If I were to ask one question of Stanton members, it would be this: Did Merie ever make herself right from her withdrawal for sowing seeds of discord and causing division?
Here is her letter of withdrawal from 1958. (Mainline churches actually leave a paper trail for their disciplinary actions, unlike Stanton COC, which prefers to keep its business under the cover of secrecy.)
To me, this is the question that strikes at the root of the tree of the Stanton sect. According to Merie’s own teaching, the mainline churches didn’t “lose the candlestick” until sometime in the mid-70’s. This means her withdrawal was put into place by a church that even she recognized. Now remember that by Stanton COC teachings, even unjust withdrawals need to be honored until the church obtains a “new understanding” from the Holy Spirit.
So their own teachings undercut the authenticity of the sect. Spring Valley, much less Stanton or any of the others, should have never been started, and should not then currently exist, by virtue of the fact that Merie was withdrawn from the entire time she was starting and building her little sect.
Remember, a sect is simply a division. Isn’t it obvious then that the basis for her withdrawal was accurate? She actively sought to divide the church, and succeeded in that effort.
Even if the things she was saying were right (which they weren’t), by their own standard, she should have kept quiet until the church came around to the correct view. Furthermore, she would have been guilty of murmuring if she vocalize any dissent. She should have humbled herself during her withdrawal and sought to “make herself right.”
But no. Stanton’s own rules for others don’t apply to themselves. This is the height of Pharisaism, and the kind of unrepentant hypocrisy that has no defense.

Hi Kevin, can you share how you got this document? I was asked…what if it was photoshopped? I did answer that no one appeared to dispute it. But also I could not find a listing for the East San Diego CoC. So just curious.
Unfortunately, I can't share that info at this time, because it was shared in confidence. There was great risk to a relationship in sharing it at all, and only way I got an agreement to share it publicly was for the source to be confidential.
I can tell you that it was scanned directly from original documents that had been in an old file cabinet for a very long time by a believer who has no interest in lying or the technological prowess to do it. Basically, you're going to have to trust me and my source on this—but it is 100% accurate.
I understand, thanks for answering.
At your own admission most of those contributing to this blog have at one point been withdrawn from, rebuked, reproved etc. and didn't agree with the judgment past down on you. Your minds, again from your writings in this blog, were still to soldier on and stay true to what you believe. Why couldn't Merie Weiss have the same courtesy from all of you? She went from door to door and (some how) was instrumental in building many churches of Christ. I can't say I have experienced anything near this kind of success. Merie was withdrawn from more than once so she had to have made herself 'right' from the one you have published. Her last withdraw with in 1964, because she had no place else that would fellowship her she began to knock on doors and convert souls to the GOSPEL. Whether or not you accept her judgments is another matter indeed, but you can't take away from this lady warrior her zeal in teaching and converting the lost. Use equity in your judgment and stop judging by the sight of your eyes or hearing of the ears but judge righteous judgment.
Fact check: People who were first-hand witnesses of the chaos she wreaked in those early years know of only the one withdrawal, which she never came back from. I'm sorry to mess up your sanitized narrative of what happenee, but the facts show she was withdrawn from for sowing discord and causing division…which was true, because that is what actually happened…she created a faction out of the Spring Valley congregation.
Freda Harper would have the right history, this I know. If the history is coming from Freda then I will have nothing more to say on the subject. But from Merie's own narrative she was withdrawn from at least three times. Three different churches of Christ.
Anon 11:25: there are many, many people over time who have started churches with ZEAL. Jim Jones comes to mind. L Ron Hubbard also. Joseph Smith. Does that mean anyone with ZEAL who starts churches is right? No. If u dig deeper, while we don't like the results of Merie's "zeal", many of us are upset that our consciences have been overridden by this woman's judgement (doctrine) and not necessarily Christ's. One problem here is that you think only this woman taught the "truth " in the WHOLE ENTIRE WORLD and so no one can go against her church or her teachings (which you call "judgments").
Many of us have had our bonds torn with those we sacrificed for and LOVE by Merie's church . That's why we're here. We're here to share, to help prevent the damage to other families, to vent, to cry, to heal. Why are you here?
I truly hope you are willing to look past some of the hurtful comments and sometimes angry words and see that many of us here are hurting AS A RESULT of joining Merie's church.
Reproved? Rebuked? Withdrawn from? Can u think of even ONE person who has never been through a rebuke or public reproof?
In order to judge, as a judge does in court, you have to be willing to hear both sides. We understand that members there are not to get on this site. How can you all judge something you don't investigate for yourselves?
I judge based upon the fruit it has born. I look at the children who were raised up in the SCOC and ask how are they doing today? Many of the adult children will have nothing to do with the abusive people they were raised by and with. If the tree was good why is the fruit withering? Perhaps what is more to the point what is the SCOC like today and not so much about Merie. Institutions change with a change in leaders, what is the current state of the flock? are they moral and loving people or as was seen at the recent funeral aggressive, overbearing and intimidating? I don't think the SCOC has changed one bit, it is still overbearing with leaders ignorant of the Bible and quoting "Merie said" instead of proving out by scripture why Christians do what they do. Withdraw is not be used to help a person see their sin but rather withdrawal has been from people who disagree with the local leaders. Kill the messenger and you won't have to hear the message has been the modus operandi since time immortal.
Kevin, waitin for YOUR answer.
Anon 10:09, Im working on a broken washer, sorry I'm not answering fast enough for you, Paula. Sorry, just an educated guess. 😉
My information comes from a contemporaneous source familiar with Merie's divisive behavior going as far back as her teens and 20s. I have always said that if my information is faulty or incomplete, please correct me. I would be quite open to learning more information about additional withdrawals besides the one I have documented. I'm not sure that helps your case defending her legacy, but hopefully we can agree that truth and accuracy is important no matter what.
Do you have a sense of chronology for the other two withdrawals, or where in her writings she mentions them? Let's put our heads together and figure this out.
Anon on Sept 27 at 11:25 am: By your own admission, Merie was withdrawn from and didn't come back from her last withdrawal I quote: "Her last withdrawal was in 1964, because she had no place that would fellowship her she began to knock on door and convert souls…"
I remember when I was with the group, a common saying was "How can one person be right but the whole church be wrong?" Good question to ask you, Anon. How can Merie be "right" but the whole church of Christ be wrong?
The truth is, even by your own admission, Merie was withdrawn from and did not honor that last withdrawal. Instead, she went out and got new recruits (as well as convincing a few from the coC) to follow HER. She continued to "murmur" against the church, and to sow seeds of discord about them. She even wrote it in letters!
So even YOU have to admit that she started her group in a way that YOU and all of the "main teachers" in that group would teach and warn against. Case in point, the one who was a main teacher and was "marked and avoided".
The ironic thing about that one, is that she was defending the very teachings that Merie left the coC to defend!
That's the thing that Merie's group (and you Anon) seem to keep forgetting. That when YOU point the finger at someone, there are three other fingers pointing right back at you!
Thank you, Debby. Stanton's teachings don't allow for a withdrawn from member, even if, and especially if withdrawn from unjustly, to speak out, leave, or dare to write letters back to the church, as Merie did. This is just blatant hypocrisy and cuts right at the root of this tree called Stanton. I'll be generous and say that the foundation is built on blind faith that Merie acted scripturally. It's absolutely clear she did not.
The structure cannot be better than the foundation it's built on. The student cannot be better than her teacher.
And yes, it is so ironic that the "mark and avoid" situation was the result of someone trying to defend Merie's teachings. This means the current group of teachers and evangelists are reformers of Merie's teachings. And if it needed reforming, it couldn't have been the pure truth it was claimed to be.
One thing that amazes me is the lack of successive leaders. In the Bible we read of Christ leading then Peter leading then Paul leading. In the SCOC it is only Merie that is exalted as a Holy and righteous leader. Has God left his people leaderless? Where are the equivalent leaders today in the SCOC? Who is risen to lead that is equal in understanding to Merie? Why hold to Merie as the leader when she died so many years ago? Is the SCOC trying to hide the fact that no one is receiving understandings from God today? Merie said is deceiving because it implies that I have understanding when the people who have understanding say "The bible says here in: book chapter and verse" Knowledge of the bible is what is needed not knowledge of Merie and defense of her reputation. What leader do I hold to? That's easy: Jesus Christ.
Debbie, I know you and your history very well. So I know you know the damage sowing seeds of discord among the brethren will do. This entire blog was started to bring down an entire Church of Christ through out the USA. All the accusers have showed up. And at a time when Christians are being destroyed by the world. You better be sure you are right in this matter before God not before each other. I love the scripture in Jude 9 that says, Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil and disputing about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke thee. You are all in a very dangerous position before heaven.
Your comment implies that you consider all of us as still part of your church, how could we sow discord among the brethren unless we are part of the brotherhood? How can we, the rejects and outcasts, have any effect upon the church and its members unless the whole church was reading this blog? It is sin that you should curse and not this blog which shines the light of truth upon your behavior. We know you also and more than you realize and your evil deeds will not be hid from the church. I love the scripture Proverbs 26:26 Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shown before the whole congregation. You can no longer hid your sin behind the pulpit from which you preach, leaders are just as accountable as the followers before God. I know the love of God from his word in Revelations 3:19 As many as I love I rebuke and chasten. A rebuke is a good thing to a christian and not a curse as you imply. Christians are not only destroyed by the world but also by wicked leaders within the church like Judas, Hymenaeus, Philetus, Doitrephes, and many more. We will not be intimidated into silence. rather we will continue to speak out against the abuses which have occurred.
Anon at Sept 28 @ 9:09 am you are a scratched record replaying the same old thing over and over. You had better fear leadership and not criticize us or else! What you should write about is the love of money which is rightly called the root of all evil. Like water corrupts metal so does covetousness corrupt people. It does not have to be your money that you are loving either! A congregation with a large collection is loved while a congregation with a small treasury is despised. The large treasury congregation gets special treatment from leadership being able to readily answer the requests of leadership for money for cars, houses, and any other request while the small treasury congregation gets roasted over an open flame for the minor infractions. The scriptures says that there are three uses for the Lord's treasury but in practice the local leaders hoard money neglecting the poor and needy, demanding that members pay out of their own pockets to start new churches , and demanding that members pay the expenses of vans and gasoline for "holiday" meetings which are suppose to edify, many times a year and the only thing the treasury was willing approved for was to keep the evangelist well funded. Life is great for those at the top but for the fatherless and widows is becomes unbearable, being at the lower end of the financial spectrum in the churches of Christ.
Anon 9:09, this "entire blog" was definitely NOT started to bring down any church, as anyone who's read it from the beginning knows. Some commenters may have that agenda, some don't. I don't.
I'm agnostic, or maybe more accurately, indifferent as to what should happen to the Stanton church as an organization. I would not shed tears of regret if it entirely disbanded tomorrow, but I would shed tears of joy, literally, if tomorrow it announced a new direction to only speak where the Bible speaks, and where it's silent, to actually be silent. Yes, I would cry happy tears if I heard that.
What I do know is that members should seriously align their lives as followers of Jesus Christ. Then whatever happens to this manmade organization happens, and it's of no consequence.
Anon on September 28 at 9:09am: Yes, I know the damage sowing seeds of discord will do, that is why I answered you as I did. You know it well too.
I'm not one of those who would like to see the group disbanded, I only want (and wanted) to see change in the group. I would like to see and hear teachers actually teach, instead of evil surmising and speaking evil of others and murmuring about others. No where in the scriptures do you see that liberty given to "teachers". Never did Paul say it was ok for "teachers" to murmur about members, but that members could not.
I would also love to see the evangelists out evangelizing, instead of hearing excuses as to why they should stay in their respective congregations. When the Lakeland congregation was in trouble, how many times did the evangelist come to assist or teach? When the congregation was told it should have an outside preacher come once a month, was it the evangelist who came? No. Was it the evangelist who enlisted the ones to come? No.
I only use that as one example, there are so many more.
No group or church is perfect. But the problem with Merie's group is that they do think they are perfect. And no one is allowed to think or say otherwise. Anyone who disagrees with this, is quickly dealt with by rebukes, false accusations, hidden threats-such as I know you and your history well-and even withdrawal.
But the one thing I would really like to see the group do, is to actually do as they promise everyone who comes to the bible classes-follow just the bible. Not the evangelist's interpretation of the bible, but the bible itself. Not your interpretation either, just God's word.
And really, truly, actually, let ones exercise their own conscience, let them learn from their own experiences. Let God judge them.
As Paul said in Galatians- Who hindered you from following the truth?
Also Anon at 9:09 am, I did notice that you did NOT once deny that Merie did NOT come back from her last withdrawal.
It does matter how many time she was withdrawn from, and it does matter how many times she came back.
You also did not address the comment many of the "teachers" of the group like to say-how can one person be right and the whole church be wrong?
The whole system of leadership in the group is set up for oppression. There is no accountability for the "teachers", nor is there any for the evangelists. For some odd reason, the evangelists think it's no one's business how much they are paid and by whom. This also leads to problems of misuse of the Lord's treasury, and the lack of accountability. Yet, how can members know if they are agreeing to spend the money in a way pleasing to God if they don't know where it's going and how much? And why are the evangelist afraid for ones to know how much they are receiving?
No one is teaching teachers how to teach, and checking on them to even see what they are teaching! When someone from a congregation tries to talk to an older one about what is being taught in their respective congregation, they are silenced.
I know of several members who were told that the evangelist would not speak with them if they called, when they wanted to share concerns about their teachers. And when those teachers were eventually withdrawn from, those same individuals were rebuked for not doing something about the oppression!
I would also like to see the group be honest about what they are teaching. Don't say we follow just the bible, but women have to wear socks/nylons, even though we don't have scriptures that say that.
And don't make scriptures out to be saying things they don't-for example, the bible does NOT say how many times Christ broke the bread at the last supper. It just simply says he broke it. Period. Yet I heard the SV evangelist say that it means Christ only broke it once. The truth is, the scripture doesn't specify, therefore we don't know. Period.
Those are just a few of my concerns about the group. There are many more. Change doesn't happen overnight, but it does need to happen. But I fear it won't, so long as the current leadership fears it will loosen their hold over the members.
Interesting the comments today. Why haven't the monies been accounted for or audited and then the results given to the congregation? Sounds like a bit of corruption as well as deceit and scare tactics that keep these uneducated people attending. Let's keep printing out the blog and leaving in public places.
Excellent points Debbie!!
Yes, thanks Debby. Well said.
"You are all in a very dangerous position before heaven."
No. You are correct in that they knowledge we are to follow it to come from God, but it has been seen that even the two Evangelists aren't following the scriptures. I have first hand knowledge of this as I have spoken with both of them what was going on in the Tacoma congregation. The one in CA basically ignored me and the one on the east coast turned it against me men when I had proof there were lying and murmuring preachers and teachers there.
The one from the east coast actually evil surmised about a situation. He, also, said in a talk around 10 years ago that when he was in court fighting a traffic ticket, where he knew he was in the right, that they judge told him that he basically blindly supports his officers, so he lost on that. That is the same thing that happened in Tacoma.
I was told that older teachers had more status and that outside preachers/teachers will listen to them more than me. We are all just brethren.
There is a great lack of that has been there since before I came back in 1999. Various preachers and teachers, I could name them if you want, were sent there to fix the problem only to make them worse.
That congregation has gotten so far away from Matthew 25 (goats} and the leaders are overlooking it.
I asked the preacher there which do I follow, scripture or example as they are not the same and he couldn't answer me. I kept taking it to them what was going on only to be threatened with withdrawl only to have it denied ever being said.
The motto of that congregation was, "ask not what the church can do for you, but what you can do for the church" when looking to the brethren, as we are scripturally told to do. And I mean in the was of help in have your brethren reach out to you when you are sick or suffering physical infirmities. We are told to do this in both looking to our brethren and reaching out to our brethren. People who looked to their brethren in these areas were labeled as selfish.
God sees this lack of love. We can see many scriptures teaching us to bear one another's burdens and we will be held accountable for not doing that. This weighs heavy on me as I know that on judgement day I am going to have to give answer why I didn't do these things for my brethren when I knew they needed help.
Take these scriptures to heart –
2 Corinthians 1:6,7 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.
1 Thessalonians 3:5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.
This is the heart a Christian is to have. That heart is not in Tacoma and it is being taught as this from the pulpit and classes. The congregation believes this is the way it is supposed to be. This is why Tacoma was known for a great lack of love. they are taught to ignore their brethren. Another example, one of the preacher's sons just started preaching, his wife just had a baby and missed some time, and he said from the pulpit that in all of the time his wife was out nobody even called her.
We are going to have to give answer for our lack of love towards our brethren. A preacher is going to have to answer for murmuring against the counseling of an Evangelist's wife, preachers and teachers are going to have to answer for their lies on top of the lack of love they advocate.
People wonder why people leave. There is no way I can work out my salvation in a congregation that is taught to ignore me for not committing any sin. What sins did I commit for most of the congregation to treat me as if I was withdrawn from. There was none.
I took it to the those who committed the sins, then I took two or three witnesses, then I took it to the counsel, they still wouldn't list. You know what was next. And they are following God's laws?
Yes I hope Anon that you all in Merie's church are recognizing that same scripture applies to you. That you all are responsible for the oppression and severe discouragement of so many. Some here have worse discouragements but one example I can think of is getting pressured from JS and DS who had just come from Memphis to SA a couple years ago. To be told that the sisters in Memphis all left their children at 6 weeks to begin the personal work and that I should do the same. What an affront to the conscience! I should have never have been put in that position. I chose correctly but the influence they hold and exercise is too much. Is that God's law, or the Church of Weiss?
Yet you people will continue to defend these things and excuse them. But you know you are not following a scriptural system with elders as overseers and true autonomy so the whole thing is built on sand anyway.
@M Long ! I definitely am not wishing harm on anyone,but it’s great Dominic S, his wife are no longer preaching & teaching.
The father of rage is no longer abusing from the pulpit? His uncontrolled anger quickly turned into uncontrolled rage behind the pulpit as he screamed for hours non stop, four and half hours in San Antonio at his apogee of abuse, and many Christians followed his example, both men and women, and address any perceived weakness with their own uncontrolled rage. The parents who turned into child abusers were first abused emotionally themselves by this man and having accepted abuse as a Christian virtue then in turn became abusers themselves. The wicked tree of abuse has stopped preaching but who is going to teach all of his Christian victims that abuse of other who are weaker than you is evil?
In proverbs 1:11-13 it describes the beliefs and associated behaviors of the wicked. It describes a belief in ambushing and overpowering and killing and robbing their victims and you can read examples of this with Cain and Able, Esua and Jacob, King Saul and David, and on and on and on. In the proverbs if you take the word fool and use the synonym “carnal” you get a deeper understanding. My first teaching preacher was carnal and would fly into a rage and verbally overpower any offense real or just perceived, and many still follow his pernicious ways. The arrogant the oppressive are an abomination to God as stated in Proverbs 3:32 and if you suffer from uncontrolled rage you too have been under oppression.
One of the many things that would baffle me was how he would preach the necessity of daily study of the Bible but then do everything possible to make sure you had no time to study. One roommate would when seeing me sit down to study in the evening suddenly want go go out for an ice cream and fellowship. I then would get up early to study and my roommate would leave for work then return five minutes later for some unknown reason and this happened repeatedly until I would have to go and hide to get any study time. The super secret teaching method of constant criticism made little sense either. At first I thought I was being critized for not following a biblical commandment but in time realized that the constant criticism was just the teacher expressing his discontentment with me as a person. I asked one time about the “gates of hell” as a gate is a defensive tool and not a weapon of offense and it made little to me why Christ would say that and the response was not any help in understanding it either but today I understand it as a metaphor for physical death and of Christ’s resurrection and it was spoken to give hope and encouragement to his followers when they would have to be without their leader after his death. So little understanding but so great a demand for respect of the teachers authority, again it was confusing. There is great treasure to be found in God’s word but you must fight for your time to study it, and not let anyone discourage you from getting your understandings.
As a babe I was taught Psalms 34:7 that Christians have divine protection and in Proverbs 2:7 Solomon qualifies God’s protection to those who walk uprightly so it is implied that those who go astray are not under God’s protection. It is sad to see the wicked Christian scorn God’s instruction and refuse to repent of his pedophila and refuse to confess to all the children he has molested even though he said “okay if that’s how you feel” when he was instructed to stand and confess. In the town of El Mirage AZ there was a triple homicide this past week in the same neighborhood where the pedophile lives, does he believe that he is still under God’s protection? If he does he is only deceiving himself for it is obvious to the whole church who the individual is that is bringing a curse upon the rest of the churches.
An interesting character study is king Herod. If you take proverbs 1:20-33 and apply it to king Herod you will see the pattern of wisdom (personified by John the baptist) teaching a simple man the gospel first John would have to establish the divinity of God’s word then convict him of his sin, then offer the plan of salvation but it is implied that when convicting him of his sin that Herod scorned him when John taught him that it was not lawful for Herod to have his brothers wife. Later in life when Herod meets wisdom again ( personified by Jesus) that wisdom refused to teach him anything as referenced in Proverbs 1:28 and displayed by Christ’s silence when questioned by Herod. Today one might ask why are there no baptisms and no answer is given to those who have already scorned instruction about the child predator in the Phoenix area congregation. Think about God’s silence and see the pattern in Proverbs 1:20-33
Schism is a great study. The division between people belonging to the same group due to strongly held opposing beliefs. In the old testament you can read of the schism between the ten tribes of Israel and the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin and see how both sides went astray from their God. There is another schism that is only inferred by God’s behavior against his own chosen people and that is the schism between good and evil. When Israel was more evil then their neighbors then God blessed the unbelievers and cursed Israel. In the COC I was a part of their were two kinds of Christians that being the predators and the pray. The predators would financially exploit the new babes borrowing money, sometimes as much a 6,000.00 dollars in one instance, and never pay it back(which is theft by another name) One man abandoned his wife and children and when the estranged wife went begging in the streets she was withdrawn from but her irresponsible husband suffered no withdrawal nor was he shamed at all. These are the privileges of being a predator that being no shame, no withdrawal, no arrests but for the prey only suffering and exploitation by the predatory Christians. Today there is a schism between God and his church and it is really the schism between good and evil. Pedophiles are evil in my opinion, as are child abusers and deadbeat parents and those who offer bribes and those who accept bribes and those who commit adultery/fornication and all those who exalt themselves over God and justify their evil behaviors by saying “Merie said”.
In Genesis 3 we read of the transgression of Adam and Eve. God created man, then established a law against the eating of the fruit and a penalty for the transgression which was certain death. Then Adam and Eve transgressed but were not put to death and one has to ask why. Adam and Eve received mercy for their sins and were punished less than they deserved. God, the authority investigated the matter by asking questions found out who was to blame then gave a split judgment(three way split) and the punishments fit the guilt of each party proportionally, God kept the law and showed mercy at the same time. Adam and Eve were naive not rebellious and knew God’s instructions as seen in Eve’s answer but she was seduced that is led away from obedience to God by the false promise of great wisdom. Taking into consideration the full picture the death penalty was excessive and therefore unjust. God the great judge uses both his law and mercy to teach us obedience and not our destruction.
In Matthew 24:48-51 Christ speaks about the behavior of a good servant who turns evil and how he begins to fellowship with gluttons and drunkards and turns violent toward his equals. This description matches the end of king Solomons life as he details in Ecclesiastes and his abusive behavior is mentioned in 2 chronicles chapter 10 how he whipped his fellow countrymen. What is the root behind his behavior? Grandiosity. With the desire for grandiosity one must do greater and greater things to be satisfied with oneself that you are superior to and above all your enemies and safe from persecution of criticism. But it is all a lie because we are all created equal and will be criticized no matter what height we attain unto. With sexual grandiosity one seeks greater and greater thrills until one becomes vile and disgusting, this desire for sexual grandiosity is the root of all sexual perversions. How much better example is Christ who said I am meek and LOWLY in heart. Christ had an aversion to all grandiosity and was the greatest man who ever lived. Christ is the example for all who desire righteousness.
No one is as virtuous as each believes themselves to be, and none was ever so wicked as each believes the other to be. You call me wicked, fair enough but consider your own behavior as well. Financial exploitation of a follower by a teacher was observed when the Tow truck teaching preacher willingly accepted hundreds and perhaps thousands of dollars in free repair and upgrades to his tow truck while the Volkswagen mechanics estranged wife went begging in the streets of Oxnard CA, and no one called for financial relief for the poor woman, I consider that financial exploitation and saw it with mine own eyes. Leading one into temptation I saw when my ex wife decided to seek child support from the father of her second child’s father; and two men had to undergo DNA testing to determine the true father was; who turned out was a convicted felon fresh out of prison, who had gotten her pregnant the first time then forced her to get an abortion, then got her pregnant a second time but she fled the murderous and thieving father with the second child, then when he was looking to have to pay child support showed up and suddenly wanted to be a father{but really so he did not have to pay child support} and what was the council?” If I had a dad I would want to know”, {no scripture no real life experience just hate filled council} and guess what? they commit adultery and she gets pregnant by him a third time while married to a Christian man and he abandons her and the two children again and never did pay a penny in child support nor fathered his children at all and then the Christian is expected to support all of the others man children because he was “disabled” and could not work {which was a lie because he was working for cash as a janitor} Who would choose a murder and thief over a righteous man?, it seems I read that somewhere once before. And two years later he suddenly died of a brain aneurysm. Your hate filled council exposed a the Christian woman to her former lover instead of setting up boundaries against adultery your council set up the adultery and destruction of the marriage and family. You should never give family council to anyone as it only results in the destruction of ones family. I am wicked? Look in the mirror Mr. evangelist and see the devil himself. How many Christians faith have you destroyed? How many marriages have you destroyed? Christianity is a strait and narrow path indeed and few there be that find it and many there be that abandon it once they are tried by fire. We are equally wicked but I forgive you and pray for your salvation once you stop protecting the active pedophile in the Phoenix area congregation.
Well the pedophile has sold his house in Suprise AZ on Feb 1st and moved again, this time to points unknown. I pity the congregation that is cursed with his presence, like Ben Franklin said “if you sleep with dogs you will get fleas.” There is a singer from the 60’s named Niel Diamond whose song called “Sweet Caroline” is the national anthem for Pedophiles. Niel Diamond wrote it to 6 year old Caroline Kennedy after seeing a picture of her after her fathers death. The touching of children whether it be a pat on the head, or a hand on the shoulder, or any other seemingly innocent gesture involving touching of children is sexualized in the mind of a pedophile, but not to anyone else, it is a hidden red flag that only trained professionals can spot. If you have a man who shows up in your congregation who works as a plumber and served two years and five months in the army as a combat medic then beware of him for he is a serial pedophile and your children will not be safe. It is sad that he had chosen to lie and run away and hide rather than to stand and confess his sins and be forgiven. Perhaps like David hiding in a cave when being pursued by King Saul or the proverbial Conie hiding in the rocks he thinks he will be safe but not so, for many will say to the rocks fall on us, but God will reveal this mans sins to all the churches that he may be shamed. And what do the pedophiles say when finally caught? It was the children who seduced me! Lies all lies from men trying to escape the punishment due to them. What about church leadership that fosters the environment that allows this man to exist amongest its members? Do they say like the preacher from Albuquerque “I don’t want to hear it” when told of imminent adultery?( The preacher from Albuquerque did baptize the man) or will they blame the victims saying the children should have resisted the man? or some other excuse to get out of the responsibility of protecting the flock from predators? Whom does leadership serve, themselves or the brethern?
I've come to call it Merie's Church of Christ since she started it.
Hello Seeking! Welcome to the site here! I doubt that you and I have met, my husband and I left in 2006. It took us a while to make the decision, and we each made it on our own, separate from each other.
We have never regretted it!
You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and are correct about what you are observing. What you will find is that it's going to get worse for you, the longer that you stay in. Mainly because-how dare you!-you think for yourself.
I don't mean that in a bad way! I don't mean the kind of think for yourself in "leaning unto your own understanding." What I mean is that you look at what is happening and you see the fruits-just as Christ said that by their fruits you will know them. Their fruits are not good.
What muddies the water, so to speak, is that there are really good and sincere and loving individuals in the group. But don't let that distract you from the fruits you are seeing.
Leaving the group is NOT falling away from God! I had to leave in order to continue to follow Him. What the group expected from me went against my conscience, and against what I see in scripture. And if I had violated my conscience, gone against what I knew to be true and right, eventually I would have had none left.
BTW, my husband and I call it "Merie's Group".
So glad you found this site!!
Matthew 7:15-20 By their fruits ye shall know them. Grapes and figs are from the plant kingdom as are thorns and thistles; however grapes and figs are good things that help others and thorns and thistles are plants that bear no fruit but do help themselves to the land. If you take the figs and grapes and thorns and thistles analogy and apply this knowledge to Christ and Satan you develop understanding very quickly. Of the two, Christ and Satan who helped others and who only took for himself? Of the two, Christ and Satan which ones followers grow stronger and which ones followers grow weaker? Of the two, Christ and Satan which one is merciful and which one is merciless? Now look at your preachers and teachers and apply the same standards as Christ and Satan, which example of leadership do you see: selfless or selfish? Look at Proverbs 6:6-11 the sluggard and the ant and again apply Christ and Satan. Of the two, Christ and Satan which one worked like and ant and which one worked like a sluggard? Of the two, Christ and Satan which one worked and provided for the citizens of their kingdom, and which one was a sluggard and expected others to provide for him? Of the two, Christ and Satan, which ones kingdom is filled with the necessities for life and which kingdom is desolate? Then look at your preachers and teacher and ask which example are they following, Christ or Satan? Do the lessons and sermon feed your soul or leave you empty and wanting? MY teacher had two lessons: your going to Hell and Lets worship the evangelist in Spring Valley, vain repetitious lessons, By the time I heard his third lesson I realized I had heard both his lessons. In Spring Valley you will hear the same repetitious lesson: I am the good fruit and everyone else is the bad fruit. Apply the Bible back onto the bible and develop your own contextual understanding and feed your own soul Christian, for you will spiritually starve on vain repetitious lessons.
Every time you read something in the bible and do not understand it then look for an example of it in the bible. No matter what the subject matter the bible has an example it somewhere. I always wondered why an olive branch was a symbol of peace and you see it in Genesis 8:11 that the dove returned to Noah with an olive leaf in her mouth, so if it intentional or by default the olive leaf became a sign of peace; that is the end of God's wrath. In romans 11:17 you see how the Apostle Paul uses the olive tree and wild olive branch grafted in to teach the Romans. Why did Paul choose the olive tree instead of some other plant? The leaf from the dove had grown into a tree; that is the way to find peace with God was to become part of the nation of Israel, and the goodhearted gentiles found the same peace with God through Christ. Revelations 11:4 mentions the two olive trees, again the two ways that man has found peace with God; the nation of Israel and the Church of Christ. To develop understandings look for the examples given in the Bible of the things you don't understand.
Thanks, Debby. My husband and I already left. After some initial shock of separating from those we love there, we are actually feeling relieved. I'm already visiting another coc and I do like it. I visited a couple others but this one might be it for us. I've read your comments throughout. Definitely thought-provoking and balanced.
Going fishing, please play with blocks
Cynthia has started the goulash situation so be careful
Foreign object distribution when they’re willing to use.
Starting yesterday morning vehicles will be here and running
Virginia should have been thinking about it but still has applied with funds for the next month.
Excellent example for exploring the world of my faves.
Crazy hair day and then blamed for weeks.
Maybe another person who is inconsiderate with me and you will do it for freedom.
Perhaps you should have just started shredding the whole cloves instead of storing them.
I see your voice on the porch.
First-time baby friends can catch me.
William is in town for the creative creation under the house.
Cecile and Rhoda road training and driving back from Kansas where they were.
Successful developmental growth challenges are not allowed.
Brandon and Veronica’s first fishes were having chest pains
Rate your attorney’s numbers more
Medical engineering system science analyst native office is a little vague
Crazy round eight episodes plus other news things.
Nudge object height activity that eliminates.
No one knows Trump or anyone famous without television.
The birth of TV was a magical event foreshadowing its Satanic significance. The first commercial broadcast was aired on Walpurgisnacht, April 30th, 1939, at the New York World’s Fair. Since then, TV’s infiltration has been so gradual, so complete, that no one even noticed. People don’t need to go to church any more; they get their morality plays on television. What began modestly as rabbit ears on top of family TV sets are now satellite dishes and antennas pridefully dominating the skyline, replacing crosses on top of churches. The TV set, or Satanic family altar, has grown more elaborate since the early 50s, from the tiny, fuzzy screen to huge “entertainment centers” covering entire walls with several TV monitors. What started as an innocent respite from everyday life has become in itself a replacement for real life for millions, a major religion of the masses. . . . The clergy of the TV religion are those entertainers, newscasters in particular, who nightly spread the Word from their cathode-ray pulpit.5
Jew, Anton Lavey, founder of the Church of Satan