appears to hate women and SCOC for his lot in life, and is using Pauline teachings to self medicate some deaper issue. It is clear from his plethora of posts he is a lost ball in high weeds…rolling from one argument to the next,and his all out blog hijacking ,long and rambling post. Monte has even attached folks who agreed with some of his moanings. He will continue to post as long as he has an internet connection and computer.The degree of his self importance cannot be overstated. Let state… Read more »
LOL nailed it….waiting for it in 3…2…1….
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 1:54 PM Ad hominem, logical fallacy. LOL. And you lie. For those who object to what I write, where are they to call out your obvious lies? I'm pretty happy with where I am, because my choices, despite the adversity I faced elsewhere, got me here. If one doesn't like their output, they only need change their input. No one knows who you are, like Stanton, you call people you disagree with 'crazy'. You lack judgement and understanding, but then, Stanton lacks the same thing. What in the world is 'Pauline teachings' supposed to mean? The… Read more »
In case anyone needs a good laugh today..aside from this blog this shows the type of person Mr. Montesqueiu is. You're welcome!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN9dzY-HZRc
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 2:11 PM Yes, I know this is a foreign concept to you, and many others on here, but getting up in public and speaking on topics of local, moral, and national interest is what Christians do. BTW, the homosexuals have not been back since, and we are going on a year. They used to terrorize the City Council for the five years prior, so I'm pretty happy I did that. Still waiting for anyone to show me why homosexuality is not illegal still, as SCOTUS (doubtful you can even name the 9 SCOTUS justices, but you… Read more »
Evil surmising again lol
I don't believe you, I think you are being deceitful.
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 2:27 PM
City council meeting videos are public. You saw mine, where is a video of you at one?
If you can't post one, it's likely you didn't give one.
If you know the 9 SCOTUS justices, then list them, without going to Google. I'll wait, but I'm not crossing my fingers. People like you love to talk, but when questioned are often MIA.
LOL…and he has the nerve to point out grammatical and spelling errors. This guys public speaking chops leaves much to be desired. I agree with his message but the messenger is doing more damage than good. His self importance is quite unreal. Thought it was hard to deal with on this blog….this guy is even worse in living color. I'm done commenting on this character.
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 2:34 PM Ah, the critic. You get up in front of a homosexual crowd and call them out in a Democrat city. When you do, please send me a video so I can learn how it's done. It's easy to criticize the doer when you are a critic in the shadows. I was plenty nervous, but I don't regret saying it and doing it at all. Further, I have to say, belting out 'No you stand down' to the Mayor, unprompted, and totally unprepared for, was a moment that left me feeling no regrets at all… Read more »
Wooooowwwww!!! So I had to go to your favorite site & saw this comment in an article: "In February, Messano got into a verbal spat with Sampayan regarding whether the mayor or anyone in attendance had read biographies about the nation’s Founding Fathers."
Sound familiar? Man you need a hobby..go drink a beer or something!
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 2:44 PM Hahaha, after having 10,000 conversations with liberals on fakebook, I started realizing what the problem with them was. They had no clue about history, and so nothing to compare the lies too. Seems like a problem you can relate too. What is so strange about being expected to read biographies of the Founders? You've blown at least 2 years of your life in front of the television if you are 20, on average, so please don't tell me you haven't read those biographies and didn't have the time. Never used alcohol, and have no… Read more »
*to
*to
For the Grammar Nazis. Want to keep them happy. Besides, can't be a hypocrite about others spelling, and not correct my own.
It is unreal how a person with poor speaking skills can excuse their shortcomings but the same mouth condemns people with less than perfect writing skills.
If you took this sample as representative of my public speaking skills, you aren't doing me justice. There is no pressure here. When you get up and publicly speak with 30 homosexuals in the audience who have been terrorizing the city for the past five years, then get back to me. LOL, I completely admit this wasn't my finest speaking performance. Didn't really care, as I knew what needed to be said. I had written out a brief overview in the minutes preceding, but when passion got involved, I went way off script. The part about 'our city is infected… Read more »
Did I belittle what you said because of your less than great delivery? Did i say I won’t take you seriously because of your delivery? I only said you were less than perfect because you made excuses for your delivery. The point I am making is to stop criticizing the content of a comment and belittling the writer just because the grammar and spelling are less than perfect.
A good message can be imperfectly delivered, and a bad message can be as well. I remarked on the latter, you compared it to the former.
Every circus has a clown…we have, Monte.
So, Kevin, this nonsense is acceptable? Where are the people tattling to you about me when we have people lobbing ad hominem attacks from the shadows? I never engaged in this behavior, and would think this site is above this. This isn't an arbitrary disagreement as nearly all those with me are, it's simply asking those who disagree to state their ideas. But we see, ad hominem and unsubstantiated attacks on me are acceptable, but my responding is not. Have we really learned much from Stanton when this nonsense is tolerated? This commenter is simply an immature version of KS,… Read more »
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 3:52 PM How respectable can this site hope to be when random, anonymous commenters are allowed who can't comment with any substance, have no real ideas of their own, but simply, like the liberal mindless drones, come on and name-call? Is that tolerated? How is what this commenter and the hordes of others like them doing, any different from what Ernst Rohm and the brown shirts did in Nazi Germany? Didn't they intimidate, name call, and attempt to bully those they disagreed with into silence? They largely succeeded too, didn't they? Why is it that any… Read more »
I urge everyone to lookup the word GADFLY. After becoming familiar with the term, you will know how to deal with this character. The term perfectly captures Monte's behavior.
There was a man who called himself a gadfly in the 4th century B.C. You may have heard of him. Funny, you are using a word that was in the very article you just looked up. I thanked the writer for using it to describe me. Men of Athens, do not interrupt, but hear me; there was an understanding between us that you should hear me to the end: I have something more to say, at which you may be inclined to cry out; but I believe that to hear me will be good for you, and therefore I beg… Read more »
Kevin, judging by the comments many of the commenters are making on here, It appears the purpose of the blog needs to be revisited. They are apparently reading it as 'Attack every comment of Montesqueiu, call him crazy, disagree with him constantly, tell Kevin whenever he comments, secretly, don't use your real name when attacking him, attack him in bands. Try to instigate a fight between Kevin and him. When Kevin disagrees with him publicly, encourage and applaud Kevin, and don't applaud Monte. Don't address what he says, only lob ad-hominems at him, don't address Stanton, Montesquieu is the real… Read more »
Says the one who uses the name of Montesqueiu instead of your real name lol you do exactly what you rant about. There's a difference between you & Kevin is just as Kevin states. Maturity. You lack discipline & respect. You can not agree to disagree. Kevin does not come on here to debate or argue with his viewers.
Yes, I'm kind of done with the conversation until "Montesqieu" grows up a bit. More important things to deal with, like making this site better.
God bless.
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 4:59 PM As stated before, everyone on this site who knows much of Stanton knows who I am. Who knows who you are? Can you do criticize me without an ad-hominem attack? It doesn't seem likely, given your recent history. As for your subjective view of maturity, and your constant instigating, it gets old. You sound like a very angry Termagant. Could be wrong, but your style is quite like one. What is a termagant, you ask? A quarrelsome, scolding woman; a shrew. That about sums up your style. God help us if you are a… Read more »
Ad hominem fallacy 😀
Funny how he completely ignore Kevin's comment to grow up lol like subjective hearing..sees what he wants too.
Not an ad hominem, Kevin, the style is exactly like that of a quarrelsome, scolding woman. Besides, she said nothing that was an actual argument, her entire argument was an ad hominem. Her argument is I lack discipline and respect. Yet, can give no evidence except her subjective assessment of my comments. Thinks that just saying something makes it so. Meanwhile, anyone who understands English can tell she is definitely a termagant. There are a few others on here, but most avoid listing their names, because they prefer to avoid scrutiny. They don't even have to use their real names,… Read more »
Monte, do you think there is only one person writing as anonymous? You’re mistaken. You have no idea who you’re addressing so guessing their gender, political views, sexual sins, television watching staus, etc are a huge waste of space and make you sound ridiculous.
Monte- before you start whining about how persecuted you are, let me call the Waaaaambulence.
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 5:38 PM Sure could have fooled me. The attackers usually ignore all facts, totally ignore the historical aspects addressed, typically use one or two sentences, state their subjective opinion, appoint themselves blog spokespeople, and proceed to badger and harass me for ideas they disagree with. I've got plenty of experience with this, so I can handle it, just would be nice to know motives. Plato talked about this over 2,000 years ago, 'No man is hated more than he who tells the truth'. So, despite the fact that you think massive opposition has any bearing on… Read more »
Ya'll are brutal to this poor fella!!
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 5:50 PM
Do you English much?
Can you show a single credible argument aimed at me?
Let me help you, you can't.
Anyone who takes these attacks seriously has an opinion that is seriously suspect.
AnonymousMarch 27, 2019 at 5:50 PM
They sure are, it's because they are mad they have no arguments.
I think they were trying to defend you…
He mouths off to the one who defends him LOL I love this soapbox!
Kevin, do you have any idea who these anonymous, seeming teenagers are who are attacking Montesquieu?
Are we back in high school?
I looked up the term Monte–I mean Gadfly. A gadfly will gadfly folks.
Kevin, are these juvenile comments reflective of the serious pursuit of truth your website purports to support?
It looks like random thugs are allowed to disrupt this website.
If they don't like the tone of comments, they hijack the site and name-call.
Disgraceful
Anon 6:28 – Haha of course not. This is the nature of the platform we're on right now and I don't have time right now to babysit. Others are welcome to, or simply don't respond.
But I can tell you the new site should be light years better for commenting and rational conversation.
Great, glad to hear.
Problem with the internet is people feel emboldened to say things they’d never say in public.
Also, they are such pests, that no one wants to deal with them, because they throw logic and reason out the window.
Anon 6:05 – No idea who any anon posters are. Seems that way. Lol
Trolls have a way of finding each other. This isn't Reddit, ppl. Ha
I’m hoping to change the topic. Been studying through the book of James where I attend. TC favorite scripture needs to be covered. I know how he teaches. Any thoughts? I’ll share mine
I would love to hear your thoughts Craig! I'm listening….
Oops, James 4:17!!
James 4:17 New International Version (NIV)
17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
This would appear to condemn the very existence of SCOC, would it not? Even a rudimentary exegesis of this scripture highlights that SCOC has sequestered themselves from "The World," and apart from their less-than-anemic "outreach," they are content to go in circles amongst themselves only, and consequently have fallen into the proverbial ditch that awaits the (spiritually)blind leading the blind.
Yes, to know to do good and do it not is a sin. Very relevant topic, thank you for that, Craig. Excellent insight, An Mous 7:09. Stanton gets no insight from any but their leaders, and since their leaders have no direct line to heaven, though if you listen, you'd think some of them have God on speed dial, they are relying on their own human guidance. 'Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding' reads Proverbs 3:5, and Stanton has been relying on Merie's obviously flawed understanding and the flawed understanding of… Read more »
Montesquieu March 28, 2019 at 10:20 AM: No hyperbole intended, but that is the best sermon I've heard all year, because it so precisely encapsulates Stanton's paradox, their hypocrisy, their willful and blinding pride, their dilemma, their challenge, and ultimately, their own self-made Catch-22 and imprisonment in error, and all flowing from the top down, from KS, GP, and TC, and initially from their founder, Merie, all those years ago. A useful analogy might be the Israelites, who were liberated from enslavement and their Egyptian captors, but who ended up wandering in the desert for 40 years because of their… Read more »
I agree, Anon@4:11. Monte, delivered a masterful and succinct post highlighting the main reason Stanton continues to miss the point of what true religion means.
Thank you kindly, AnonymousMarch 28, 2019 at 4:11 PM, I am far more accustomed to criticism then praise, and have learned that only the latter from God can be relied upon always, but your kind words are appreciated. Yes, the Israelites are great example. Like them, Stanton is in the wilderness of Sin (That was the physical place they were in, and Stanton is in the wilderness of the Sin of Pride). It would be wonderful if Stanton would just submit to God, and repent, but that hardly appears to be likely in the near future. Praying for them is… Read more »
TC, like many others, is far from this. In my study this evening, I run across this passage, again. 1 Corinthians 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. Not only does TC like to do talks on unity, they are far from it. They are divided in one way of how they treat each other. I have seen for years older and/or more popular members getting more attention than others and in a lot of cases the ignored needs attention. Some examples are that even… Read more »
You're right, Lynn. Stanton has a big issue with favoritism and preferring and the leaders do little to nothing to discourage it. They enjoy the adulation, but don't realize power is to empower others, not yourself at the expense of others. 'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely'Lord Acton Was thinking this morning on all the people Stanton's tyranny has driven away. Pretty sure God is not happy about this. For instance, when I was unscripturally withdrawn from there were at least 9 of my siblings either coming or open to coming. Since then, despite my… Read more »
Montesqueiu, I agree. My wife was on the fence, but with all that she saw she almost despised them. When I brought that to CS, preacher from the south, he said that is untrue and it was up to me to be the example to her, so, basically I'm the one keeping her away. It is taught in Tacoma that those who are out for infirmities need to be the ones to reach out to the other members and not expect the congregation to reach out to you. CS's son said in a sermon that when his wife was out… Read more »
It really helped me when I was taught outside of Stanton that James was written to Jewish converts of Christianity. They seemed to be holding on to vestiges of Judaism yet, believed in Christ.
From what I understand they were killing and warring amongst brethren and, James, appears to be appealing to old law arguments to make his points. Furthermore, the author builds on his old law teachings using Christian centered obedience.
James 4:17 I see in context James is letting the Christians know the good to do and the sin not to do when you read above. It’s certainly not as TC and others would teach in the cult such as we have a midweek class you can’t miss it next to nothing. For myself I’d heed my conscience and the good it is telling me to do not a counselor, preacher or teacher from a cult such as Merie’s cult. I would not miss a child being born, a funeral of a loved one or a friend. Miss an opportunity… Read more »
Good insights, Craig. It figures that Stanton would use that verse for such a low purpose as forcing obedience to a set of rules. In reality, that one statement, that if we know to do good and don't, we're sinning, clarifies amazingly deep matters of the heart. In fact, those matters, as you've alluded to, can turn the table on the external rule-following. For instance, if your Main Teacher forbids you from attending your daughter's graduation, and you know that attending would mean a lot to her as her dad and help her enter the next phase of her life… Read more »
Kevin, thank you for the information.
Anon 5:47 I did share my thoughts yesterday. Though I gave more consideration to this scripture today. This is a huge scripture that the cult leaders use to control their members to adhere to their rules they put in place. From the attire they teach to wear, to activities they say is okay to do, to the cult schedule they put in place. Unless it’s clear in scripture, it’s an opinion. Or the conscience of that one who is teaching. Or an unbiblical rule they love to make. Control, control, control.
Craig- another scripture I would like to have discussed here is Hebrews 10:25 NIV nNot giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing,but encouraging one another,-and all the more as you see the Day approaching. As we know the KJV reads: not forsaking the assembling …. Stanton uses this verse to prove this is Sunday and to prove we are not to ‘forsake’ the day. What I’m going to say will rock some boats… but is that REALLY the meaning here? Is it a SIN if we don’t attend ‘worship’ for WHATEVER reason. Or is this… Read more »
The book of Hebrews is obviously written to Jewish Christians in the first century. More importantly, it was written prior to 72 A.D., when the Romans would persecute Jews and Christians, and destroy Jerusalem. I believe this is the "day approaching" that the writer of Hebrews is talking about, not a future spiritual judgment day. I would paraphrase it like this: And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, and make sure you don't give up meeting together as believers in your local towns, as some are in the habit of doing.… Read more »
Kevin- so the Day is not referring to the day of judgement??? But rather a day when Jerusalem would be destroyed? Interesting thought. Never heard that before, probably because if anyone had raised their hand to undo the current Stanton exegesis, they wouldn’t be called on in class again!
Yes, that's my opinion, and the opinion of a lot of people. In fact, many references in the NT to the coming "judgment day," if you look carefully, might be better interpreted as the coming "judgment" God was going to rain down upon Jerusalem at the hand of the Romans in response to their rejection of the Messiah. It makes a fascinating re-read of the NT to go back and read it with that in mind.
If God saw fit to rest on the 7th day of Creation, it seems pretty sensible, Donna, to think Christians would think the same way. While some of the reasons why missing worship are legitimate, meeting together for Sunday to worship God worked just fine for America, long before Alexander Campbell, Merie Weis, or Stanton came along. Have you experienced or are you familiar with Blue Laws, where no businesses were open on Sunday? We had a far greater moral nation now. But, for the love of money,the worship of God was forsaken, and look at the devastation that has… Read more »
Monte, I really doubt your 5% estimate is anywhere near correct. I was raised assembly of God and all those topics were taught. Not as excessively as Stanton, but I think that is a good thing because Stanton and its followers do it so much my opinion is that the excessiveness can actually lead to those things, particularly in children /teens. When instead we spend more time on things like the beatitudes, we get a better result ("think on these things"). Garbage in/garbage out is the same when the message is not tempered. Temperance in so many areas is so… Read more »
Most of your comment I agree with you, M Long, but, if you look at the state of America, that is a direct reflection of the church and it's leadership. Our sexual debauchery is directly due to a lack of leadership and discipline in the church. Listen to the radio and television preachers. They rarely talk about sexual sin, and even if they did, it would do little good, as the church needs relationships, which both Stanton and mega-churches have a hard time forming. You are right, Stanton has done it excessively, and they neglect compassion, mercy, and forgiveness. In… Read more »
Also, there is a huge advantage to going someplace continuously, and not being a church hummingbird. The relationships that were formed in my first 18 years of attending church in Stanton were very healthy ones. Sadly, while we didn't know how to have deep and lasting relationships, as most of what we saw was artificial, we children did the best we could. Real relationships mean seeing the best and worst of a person, and loving them still. When humans don't form close godly relationships with others, they tragically often fall into perverse sins. Learned this from a friend who was… Read more »
Monte, sorry you are attending places that are asking for your money. Where we go there is a collection but there's no pressure. I do wonder if part of the issue of seeing so many liberal churches is that you're in California? Here in TX we seem to have more options and are still able to see sin being taught without the crazy persecution that might be more present in other states. Not always or everywhere, but there are large pockets of religious conservatives.It's true about the preachers living and teaching the gospel. It is just as true to have… Read more »
I know that after leaving Stanton, I picked apart every church I visited using my list of hot button topics. I came to view these as "baggage."
Later, when doing home church with several close families, we would joke about leaving our baggage at the door. Meeting with a few close friends in our homes, and learning to "be" the church instead of "going" to church was very helpful in recognizing how much baggage we'd been carrying around that the scriptures never asked us to carry. It was kind of like detox from men's teachings. 🙂
Kevin, are you familiar with a brother of old Carl Ketcherside?
Searcher – Yes, his writings (after reforming his views from his sectarian days) were instrumental in helping me reexamine my legalistic view of fellowship and the scriptures. I have taken the time to reproduce his uncopyrighted books into PDF download form for easy reading.
http://www.harpertribe.com/files/ketcherside/
Searcher – one of my favorites is According to the Pattern.
He happens to have been from the small sect that my dad took me to when he was withdrawn from when I was 6 1/2. I never met him, and only heard negatives about him until, out of curiosity, I decided to look his writings up as a young adult.
Mind. Blown.
I had already started down the road he had traveled, and his work was so encouraging to me and to my wife. We were able to (thankfully) disengage with the sectarian mindset without dividing from our church family who didn't yet "get it."
One of the reasons this blog is here today is that Carl Ketcherside's words reproved me and shook me to the core. It's his writings that spurred me to do what I now call the clean Bible challenge. And it's not because I hang on his every word—I haven't read his works in years. He just pushed me back to Jesus, without the doctrines of men obscuring the message of the gospel.
Searcher, may I ask why you brought up Ketcherside?
Kevin, perhaps I shall answer with a question for you to define for me. What is legalistic teaching? I am only interested in Kevin's answer.
searcher – I've been trying to figure out the best way to explain that to people like me from legalistic backgrounds ever since I learned not to be a legalist. The best short answer would be that legalistic teaching is teaching that expects performance according to an externally measurable set of rules in order to obtain God's favor. Grace, by contrast, is "unmerited" or unearned favor. I've written more extensively on this subject here, but I confess that there would be no end of words if I were to try to accurately describe what it's like to live within an… Read more »
You met with families to worship with and left your baggage outside and just loved one another. I have been trying to figure out what items were in the baggage?.
searcher – Teachings of men. All of them. I've been writing about them on this blog since the beginning, but a good place to start to get an idea are the links in the sidebar under the heading "The Book of Rules."
With Hebrews 10:25 consider the definition of FORSAKE.
Forsake: to reject, abandone altogether, renounce, to turn your back on.
Could this be a warning not to commit apostasy????
I personally think the writer is trying to pump up his people to stand the fiery trial that was coming. Basically, he's saying don't abandon meeting altogether, because that's how you will be able to encourage one another "as you see the day approaching." He's not saying don't miss a church service. That would have been ludicrously incongruent with his message, I think.
Wow! Thanks for that insight Kevin!
Donna, our preacher explained the word Forsake also to us. It means to TURN YOUR BACK ON. Christians were afraid of persecution at that time and were avoiding meeting altogether out of fear. If you FORSAKE something, it means something much more permanent than missing a day of it. Also seeing the other versions helps us to look at that scripture more clearly. Once again, it's just another example of Stanton trying to control people. And they need to. If the few people they have start missing the occasional worship, they could have very low attendance. Instead of working in… Read more »
M Long – Spot on.
Wow! Did you hear my brain exploding?? Love it! Thank you all for your insight, it now makes perfect sense!
It makes a real difference when we understand what is going on at the time that the writer was writing. Taking things in context make a huge difference!! Thanks again
Imagine a cold snowy day, and a little child in tattered clothing. The child is hungry, and is an orphan. Separated from it's parents, it has had a hard life in early 1800 London. If you read Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens you can learn more about this child. Poor Oliver went to a poor house, where they commonly stuck orphans in those days. Once, when they had served their usual rations of gruel, Oliver, starving and desperate for more, asked for MORE! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbdNgbCOq_s You know what happened if you read it, and if you haven't, reading Charles Dickens will… Read more »
The Stanton Inquisition. About 6 years ago or so, more or less, I met with the teachers of my church to review possibly returning. When I sat down, I was queried on what a Christian in the church said I was guilty of before I was even withdrawn from. Now, the court systems of America are pretty bad, but they at least let the accused have their say. In Stanton, they don't even do that. I didn't even wait to hear what the sister, who I had always been rather fond of, had to say about me, I simply exploded… Read more »
Monte, they want you to sit there an take what they are accusing you of. If you do attempt to the set the record straight they will accuse you of "defending yourself" and/or "being standoffish". It was said by TC that if you try to get help for what is going on against you that you are "selfish". Another sister pointed out in a question that if there really is something wrong that others will speak up. A lot of times there is no justice. You have to take what is being dished out and can't say anything in your… Read more »
Yes, Lynn, that is quite true. Very hard to defend yourself. That's further evidence of 'pride'. We are to be 'umble', and to accept all charges against us, and to not dare dream of anything Stanton does that is wrong. For that is 'thoughtcrime'. Honestly, if you have thoughts pondering some of the unscriptural teachings of Stanton, that's worse in their book than lustful thoughts. If you commit fornication, or lie, steal, or whatever, there is hope in Stanton for you, as long as you don't disagree with the teacher. But, if you are Jesus Christ himself, and you disagree… Read more »
Monte- Your recent posts are much more interesting and along the purpose this blog was intended for. Thank you!
Thank you Donna, and you're welcome. In keeping with that, went to a bible study last night, and the church, which had about 15 members in attendance, down from 700 in the 1970's, in a beautiful building, was giving away books. Felt that was a wonderful gift, to remedy the entire evening class being for me on 'legalism'. LOL. Because I told a few members there what I say here. Some real gems. Among them, I picked up one book, along with the entire Little House Series, (all of which they gave me for free, Amazing!!, so blessed!) which contained… Read more »
"Me?" said Jimmy, still blackly virtuous. "Why, warden, I never was in Springfield in my life!" "Take him back, Cronin," smiled the warden, "and fix him up with out-going clothes. Unlock him at seven in the morning, and let him come to the bull-pen. Better think over my advice, Valentine." At a quarter past seven on the next morning Jimmy stood in the warden's outer office. He had on a suit of the villainously fitting, readymade clothes and a pair of the stiff, squeaky shoes that the state furnishes to its discharged compulsory guests. The clerk handed him a railroad… Read more »
"That's Dandy Jim Valentine's autograph, He's resumed business. Look at that combination knob – jerked out as easy as pulling up a radish in wet weather. He's got the only clamps that can do it. And look how clean those tumblers were punched out! Jimmy never has to drill but one hole. Yes, I guess I want Mr. Valentine. He'll do his bit next time without any short-time or clemency foolishness." Ben Price knew Jimmy's habits. He had learned them while working up the Springfield case. Long jumps, quick get-aways, no confederates, and a taste for good society – these… Read more »
The clerk was impressed by the clothes and manner of Jimmy. He, himself, was something of a pattern of fashion to the thinly gilded youth of Elmore, but he now perceived his shortcomings. While trying to figure out Jimmy's manner of tying his four-in-hand he cordially gave information. Yes, there ought to be a good opening in the shoe line. There wasn't an exclusive shoe-store in the place. The dry-goods and general stores handled them. Business in all lines was fairly good. Hoped Mr. Spencer would decide to locate in Elmore. He would find it a pleasant town to live… Read more »
On the Monday night after Jimmy wrote this letter, Ben Price jogged unobtrusively into Elmore in a livery buggy. He lounged about town in his quiet way until he found out what he wanted to know. From the drug-store across the street from Spencer's shoe-store he got a good look at Ralph D. Spencer. "Going to marry the banker's daughter, are you, Jimmy?" said Ben to himself, softly. "Well, I don't know!" The next morning Jimmy took breakfast at the Adamses. He was going to Little Rock that day to order his wedding-suit and buy something nice for Annabel. That… Read more »
While they were thus engaged Ben Price sauntered in and leaned on his elbow, looking casually inside between the railings. He told the teller that he didn't want anything; he was just waiting for a man he knew. Suddenly there was a scream or two from the women, and a commotion. Unperceived by the elders, May, the nine-year-old girl, in a spirit of play, had shut Agatha in the vault. She had then shot the bolts and turned the knob of the combination as she had seen Mr. Adams do. The old banker sprang to the handle and tugged at… Read more »
Hardly believing that she heard him aright, she unpinned the bud from the bosom of her dress, and placed it in his hand. Jimmy stuffed it into his vest-pocket, threw off his coat and pulled up his shirt-sleeves. With that act Ralph D. Spencer passed away and Jimmy Valentine took his place. "Get away from the door, all of you," he commanded, shortly. He set his suit-case on the table, and opened it out flat. From that time on he seemed to be unconscious of the presence of anyone else. He laid out the shining, queer implements swiftly and orderly,… Read more »
Monte – You'll be forgiven, but next time maybe post a link to long form prose, that way you don't push other conversations off the page and people can choose what to read. 😉
No problem, problem is too many are too lazy to click on a link. Years ago, I regularly posted on Breitbart. Commonly posted on the damaging effects of Islam. It got little attention. Finally, I posted the complete words of John Quincy Adams, our 6th President, on Islam, which was at least 8 paragraphs, in one comment. The response was overwhelming. It got far more reads and likes then simply posting a link. I don't care about likes and reads, but people understanding basic ideas on important issues is rather important. Further, since our schools did a horrible job of… Read more »
Monte- If one is too lazy to click on a link what makes you think such a lazy person would read your lengthy posts? Above, you stated you once posted 8 paragraphs in one post on another blog. Yesterday you posted FIFTY-SEVEN paragraphs in SIX consecutive posts and pushed all other recent comments off of the page.
Anon 11:44AM..Agreed..I haven't been on in a couple of weeks & hopped on today..scroll after scroll is one commenter. I guess if it was something interesting I'd enjoy the read..wouldn't call it being lazy it's just too much & seems to steer away from the topic on the blog etc. Will probably catch hell for commenting & will be another 13 paragraphs for you. Apologizing in advance lol
AnonymousApril 2, 2019 at 11:44 AM AnonymousApril 2, 2019 at 1:15 PM Since the Marxists have been deliberately subverting basic reading and math skills in the public schools, your apathy is understandable. The average person is too dull to appreciate intellectual splendor. A pity. They also get indignant at being put out, and exposed to ideas that the lamestream media, Hollyweird, hellivision, Google, or their similarly indoctrinated friends and family didn't introduce them to first. If you can't appreciate fine literate, that's a personal issue you need to work on. The nerve! 100 years ago we put a dunce cap… Read more »
Monte – your last tirade was utterly uncalled for. I was simply reiterating what Kevin had pointed out; that the number of posts were unnecessary when you could have used a link for those interested in reading the story you referenced. Nowhere in my comment did I say I wouldn't be interested in reading an O'Henry story, I simply stated that, because of your numerous posts, the previous comments from other people disappeared; and Kevin said the same thing. I hope someday you realize how unkind you are when you get into attack/defense mode. Your personal attacks are extremely disturbing… Read more »
You sir are a true hypocrite.Goes straight to name calling & assumptions while having not having a clue who I am or knowing me personally.I just simply do not care to read what you post. It does not interest me the way it intrest you. It doesn't make you any better than anyone on this blog. Not everyone shares the same interest believe it or not. That doesn't result in your constant negative judgments. Not one other commenter on this blog results to name calling, assumptions or bashing. Seems many can agree to disagree and move on to the next… Read more »
AnonymousApril 2, 2019 at 5:09 PM I read the aforementioned Carl Ketcherside, and he mentioned 3 instances of note. First, a church read that the First Century Church broke bread in the 'Upper Room'. So, they made a two story building, and made sure to always take the Lord Supper in the Upper Room. Shhhh, don't tell Stanton about that, or the next May Trip will be on how all churches need to have a second floor. In the second, a devout sister read that the Lord was baptized in the River Jordan. The habit of the church was to… Read more »
Once again your assumption after assumption.
Empty words.
Unless you personally know who is commenting then you are doing nothing but judging.
Agree to disagree & move on.
Praying immensely for you.
Matthew 12:36 says we are known and judged by our words. To those who study human nature, it is simple to reason to what kind of life a person leads based on their words. It is astonishing you claim others do not know you, yet you voice your opinions and seem not to grasp their meaning. Further, you comment anonymously, and are shocked to learn that even without others ever having met you, it is not hard to understand the intentions of the human heart, as it hasn’t changed in thousands of years. The problem is, our schools and media… Read more »
Kevin and M Long. I agree as I never understood how Merie’s cult would use this scripture for missing a worship. This is for people who “fall away” from worshipping God. You don’t abandon God because you miss a worship for a reason that goes against the cults rules and opinions. Nor are you turning your back on God when you know where your heart, soul and mind is to be worshipping the next Sunday. M Long great points as I heard their reasoning missing because of vacation or whatever. What if everyone did that on a certain Sunday. Well… Read more »
Craig – Yes, there are Christian churches in every town, but they're not all "Stanton authorized service centers." Lol
I heard it being used as an example of in another congregation where a brother had broken his leg and was really in pain to where he wasn't going to come to class one evening and what their direction of thought in their understanding of that verse is that you can't miss anything due to any infirmity. A certain member coxed that brother to "push his flesh" so that he isn't missing the class. With their understanding of not missing classes, meetings, or worship is that it is up the one having problems to push past themselves as if it… Read more »
I struggle with my faith. I struggle to know what is real..what I believe..if I even believe..am I the only one?
I too struggle. And in that struggling, I believe the truth will eventually emerge. I have struggled for a while, and as a result, have gained a modicum of humility before God, and have learned to embrace all of our common humanity. "The know it all's"…i.e "SCOC", will never see God because they act as if they know all things as God.
Being brainwashed for so many years & seeing family still so brainwashed…it is a big struggle. I wonder about this "God" they worship. I question myself often & have yet to find the answers. I guess time will prevail..or maybe it won't. I do enjoy the majority of this blog..others not so much..it's taking a step back for me. Glad to see I am not alone with my struggle..
TBH: What you are feeling is completely normal for people affected by Stanton. Even for people who are not, frankly; but especially those from an authoritarian culture like Stanton's. Start slow, understand the fruits of the spirit first. Understand that God is a God of love, grace, compassion, and forgiveness. That's the entire reason Jesus came to earth to live as a human, so it couldn't be said that God didn't feel what we feel. The creator became his creation and gave an example of sacrificial love for us to follow. We are here to follow a person (Jesus), not… Read more »
Kevin yes their God is nothing of the love & grace you speak of. It's constant fear. But at some point in my life I just stopped listening. Maybe I stopped believing. I don't know. Still trying to figure that part out. I know I'm turned off by any organized religion..maybe religion in general..it's almost like you have to find yourself & who you are on your own. Thank you for your kind words!
Personally, I've learned it's only really safe to take my fears and doubts to God. Man has a nasty habit of using these against you if you tell them. Admit your faults, your sins, your doubts, your struggles, and man in power, who loves power alone, and doesn't understand that power is to serve others with, will use these as levers to manipulate those below with. You see this same propensity in the greatest men in the Bible. Do you ever see Moses, Abraham, David, or Jacob running to other men with their fears, doubts, and struggles? I certainly don't.… Read more »
TBH, I too have been pretty turned off by "organized religion," which is why my family spent a couple of years "detoxing" or "decompressing" in a home church with several close families. And I don't think we can really "find ourselves" before finding God. This process is not about religion or church rules, but about recognizing who you are—that you are a child of God, created and loved by Him as a father loves his kids. It can take many years to shed that old mindset that God is all about putting obstacles in our way to overcome, like he's… Read more »
Jeremiah 17:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
AnonymousApril 3, 2019 at 11:41 AM
The Stanton nonmember class is normally on Thursday. You are a day early.
The heart desperately is deceitful above all things, however, using this scripture to say the teacher is always right, and no scriptural truth can come anywhere but from the teacher is flawed.
Anon 11:41 curious to know whats your purpose for posting that scripture?
@ Anonymous April 3, 2019 at 11:41 AM If you are going to quote a scripture, might I suggest that maybe you add the full context of what the scripture is trying to say, or what your point is so people can understand what you are trying to say so there can be meaningful discussion. Also the scripture you quoted asked the question "who can know it?" and the answer is in the VERY NEXT VERSE after it. God searches and knows the hearts of men, and if we live our lives following his commandments we will be accepted of… Read more »
ToBeHonest: I see you deleted some posts, and that's fine. Just know that when you do that, the replies also disappear. I'll respond here in case you check back on this thread. I, too, have an aversion to "organized religion." This is why I "detoxed" or "decompressed" by home churching with several families for a couple of years. That helped free me from the shackles of men's opinions. And my suggestion is that the best way to find ourselves is to find our meaning and place in this world. And IMO, we can only do that by understanding that we're… Read more »
@ Kevin, I still see TBH's recent posts and the replies. I might be wrong and may have missed something since I haven't been following all the comments recently. Maybe you just have to click the "load more" button at the bottom if you're on desktop since there's over 200 comments in this thread already and they don't all load at the same time (which is one of the reasons why I'm glad you're updating from blogger). If not then disregard this.
Kevin If I deleted it was by accident..not even sure I know how to delete it lol.I have visited several other churches around..I guess I haven't connected in a way to make me go back. I long for that connection in a way. I don't feel I need to go to church 7 days a week but I'd like to be able to connect with what is being taught if that makes since…I have struggled for many years trying to find a meaning or my place in this world. My family has made me feel like I am no value… Read more »
TBH, I've had similar thoughts, and this book, written 300 years ago, which I've spoken about often, as I am very enthusiastic about it, has some amazing insight into contentment and our purpose.
https://banneroftruth.org/us/store/christian-living/the-rare-jewel-of-christian-contentment/
There are definitely comments that exist that I can't find, sometimes. Usually when I click on a comment, it takes me directly to it. But sometimes, it just leaves me at the top of the page, no matter which browser, which device, or if I've cleared browser cache.
Which is why I just need to finish migrating everything over. I'll stop commenting and keep working. Hopefully by Friday. 🙂
Thanks for everyone's patience!
Kevin – I have noticed that when I click a comment and it just leaves me at the top of the page it's because I need to load more comments, and often have to load more comments after the first load or the second load.