“The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.”
~Mark Twain
I have to apologize to readers (again) for being absent from responding and moderating the blog for so long. I know there are some things I need to clean up, and inappropriate comments to delete. I intended to do that this past weekend, but here it is my lunch hour on Monday and it’s still not done.
I started a new job last Spring and had a daughter get married over the summer, so family time has become a lot more scarce, and therefore a bit more precious. I have some reading to do to catch up, but I’m looking forward to reengaging with the conversation.
P.s. – Just as a reminder to newbies, the articles on this blog are the ONLY things that can be attributed to me personally. The articles express my own opinions in as accurate and kind a way as I know how, but I don’t have control over the commenting, nor the time to moderate inappropriate material in real-time.
To those who have helped with this by emailing me specific items that need to be deleted, thank you!
UPDATE
1. Deleted some profanity, please send me links to specifics and I’ll delete others.
2. Reminder: Keep it classy and conversational, people, or I’ll have to shut comments down. I want to provide a forum for intelligent conversation, not a gutter to throw mud around.
3. Ronnie: Asking “If Stanton isn’t the right church, which one is?” is the wrong question and you’ll get the wrong answer every time, because there is no perfect, infallible church. Not Stanton, not the Christian Churches, not any of them. That is the point.
A scriptural local church is a body of believers, not a specific denomination or sect meeting in a specific address. See my article This one little problem with the One True Church claim. Even the churches in Revelation within the lifespan of the apostles had strayed. If Stanton truly had been on the right track by dividing from mainline CoCs (which they weren’t, but go with me here), they would be beset by the same problems as the churches described in Revelation: human error.
A better question is “Where can I worship and grow in knowledge and grace and love and generosity and all the other fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5?”
Listen to a former member of a church speak about the cult he had been in. That cult recently was involved in beating a young man to death. The SCOC doesn't do that but everything else the man talked about was spot on about the Merie Weiss sect. Chilling.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/16/us/new-york-church-assault-case/index.html
This is a better link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMAdGg_py7s
One of the unwritten lessons I was taught in the SCOC was that of harshness. In the military from day one you are treated harshly and this is done with good reason: because the men are being prepared for war. In the first two weeks after my baptism I was treated harshly by the teaching preacher and I accepted this as normal because of the military, but christianity is not preparing men for war but for peace. In a nation that is at war the entire populace is subject to harshness of life due to the conflict. People who have to endure harshness in wartime adopt harshness as a way of life and never realize what they are doing or why people do not like them. In my studies this week in Matthew 5 Jesus talks about the blessing to be received for gentle behaviors like being a peace maker and being meek. There was no limit on the amount or depth of harshness used by church leaders in the SCOC on the members and as a result many left dazed and confused. Gentleness should be the norm not harshness.
This is so true that anybody should feel like they are walking on egg shells in the church. It has gotten that if anybody even thinks or judges you incorrectly that it could be brought out to you that you are in sin.
I watched that video and what he was saying was a lot of what I was going through in my congregation. Too many times people have gotten into trouble for things that they did not do and the biggest problem is that the preachers/teachers saw no wrong in this. I have actually had the scriptures used against me to justify these actions that tell us this treatment will only make us stronger.
What's not taken into consideration is human reaction. When you constantly mistreat people they will begin to avoid you and can eventually lose respect for you.
Another thing that happens is that when members are constantly bombarded with sins they did not do other members can start reacting to it and the victim(s) start getting treated as if they are withdrawn from.
People are causing other people to feel this way and you will never see in the NT anywhere anybody doing this as a teaching and/or exhortation to build up the congregation.
This isn't sinking into the heads of those who are not only doing this or those who can do something about it. Why alienate and downgrade your brethren just to try to convince them they are in a sin that they are not really in? Christianity is supposed to be about mercy and building up your brethren.
Don't forget them in the valley – TC.
I really wish I could get this talk on here so that everybody could listen to it and see how that TC talks how things are supposed to be done, but we can see that the church is doing the exact opposite of what that talk is.
Lynn the human reaction you speak of is: emotions. The false teaching that christians are not emotional people blinds them to the effect they are having on others, how they are hurting others feelings. The teaching comes from the arrogant mind and not from the conscience mind. The arrogant with their superiority complex can never be wrong, and the false teaching that teachers are just like bishops and worthy of double honor and so can't be reproved again blinds them to the damage they are doing to the sheep. Rest assured these are those who will argue with Christ on judgement day saying look at all my good works I have done in your name and we know the Lord's reply: depart from me ye that work iniquity. Rest assured brother they have a punishment coming for their arrogance.
Thank you Anon October 18, 2015 at 7:09 PM
I have a recorded copy of that talk that TC did and still listen to as he was right on the money as to how we are to be towards each other. His conclusions were great exhortations that could heal a lot of what brethren are going through. To bad, in most cases, it isn't applied or exercised. If anybody else has a copy of that, go and relisten to it and you will see.
Lynn you are right about the assumptions that teachers in the Stanton group make, and then how the accused Christians are treated.
The dictionary defines surmise as :" to accuse; to infer without conclusive evidence; to guess."
Guess is defined as "to form a judgment without actual knowledge."
When my husband and I were rebuked for moving to a town outside of Tampa, (the teacher had counselled that it was ok and that he was thinking of moving there too), we were also rebuked for being late to personal work several time. Also, for not repenting of being late and for not confessing it.
The trouble is, my husband and I BOTH didn't know that the time for the meeting of personal work had changed. We were doing what the group calls a "home study", which the teacher had approved. We weren't at the meeting when the time was changed, and no one informed us of the change.
This teacher, VM, brought up the subject of being late for personal work at the next personal work meeting. In front of all the other Christians. We told the teacher that we didn't know about the time change, and he said he "didn't see how that could be!"
My point is this: The two teachers in the Tampa congregation were so sure they knew why we were late, that when they heard the true reason they saw it as a lie. To them, they weren't guessing or evil surmising, they KNEW the real reason. It never occurred to them that there could be another reason of the lateness.
I know the Stanton group teaches to just take the rebuke and use what fits. But the problem is, it isn't that simple.
1. The other Christians in the congregation started treating us differently. We weren't called on to share in bible classes anymore. It was almost as though we were withdrawn from.
2. Any time the teachers in the congregation would counsel with another teacher about us, the fact that we were "unrepentive "of our sin was still there. This would affect any judgment made.
3. And, of course, how the teachers in our congregation saw us and treated us was very different than before.
4. And then there is the simple question of how could I trust my teacher? I knew he had counselled us and then rebuked us for following his counsel. And that he wrongly saw me as a liar and unrepentive of a sin that I hadn't done.
What were our choices? I had called out before about my teacher oppressing me, and they had sent a preacher to help right things. The problem is, it was done quietly, and our teacher was back up the next Sunday preaching. And no changes were made. He made one confession to me, and didn't talk with me to work things out.
And he continued right on doing what he had been doing all along. Only this time I couldn't get anyone to listen to me.
I've been there too, Lynn. It finally dawned on me that what they meant by "working things out" only means that I need to conform. But I can't admit to something that I didn't do, or confess something that isn't sin. That would be a lie.
But I want ones out there to know that with God there is equity and justice. And if they aren't getting that, then God isn't with that group.
Ain't it funny how the scriptures say we aren't suppose to evil surmise, yet the ScoC says that it's ok for their teachers to do it? I don't see anywhere in the scriptures where there is an exception.
I tried to point that out, once, and it was just ignored. If you even dare to try to say that their surmising is incorrect you get labeled as somebody who justifies and.or defends themselves. You are just supposed to take it and make an confession.
"Offenses will come, but woe unto him by whom they come."
People are getting offended by this practice. Why would I want to justify offending the people of God by these practices?
One thing I've noticed about the children of abusers-they themselves become abusers. (of course, not all but still a large number). It's the same with spiritual abusers, they raise up ones who see nothing wrong with abusing others. So of course the ScoC sees nothing wrong with their practice of abusing their members. And yes, that is what it is!
What they do instead is to continue the abuse by making it seem as though there is something wrong with the victim. They aren't spiritual enough, or it's just pride that makes them react to abuse, and that they just need to toughen up. I had KS tell me once that they experienced the same thing with Merie and it didn't hurt them any!
But that's just it-the abused don't see it as harmful, because then they have to admit there is something wrong with them. To say that the abuse is ok and causes no harm, or to deny that it is abuse, is the natural response of an abuser. It is always the fault of the victim. Always.
A great thing I have figured out is that it seems that people try to live their Christianity according to their personalities. Instead of fully letting the mercy, empathy, love, and understanding of God fully fill their their hearts they dispense the gospel in accordance to their carnal personalities. So, if their carnal lives are without the things that I listed they will come out in how they deal with people.
I heard of a statement that the religious world has and I even heard GP make it in a talk. "Only Christians shoot their wounded." Just stop and think what that really means. When our own brethren need us the most there are some who will only be there to make things more difficult and this is usually done by badgering the brethren in what they are going through rather than bearing one another's burdens.
If you have ever heard one of the evangelists lessons in Spring Valley, about the plants in his yard, then you have heard his main belief: he believes and that all his fellow Christians are "bad fruit" compared to him. His lesson is repeated often with various plants and he points out how it looks good but is just bad fruit. By labeling people as "bad fruit" then you can treat them as badly as you want and it will not bother your conscience. I was taught to do this by my father as I grew up but we called it stereotyping and it leads to discrimination of others. What an easy job it is to say: ahhh their just bad fruit, don't worry how they feel. But what goes around comes around, and one of the great abusers, DWC, got abused and rejected herself. makes you wonder if any of their teachings were true at all and whom are they really serving?
He did a talk called, "Dying on the Vine" years ago.
I have reported the COC to the FBI for cult behavior. I hope they get shut it down.
This is funny
Very funny. Russia anyone?
Children in Soviet Russia got lionized for reporting their parents to the authorities for criticizing Stalin, Communism, or any other leader. There is a freedom of religion in America, and I am pretty confident whoever anonymous at 5:42 P.M is, they have no idea what religion is, and even less of an idea of the history of America and religious Tolerance. David Koresh, Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate and Marshall Applewhite were all cults, the Stanton Church of Christ isn't even close to being a cult except in the fevered imaginations of those who have a huge concept of perceived wrongs done them by the church and a tiny concept of their own wrong of ignorance. To rely on a government who is corrupt and lies all the time to police a church who you don't agree with, is absolutely ludicrous. Besides, if you are a christian, Paul is very clear that you don't take church matters to civil authorities.
We have an FBI that can't find Hillaries "missing" emails, that refuses to prosecute one of the most corrupt political parties on earth, the Democrats, which sees nothing with homosexual marriage, when not one successful society in human history tolerated it, and sees nothing wrong with permitting mindwarping and mindaltering drugs like marijuana, and you think they will bring justice to the Church of Christ? That is downright laughable.
Very well said Martin Luther. You represent your name sake well.
Thank you Concerned. Going to keep PUSHing:) Pray Until Something Happens.
To Martin Luther and Concerned: I agree with some of what Martin Luther was saying. I don't believe that the Stanton Group is a cult in the same sense that those he listed are. BUT…it is an offshoot of the "Mainstream" churches of Christ. I know that the Stanton Group believes they are the "true church of Christ" and that the other (off) churches are lost.
The Stanton Group does indeed isolate it's members from reading outside material and other versions of the bible (other than the KJV). They isolate members from family who are not members of the Stanton Group. And only their interpretation of scripture is allowed. These are marks of a cult. Again, not like David K's group, but a cult nonetheless.
As to "perceived wrongs" done to individuals, they are not perceived only. They actually happened and still happen. For Martin Luther to try and minimize this is insulting, and typical of the Stanton Group. That is one of the methods of an oppressor, make the victim the bad guy. Claim they are making it up or convince ones that the victim had their pride offended.
This, folks, is spiritual abuse. Instead of talking it our and working things out, the Stanton Group uses public rebuke to merely silence someone. No one is allowed to disagree with teachers, even privately. There is no active dialogue between the teacher and the individual who disagrees.
When someone is rebuked publically, the victim is rarely allowed to go and talk to the teacher about it-even privately. The public rebuke is the final say so, no matter how inaccurate it is. There is no equity or justice in that kind of environment. Yet the scriptures constantly tell us that our God is a God of equity and Justice. So why wouldn't the church be of the same?
I don't know why the leaders in the Stanton Group can't see that a lot of what they are teaching is inaccurate, and that some of the methods they employ to enforce those teachings are unscriptural.
I still have hope that ones will be able to see this, and will leave the group. However, it would be better if the group could recognize this and work to change!
But in the meantime, please do not minimize the experiences of individuals who were of the group.
I was raised in the church, but not a member. What I don't get is why you just don't say really who you are. I think I remember it was Jerimiah that said don't be afraid of their faces and Jesus who said fear not them that can only kill, but fear God who can kill both body and soul. Why are you so scared to say your real name. Would'nt that make a bigger impact on those you are trying to affect. Why am I under anonymous. I'm still pretty young and don't want to hurt anybody. Is that why you all won't put your real name.
I woke up thinking about your request for an anonymous answer. You gave your reason for wanting to remain in the protective shroud of anonymous, each one of us has a different reason. And so I will speak for myself.
Unlike you I had very many years in the Stanton Churches of Christ. In fact I think I can say I grew up in the culture that it offered for anyone who wanted as close to the scriptures as they could possibly get. As time melted away I realized I had spend more time in the Kingdom of Christ than I had in the devils kingdom. Realizing this I found a wonderful fulfillment
The Stanton Churches of Christ is filled with the most amazing people I had ever met. I found I would have died for them, still would to this day. And because I know their dedication, their love for the things of God, and their hatred of what they consider evil I greatly fear speaking negative of them. I look at my life choices and see that I do not quality as one who can throw the first stone.
My reason for anonymous? If I gave you my real name I could no longer participate in this blog. There are evil people here that would tear and rend without mercy every word and statement I would try to point out. I believe I can speak much better what I know to be right in this room rather in place of my real name.
To Anon November 7 at 9:54 am: I know that it may be puzzling to you as to why ones wish to remain anonymous, but rest assured each has a reason! Some have had a bad experience in the Stanton Group, and still fear the repercussions of disagreeing with the group. Their experiences are still very vivid in their minds! Others just wish for their words to be examined, and not their persons. And I'm sure there are even more reasons!
But for concerned to say there are evil persons on this blog is ridiculous. It would be the same for me to say that there are evil people in the Stanton group-which I don't believe. They may believe in different ways to handle things, and may have different interpretations of scripture than I do, but I do not believe they are evil.
Just because someone believes differently than I do does not make them evil. Just because someone disagrees with me does not make them evil. One or all of us may be mistaken but it doesn't make us evil.
Unfortunately, that is one of the biggest problems in the Stanton group-no one can disagree with them. If they do, they will be disciplined, and sometimes even withdrawn from. As you can see with what concerned said in his post, you will be considered evil.
Also, the Stanton group does not approve of members reading or posting on this blog, so if names were given they would be facing discipline by the group. Only certain teachers and evangelists are allowed to read and post on blogs such as this.
What a lot o members don't realize is that some of the things the group teaches has come from outside sources. For example, the current teaching on marriage and remarriage. KS introduced it to GP, and she got it from the "off church". But of course, this is not commonly known.
It's ok to post anonymously. We want members of the Stanton group to be able to read and post on this blog! And if doing it as anonymous is the only way they can feel comfortable doing so then so be it!
I think concerned hit the nail on the head and spoke for most here-"I believe I can speak much better what I know to be right in this room rather in place of my real name."
I guess I can understand…I think, but if I remember my mom teaching us that a Christian was to be glad and happy when they were persecuted when they did right. If your right what is there to be scared of. It's like I think Paul said yell it from the top of house and he wasn't scared to have his name made. I still think it is being a coward to not stand up and not fear man (I think that's what was said to me)
To Anon 11/7 @ 7:30. I've been withdrawn from for four years by the Stanton group, and excommunicated, for no other reason than I disagreed with them. Realizing their stagnant growth is due to their not realizing that the church is a hospital for sinners not a museum for saints, I tried to let them know that sinners often can and do overcome sin and become completely transformed, and it is a matter of God's timing, not theirs. Human wisdom and understanding fails to comprehend the might and majesty of our maker. But one of the primary sins of the Old and New Testament was the sin of unbelief. Those who could not believe and have faith in God and his deliverance often failed to obtain it. From the Jews who were stuck in the Wilderness for 40 years because of their doubt about the Promised land, with the only two who thought they were able, Joshua and Caleb, being the sole survivors, to the words in Revelation about who is going to Hell, which begins with "the fearful and unbelieving", the Bible is very clear about needing to believe before deliverance, not after.
The church has too often relegated certain unmentionable sins as "incurable", and labelled them as leaving "lifelong" effects, that only the church can identify. That is ridiculous in light of history. John Newton was an atheist, a rapist, a probable baby killer, and a slave ship captain, and successfully converted christians from christianity to atheism. Yet this same man became a Christian, and a preacher, and was instrumental in ridding England of the Slave Trade without them having to fight a Civil War like America. Every single christian in Stanton has sang Number 12, "Amazing Grace", yet they don't believe in the Grace they sing about.
As if that is not enough, Rahab was a prostitute in the book of Joshua, and by helping the Jewish spies escape, she was saved from the wreckage of Jericho. This woman, married a Jewish warrior named Salmon, and had a son. Her son's name was Boaz, and he starred in one of the greatest love stories in history and in the Bible in the book of Ruth. So kindly don't tell me about the effects of sin that we have to bear. If some wish to be ignorant and ignore God's mercies and pretend as if he is some weak, pathetic, incapable God, help yourself, but he God I see is infinitely powerful, invincible, and there is no depth too deep that his saving grace cannot rescue. That is not to be abused, but did not David say, "Thy patience and gentleness made me great" in Psalms? Stanton's unwillingness to recognize this is handicapping, shackling, and disabling them individually and it is destroying their growth.
Still addressing Anon 11/7 @ 7:30. I agree they try to restrict exposure to outside knowledge and wisdom, and are fond of the idea that all knowledge and wisdom are contained in the Stanton Church of Christ. That is not pride at all. That is obviously humility as it takes lowliness to recognize that you know everything and everyone else knows nothing:) Ironically, if you disagree with this assessment, you step into the mother of a bear trap, for they will then inform you that YOU are proud, and YOU need to learn to be humble, and stop thinking YOU know everything.
Of course, the minute any human vaunts their knowledge and understanding above every other humans, is the minute they stop praying to God for more and pursuing wisdom, and the minute they start stagnating. That has been happening with this group for some time.
I disagree that Stanton is a cult, as they are sincerely following the Bible as they know it, and cannot be faulted. The NT says those who know and do not do will be whipped with many stripes, Stanton legitimately thinks they know, just like the Pharisees, and unfortunately does not. The Pharisees were not a cult, though plenty unpleasant, and they killed people, including Christ. The church today does not do this. Besides, it is wise to remember nothing hurts any of us but our own wrong choices. If anyone on here will be judged on Judgement Day for anything other than their own thoughts, actions,and words, I'd like to meet you, as I've never seen anyone like this in history or met anyone like this either. I'm not minimizing it, just recommending their wrong treatment be endured like Joseph endured his far more harsh treatment so that we, like Joseph, can finally say, "God meant it for the good". Stanton is guilty of the same spiritual pride the Pharisees had, as a matter of fact, Stanton is perfectly typified by the Pharisee in the Publican and Pharisee parable told by Christ. The Pharisee avoided evil sins, and did a lot of good, but he wasn't accepted because he thought he was entitled to Christ, and was better than others. If Stanton is any different, I'd like to know about this. There is nothing wrong with airing grievances, but there is a lot wrong with calling Stanton a cult, and trying to call the FBI in. That is overkill, and completely ludicrous. To think that the Federal Government, which is completely corrupt, and can't understand that using taxpayer dollars to pay for murdering children in the womb via Planned Parenthood is evil, is ridiculous. Furthermore, it's head is a deluded man named Barack Obama who is a lying hypocrite and our nations worst president in our history. He is a man who must have had concrete in his ears in church when they taught the Bible's views of marriage, because he managed to mangle the institution horribly, and is evangelizing homosexuality around the world. You think this government is going to correct the Stanton church? You'd be just as correct as Neville Chamberlain coming back to Britain with a peace agreement he signed with Hitler, proclaiming he had obtained "Peace in our Time". He was pathetically mistaken. I agree that teaching exists that is not accurate, and the enforcement is often unscriptural and overbearing. Been watching this since I was a child 36 years ago. I was not shocked or astounded at what happened to me, as I had plenty of examples before me instructing exactly what to expect. So when the church completely ignored me, scorned, spurned, and ridiculed me, I was prepared. I had watched, wide-eyed, as a child when this was done, and hadn't realized this was my college on the future:) If you do not realize that it is God's perception of you that matters, and that your salvation is from God alone, you are lost. They will break your spirit. Many of those who are resentful and bitter are those who fail to understand that God can be served, even when we are wronged by those we thought served him.
Abraham Lincoln was approached by a woman who had similar sentiments as you do about Stanton. She had them about the South. She approached Lincoln, and told him, "Aren't you ashamed of yourself, you just let all the Southern boys go free and they killed our Northern soldiers"? Lincoln's reply? "Madam, do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends"? Lincoln addressed a far greater wrong than we face today, Stanton is not enslaving anyone. Yet, he had mercy and magnanimity towards his enemies, his final inaugural address, sums up the spirit we should have towards Stanton. I know I will get the nonsense about Lincoln wasn't a Christian, though the evidence suggests he certainly was. Also, Alexander Campbell was a firm believer in the death penalty, as the essay he wrote said. Lincoln's death probably hurt the South worse than the Civil War. Very rarely in human history does the victor of a war allow the loser to live, and furthermore, to live with dignity. Here, it is important to remember that Stanton has given up their lives for a cause that is a good one, and they have gotten a few minor points wrong, which have greatly offended, irritated, and annoyed many on this site, but let us extend mercy to them, as we wish to obtain mercy, for Jesus truly said, "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy". Those who need not forgiveness, need not forgive, but for those who are imperfect, would it not be wise to address others imperfections, but to allow them to emerge and to remember them no more. Would it not be wise to remember that "To err is human, to forgive is divine"? Should we not remember that God is good to the righteous and the unrighteous? He sends his rain and sun on both equally? Do we become Godlike when we do the same?
I am including this Inaugural by Lincoln, because it is one of the greatest examples in recent human history of a grievous wrong being addressed, while still holding out mercy to the perpetrator. May we profit from the example.
At this second appearing to take the oath of the Presidential office there is less occasion for an extended address than there was at the first. Then a statement somewhat in detail of a course to be pursued seemed fitting and proper. Now, at the expiration of four years, during which public declarations have been constantly called forth on every point and phase of the great contest which still absorbs the attention and engrosses the energies of the nation, little that is new could be presented. The progress of our arms, upon which all else chiefly depends, is as well known to the public as to myself, and it is, I trust, reasonably satisfactory and encouraging to all. With high hope for the future, no prediction in regard to it is ventured.
On the occasion corresponding to this four years ago all thoughts were anxiously directed to an impending civil war. All dreaded it, all sought to avert it. While the inaugural address was being delivered from this place, devoted altogether to saving the Union without war, insurgent agents were in the city seeking to destroy it without war–seeking to dissolve the Union and divide effects by negotiation. Both parties deprecated war, but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish, and the war came.
One-eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war, while the Government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with or even before the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh." If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."
With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.
To Anon 11/7 @9:54 That is a legitimate question. I fear no man, but the Bible is clear to be "wiser than serpents, and harmless as doves". Sometimes messages are better conveyed without the messengers identity being recognized. It wasn't wise for Joseph to immediately identify himself to his brothers, and it allowed God's plan to be perfectly carried out. In the case of Stanton, who is fond of ad hominem (directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining) attacks, it is very wise to reveal one's identity with careful consideration. Stanton firmly believes that if it finds one indiscretion in a person's life, their entire message is totally worthless, nevermind Stanton has their own indiscretions. They see no problem with sanctioning a person who opposes them for behavior they themselves were guilty of at one time. I personally know of one preacher who is faithful, happily married, and a very good example in the church, who committed incest when he was a child. I don't think that makes him one bit less effective as a preacher today, and I think it illustrates God's mercy and grace, but I find it extremely puzzling when you can have this in your midst, but then turn around and tell other people they can't obtain salvation, or they have to bear the effects of their sins for the rest of their lives. Additionally, I personally have always been attracted to women, as I am a man. I never experienced any other attraction. But that didn't stop some sources from labelling me effeminate, because I talk with my hands. First of all, I'm Italian, and that's what we do, second of all, public speakers generally use their entire bodies in conveying a message. Their classification of me is just hilarious now, but they withdrew from me for "sowing seeds of discord". Seems I was causing contention by questioning christians about who thought that and said that about me:) No, dear reader, they were not murmuring, and gossiping about me. On the contrary, it is perfectly Godly to talk about supposed shortcomings about your brother with other christians, when he is not around:) Also, you have to learn the rule, if you tell your teacher information about another christian and inform on them, that is not talebearing, gossipping, or backbiting at all, but if you tell another christian something about a teacher, that is gossiping, murmuring, and talebearing, and abracadabra, you are withdrawn from:) Martin Luther said, "The best way to drive out the devil, if he will not yield to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and flout him, for he cannot bear scorn", and I think this is an effective way to deal with those who refuse to use scripture as their basis.
Beautifully written, Concerned, and I totally agree with your sentiments "The Stanton Churches of Christ is filled with the most amazing people I had ever met. I found I would have died for them, still would to this day. And because I know their dedication, their love for the things of God, and their hatred of what they consider evil I greatly fear speaking negative of them. I look at my life choices and see that I do not quality as one who can throw the first stone.". They are some of the most amazing people I have ever met, and I love every one of them, but love never fails to address truth. I agree that my life choices contain irregularities, to put it mildly, but I believe those who have been forgiven the most, can love the most, and that if Peter denied Christ (which is what every single other sin is, in essence) after walking with him, and then preached 52 days later, why should we doubt this power is available today?
Lastly, my name will definitely be known, in time, I have no compunction in saying it, if it will aid the cause, but if the message is more effective being said anonymously, so be it. There are wicked and evil people who are allied against Stanton. While Stanton has issues which have been clearly delineated, and so do I, which I have taken to the place every christian should, God, there are those who absolutely revel in filth, and have no moral compass whatsoever. There is a difference in a person who does wrong, but strives to overcome, and is penitent, like the Publican in Luke, and the person who delights in doing evil, and strives to do even more. There are those in the second category, and Kevin has diligently ensured their nonsense is not on this site.
R your initials RM?
I, also, don't believe that they are a cult, but that they are handling the truth of God in unrighteousness. There are a lot of great loving people in the church and there are to many church leaders who lack mercy and empathy when upholding the scriptures and dealing with the brethren that are in need of their help and guidance.
Jesus was called, "the Physician" for a reason. The apostles taught and encouraged the brethren to be there for each other for a reason, but it is now being taught that you are being selfish if you look to them in your time of spiritual needs.
Don't forget them in the Valley.
There is a very scriptural and right answer for all of this. God set the order in his kingdom for those who are to lead by example. They are called Elders. They are older Christian men. They are married to one wife. They have believing children. They are given to hospitality. They are not given to filthy money. They are apt to teach. etc. But in the Stanton Churches the congregations are under the judgments of people that certainly do not have those qualifications. God placed the qualifications there for a reason and I believe I can say the Stanton Churches of Christ are a really good example of what happens when you don't obey God in his direction, especially in this matter. Young people have been their judges, women have been their judges, men who were not honorable and whose children were not faithful have been their judges. KS stated they had no need of elders. Now that tells you something doesn't it?
I totally agree with you on your point Concerned. That is why their judgments are so far off continually and their fruit is bad. They violate James 4:11 all of the time also and actually condone it as a way of teaching. "Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?" They do not judge using righteous judgment but tear down brethern with suspicious evil surmising. There is nothing Godly about that.
Can you keep a secret anonymous 11/9 @4:04?
We must be the change we wish to see in the world. http://play.simpletruths.com/movie/the-100-0-principle/.
Personally, I recognize I could be kinder, more caring, and more forbearing with Stanton. It seems to be wise to avoid the mentality of having nothing to do with people who do what we clearly see to be wrong. This is the mentality employed towards us by them, and if we employ it towards them, how are we any better than them?
Having been excommunicated, I suspect my invitations for dinner at my house may not be heeded, but I can honestly say there is no one I have any bitterness or animosity towards. I actually liked giving my time and efforts, and miss the time I was able to spend with them. Whether it was reciprocated means little to me, because Paul said truly, it is better to give than to receive. Our greatest joy is to serve, not to be served. Even the pagans recognized this. The Greek Historian Thucydides said, "We secure our friends not by accepting favors, but by doing them". I agree Concerned, and anonymous 11/10 @12:28.
Because if you can, Anonymous 11/9 @4:04, so can I:)
My prayer today was Lord help me to understand the correct way to deal with the arrogant. The arrogant mind will take any piece of knowledge you give them and exalt themselves over you; the arrogant believe in their own superiority and seek to force other into submission. The Pharisee's were certainly arrogant and the Lord caused me to understand that the example he set was to teach the arrogant but in a way that they would not understand: he spoke to them in parables. When being interrogated by arrogant teachers I tried to refuse to answer their questions but they simply put words into my mouth, or assigned motives to my actions which did not exist, and in so doing miscatergorized my actions as evil; you could not win with these people. God did teach all of us but unless you humble yourself down and ask him for understanding it will never come; and with the arrogant do not tell them the whole story, but leave some out; they will be to proud to ask for help from God in developing an understanding. Let the arrogant believe in their own conclusions do not correct them.
This should define a preacher/teacher of God. let alone a Christian, that there is one who spends most of their time just correcting you and telling you how things are to be vs one who is there to spend their time to help and guide as a brother/sister and child/servant of God.
You usually won't find those who are high minded and/or arrogant spending their time to work with you as equals. Paul said that he did it to gain others.
Don't forget them in the valley.
Just a question for ex members: if this is not the right church then which is? And in Luke 9:50 "those who are for us are not against us." Said by Jesus himself. Is the SCOC for the sake of Christ or not? What are some people's opinions on this verse?
I recommend you go to a mainstream conservative Church of Christ or to a First Christian Church. They both believe in baptism for the remission of sins.
Okay. I will look into both where I live(down south). Thanks for the replies.
FYI, First Christian Church might be a bit liberal on social issues. This is why going off a name is not the ideal, definitely visit and ask questions.
Ohhhhh, you touching some heavey duty ground. We'll see if the x members respond.
I believe that it is the right church, but there are to many leaders holding the hold the truth in unrighteousness. Most of what they say in talks and sermons is correct, but fail in implementing them.
The church's greatest stumbling block is indifference and the problem with indifference is that those who have it don't see it because of their indifference.
In a talk, TC touched on it when he was conferring with his wife over doing something for somebody and he stated that he isn't wired that way and it doesn't come to him to reach out to those in need.
I have my own library of a lot of the church talks from throughout the brotherhood, and I have heard in a lot of talks exhortation on things that aren't practiced among a lot of the brethren and when you try to say something they don't see it and you become the one with the problem.
We study and read about it in the bible, hear it taught, but have problems in exercising it.
1. Deleted some profanity, please send me links to specifics and I'll delete others.
2. Reminder: Keep it classy and conversational, people, or I'll have to shut comments down. I want to provide a forum for intelligent conversation, not a gutter to throw mud around.
3. Ronnie: Asking "If Stanton isn't the right church, which one is?" is the wrong question and you'll get the wrong answer every time, because there is no perfect church. That is the point. Even the churches in Revelation within the lifespan of the apostles had strayed. If Stanton truly had been on the right track by dividing from mainline CoCs (which they weren't, but go with me here), they would be beset by the same problems as the churches described in Revelation: human error.
A better question is "Where can I worship and grow in knowledge and grace and love and generosity and all the other fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5?"
The answer to that question, Kevin, is the Stanton Churches of Christ. They are straight shooters that is why they are hated.
If there are no perfect churches due to the flesh being unable to keep God's law then what about superbabes and superteachers who demand perfection of others while at the same time expecting you to show mercy to them for their imperfections? Does this mean then that a righteous christian is one who shows mercy, and not one who demands perfection? What about all those who are better than me because they knew Merie, are they then not really better than me? You have opened a can of worms Mr. Kevin. If I am not superior to others then how can I get away with all my cruelty toward weaker Christians and children, who are so inferior to me? This means that I would have to work on my own weakness rather than pointing the finger of blame at others and doing nothing about my own sins. Is the free ride for us self righteous hypocrites really over?
Who are you?
I feel really depressed. If the gospel is good news why do I feel like God hates me and I'll never get to heaven. I've been told my whole life I'm going to hell. I'm starting to believe it.
Sin and Satan is the only force that can make you feel like that, simply stated. Romans 8:38- For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I believe this.
Well only 1,000 people going to heaven and 7 billion going to hell out of this generation IS depressing.
If you actually believe that it is "depressing news" not "good news."
@ anonymous 12:08am are you a child of the church?
If you truly believe that you are going to hell rather than heaven and you are going to church then perhaps your teacher/preacher is the problem. Doom and gloom was all I heard in my time in the church seldom was a good word heard. There is a good side to God you have simply not been told about it. The negative seems so much more important than the positive but in truth they are both equally important in life; man sins everyday and God forgives everyday as well. Maybe sin is the problem, and man sins because of unbelief. Do you really believe the warnings Solomon give in proverbs against immoral behavior? In proverbs one he warns of how evil will come to recruit you, do you eschew (reject), their enticing recruitment pitch? Do you reject the flirt mentioned in Proverbs 2? Not only is immoral behavior wrong, so is association with immoral people. Give yourself hope God has great wisdom for those that believe.
The good side of God can be seen in Provrebs 31:10-31. The descriptions given for a virtuous women also match the behavior of a virtous God. :10 the virtuous woman is priceless, the virtuous God is also priceless, :11 you can trust the virtuous woman and you can trust the virtuous God; the virtuous woman does good and not evil all of her life, the virtuous God does us good and not evil all the days of are lives, :12 the virtuous woman seeks out the needful things for her family the virtuous God seek out the needful things for his people. Every good thing you can say about a virtuous woman you can also say about our virtuous God. If you want to see a glimpse of God then go look at a virtuous woman.
One of the most difficult things to understand about Satan is that sometimes he tells the truth. John 8:44 tells us that Satan is the father of lies, but that does not mean he doesn't tell the truth sometimes. In Genesis 3:4 Satan told Eve that thous shalt not surely die, and after eating the fruit they did not die carnally, so Satan did tell Eve the truth he just left out the spiritual half. In the SCOC you are told the truth and given scriptures out of the bible to prove what they are saying but once a false teacher gains your confidence and you trust him or her then the lies start. After I was baptized I believed everything my teacher said and he started teaching that "we know that christians don't sleep in the daytime" this was taught when I worked an early am shift and needed a nap in the afternoon. No scripture was give, just "we know" as if it was common knowledge; it was a lie. If you do your due diligence as a Christian as taught in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 and prove all the teaching the lies become readily apparent. We use the Bible and only the bible, then you here sermons on Merie said, Alexander Campbell said, the Lexicon says, etc. and the lesson are not taken out of the bible but out of other books, another lie. Once you discover a lie and confront your teacher you will be told that you have no humility, you do not reprove your teacher no matter how wrong they are; this is why no one would stand up to the false teaching of withdrawal for a corrupt mind, tie your children down, christian are not emotional people, (all false teachings.) Reproof goes down and not up in the church, if someone older in the faith does something wrong (even worthy of withdrawal) you are not to say anything for God will show then their error, (another false teaching.) So yes you have been taught the truth, but not the whole truth.
Your first exegesis of the scripture in Gen 3:4 makes God the liar. God said 'thou shalt surely die'. They were created to never die. When they ate of the fruit death was put within their members.
There was never a teaching, ever, that Christians didn't sleep in the day. If that was what you were taught then you can rest your heart in the correction of this. The Stanton churches would never teach something so ridiculous.
And believe me teachers and preachers are withdrawn from in record numbers.
To Anon on Feb 25 at 11:07 AM: Yes, teachers and preachers are withdrawn from, but usually after they have done much damage! AND, it's taught that tho those teachers/preachers did something worthy of withdrawal, they ARE STILL teachers. This was taught to us by GP in our congregation after our teachers were withdrawn from.
Instead of the teachers/preacher were withdrawn from, they weren't rebuked. Instead, our congregation was. We were told how carnal we were, and that what those withdrawn from teachers/preachers said about us all were true! And when other teachers and another preacher came, they kept up the same chorus. Made us wonder why they even bothered to come and "save" the congregation since they were so sure we were so worthless and carnal.
Most of the time, if teachers are corrected, its done quietly. Not in the same way that those who aren't teachers are corrected. One teacher in our congregation was very oppressive to another Christian-we would never have known that the teacher had been "corrected" except that he made a confession for being oppressive. That was it, he was never sat down or rebuked publically!
And yes, there was a lot of teaching that Christians don't nap during the day. It was put out that you are very carnal if you took a nap. That wasn't the only ridiculous teaching by the Stanton Group. Perhaps you just haven't been around long enough.
To Anon Feb 25 at 11:07 AM: You might want to read "2 Opinions Chapter 3". It's on the right had side of this blog, just click on the link. There is a long list of ridiculous things that the Stanton Group teachers as law. And there is no scriptural basis for those laws, just someone's opinion. If you don't agree with these "laws" you are then considered to be carnal, which is a bad thing to be when in the Stanton group. To be 'carnal' means you are of the lowest of the lows!
And if you don't believe there are consequences for disobeying these "laws", I dare you to try disobeying a few. You will see what I mean.
Of course the consequences of following those bizarre rules are:
Broken Marriages, Broken Families, Abandonment, Child Neglect, Uneducated women and daughters,Sex-less marriage, Divorce, Financial Disaster, Homelessness, Anger, Disillusionment, Suicide, Child abuse, Mind Control and Insanity.
You get to decide though. Use your brain and all your senses if they have not already dulled your mind to their ways.
THEY FLAT OUT LIE TO YOU AND DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE DAMAGE THEY DO. You won't find GOD there!
Oh and that napping thing. During my ex-wife's 25+ years in COC she has spent many an afternoon on the couch with her head tilted and drool running down her cheek. Not a prayer pose
Satan saying "thou shalt not surely die" was implying God had lied to Adam and Eve. What scripture do you get that death was put into their members and that they were meant to live forever? Please prove your assertions by scripture. Dominick was the one teaching that Christians don't sleep in the daytime, and Dominick also taught that the righteous never break bones (Ps 34:20) so he would never have to worry about himself breaking a bone and when the Volkswagon Mechanic from Oxnard got his finger stuck and broke in Dominick garage door I told him you aren't righteous and he told me that I was wrong (imagine that.)
When Adam and his wife Eve were created by God there was no sin in the world. Thus there was no death. Romans 5:12-21 Death by sin. They were told the truth by God how to keep the garden as it was created to be, free from sin and free from death. When they believed Satan's lie they transgressed, committed sin, and death entered the world. Death has passed to all men because all have sinned.
This is why we needed someone to come and save us by shedding his blood for our sins.
"Every time he answers like this!" says DS with derision. DS gave me something that I did not realize: his short temper. In Proverbs 22:24-25 Solomon give a very serious warning "Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go: lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul." A short temper will destroy every relationship you have; it will destroy your marriage, it will destroy your relationship with your children, it will destroy your relationship with coworkers, and with the members of your church. Every chance I get to lampoon DS I take, with the hope that others will not take him seriously. After DS left Phoenix all the members, both male and female, developed a short temper just like him, and several marriages and many other relationships were destroyed. You simply cannot trust a person with a short temper and without trust no relationship can survive. If you are in the same congregation as DS you need to take Solomon's warning seriously and get away from him before you too adopt his short temper, and destroy your own life.
I feel your pain. PM me so we can hook up and share experiences. You are where?
Hey Brad you can email me at fellowhelper2015@gmail.com I don't know what PM is; not that computer saavy.
The three ways a human thinks are: #1 pride(arrogance) #2 lust(flesh), and #3 the conscience(soul). When a person walks after their pride they develop a superiority complex and treat themselves good and treat others badly. The extreme of pride is the sociopath, a person that has no conscience, and no feelings. A sociopath, because they have no conscience are capable of anything and are only limited by their intelligence. A sociopath is self centered and self serving in everything they do. Cynicism is a virtue when dealing with a sociopath, because they can never be trusted. Words can lie, but fruits never do, is simply not true because the sociopath is an excellent actor and can put on a great performance to deceive others. My first teacher in the church was a sociopath. I looked for the fruits of the conscience, shame, guilt, remorse, admission of wrongdoing, humility, but never saw any indication of a conscience. He worshipped the evangelist in S.V. like a catholic worships the Pope. Every time the evangelist was around he would make the evangelist the center of attention and act like a star struck teenager. This behavior served to deceive the evangelist into thinking the sociopath was a good person. Once back in the home congregation and out of sight of the evangelist his personality would change from Dr. Jekel to Mr. Hide and he would become very dominating, even oppressive and cruel. The evangelist would simply not believe any report of this behavior, having been deceive about the true nature of this teacher. The cult of authority was enforced, that is that the leader is infallible. An infallible leader can never be corrected, can never be reproved, and can never be told no. The simply are never wrong. To correct, reprove, or say no is to tell them they are wrong and this destroys the superiority complex on which they live and feed. Not being able to say no we were run to death by this teacher. When a holiday would fall on a Monday I would attend worship on Sunday and keep the whole Lord's day then drive six to eight hours to the meeting in LA area, get maybe an hour or two sleep then attend the meeting, then drive six to eight hour back get and hour or two sleep, then work a ten hour shift and then go to Tuesday night bible study. Three days straight on two to four hours sleep. They only way I could do this was caffeine in large dosages, however this caused a health problem: high blood pressure. I was constantly running to keep this sociopath teacher happy and was constantly tired and fell asleep in many place and in Bible classes too. I was chastized for sleeping in class but couldn't help it, being tired all the time. Because the sociopath does not feel guilt he saw nothing wrong with his overbearing demand, we were simply selfish or lazy. The worst thing about it is that he is not the only sociopath in the church there are many other to beware of.
When a man says "I am behind on my child support" what that means is the estranged wife and children went hungry that week, or for however long the child support has not been paid. In the Bible the women are to be stay at home moms, aka virtuous women. The virtuous women depend on the child support to feed their children and when the don't receive it they go without. How does the SCOC deal with men who fail to support their children? Well if your in DS's congregation he will make you a preacher. DS's stated in a public talk that he loved the state of California because he could work as a landscaper and make thousands of dollars each month but because he worked less than twenty five hours a week he qualified for full welfare benefits too! This became the goal of many self employed men in Phoenix: work less than five hours a day a live on welfare. These irresponsible (aka lazy) men would never be able to support themselves, much less a family. These lazy men would never become the deacons mentioned in Acts 6. These men were never able to supply the wants of the saints, but they could preach! What a great example to follow! If you are a stay at home mom, aka virtuous woman and you are not getting your child support each and every week you need to speak up right away or you will go hungry.
"How does he know that?" says DS with astonishment. One of the first problems to surface from the abundance of lazy men was during the fellowship meal on Sundays. After serving the men there was not enough food left to feed all the woman and children at the fellowship.(the lazy men did not have any money to buy food to bring to the fellowship) What was the solution given by DS? Did he instruct the men to work more than his 25 hour a week standard to be able to give the women more money to have more food available at the fellowship? or to start buying something to bring themselves and stop showing up empty handed week after week? No he put out teaching that the men were eating to much at the fellowships and being gluttons. What was our reaction to his teaching? We men who worked and had money on the surface obeyed but in reality we just stopped off at jack in the box on the way to fellowship or if the wife and kids were with us we went straight to the fellowship the asked if anybody needed anything from the store and after dropping the wife and kids off ran to jack in the box then to the store and back to the fellowship. The implied teaching was: when men eat at the Sunday fellowship the children go hungry. I was very careful to eat only small portions and only one serving during this time period. I went to SV to attend a wedding there and had lunch with the evangelist and his wife. He was encouraging me to eat more than my one serving and I told him I was full. How could I tell him the truth that his #1 fan was a lazy man and encouraged the other men to be lazy and this resulted in a shortage of food at fellowships? Nope not me. When I returned to Phoenix I was immediately interrogated by DS as to why I did not eat much with the evangelist and his wife, not that hungry I said. When you see the men jumping at the chance to go to the store instead of fellowship it might be because they are hungry and are sneaking a meal before the fellowship meal.
This ranting makes absolutely no sense and is totally ridiculous. Kevin, I believe the usefulness of this blog has hit bottom and is no longer constructive. This last post is a very good example.
To Anon Feb 28 at 8:14 PM: You must not have been around for very long. In the congregation where I was at, it was the same thing! All of the men aspired to follow the example of the teacher/preacher, he only worked a half day (mowing lawns) and was getting welfare and food stamps too. If he increased his work hours (he was self employed) then he would lose some of the welfare and food stamps.
We also had problems with not enough food at fellowships! Even though I was single and had no children, I worked a full time job. So I was expected to bring more food! It was put out as my responsibility to do so, to help out my brethren who were in need! Yet the ones with food stamps were buying lots of meat and getting free food (called "commodities") and I worked and received none of those things!
I was also talked to because I would bring an extra chicken breast for myself (I don't like dark meat) as well as a large box of chicken for fellowship. This to me was ridiculous! I was bringing a lot of food to fellowship (not just chicken) and would bring an EXTRA piece for me, and I was told I was being selfish and greedy!
Another person was on a special diet for health reasons. He would bring food to contribute for fellowship, but would pack his own lunch for himself. He was rebuked for being selfish and too picky.
I guess it depends on which congregation you belong to!
I guess.
The weekly cry baby report. Get along in your life. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad that your were prosecuted for your rightiousness. Isn't that enuff from your god or do you want more than what god can offer.
People are missing the point. When somebody brings up a point of how there was mistreatment in their congregation, the answer is not to call them a cry baby and to move on.
Look at it in this aspect, that there are congregations who have leaders that ARE mistreating treating it's members. Look at the fact that the people who you are looking up to are of a mind to mistreat others. How can the members sit in class and listen to them for edification, instruction, and correction in the gospel of Christ like this?
This goes beyond, "I was mistreated" and goes straight to a leader who is responsible and will be held responsible, by God, for their actions towards the people of God.
On top of this, in many cases, they expect us to do as they do and/or support them in their actions. What kind of Christians are we if we don't do and/or say anything about this injustice? Take the time and try to understand how God looks at this?
Matthew 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
When it comes to the last half of that scripture, nobody gives attention to it. People are more invested in the victim to just get over it.
I had to come to the conclusion that I wouldn't get good teaching, sermons, guidance, or instruction for leaders who treated people the way that they do. Also, imagine trying to fellowship with people who look down on you for not giving in. It is like living in withdrawl without the being withdrawn from People will actually ignore you or give you very little conversation.
In my congregation they sit the little children on a blanket to feed them during Sunday fellowships and they are feed first. The last two times I was there they feed all of the kids but mine. I had to get up and do it and I am physically disabled.
God will judge those who mistreat other people and people need to stand up and stop this type of treatment, but nobody will know about it unless somebody says something.
Love you Brad. I share the experience in my home congregation to see if other had the same situation or not. The irresponsible (lazy) men started a bad example which quickly spread through out the church. Once the women saw that the men were allowed to be lazy they too started becoming lazy. It was brought up that because it was so hot during the summer that the women did not want to turn on the ovens to cook food for the sunday fellowship with all the people in the home and the oven it was just to hot. So it was brought up and agreed that all food was either crock pot or microwave, but when winter came it remained the same heat and serve menu. The next step in laziness was people stopped studying and stopped sharing in class. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. I am really impressed at your lack of substance in your comment maybe your a lazy man yourself?
Sin can be equated with a tree: it has a beginning, a middle, and an end. I have discussed the tree of child abuse here but have not show the fruit, that is the final product of sin. Hazel Capell was the woman who taught to tie your children down, which was done not only at home but during the sunday's fellowships as well. 100% of serial killers were abused as children by one or both parents. Hazel was married to a non member who was in the Navy. Hazel's son grew up to commit murder; this is the final fruit of the tree known as child abuse. It is worse when it is not the parent doing the abuse but rather a church member. Being raise catholic I saw that when a priest was caught abusing children he was simply moved to another parish and not dealt any punishment at all. Being a SCOC member I saw men who openly talked about abusing their children moved to other congregation and not punished at all, an appearance of evil easily seen by those of us raised in the catholic religion. I also saw in the catholic religion the mother superior beat the students in catholic school with a wooden yardstick, and in the SCOC I saw mother Marylin beat children with a wooden dowel, an appearance of evil again. The tree of sin needs to be examined from root to fruit and cut off as soon as possible. Every year the "one true church" becomes more and more like the Catholics. I have started to talk about the tree of laziness and its poison fruit. How does the SCOC differ from any other religion with it sin and hypocrisy? It's arrogance and control of it's members match the arrogance and control of any other self destructive organization. People will follow the example set by their leaders, this is called modeling. When the leader is corrupt so will also be the followers. If the church leader is lazy, so will all the followers become lazy also. If the leader condon's and hides abuse so to will all the followers. I will start to talk about the next tree soon and that is the tree of discord and what I have seen God to to those who sow discord.
You wrote all of this before. Enough already.
Personification is one of the methods God uses to teach us is the scriptures. Personification is giving animals and plants human characteristics. Is it right to compare humans to animals and plants? Christ is personified as the lamb of God. What kind of animals would you associate with your church leaders, or what animal behaviors do they exhibit? For me it is simple; my fist teacher was a roaring lion, you could hear him coming a mile away and he was usually angry and always loud. My second teacher was much more subtle, he was a snake. My first teacher taught us to treat each other not as equals and worthy of respect but rather that he was superior and everyone else in the congregation was inferior to him; and this pattern was learned by all the righteous brethren. The second teacher, would also treat all other members of the congregation as inferiors and would sow seeds of discord and outright discord. My first teacher demanded from day one that he get the last word in the conversation, you could speak but he being superior would get the last word. My second teacher would demand not only the last word but the first, middle and last word, you were expected to remain silent and give him the preeminence. I was withdrawn from at one point and though could have come out of withdrawal at six month's I stayed in withdrawal for two years. Why? Because in withdrawal I was safe from the Christians who had become predators. Finally my teacher said I had to make my confession and so I did, on a Sunday morning. There was no welcome back from withdrawal fellowship as had been hosted in times past, strange it seemed. Wednesday I went out on the personal work for the fist time in over two years and with an up and coming preacher and his new wife from Prescott me and my wife rode in his car. While in his car he started to sow discord telling me right to my face how many things he found wrong with me, yup trash talking me in front of our wives. He was sent out to Oxnard after two sermons and two nonmember classes and not as a sharing preacher but as a teaching preacher. After a year or so he returned to Phoenix and he didn't sow discord anymore because he didn't hardly talk anymore. He told me what happened how he was constantly treating his wife as an inferior telling her to shut up and be quiet so he could hear the conversation and make his judgements. Finally, his wife having enough, said with tears in her eyes "I am a Christian too!" This broke his heart and ended his days as a sower of discord. I was three days back from withdrawal when he started unloading years of grudges against me. When you esteem withdrawal a better place than full fellowship you are in a very wicked church. After I departed the church we saw on the evening news WP's son (about ten years old at that time) being interviewed as to why someone would dump a body by his house, and he said he did not know why this had happened. Understanding symbolism I saw God was saying that this congregation is dead, and due to the discord of WP. There are still candles in Phoenix but they are not lit with the flame of love, and there is no candle stick left to support them. I never bowed down to WP and when they could not force me into subjection they went after my children. They proved themselves superior to my by abusing my young children. This is the ways of the arrogant in Phoenix, discord and child abuse. And for all you arrogant gainsayers that refuse to acknowledge Christ as Lord and exalt yourselves as god, I will continue to preach about your evils until the Lord returns. Amen
I see it's time to leave this blog. It is clear that it no longer serves it's purpose but has now fallen into the hands of those with the root of bitterness.
We need all of the believing to start their own blogs, it is really not that difficult and you would be spreading the word about Christ. Please consider it.
The goodness of God can be seen in Proverbs 1:10-19 where Solomon teaches an antirecruitment lesson. The group of evil doers were seeking others to join their group of evildoers and made many promises of how great joining and sharing in their group would be, but Solomon refutes everyone of their promises by showing the reality of their lifestyle. Right now I have Marine Corp recruiters coming after my teenage daughter with promises of education, travel, and good pay. I am so far successful in refuting all their promises as false by showing how many Marines have been senselessly killed by bad leadership. No child of mine is going to join the Marine Corp if I have anything to say about it. Praise God for his wisdom.
Are you saying the United States Marine Corps are Evil Doers? SHAME on you They are the reason you can voice any opinion at all in this free country.
You are someone living in fear of the fools of this cult, yet you fear advancing your daughter's life skills in a worthy organization. If she has a good brain in her head, she will advance in self esteem and education without the corrupting influence of the bizarre COC. Do not place fear of death in her young head. The evil doers are in the SCOC not the USMC. I did 4 years in the US Navy before a 30 year FAA career. Your resistance sounds selfish and not very forward thinking. Your daughter must have her own life.
What would you have her do? Work for the COC and stop her education as the COC would have you do?
You confuse and twist scripture with your own misconceptions of reality, just like the members of the COC do. Praise the USMC and the USA
or go somewhere else to preach your beliefs. Try praying in the Middle East like your mentor did 2000 years ago. It didn't seem to help things in that region of the world. Maybe you can go help out there today. Those who died Died for YOU.
Man! Ol man KF is fired up again.
I'm with Fred.
Does the church STILL have any unbiblical teachings or are they all in the past? Are any of the members really saved?
Yes, it does. Read any of the things in my story and you will see a lot of unscriptural teaching. When the church tells you that you are in sin for something that is not a written law then they have made it a law themselves.
I twas taught in my congregation that if you did not allow any Christian to come to your home anytime of the day on any day without notice that this is a sin.
It is taught that if you have an infirmary that cause you to miss some classes that you are the one that is supposed to reach out to your brethren and not your brethren reach out to those sick or in need. It is a sin to look for it even though we are told to bear one another's burdens.
There are others beside these.
here we go again. ad nausiam
A question was asked and then answered, nothing more. If you don't like reading things, like this, which is why this blog was started, then why read it? You're wasting your time.
I have to agree with Anonymous 748. We have read your complaints so many times we think you should do something about it. If you can't then you have to accept it and move on. Which you have not done.
*sigh*
that's the most interesting and profound thing of all your posts. Please keep it up.
Wow, anonymous at 8:06am what a loving and Christian thing to say.
In Proverbs 2:12-15 Solomon tells us that wisdom will keep us from the evil man with a froward mouth. Froward is defined as difficult to deal with; contrary and an example of this is Judas in John 12:1-8 when he criticized the good work of Mary. Another example of the froward that is, the contrary mouth can be seen with the Pharisees in Mathew 9:34 when Christ did a miracle and they had to show their superiority by criticizing his good works. You can read what God thinks of the froward mouth in Proverb 8:13. When you read comments like "crybaby", ad nasuem, and move on realize it just evil people trying to show their superiority by being contrary. A righteous person would show compassion to a person with a handicap not criticism.
This is why certain problems exist in the church, there are people, like this, that either refuse to see the problem, or don't care, so instead of facing and fixing the problem they make the victims out to be complainers.
There are a lot people in the church who lack empathy and they can't see it because of their indifference, just like poster anonymous at 8:06am. So, when see/hear of brethren who are in need they to indifferent to help and lack empathy when they are told that we are required through scripture to be there for them.
1 Thessalonians 3:4-5 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know. For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain
Look at Paul's love and concern for these people. He wasn't even at that congregation, at the time, and he could not forbear not knowing about them. Have we ever done that or do we just go about our own business and if anybody says anything contrary to our oblivious nature we call them complainers?
As long as people look at other people with indifference and no empathy they we always see complainers and have this attitude. Jesus never wanted it that way.
Philippians 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
If you aren't exercising this then you will be judged by God.
My point wasn't to add to what I have already said, but answer the question that was posed. People who like to keep their heads in the sand will always get annoyed at things they chose not to do.
Proverbs 12:27 talks about neglect; the slothful man roasteth not that which he took in hunting. A person goes to all the trouble of hunting game and then after the kill neglects the animal. It is a lot of work to field dress an animal but if it is not done quickly then bacteria sets in and ruins the meat and hide. God does not look favorably upon the neglectful. In Proverbs 24:11-12 it tells us that God considers those who neglect to help others in their time of need and he will repay the neglectful with a curse. In Hebrews 2:3 it talks about the curses that come upon those who neglect spiritual matters as well. Keeping God's commandments requires diligence on our part, and study of his word is a commandment and those who neglect their studies bring curses upon themselves. How can you tell if a person is not keeping the commandment to study his word? Simple: they post only complaints and criticisms of others and do not mention any scriptural base for their assertions. When you study you develop knowledge and understanding and are able to reason out of the scriptures, when you don't study you only speak out of pride and seek to exalt yourself above others: you are arrogant. Proverbs 8:13 tells us God hates the arrogant, and so if you only have complaints keep it to yourself and start doing one of the first commandments: study.
Well done Anon on March 19 at 7:22 AM, except for one thing. You gave scriptures to support what you are saying, UNTIL you got to the part "How can you if a person is not keeping the commandment to study his word?"
Then you failed to give any scriptural support for your belief that those who post "only complaints and criticisms of others and do not mention any scriptural base for their assertions" are not studying.
Perhaps you could share with us the scriptures that say those who share their bad experiences in life are not studying?
Thank you.
What commandments are you referring to concerning study?
A woman appeals to a man with her femininity. A feminine and Godly woman obeys her husband. She is silent in the church, the only exceptions being asking prayers, singing, and teaching children’s classes or ladies’ classes, both supervised carefully by the men.
A man who serves God, learns history and the Bible, and who is a hard worker will have a hard time getting along with a woman who refuses to assume the feminine role God gave her. A man typically forms relationships based on having a mission and warfare, which Christianity is essentially both. But, he will have difficulty carrying out his mission and effectively opposing evil when the woman is out of her sphere and interfering with his duties. Because of Merie’s bad example, every woman in Stanton has been taught to speak in the churches, which is out of order.
The women effectively choose the preachers in Stanton. It’s extremely rare in the Bible that a woman chooses a leader. Deborah is one of the rare examples, and that was during a national emergency.
What happens when women run the church is unity and group consensus become important, and the unpopular truth not only is deemphasized, but it becomes dangerous to tell it. You’ll hear things like “But no one in the church believes that,” as if that settles issues. I’ve heard that dozens of times, and it turns out the ideas that “no one in the church believed” were entirely scriptural.
Male initiative is discouraged. Men learn very quickly that if they study and learn truths that teachers don’t agree with, they will be punished, so men often settle for a state of lassitude. Why exert yourself and study hard when your opinions are dismissed and your past brought up in an attempt to make you conform to the opinions that women agree with?
One exchange happened where a man, a widower, brought up a topic for consideration. He doesn’t share often, but he has a bright mind, is inquisitive, and has been righteous for 30+ years. There was a brief exchange with a married woman, whose husband is a preacher, over the topic the man suggested. Then, the woman was allowed to charmingly and laughingly dismiss the man’s idea as not something we need to go into right now. This is what happens when women are allowed to speak in churches. They will pick their favorites, which rarely are selected according to God’s criteria, and the church will suffer.
In another instance, I stated a few controversial opinions in a conversation with a Christian woman and her nonmember husband. My opinions were based on hundreds of hours of careful research. I was approached the following Sunday by the Christian, who advised me she had wanted to report to the Preacher but decided to go to me instead. She questioned what I said, not as if she wanted to understand it further, but as if I shouldn’t have said it. In particular, she was disturbed that I had said wives need to obey their husbands and women should have as many children as possible. I was utterly shocked and appalled. This was a woman in Stanton for 40+ years. If she didn’t understand wives are to obey their husbands and are to bear children, how in the world are the younger women going to be taught this? I managed to negotiate the emotional minefield diplomatically and resolved it peacefully, but I was deeply depressed that evening.
At fellowships, I deliberately avoided speaking with women most of the time, as I preferred avoiding the contention that commonly occurs with women who will question and often denigrate and reject men’s carefully researched opinions.
What is the point of studying when women in the church will frequently brawl with you when your ideas are submitted to the church? When women speak in the church, church order, growth, and overall stability are all impaired.
Article on my website, 1/30/24, a young wife and mother does an 8 part serious on submitting to her husband. I’ve never heard any woman in Stanton discuss the topic so beautifully. As for the women who naturally respond, “Well, if you’re a righteous man, then a woman will want to submit to you,” that’s nonsense, because since I’ve never seen a woman in submission to her husband in Stanton, that must mean all men in Stanton are unrighteous, which is perfectly absurd.
Only mature women can obey their husbands and stay silent in the churches.
Article on my website, 1/30/24
Kind of shocking when immoral men like Andrew Tate acknowledge Biblical truths more than most churches.
“Population bomb” was written by the Jew Paul Ehrlichman in 1968, because Jews need to regulate fertility for them to be able to rule the people. They learned from Pharaoh’s strategy against the Jews in Exodus.
Well, overpopulation is a myth, the evidence is in an article on my website, 2/1/24
“Earth can sustain trillions or even a quadrillion people”
Israeli Soldier speaks his truth about what happened October 7th.
Ten minute video on my website, 2/2/24
On April 25th, 1995, a 75 year old Wehrmacht Veteran, Reinhold Elstner, walked up the steps to the Feldherrnhalle, Germany’s Hall of Heroes, doused himself with a flammable liquid, and set himself on fire. Despite the brave attempts of bystanders, he perished.
He left this letter behind.
“Fifty years of unrelenting smear campaigns and demonization of an entire people are enough.
Fifty years of incessant insults hurled at German war veterans are enough.
At the age of 75, not much is left for me to do, but perhaps through my act of self-immolation, I can give a clarion call and set one visible example of reflection.
If even one single German wakes up and finds his way back to the truth, my self-sacrifice will not have been in vain.”
Article on my website 2/2/24
How You Can Avoid Procrastination & Get Things Done
The trick is having your task already laid out before you so that when you pick it up again you know exactly what you are doing and there is nothing stopping you from proceeding. Getting started is the hardest part because it is the overcoming of inertia.
If the project is learning, you must know clearly what you will be studying and for how long. Otherwise, there is resistance from inertia because getting started what is not already rolling takes effort that is not allocated because we have too many concerns and not enough willpower or mental energy.
And if you can’t even set that up, eliminate something else for a short time (like knocking out something easy on your to do list, or focusing on a major achievement to get it off your plate), and it frees up the willpower to get the new thing started.
With this extra burst of willpower, strategically work on clearly planning out your whole path from start to finish at the very beginning with that burst of energy, so that each day you come back to it, you don’t have to muster the will to proceed or get started again.
We have finite willpower, so we cannot rely on willpower to keep us productive. We have to rely on systems and be cognizant of willpower drain.
If you find yourself procrastinating, a 5-minute nap has been proven to restore a little willpower, but you might find yourself sleeping until the next day since you may be very behind on sleep, so that’s not always a solution. Moreover, a spoonful of honey may be just what you need to recover some willpower to jumpstart your progress – use it strategically.
One of the main reasons this is so hard is because Man was not meant to be alone. If you have a well-serving wife and perhaps even household servants (difficult in western culture due to minimum wage laws) to set your path ahead, then it is much easier.
When you don’t have to manage cooking, household management, shopping, etc, then you can focus on your work. One person has to do that. The wife is better suited because the husband is better suited doing the work to bring income to the family.
Unfortunately, western women are not taught that doing household management is just as important for bringing in money to the family as the man’s going to work and bringing in the money. Western women are brainwashed to think these things are useless and meaningless, but it’s a lie. In the end, western women end up having to do all the same household work, cooking, and shopping, PLUS going to work, and come home alone, all to escape doing half of it, which they don’t even escape! The irony is hilarious.
But when you are alone at work or study and need to get started, the best course of action is as above: planning ahead, and putting it in front of you so that it takes no willpower to get started the next day.
And if you happen to be unmarried or with an unsupportive spouse, you can’t fix a damaged western woman overnight but in the meantime you can proceed as above to achieve productivity even with the absence of your partner or a supportive partner. While it isn’t as ideal as a supportive partner, it is a way to forge ahead. And as soon as possible, you can hire assistants to fill the assistant void that the wife has failed to provide.
Revive Truth on Gab
How Jews steal from you and you don’t even know it.
Talmudic Jew puppets like Albert Pike have long said the Jews want three World Wars.
Well, the Jews have America attempting to start World War 3, America against Russia, China, and Iran. It won’t end well for America if we let them.
Here is the excerpt from Freemason Albert Pike in a letter to Guiseppe Mazzini
The Jews are using America to fight Israel’s wars again.
“The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the “agentur” (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions.”
“The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm.”
“The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the “agentur” of the “Illuminati” between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other.
Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion… We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil.
Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view.
This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.”
“Color, Communism, and Common sense”
A book by former Black Communist Manning Johnson
On my website 2/4/24
Darkness descends, the Bolshevik Revolution. A documentary by Asha Logos
On my website, 2/4/24
On Bitchute, which doesn’t censor.
Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, radio, newspapers, television, movies, schools, and television all censor Jewish criticism.