In the Stanton sect, the term “Off Church” has only one meaning: Churches of Christ that do not follow Merie’s teachings. Who declared the Churches of Christ to be “Off Churches”? Merie, and only Merie Weiss. No one else has had the authority to declare a church “off.”
Years ago, an early follower of Merie, disappointed by Stanton’s drift away from some of Merie’s core teachings, spoke out against current leaders (just as Merie did against the leadership in her day). She was rebuked, and when she stood her ground (as Merie did), she was “marked and avoided” (an invention of current leaders supposedly harsher than “withdrawal”). Guess what? This disciple of Merie then started her own sect, declaring Stanton to be the Off Church, and her new sect to be the new One True Church. Like “mother,” like “daughter.”
So I ask you, who is the real Off Church? Is it the original Churches of Christ Merie attended and was baptized into? They had their faults, as we all do. Or was it Stanton, or maybe the newer breakaway sect? Who’s the Off Church? How about both of these sects? They are both “off” by intentionally setting out to cause division, then actually accomplishing it by dividing from their previous fellowship. So I say “a pox on both their houses.” Both were wrong. Both divided brothers and sisters from one another.
For new readers of this blog, I’ve explained and documented clearly the history of Merie’s withdrawal by the conservative Churches of Christ back in 1958. She may have been withdrawn from up to three times, and did not come back from at least one withdrawal, maybe more of them. But her 1958 withdrawal by the East San Diego Church of Christ for “sowing discord and causing division” is one I’ve been able to document with a photocopy of the letter of withdrawal. A letter of withdrawal is something the mainline churches provide, but Stanton prefers not to leave a paper trail—it’s easier to rewrite or completely hide its history that way.
We know that Merie did not come back from this withdrawal. To her, her “rightness” in her own eyes justified her defiance of the withdrawal. But for those of you still in Stanton, does this sound a little bit hypocritical? I thought someone withdrawn from unjustly should keep quiet until church leaders reached the conclusion that the withdrawal was unjust. Why the double standard for your founder?
Merie declared that the mainline churches had “lost the candlestick,” in the early 1970’s. This means the church that withdrew from her in 1958, by her own teaching, was the Lord’s church. She should have honored that withdrawal without “murmuring” about her teachers and preachers. Merie, a murmurer? Yes, there’s no way to plow around this stump, Stanton. Using your own definition and rules regarding murmuring and withdrawal, Merie was a withdrawn from murmurer when she started the Stanton churches.
Merie justified her behavior by saying the original churches had “lost the candlestick.” How could she know this without miraculous revelation? Yet we’re supposed to just follow a fallible woman’s teachings by faith, without questioning them, because she was so much older and wiser than the rest of us. Really? The Bible says to check everything against the scriptures, like the Bereans, and if someone is claiming to have special knowledge that isn’t spelled out in the Bible, well—you’ll forgive me if I’m not that trusting. I choose to accept the Bible alone as my authority.
The facts are clear. The real Off Church was the one started by Merie. Are there sincere but mistaken believers in their fold? Very likely. But anyone who has come to the conclusion that Stanton is built upon a house of cards, Biblically, and continues to support and defend it, is doing wrong. If you know to do good and don’t do it, it is sin, right?
So express your doubts about Merie’s leadership, and the unbiblical birth of Stanton. You can even question the veracity of this blog, as well, right here on these pages. I welcome it, because I know that truth doesn’t need to be afraid of a lie. But for your own sake, question your teachers and evangelists with boldness, like the Bereans. Do it in a humble spirit of truth-seeking, but don’t take the threat of withdrawal for murmuring as an answer. Get to the bottom of your questions. I dare you.
One quick comment on something that bothered my conscience was the constant repeating that all other churches were doomed to hell. I often wondered how they could declare this. I'm sure that I got the answer others did. Something like We would know if there were more. God would reveal that to us.
Yeah, you'll get answers. Whether they are TRUTH is a whole different matter.
Their confidence that all others are going to hell is only because of their blind faith in Merie's opinion that the "candlestick" had been removed from the mainline churches.
Declaring those churches "off" was just a convenient way to justify her defiance of one or more withdrawals. It was a brilliant self-deception—she no doubt convinced herself of its truth, because if the church were declared "off," their withdrawal(s) didn't have to be honored. Problem solved.
Read her divisive rhetoric in the founding docs. This was a woman who saw herself as the leader of a rebellion against paid preachers (which is not unscriptural, BTW). Then she trained loyal followers to choose her over their own families; wives who would secretly record their own husbands and send the tapes to her for "counsel."
It was a cult of personality. And now the old guard have to defend her legacy, because they helped create her by never, ever challenging her scriptural authority. She was the Teacher, the Rabbi. They were the young students, learning at her feet. The old guard were not the Bereans then, and they certainly can't allow any Bereans into the fold now. That would bring the whole house of cards crashing down.
Since they love to constantly talk about how everybody is going to hell,the way I think is they shouldn't be so concerned about us as they don't want to have to explain themselves at all.
Doing a quick Facebook check I see that DWC is currently attending a mainline Church of Christ. She sure hasn't changed in looks or mannerisms much. It looks like she gave up on the "start your own church" idea and has joined forces with the people who she once taught were as dead as door nails. Maybe there is hope for her yet! (smile)
I personally wonder where DWC now stands on the teachings and conduct of Merie since Merie was so vehemently against the "off church".
In her defense, she had no choice but to go out and start something on her own because she was not allowed to enter any assembly of the Stanton churches and at that time she believed all other churches were doomed for hell and without the candlestick. She and her husband were not withdrawn from but they were 'marked and avoided' which was a punishment pulled out the hat by the 'helpers' who flew into Des Moines for the withdrawal meetings. She was told to never ever darken their door again. The church in Des Moines was instructed to collectively leave the building if she or her husband showed up. The entire Stanton church was instructed to destroy her letters without reading them. Since that time the topic of "mark and avoid' has been thoroughly discussed at various May meetings. The most recent May meeting decision was that the people in Des Moine and the ones guiding them, GP, TC and KS, shouldn't have done what they did and instead should have withdrawn from DWC, her husband TJC and ML (who sided with them). I wonder if DWC even knows that the May meeting decision was such. Nothing was mentioned about contacting her and the others who were marked and avoided. I find this odd but not surprising.
To note – I was not a fan of her teachings, in fact I think they were WAY off and believe she was VERY oppressive and aggressive however I also believe she didn't deserve the hand she was dealt and neither did the others with her. People can and do change their beliefs and it's obvious she has. If anyone knows of her currently and where she stands, please share; better yet, invite her to this blog so they can she can speak for herself. But warn her… There are probably people reading this blog who want to give her a piece of their mind!
DWC was in Phoenix on her way to a premeeting with the evangelist in Spring Valley prior to her getting kicked out and she did a question and answer session with the single women and one of the young ladies had to leave to get her child from babysitting and after she left DWC made the remark the she walked away because she did not like what was being said. I asked the young mother why she left and she said it was to get her child and no she did not "run away " because she did not like what was being said. It struck me as strange for some one with her years in the SCOC and position of high authority to stab someone in the back but then again the arrogant rise to power and stay in power through subterfuge. The emotional response of the evangelist to DWC disagreeing with him is typical of the SCOC, if you so much as disagree with leadership them you are withdrawn from. DWC used withdrawal not for a member to see their sin but rather to force members into submission and this tactic is common with people who have been under her. DWC has a checked past full of abuses and it is best to be careful with inviting her into your life.
Starting your own church is a lot of work. A new church is like a new baby in that it needs constant attention and love. I had the privilege of helping to start two different churches. The teaching preachers took the opportunity to express how little they thought of us, the helpers, while we were doing all of the labor to get the new church birthed. From raising their voices at you during a non member class every time you look down to write a scripture so the audience would think the teaching preacher was trying to keep you awake, to making themselves the center of attention at every opportunity, to understanding that quantity and not quality of new recruits is all that mattered, it is a great experience that everyone should try at least once. Psalms 22:16 tells us of Christ's thoughts while on the cross how no one showed him any kindness but they oppressed him. If Christ had to endure oppression should we not also? The pattern I saw in starting a new church is for the teaching preacher to demand you pay all of your own expenses and also be the scapegoat in case the new church fails. Instead of being thankful for others helping you to get one of your two legs in becoming an evangelist (an evangelist is a two legged man, one leg is in starting a new church and the other is in helping other churches i.e. saving the lost and saving the saved) it is an opportunity for the teaching preacher to go after his supposed enemies within the church. It is no wonder with DWC having no internal enemies to go after, and no one else to do all the labors, and having no money provided to her that she quit trying to start her own church. It is an experience that every christian should go through at least once in your life, leave everything you know and all the support structure of family and friends and go to a strange place and start a new church in perhaps and already overcrowded religious area and compete for the souls of men by showing them attention and affection and teaching them the love of God, not an easy task for anyone, even the faithful.
Oppression teaches you some very important life skills. One skill is self encouragement, because when you are under oppression you will find no encouragement from anyone but yourself. You encourage yourself by reminding yourself that the promises of God are true. You encourage yourself by telling your self the story in John 2 where Christ's mother said they have no wine and Christ turned the water into wine and the governor of the feast chided the host saying you have saved the best wine for last is a metaphor for life and the best part is at the last and not what you are currently going through. You encourage yourself by learning that silence is wisdom and not to say anything around the oppressor or around any of the church spies. You encourage yourself by telling yourself that everyone who is righteous goes through oppression it is just your turn. You eventually will leave the oppressive environment but you will also gain some life wisdom that will serve you all of your life.
How twisted and insane thinking this is
Discouragement no longer affect me oppressor. Insults are not edifying but they do reveal your wicked heart. I think I have struck a nerve sharing how to cope with oppression. Your petty comment reveals just how weak you are, no counter argument, no experience of enduring oppression to share with others, no better way to cope with oppression just a fiery dart. You don't deceive anyone Satan.
Anon on October 4 at 9:45 PM-wow! Your last post was definitely strong and certainly uncalled for. You sound an awful (and I do mean awful) lot like the teachers and leaders in Merie's group. Number one, you ASSUMED that the person has a wicked heart, based only on a post! And then to say that the other person's post was "petty" reveals how judgmental you are.
While you are correct that there are things we can learn while being oppressed, it doesn't give you a right to come on here and belittle someone who's opinion is different than yours.
Please tone it down, and then maybe others will be more willing to listen and dialog with you. Just sayin…
Psychologists look at faith this way: "There is little doubt that in times of stress, particularly when under prolonged duress, some people are able to draw upon an inner reserve of energy to help them through the more psychologically and physiologically crippling phases. This character trait is called "spirituality" by psychologists. Christ said in John 4:32 I have meat to eat that ye know not, he was talking about faith, our inner strength comes from our faith. Equally the lack of inner strength has been frequently observed: the loud mouth person who is the center of attention, willing to take on all challengers is seen to disintegrate under stress, sometimes quite minor stress, this person does not have any faith. Faith or lack of faith can be seen in the readjustment of values: under normal circumstances leadership is easy, self assertion is a mask which covers many a weakness. As a rule we do not have time nor desire to look beneath it and so it is we commonly accept people on their own valuation. But in times of stress the outward show is nothing, it is the inward purpose that counts. So in times of stress the "gods" crumble and the humble supplant them. Pretense is useless in times of stress. When the apostles were unable to cast out a demon in Matthew 17:19-20 they asked him why and Christ said it was due to their unbelief. Faith makes one strong in times of peace and in times of stress, so where does one get faith? Romans 10:17 faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of god. Have you studied to strengthen the inner man today?
Debby Stevens let me put it in this context: One day I was in the evangelist's house in Spring valley and he was on the phone giving council to a teacher, in a congregation somewhere. He told the teacher "reprove them and if they don't stand up and confess right away, then you know what to do! There are somethings the human spirit cannot stand!" This shows that the evangelist does not build up others faith but rather he know how to destroy a person both spiritually and psychologically. This is the current leader of the SCOC. It is through constant criticism, especially petty criticisms, he destroys others. I believe all good things come from God and those who personify God, and all evil things come from Satan and those who personify Satan. I see no reason to let Satan prevail in the hearts of men, do you?
A study of constant criticism and how it wears down those around them will reveal the main teaching method of the SCOC. It's not the doctrine that is taught or not taught but the method of how church leadership manages it members that reveals their wickedness. Constant criticism is a weapon of the wicked to destroy others but there are cures to heal the wounds that criticism causes. One cure is refusing to believe the criticisms which neutralize its effects. I found many teacher and preachers just "doing what they are told" by leadership with no real understanding of what they are doing or the effects it has upon the human mind. By keeping members ignorant and obedient they have created a group of followers like sheep. Followers who are like sheep are both good and bad depending upon the shepherd leading them. I saw only a few members who had matured spiritually and could expound upon the virtues of Christ and the vices of Satan, most were ignorant just following the evil leader to their own destruction. I choose to be different and am self led through study of scriptures and encourage others to do the same.
Anon 1:00, I just think we need to be extremely careful to not blame the victims of abusive or oppressive behavior, meaning justify or minimize it while looking the other way to wrongs done by leaders. I'm never suggesting that victims of wrongdoing spend their lives "camping" in victimhood. But Stanton has a way of using a good principle like personal responsibility to justify the continuation of unloving, harmful behavior—as if no matter what negative thing happens, it's OK, because we are all expected to just deal with it and grow from it. By that logic, a child who is raped or abused, or whose parents are murdered in from of her just needs to "deal with it." Yes, and in Christ, she can, as she learns to process the evil done to her in a mature manner. But it does that does not lessen the immorality of the abuse. Nor does it lessen the need to stop immoral and abusive or oppressive behavior.
As a believer matures in Christ, they will learn to grow from all negative experiences. That doesn't justify whomever sinned against them by intentionally acting unlovingly and unscripturally toward them. It is never, ever OK to be abusive and oppressive, no matter what we may learn learn from the experience as a victim of it. Doing evil that good may come is not a scriptural principle.
Agreed. The point I am dealing with is that abuse has already occurred and how to mitigate its effects. I saw members made the object of criticism by leadership over and over again. If you disagreed with leadership or simply did not agree fast enough you were made the object of criticism. Members became demoralized and suffered the withdrawal of emotional support from leadership. I consider the evangelist on the same skill level of emotional manipulation as Jim Jones, David Koresh, Charles Manson, Shoko Asahara, Marshal Applewhite, to name just a few. So many members are just mind numbed followers having been emotionally abused until they reach a point of blind obedience. If the current leader demanded suicide of members who would be strong enough to resist him?
I should add that the poster on Oct 4 @ 9:13 PM is the evangelist in Spring Valley himself. The evangelist has a long history of personally attacking his enemies and not generally attacking sin. His attacks and eventually driving people out of the SCOC include but are not limited to your brother in law, Matt, DWC in Des Moines, an unknown preacher in Boise identified as having filthy dreams, and many more. I do not idly tolerate him questioning my sanity as his comment implies. His personal attack would cause one to question their own sanity, a tactic common in the SCOC and other cults. He needs to be challenged on the background of his opinion. Does he have and training in the mental health field to qualify him to make the judgement of insanity? None that I know of. His fiery darts are similar to those of Satan mentioned in Ephesians 6:16 and thus he is personifying Satan. He should be identified and rejected as the abuser that he is and not only him but all that follow his evil ways.
Well said Anon at 3:58. My point was that his attack was uncalled for. And his accusations were from left field. You are right in saying that this is one of the tactics that the leaders in the group use. One tried another tactic on me earlier by stating "I know you and your history well!"
It to strike fear into our hearts!
But the thing is, none of them know me, let alone well. They only think they do. What they do know is only what they were told by others, which are based on evil surmisings and assumptions. None of my teachers ever asked me questions about things I said and did. Neither did any of the leaders in the group. Ever. So to say they know me and know me well is preposterous. It's also untrue at best.
Re:AnonymousOctober 4, 2017 at 9:13 PM
"How twisted and insane thinking this is"
Are you open for an open debate? I would really love to debate the leaders in this church. I was limited in what I could when I was always accused of untruthful things, with unscriptural directions and reproofs, and how the congregation has been conditioned to follow only partial scriptures. I want all of this brought out into the open to where everybody can see what is done in secret and unscrpturally.
I want to know if you are convicted enough to defend what you believe in and to defend it according to scripture Let me know as I am ready.
The doctrine that leadership uses to manage church members is not the doctrine of Christ. I can easily identify the psychological tools of fear, obligation, and guilt being used by leadership to control members, but cannot find it in the Bible. Leadership consistently bullies members and then when members push back leadership plays the victim. The bully/victim style of leadership takes advantage of the emotions of fear and guilt to dominate and control members for the leaders ego gratification. The iron fist in a velvet glove is a good description of the current leader, do as I say or I will make you the object of ridicule throughout all the churches, should be his motto. How far they are from the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Gee Whiz can't an Evangelist Catch a Break around here? Now GP you only said but a few words and you got outed and criticized. Don't you want to set these people straight about you. Seems like your wife doesn't hide so well with the personas of Concern for the flock. Perhaps Little Bo-Peeping-Paula should reveal her true identity, since you are both such sincere Truth-Tellers. No, not really truth-tellers, more like, you are both are criminals and cohorts in a Bonnie and Clyde destructive path to your own demise. Only the people you are leaving behind have not died, like in the movie. They are here and have weapons of their own truths to use.
Let's have a Shoot-Out of the truth here Mr. & Mrs Evangelist. Tell you what You shoot First. But remember we all have keyboards that can kill you. Don't keep hiding from the Truth
And here is a good example of why you will never entice anyone still in the Stanton churches to speak up. It would be casting pearls before swine.
Christ did give the general warning In Mathew 7:6 not to give that which is Holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you but Christ gave pearls to Judas and he turned and killed Christ so doctrine and example are both there in the Bible. There are swine in the SCOC such as felony child abusers, pedophiles, convicted rapists on parole, preacher who was arrested for indecent exposure, and many others. They are in denial about their own place before God. Judgment needs to begin in their house and once their house is clean, then fell free to clean up this blog. God's house is suppose to be a house of prayer but they have made it a country club for oppressors and perverts.
Well no one can entice the leaders in Merie's church to speak up. They certainly won't debate leaders of mainstream Cocs. Heck, they are scared to publish their talks and any info. Not because the gov't would get them. No in reality it's because their own words would come back to haunt them, especially each time they changed their doctrine, I mean, judgements.
But the whole pearls before swine comment is so telling and totally something someone in Merie's church would say. That place uses the bible, not to be righteous, but rather to be SELF-righteous. The we're ABOVE you attitude. That's one quality that certain people are attracted to and makes that place so enticing. So many people go there when they're down. Who doesn't like feeling like they've finally got something over others? That's all FLESH. And that feeling of thinking you know more than others, that you get to declare who goes to heaven or hell, well, it's kind of addictive. And when you don't have much else going for you, then it's that much better.
So yeah, so far, none of the comments have yet to DISPROVE that Merie's church IS the OFF CHURCH. And you certainly can't prove that she ever came out of withdrawal. So by your own teachings, you are defending and following a woman who may be sitting in hell.
Just as much as you like to investigate how the Mormons, JWs, and 7th Day Adventists, among others, are wrong, why don't you investigate the founder of your own sect? I dare you to have the courage.
Mathew 7:6 Give not that which is Holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rend you. This is an interesting metaphor Holy refers to something dedicated to a religious purpose and you find with Christ and the apostles what he gave them was not riches or houses or positions of authority but knowledge. Pearls refers to wisdom which is obtained by applying knowledge and developing understandings. Dogs is a comparison not between the physical attributes between humans and dogs but the comparison is with behaviors that both share and one specific behavior that both humans and dogs share is aggression. Swine and humans also share a particular behavioral trait and that is: excess. The type of thinking where aggression comes from is pride, the superiority complex, the arrogant. The excess behavior comes from lustful thinking, and the inferiority complex, being a "doormat". What Christ is teaching here is not to give knowledge to the arrogant or understandings to the lustful. An arrogant person is easily identified by their behaviors of dominance and control of others and one might think they are just stuck on themselves why not teach them knowledge? Because the arrogant harbor aggression's and will use any piece of knowledge (scriptural or otherwise) to turn around and attack you. It is best not to talk with, or around, those who walk after their pride or walk after their lusts. When an arrogant person obtains religious knowledge they will show aggression's against God's people causing God's people to abhor God and the things of God, this makes God mad to say the least and it is better avoided, do not give the arrogant knowledge especially knowledge about the things of God. Gods laws do not change only humans change. If one is to benefit from a law of God they must obey it and if they chose to disobey they suffer the curses the law brings, but the laws of God do not change. Christians are given a law here about who not to share knowledge with and obedience by keeping one's mouth shut brings blessings, and specifically the blessings mentioned in Proverbs 3:2 length of days, and long life, and peace shall they add to thee. The arrogant will not be able to show aggression's against you if they don't know who you are or where you are to be found. Case in point is when Judas betrayed Christ he told the Romans that he would identify him with a kiss. After three years of preaching he was still unknown by face to the Romans and an insider had to identify him, Christ practiced wisdom by not teaching everybody he meet, he chose who would receive his Holy pearls and we should be just as selective as well, and remain silent around the prideful and lustful.
And yet Christ ate and drank with sinners…..and those who are well don't need a physician, only the sick….
MY point exactly! You don't read accounts of Christ eating with the leaders, not the religious leaders nor the secular leaders of his day though he himself was a king. The high and mighty are not what they seem as the look down upon those around them they were filled with pride and as such were not taught the gospel but the lowly in heart were. You can be open and honest about your faults and be accepted by God or you can hide your faults and pretend to be better than others and be rejected by God. Everybody has both pride and lust within themselves and it is those who humbly deal with themselves and others that God fellowships with.
It is very interesting to look into God's word. On one side you have the law of God which when taken to extremes condemns every man and the love of God which if also taken to extremes allows every evil person into the kingdom of God and nullifies the law. Which is correct law or love? Both are, man needs both the law of God for guidance and the love of God for mercy when we fail. Christ condemned religious leaders yet he himself was a religious leader. So then what is God talking about? Who is acceptable and who is rejected? In Luke 18:26 the Apostles asked Christ the same question "So then who can be saved?" Christ replied that the things that are impossible with man are possible with God. I need both the law of God and the love of God each and every day of my life, as does every man. The people who reject both the law and love of God are to be rejected. Communist countries are an example of those who reject God, they are both atheist and merciless, and become rejected of God themselves. There are people whose arrogance rises to a level so high that they forget about God, though the be religious men, and make themselves a god, king Saul is an example. So I find that if a man is willing to listen to the word of God all the days of his life he has hope; but when men reject God through arrogance or lust they are to be rejected having condemned themselves through unbelief.
I forgot to add the conclusion: so where is the SCOC at before God? I left a SCOC that no longer used God's word for guidance but instead was ruled by people who were both lawless and merciless, ungodly religious people. Jesus Christ was not the center of attention, and neither was Merie, but the people who would say "Merie said" were the controlling members and the law they taught and followed whatever aggrandized themselves before the members, they had highjacked the faith of many from following Christ to following themselves. I rejected the SCOC for not having the law of God nor the love of God.
Anon 8:36. Your description there of law and love/mercy is GRACE. I've been studying that because I never really learned about grace in the SCOC. It's there for when something seems impossible for us to overcome. God's grace, particularly when we are trying, yet still failing, is yet another one of His perfect gifts. I am certainly glad to see how much it is mentioned in the New Testament. And I wish I had known it more in-depth and properly been taught it as I believe it leads one to be a more content Christian.
As someone mentioned in an old comment here, there are many unhappy Christians in the SCOC who are left feeling like they are never good enough no matter how hard they try. Grace is a wonderful thing for us all, but especially for those who feel like they'll never be good enough.
It is such a beautiful thing when a Christian studies their Bible and develops understandings it is like building a house on a solid rock foundation. Many people I know personally claim to be Christians but have built their house on other books like the Christian Baptist by Alexander Campbell, or cassette tapes of Merie and use "Merie said" as their doctrine anything other than the bible is a foundation of sand which will last for a while but when the hard times come they are in trouble as their unstable foundation crumbles from under them. He that gathers by labor shall increase and this is as true spiritually as it is carnally. If you do the labor that is study you will collect knowledge and understanding and you will be a tree whose fruit remains. You are setting a great example M Long!
Thanks Anon. I have to credit the elders and preacher at the COC I now go to. While at Merie's church I did HEAR that other religions don't study in context, but neither do they! Most classes and sermons were topical and especially nonmember classes too. SO MUCH jumping around! Even when we were studying one chapter/verses, the sharing naturally picked up one topic and jumped around. The problem with that is that we were many times connecting things that were not relevant or completely out of context. I am now trying to study in context to understand the situation and come up with conclusions based on that.
One thing that comes to mind is their overuse of public confessions. Not a single true example of that in the New Testament, but rather a reconciling with those you've offended. So many private confessions to non Christians or others actually CAUSE offense (e.g., please forgive me for giving ear to YOUR gossip lol)!
Still so much to learn, but so thankful for God's mercy in not only letting me leave there, but also that I wasn't there so long that I can't get past the "This is the One True Church so I just can't go anywhere else" feeling. I know so many who are so entrenched that even though they can see some obvious wrongs they can't leave. So sad.
Most classes and sermons I heard were diatribe and and not much else. So many times it was a pointed attack against someone in the cross hairs of the teacher/preacher. One sermon from the tow truck preacher was from Zechariah 3:1 where it says Joshua was before the Lord and Satan was at his right hand to resist him; and how that now I was Satan to him because I was at his right hand serving at the Lords table but was told to sit down for missing a first Friday of the month class. He roasted me over an open flame and I decided that I would not be under his tutelage. Make one mistake and you are Satan, I know of no one that can operate under the demand to be perfect for very long. You were only good until you did something wrong and that was pretty much the end of your Christianity with him. I made it several weeks under his cruel tutelage but others were rejected in as little as four days after baptism. I now study not to disprove him and his hatred, but rather to educate myself on what pleases God and my spiritual life is so much richer now. It makes me happy to read of others maturing from the church of superiority.
The sermons really went after the masturbaters,fornicators, people that caused problems in the congregations by sewing seeds of discord. So I guess to those who fell under those sins these sermons would have been ' diatribe' at best. What is the matter with a church going after sin and the things of satan i'll never know. They should only preach on love for pity's sake.
I finally found this again. It is a talk one of the Evangelists did. This is important to me because I called him to Tacoma for the vary same reasons he is speaking of and it was turned against me. I, also, believe that this is a huge problem through out the churches.
This talk was about those in the church who needed help spiritually, emotionally, and physically. He goes on to say what part in his own live was "in the valley" and he needed help on.
Here is what was said:
Don't Forget Them In The Valley 3/5/08
"I have a difficulty doing random acts of kindness. I am a person that my wife will always say, honey will you do this or do that for this person over here, and I will do it, but I know me well enough to know that it is disingenuous. Part of me that does not want to do that……My wife at times comes and says come and do this and this, but I don't want to do that. That's the part of me that's the truth."
"I didn't do it for the right reason, I did it because I'm supposed to, because it is expected, it is the Christian thing to do."
"We know that works without faith is dead and so is works without faith."
Now look at it this way. If this was such a huge part in his life that he was lacking, how can he be a help or example for others? He was called to Tacoma for this same very reason he was having trouble with coming to terms with in his own life and in being in this state he used that in counsel. His indifference was actually creating harm as he could not see the problem here that he was having in his own life so his judgements were off.
In another talk from another member about humility he says that the next time you want to do something that is humbling, at the next fellowship offer to get another member a cup of coffee. It is the giving of ourselves to others.
To continue:
"I love to teach, but I don't love to do other things…..I don't know how to teach people to it the right way"
This was the crux of the meeting in Tacoma and with this mindset of his he was dismissive because he was indifferent.
At a meeting, "I watch how other people deal with that are handicapped and that are aged, I watch their hearts and say that I have so far to go. I love to teach. It is easy to do the things you love to do."
This is a mindset and a heart that is set to counsel and be examples for other people. Yes, he says he has to work on it and sees i, but in the mean time his counsel and judgements askew to heart and mindset. I believe that what happen in that Tacoma meeting was concluded by this and it is detrimental to anybody that has to be dealt with this mindset and heart.
One of the biggest problems in the church is indifference from the lack of love that follows this pattern.
Anon @ Oct 11 10:37 am Your being disingenuous to say the least. The sermons I heard over the first three years were "I love the evangelist" or "I hate you and your going to Hell" from the tow truck preacher and then the next nine from the preacher from Albuquerque were so boring I can barely remember any of them as I was trying to fight off sleep due to boredom. The sin that was not taught on is what is really a pity. Sins like child abuse, men forbidden to work and women supporting the men repeatedly. Never heard a lesson from the evangelist about the evils of arrogance and how one of the curses of being arrogant is loneliness in old age because your children will avoid you at all costs.(and just where are the children of the tow truck preacher today?) I never heard a lesson on how bribing the evangelist will cause him to go soft on sin toward the richer congregations. The preacher from Albuquerque was good at sowing seeds of discord but was never reproved for it because he was black and the white evangelist would rather that sin reign the to be accused of being racist for reproving a black man for his sin. What a pity indeed. Sin reigns when hypocrisy is king.
Anon Oct 11 @ 10:37 If the sermons went after masturbation, fornication, people that caused problems by sowing discord then please explain the behaviors in Prescott congregation with one preacher from Great falls MT being arrested for indecent exposure, the baptizing of a convicted rapist on parole (who reoffended the day his parole was over and was sent back to prison) The football player preacher being withdrawn from for uncleaness for five weeks then two weeks later preaching again so the tow truck preacher could go to Vallejo CA, then had to be brought down to Phoenix and sat down for oppressing his wife? It seems to me that you are a liar, the pulpit was not used to go after the sins of masturbation, fornication or anything else but rather to make up false charges of masturbation against those of us who stood for the truth against the oppressive and corrupt tow truck preacher. He bragged of his many enemies in the church over his years of preaching his false accusations. If you could overcome your deceit and tell the truth is the SCOC a safe place to bring children or do the perverts still watch children go to the bathroom during bible class?
One of the "fruits" or identifying behaviors, of masturbation is lack of natural affection, that is being merciless toward others, found in Romans 1:22-32. I ask all readers to judge on this fruit the following observed behaviors from church leaders: tying children to beds, did the woman who teach this have natural affection? The beating of two year old children with a fiberglass rod until you bruise them, did this woman have natural affection? the beating of your fourteen year old son until he ran away, did this man have natural affection? The convicted rapist, did he have natural affection? The four and half hour screaming and yelling sermon in San Antonio, did that preacher have natural affection? The USMC drill instructor pinching his son so had in Bible class that he cried out in pain, did that man have natural affection? and I could go on and on and on. The SCOC is not the blind leading the blind but rather the unclean leading the unclean. You teach against masturbation? apparently not when it comes to those in leadership positions.
Anon Oct 11 @10:37 You are clearly just like the leadership of the cult. Focused on SEX and exposing others to your own views of sex. It IS NOt a church's responsibility to "Go after sin" It is their responsibility to Teach from a book and not to teach from the words of some old spinster of the 50's
Yes just by your last comment , it displays your lurid obseesion to know "who is mastubating in my church" "Who is having sex that I am not having" No that's Not teaching that's Inquisition.
Maybe the moniker should be Perverted P instead of Peeping P . Careful preacher wife you are about to be exposed again.
Briefly reading these comments to it does not appear any of you are growing but just going over the same old gripes and my my going back to quotes from yesteryears. Find a healthy church and bible study and get a counselor outside of the church and learn to live again. Free yourselves…everyday you spend on complaining and griping is a wasted day. Listen to yourselves, This little dead witch (Merie) still has control of you from the grave?
Anon 8:30: unfortunately, cults such as Merie's do leave lasting scars and collateral damage. Personally, I am free of that place and am certainly thankful for that freedom. However, I now have kids who won't speak to me because of this place. Honestly, if not for that, I wouldn't give it a second thought.
Also, it would be nice if people from there just left us alone. Some try contacting my teen who lives with me. DS, wife of JS navy man, called me twice and left messages for us to return a couple things (tapes). It literally makes me sick that they can preach against us, cause our families to stop speaking to us and to separate us, yet they are comfortable calling me about some old cassette tapes? How off do you have to be to think it's ok to bother someone who you have cut off and taught her own kids to be against? Hypocrisy at its BEST.
Thankfully I have found a great church with elders. For me, it's only been a few months, but it's better every day. I don't feel like I'm bitter but I DO want to be left alone by them all, except my daughters, who I dearly love and always will. I pray that one day they see that they are not following Christ there but rather that lady Merie that founded this mess out of her pride and self-righteousness.
As for the others here in various stages of grief, anger, sorrow, self-pity, whatever…let's just keep them in prayer.
It is exposing the unscriptural methods of control that is important. One false teaching is that of one brother/ one sister. Any time a scripture was brought up that leadership did not want to follow the would use:"well one time one brother /one sister did that and it did not work out so that's why we won't do that", And they make the scriptures of none effect, through their use of one brother/ one sister false teachings. Going after those who cause problems in the congregations by sowing (not sewing) seeds of discord was not done but they in fact went after those who disagreed with the abusive methods of control. The methods of management more closely resemble psychological warfare taught by the U.S. Army than any religious doctrine of church mangement. The evangelist was in the Army but never has said what exactly his job was and it makes one wonder where he learned such methods of psychological control. The reducing of a person to nothing through constant criticism is a tool of psychological warfare. Every time a person does or says anything they are criticized or contradicted until the decide it is hopeless and give up resistance, this is called learned helplessness. People who are under the control of a dominating leader will do nothing to help themselves even though the answer is obvious. Many members and former members of the SCOC suffer from learned helplessness and it needs to be addressed and overcome. You can help yourself out of bad situations and God wants us to overcome and gives us all the tools we need to succeed both in and out of the SCOC. These are not the same old gripes but in fact the deep roots of control that need to be exposed and cut down like the roots of a rotten tree. Domination and control of others is not Godly but Devilish.
Anon, that may have been your experience but, unless you are being sarcastic, I'm not sure why you'd say it is a good learning experience. Learning can happen in any environment. However, from what I've seen, especially from children raised in Merie's church, is that instead they want nothing to do with God AT ALL. Having heard all their lives day in and day out that this is the One True Church, and hating it, they leave to pursue a Godless life. That is one of the major damages of religious cults.
There's plenty of ways to learn life wisdom without being oppressed by a religious sect. Life throws enough at us. Christ's church should be a refuge and a place of rest from all that.
I think most of us can agree that Merie's church and refuge do not go hand in hand.
Kevin, while I was in the church some had nothing good to say about fostering and it almost sounded like it was not allowed. Maybe they were just really against it? I always thought wow, selfish people and it was really sad. Four different people were against it that I mentioned it to. Are they totally against it do you know?
As humans, we can and do (in fact, we must) learn from negative as well as positive experiences. That's what makes us human and not simply reflexive animals. We have autonomy, self-direction.
But saying what we *do* have—an imperfect world where we face evil and must make the best of it nonetheless—is not the same as agreeing that's what we *should* have.
What makes us humans, made in the image of God, is our understanding of "is vs. ought." It's our moral judgement of right and wrong, good and bad, or sometimes, bad and better.
We can always see what *is* and just deal with it. Animals do that; just consider Pavlov's experiments with dogs. But seeing what *ought to be* and being part of the solution to change things from a moral framework to be more in keeping with the image of God—that is what it means to be a human made in the image of God with an awareness of good and evil. To go further and pursue the good at a personal cost—that is what it means to be redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. It's exactly what Jesus did for us, and it's the least we can do for our fellow man, given that fact.
So let's not hide behind the reality of life, and pretend that our negative experiences are desirable. Can humans rise up from their negative experiences and make lemonade out of lemons? Absolutely! Does that mean we should justify and enable the people giving us the lemons? Of course not.
Here's an analogy. My wife and I are passionate about the kids in foster care. They're there through no fault of their own—it is the adults in their lives who let them down. So for us, doing foster care is the embodiment of James 1:27's definition of pure religion, serving the fatherless.
These kids have been abused, neglected, and abandoned. And they experienced all this at highly formative ages where they were vulnerable to the adults in their lives. God did not create them with the ability to make good judgements at that age, yet their experiences of being raped or fondled or beaten or left without food in the house clearly impact their future decisions and relationships in life. How could it not?
Some do mature and use their negative life experiences to become better. But some need a lot of help to learn how to build real relationships and real trust with another human being, let alone a spouse.
It is not our place to judge them for where they are at, but to move them forward from where they are, in the direction of God. He alone can heal those wounds done to them by the adults in their lives at such an early age. For most, especially teens, that means radically changing their environment—intentionally removing themselves from negative influences dragging them down and luring them into negative thinking, addictions, and illegal behavior.
It's called boundaries, and many people in Stanton need to learn to set them.
JMHO
Anon 2:13, I give a lot of grace on the subject of fostering. For us, it's a ministry. It's how my family serves the "least of these." But others have different gifts and callings. To me, though, a theology that looks down on fostering is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ.
I have to give my parents credit. Their generation did not look kindly upon foster parenting or adopting in general. We got a lot of flack when we first expressed interest in adopting our first two girls from foster care. All we heard for the longest time was all the horror stories of "so and so knew someone who knew someone who adopted someone, and they turned out to be an axe murderer" or whatever. We finally had a passionate and tearful conversation with them to set some boundaries, and we said either get behind us on this, or literally get behind us and you won't be around our family. We were going to do it regardless of what they felt about it, because we knew this was of God.
Thankfully, they changed, and both of them fully accepted my adopted kids as their own grandkids. My mom cares deeply about my adopted kids and even tries to build relationships with my foster kids to this day. She continues to ask about teens who have left our home, or who have gotten in trouble with the law, or whatever. So people can change their views.
But you're right that Stanton doesn't promote foster care (or home schooling), because it would take time away from church work. Because, you know, it's more important to make more members twofold more a child of hell than yourselves than to actually give a child a Jesus-centered, loving family for however long opportunity permits.
Sorry about the sarcasm. 🙂
M Long no not being sarcastic at all. I went through oppression in the military then in the SCOC and from time to time on the job. Oppression is part of life and to survive one must develop coping skills and one skill is to pull something good out of every bad situation. I was taught negative thinking, by leadership in the SCOC. Everything that happened or did not happen was a curse or punishment from God, it was a negative religion, God did not do anything good for the Christians in the SCOC. Nothing was ever mentioned about the blessings of God or seeing the good God works in our lives through both blessings and chastisements. God was presented only in the pejorative that is is the negative. I have learned to take the abuse of the SCOC and make something good out of it and encourage others to do the same.
I forgot to add coping strategies. Cooperation and collaboration, coping and compliance, or evasion and resistance. The Pharisees used cooperation and collaboration with the Romans and it led to their eventual destruction as a nation. Many men choose cooperation and collaboration with the tow truck preacher and it led to the destruction of their families. I used evasion and resistance with the oppressive tow truck preacher and it worked for a short time but he increased his oppression and I had to change to cooperation and compliance to remain in the SCOC. The tow truck preacher was very observant and every coping strategy I tried he attacked until I saw an opportunity to encourage him to "go out" and start his own church, which he did and which ended his oppression due to us being in different congregations. There is always a way to cope with evil authority; God will help if you seek him out in your time of need.
I have a question. DWC was kicked out of the Stanton churches because of oppression, murmering, etc. Did the churches changed with her gone or are they the same?
That congregation may have gotten better changes because she was gone, but the church, overall, is the same.
I knew her in the 80's as she came to Tacoma once a week and we had our 1st Friday classes. She was so nice, but when I came back in 1999 I saw a huge difference in here at my first Boise 4th of July meeting. There was a huge darkness.
My whole contention is that there is a great lack of love throughout the churches and she displayed a lot of it. The leaders have either forgotten or dismissed that we are supposed to deal with each other in love.
I'm not saying they promote it but Merie's church has softened in the area of fostering and adopting. We fostered a 17yr old last year (that was tough!) And I know of several families who have fostered and adopted. One was unable to bear children and I believe the other took in a child of a person raised in Merie's church.
Softened? To me they should be keeping their mouths shut if it's not a sin. What we do in our lives is not their business if it's not a sin. They just take it upon themselves that it is their business and want to Yap out their opinions when their opinions are not needed.
So I was looking at DWC's commentary at http://yourchurchtoo.blogspot.com/?m=0 . I had run into it years ago. Of course I had been told by Merie's church to ignore it. I do find her accusations interesting. For one, even though she's wrong, it is an example of the drama and self-righteousness that is persistent in Merie's church. Probably because SHE (Merie) was like that. Everything was harsh, negative, a rebuke or reproof. Everyone but her was wrong. The commentary also shows how idolized Merie was. While I don't see that idolatry of Merie in the younger generation, I certainly see them idolizing new teachers.
Too bad… Christ himself seems to be just a side note in their sect. I don't mean that he's not mentioned, but rather that people there would prefer to be more like a human teacher than like Christ. And many would certainly prefer that a human teacher like them and view them as worthy than consider whether Jesus would approve of them.
Anyway, the commentary is over 10 yrs ago. I hope she is doing well where she is and learning to follow Christ and not man, as we all should be. 🙂
She is doing well and learning not to follow man.
The commentary because of my remarks "how twisted and insane this thinking is" are very difficult to read. If I understand all the remarks correctly you are assuming they came from an envangalist. Not true. I said it and perhaps it was too strong but I do think some of these comments are not coming from the kind of Christians I know and if they were I would run. Perhaps I should have used twisted and bizarre instead. Just all very odd and disturbing to me that all of this is from Believers who say they love our powerful and might God. I am sure he must have a tear in his eye over all of it.
Anon I think I understand what you're saying. Unlike a church sharing you may be used to, this blog is open for all to comment and share. There are even avowed Atheists who comment on here. People who have been damaged by the sect's teachings and are angry or hurt or want nothing to do with God even. That's one reason Merie's church is dangerous. It doesn't promote or create what the New Testament aims to accomplish. It leaves a lot of humans damaged. And you may be witnessing some of that here. It's part and parcel of this blog.
I apologize for making the assumption that it was the evangelist who made the post. I made the assumptions due to similar mannerisms of criticisms without any basis. Please explain your conclusions for twisted and insane thinking from the scriptures. I read of David in the old testament who had to flee from King Saul when he turned evil, just how does one deal with wicked authority? Christ did not fall down and worship Satan, or the Pharisees, or the Scribes, or the Romans, all wicked authorities of his time. In my post of how to internally deal with oppression, I found self encouragement a necessity not twisted or insane. I looked to Christ who was silent before Pilate, he did not open his mouth to defend himself though he could have easily defeated the Jews by telling Pilate that if you let the Jews rebel against my authority they will also rebel against your authority (which they did), is this a wrong conclusion on my part? Please explain your criticisms from scriptural example if possible.
It is so ridiculous it is not possible.
Thank you for your comment. You are a troll, nothing good to say about anybody or anything. Everybody please ignore this troll as attention only encourages their evil minds.
Let me check my understandings with all of you. In Matthew 12:42 Christ said that a greater than Solomon is here so I take the life of Christ and apply it to the proverbs and see if they agree. In Proverbs 1:10-19 Solomon gives a warning not to be enticed by sinners and I see that when Christ walked the earth the Romans occupied the nation of Israel and one of the recruitment's of the Roman army is that the soldiers got to divide the spoil of the nations they conquered and I believe some of the Jews joined the Roman army because of the questioning of John the baptists, but what do others think? I also looked at proverbs 1:20-33 with the ministry of Christ to Israel and took wisdom and replaced it with Christ and I see Christ cried without, and called people to come to God but the Jews refused and rejected Christ's message and in A.D. 70 when the Romans came and conquered Jerusalem through starvation that many would then be calling on God for help but God would not help because they refused his son, but what do others think? Does the wisdom of Solomon and Christ agree one on a carnal plane and the other on a spiritual plane?
I gave it a quick look and first I don't think in Proverbs 1 I would replace wisdom with Christ because, well it's clearly referring to wisdom and knowledge vs fools who want nothing to do with it. I also would connect the whole chapter in context because I read just the scriptures you cited and then I read the whole chapter and I think I came to a bit different outcome. Wisdom and its instruction as well as fear of the Lord are the subject here.
As for God refusing to help those who rejected his Son… again, wisdom here is basically "laughing" at those who reject it, but I would say it's simply referring to the natural consequences when God's wisdom is rejected. So that can be anything, whether it's hanging out with bad people (sinners mentioned) and doing bad things, or even rejecting Christ, to anything in between.
As for your last question, I am not sure I understand, but If we're talking about wisdom from scripture, does it need a spirtual/ carnal label? Will that label help you understand the context any better? Just some thoughts. 🙂
Having said that, these scriptures really had me thinking of Merie's church: Prov 1
31Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.
32For the turning away of the simple will slay them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them.
The fruit reference is obvious. They are destroying their own families and so many kids raised there despise Merie's church. They are reaping what they've sown.
Simple/complacency makes me think how one just becomes a robot there, dull, just doing what you're told. Complacent.
No expert here, just what I got from it.
I agree with M. Long that I wouldn't replace wisdom in the scriptures with Christ BUT; I agree with you Anon at 9:50 am that it does apply with both. The consequences are the same when we reject wisdom and Christ, whether here and now (carnal level) and on a spiritual level.
As to whether or not Jews joined the army because of the questioning of John the Baptist, I really can't say. The scriptures don't expound on it, and I don't believe it really matters (in pertaining to our souls and salvation).
I don't know if that's what you were looking for, but that's my best attempt! 🙂
Anon October 7, 7:57 Actually that church is worse. Example how they handle withdrawal. Unscriptural withdrawals continue. Mark and avoid. Treat them as they are withdrawn from even though they are not. Withdrawing from nonmembers. Time frame when one can come back from withdrawal. When one who has been withdrawn from yet comes to the conclusion they are a nonmember having them go through the withdrawal then talk baptism afterwards. All over the board. Confusion these leaders are from Christians.
Anon 8:30 what is your relations with Merie’s church? Have you had your family life damaged by that church? Have you ever been labeled something that you are not by that church? Gripe? How about facts and truths about a cult that some are exposing.
I always wondered how cult leaders achieved so much control over their followers and the story of Harvey Weinstein explains it. To achieve power over others the arrogant start with humiliation of their targeted victim, then degrading them further, then dehumanizing the victim, then isolating and finally abusing their intended target. I was humiliated very quickly after baptism by the teaching preacher being yelled at for two hours in a bible class going over May week questions. Then being publicly called a fool, and from Acts 8:9-13 look at this man Simon he was a fool and he believed and got baptized so yes fools get baptized. I not knowing how to handle such a vicious public attack simply sat there and took all of the abuse. Today I know that silence only encourages the abuser more and i do not let other treat me badly. We had a man at work get promoted to a supervisor position and he immediately started threatening and belittling the rest of the employees. I went straight to the boss and said this is hostile work environment and if it does not stop I will file suit and seek damages. The threatening stopped immediately afterwards. Hostile church environment is a good description of the SCOC and the oppressors need to be stood up to and backed down, do not take their abuse it will only get worse if you remain silent.
Keep up the good posts everyone and pray for strength to be able to stand up to the bullies and set boundaries. I know it can be very hard. At least it's is for me in some situations.
For those who can't understand how ones can get into a group like Merie's, and then stay even though it's abusive:
The first thing you need to understand is that most folks joined the group because they were looking to find and serve God. They have a good heart, and realize they have many faults that they need to overcome.
The leaders in the group recognize this, and prey on it. The new member is lied to, and misled about what the group really teaches. It also lies about the teachers, and how ones become a teacher. I was told that ones become a teacher because they are experienced and chosen by God-and that they know you better than yourself.
It's only later that you start to realize that this isn't true!
But the leaders of the group prey on that good heart that ones have. And because of that heart, you listen to what they say are your faults and the things you need to do. After all, they know the bible and you don't!
It's only when you start to study and get understanding from the bible and prayers and experience that you realize how "off" the group is. But at first you are filled with self doubt at what you are seeing.
And you may also believe that its just your teachers, that others are fine. That's what the group would have you believe too. But as time goes on you finally start to realize that it's the whole group, not just your teachers.
Even after coming out of the group its not an overnight process to get past what the group has done to you. It takes a while, and some of it is so ingrained in you that it takes a while to see that too!
So please have patience and love and mercy for those who still need to do a little venting. It's difficult to find ones that you can talk to about your experiences, those who haven't gone through them have a hard time understanding it. Here, we have ones who do understand, and it can be such a relief to finally be able to talk about it! And finally find ones who believe you and are not judgmental about it!
I agree, Debby. While many not in the group have sympathized with our situation, I have certainly been asked: How did you let this happen? (Specifically in reference to my older teens not speaking to us because of the sect). I'm almost embarrassed when it's asked. I begin to feel stupid, duped. How DID I NOT SEE this? It's just a slow process that begins to seep into you and your family. You feel like you have so much in common with others in the sect. You begin to follow the example of others who keep non-sect family members at a distance. So it happened by the seeds that I myself had sown as well as the strong influence of their father, who has been a "Christian" for 34+ yrs. We did those same things to others; I too have left others out and cut people off at the command of the sect in my 8 yrs as a member. They are just following the example that was set for them. And just because I finally figured it out doesn't mean they are going to follow. Time will tell.
But you all here know like no one else does. You may not have had the same experience, but you've seen it.
It's so sad because just as we have been cut off, my husband and I are determined to never allow our younger children near the sect. And unfortunately, you now have a situation in which older kids haven't seen or bonded with little ones who love them dearly. From my experience, I know that bond won't just be there and it saddens me but the alternative, that they so easily cut off, I will no longer stand for. I'd just rather have a fresh start and completely cut off the religious cult my ex-husband FP, with his serious reputation of horrible judgment in any situation anyway, brought us into.
Debbie how long were you in the Stanton churches? Over ten years I believe. Why didn't you leave when you gained knowledge of the scriptures?
Anon on October 14 at 10:39:
The reasons why I didn't leave right away are many and varied! But I will do my best to try and answer your question.
First off, when I first came into the group I didn't have any knowledge of what the bible said, let alone what it was all about. I wasn't raised with the bible, just what the catholic church taught. Also, having been raised in the catholic church, I was taught to believe, trust and obey the "spiritual" ones in the church!
So it took me years to study and learn and understand things in the bible. My early years in Merie's group was spent studying, learning and applying-as well as doing the works of the group. I was treated well, loved the people there, and was loved by them as well.
It was only after I moved to Florida and was with a different set of teachers that things began to change. Eventually I called out about them, and they ended up withdrawn from. (That's the short version of a very long story and many years!).
Our congregation was assured by various teachers and evangelists that those teachers were not typical of all the teachers in the group. And that what they taught and how they rebuked, etc was not what the group did. We were also told and assured that things would be taken care of and that things would be made right.
Well, suffice it to say, that was not true. The teachers they sent to us were just like the ones we had before. But this time when I would try and take it to older ones, I was repelled. Things were turned around onto me and I was made out to be the problem and troublemaker.
Also, May meetings changed as well as teachings of the group. It was happening gradually, but it was happening. At first I didn't know what to do about it! And at first I just couldn't believe it. I was assured by older ones that things would get worked out, etc. And because I am a trusting and slightly naïve person, I believed them.
But as time went on, it just got worse. And I realized that I had to do what the scriptures said-that by their fruits you will know them. I had to look at what was being done, said and taught, rather than to listen to what they said and promised.
It was hard to do. I am used to taking people at their word. But when I took a step back and started watching instead, I realized I had a problem.
I stayed as long as I did because at first I thought things could be worked out and changed. I also loved a lot of the Christians, not all are like the older ones and teachers. That, of course, make it even more confusing and difficult.
It's very difficult to leave something-or someone-when you have invested a lot of time and love on. You would rather work at it, try and fix it. (I'm a fixer by nature, and will give it everything I have!).
But I finally had to come to grips with the fact that the group was lying to all of us, and preying on our good hearts. That wrong things were being taught and done. Scriptures twisted, and wrong understandings being handed out as doctrine. They were putting burdens on us that were not of God, but of man. They were making scriptures say things that they don't say.
It's devastating, to say the least.
I know that may not explain everything to you, but that's the best I can do for now! It's not just one thing, it's a combination of lots of things-emotions, relationships, scriptures, wanting to do the right things, to be right with God, wanting to try and work things out, self examination (is the problem me like they say or is it them or a combo of both???), self doubt (I've never been a confident person), love, …..
I hope that helps! Sorry if it's all kind of muddled 🙂
There are so many reasons that Merie's group is so dangerous to people's souls and their salvation, that it would take up too much space and time to list it all.
But the most dangerous thing that they teach, and will not bend on, is that they teach and believe that THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES GOING TO HEAVEN. They teach that everyone else is going to hell.
And the reason? They say it's because
1) they are the only ones who have the truth
2) they are the only church
3) they are the only ones who understand the scriptures and know what they say
4) that they only teach and speak where the scriptures do
Look at #1: The truth is available to everyone! Not just Merie's group. It's all right there, in the bible. And not just in the KJV, and not just in the English language. How outrageous that ones can believe that only the KJV in English holds the truth! The KJV (note the last word in KJV means "version") is a translation from the original languages, so it's not even "original". It was translated by people. Merie's group claims that God guided those people into making an accurate translation-but He did not do so for other translations.
REALLY? Who says? Where in the bible do you see that written? Did God speak directly to ones in Merie's group, and tell them that? For ones who "only speak where the bible speaks" that is really odd, isn't it?
#2: They are the ONLY true church? Look at the scriptures, does it really only advocate ONE TRUE church? Doesn't it really speak of the church as the members? Didn't Christ tell the apostles that there were others that were His too?
And where is the proof that they are the ONLY church? Based on what, the teachings of a woman who was withdrawn from and had to leave to start another church? Ones are claiming to be the one true church, all based on opinions and understandings of one woman. When I realized that, it scared me badly. What had I done?? What had I been believing??
Kevin did an excellent job at revealing a lot of this.
#3: It's very arrogant and self serving to claim that they are the only ones who can understand the scriptures. Especially when the bible itself says that even a fool can't err therein.
And yet how convoluted is it to say that, and then tell ones that they need to study for themselves and gain understanding! And to teach "non-member classes and give ones scriptures and tell them to go and study them out!
And why would God have given us ALL His words, if we couldn't understand it? Granted, there are things in the scriptures that I don't understand, and may never be able to. But most of it I can and do understand. Such as "love your neighbor and love God". Simple, isn't it?? Yet, only they can understand that?
#4: They do NOT only speak where the bible speaks and stay silent where it's silent. They teach all kinds of things that are not found in the scriptures.
One of the things I learned was that the scriptures and the examples in them are NOT laws. Paul and others gave advice, and principles, examples, understandings, etc. but they did not add to or change Gods laws. They even taught against that!!! Warned us that ones would come and do that very thing!
Kevin has a huge list of the things that the group teaches, please go and look those over and then look for them in scriptures. And they teach them as LAW-bible classes are required. Staying all day Sunday is required. Don't doubt that for a second, even though they will tell you it's your choice. They even tell you that you are required to give on Sunday, and then tell you when and how to do it!
Just some things to think about, folks. There is so much more, but space and time is limited.
Just a clarification-When I said the scriptures in them are NOT laws, I meant the scriptures that are the letters to the Christians in the New Testament. Paul, John, James, Peter, etc. did not make up new laws in those letters. They expounded on them, reminded the Christians of them, gave examples, etc. But they did NOT make up new ones for us to follow! Hope that helps!
Debby, good summary on the dangers and lies being taught in Merie's church. Very much agree and wish I'd seen it sooner too.
Debby, that was a great answer to the question. I wonder total hypothetical question which Merie’s church at least in Portland do not like to be asked. Any how what if another church somewhere taught exactly the same as Merie’s church. Would Merie’s church welcome them into fellowship. If the other church had elders and evangelists would Merie’s church leaders yield any authority. Just interesting thinking about it. Any thoughts?
I found the methods of control to be disturbing. The main tool was fear. Members lived in fear of leaders and public rebukes. Chilling stories of ex members were told constantly to keep members in the church, (as bad as the church was it was worse losing your mind due to falling away and giving into uncleanness) Betrayal was a common tool as well, no matter what you said to a friend in the church it was brought out in class against you, there was no one you could trust with with any conversation. Many members believed everything they were told without seeking additional evidence of its veracity, many members were not aware they were being manipulated. By targeting someones peace you can make a person miserable. Leadership would disrupt a persons peace during fellowships by making them uncomfortable with indirect insults, and insinuations of evil motives, assigning motives to your actions that did not exist (such as he made that prayer request just to make himself look good). Leaders were able to gain great control over others by making them constantly doubt what they are saying. By constantly asking them if that's really what something means people develop introspection around the leader and remain silent and then the leader gains power over them and the follower loses self esteem. Example if I made a statement in the affirmative such as "Jesus is the son of God" I would be asked repeatedly "are you sure? come on now!" or words to that effect. Threats were used against unruly members like "you do that again and you will be withdrawn from" or "you will be marked and avoided if you continue" and other like threatening statements. I came to the conclusion that the scriptures were just a show piece and not really followed but rather the leaders word was law and it was expected to be obeyed without question, much like the military.
Anon 9:18 Merie’s church period is disturbing. Anyone doubt such read this entire blog and the comments. Inside the church though I was never really a member I recognized disturbing things throughout my 20 years. I was just stupid enough to remain amongst them. I agree with the fear factor which is man fearing. My life this past 5 months has been the best in the past 20 years 5 months if you get my point. Other than my wife who is in bondage to Merie’s church I couldn’t be happier and I do not fear anything that church had tried to plant in my mind with the threats of what would happen if you leave.
Phobia indoctrination does occur. What would happen if I leave was surpassed in my mind by: what would happen to me if I stay? You can see the future just by looking at older people and in the church looking at the older members. I saw in older members and in my future little of salvation but continual stories of all who went before falling away. I wondered where was the roll call of the faithful in the modern church as we read about in Hebrews 11. I never heard a story about the life and times of faithful members who died faithful and went to heaven like you read of in Hebrews 11. I had to ask does anyone go to heaven in this church? I see in Proverbs 1:20-33 a pattern for how to do a ministry, you call out to all and offer rewards of wisdom to any who will listen, but when they reject you and you message you leave them behind and go on your journey. In time they might realize their error and call out for you but you have gone on to the next mission field and no one hears their cry. It is similar to the parable of the ten virgins found in Matthew 25:1-13 where Christ was talking about himself and the nation of Israel and how those who spiritually slept by ignoring his call were left out. The church has been given a call to love one another and ignores it in favor of worshiping their leaders and enslaving their members how sad when they finally realize they have missed out on the fellowship of love by ignoring those of us who call to them.
Craig, I asked that, once. When I saw what Tacoma was doing I was looking into other Churches of Christ and there are some that use building, that are not religious buildings, that say, "Church of Christ Meets Here". I asked if there were any others that could be of the truth and was told no, that if they were of the truth they would already be a part of them.
Rejection is an shocking part of the SCOC. A member can be, and many have been, rejected by leadership and persecuted out of the SCOC. Just when a member is rejected is unclear; I have seen members rejected for being stubborn and refusing to submit to leadership, and for unrepented sin. The person who makes the decision is usually a counselor but can be the local teacher as well. You may believe you are a striving Christian but if your local teacher or regional or national leaders say you must be driven out then you are driven out without question or hesitation. It is shocking to find yourself a "reject" of the one true church but it happens all the time.
I’m thankful I’m a reject from Merie’s church. Life hasn’t been better being away from the hypocrisy, lying, gossiping and murmuring that I was often subject too. Life is awesome outside of that oppressive church. All the churches I’ve attended since have put Merie’s church to shame with the preaching, singing (Portland’s singing is horrible), doctrine, fellowship, real Christians and love.
A reject of the nonmember that I am I should add. Something else that is way off with Merie’s church. You think they would look to draw people in and persuade those who disagree with the error of their ways. But as mentioned easier to reject them than contend.
I agree Craig, about how much better life is outside of the group! It was also a little scary at first, but what a relief I felt!! A heavy burden was lifted off of me, and my stomach problems disappeared.
But Anon at 8:59, I would like to clarify something you said, and expound on it a little. I'm hoping you won't take it as criticism directed at you, because that's not what I'm trying to do.
You said one of the reasons the leaders reject a member is for unrepented sin. Sometimes this is true, but what I saw happening the majority of the time was a rejection based on evil surmising by the leader of the group.
For example, my husband and I were soundly and publically rebuked for being late to personal work. The teachers even said they knew why, because we had just moved! They laid it all out for everyone. In the rebuke the teacher mentioned the start time of the personal work meeting, and my husband and I just looked at each other in surprise-we didn't know that the meeting time had been changed! No one had told us!
When we went and told that to the teacher, do you know what he said? "I find that hard to believe!" So now, we were liars too.
He couldn't explain why we were only "late" for personal work-we were still on time for mid-week class and worship, etc. Or the fact that we BOTH didn't know the time had been changed. His explanation of that was that we conspired together to say that, so we were accused of murmuring and threatened with withdrawal too.
After I left, I wondered how many others had been falsely accused of sins too. I know we were often told that ones "fell away" because they wouldn't repent of sin, but now I know that isn't true. I have had quite a few "fallen away" individuals contact me and I have since found out the real reasons they left.
They were also falsely accused of things they didn't say or do, and motives attributed to them that weren't true.
Most rebukes are given out without the teacher even talking to the individual. Or, the individual comes and asks a question or for advice, and things are blown out of proportion.
Eventually the spirit can't deal with it anymore, and people leave. I remember counsel being given to a teacher regarding a particular member-"rebuke her often! Make her seat so hot she can't stand it!" They were trying to drive her out of the church. (I was not a teacher at the time, but the teacher shared this with me).
Interestingly enough, both of those teachers were eventually driven out too!
Thank you Debbie for expanding on this important topic. One of the worst feelings is that no one loves you, or that you are unlovable, or that God does not love you. I freely express how much I love different individuals on this blog to defeat this tactic. Rejection is not without scriptural precedence but I saw that they were throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The love of power obtained through rejection was the center of evil teachers lives, I am so powerful because I can reject others was an attitude I saw at different times. One woman was told "you just a castaway" and told to stop coming. If carried out to the fullest extent possible no one will make it to Heaven, everyone will be rejected at some point. A church with the only members being the teacher or preacher what an accomplishment or what a failure?
Anon, yes it is true that Merie's church uses rejection and making you feel unloved as a weapon. Thankfully in my case I was the one who rejected the sect. But they're still using 2 I love there to reject me and hurt me. It's so sad how they twist scriptures, but that is what religious cults have always done, isn't it?
Debby, I had a situation happen shortly before I left that really gave me insight into how our main preacher JS felt about me. A help was needed to get someone out of a financial situation. Some of us had questions bcs the amount was quite a bit and all of the interested parties were missing from class as well as the main preacher and wife. We were pretty much supposed to approve the funds and then ask questions later. Because I was aware of some history in the situation I felt we needed more info, so My response was considered as not approving it.
Aside from needing more info, I was concerned about how the main preacher just expected us to approve it without questioning it. So that evening I called him to clarify and he began to impugn my character with "that's the problem with you, you are (this type) of person". I cut him off and said I was offended and got back to my questions. Honestly I cut him off bcs I didn't want him to dig that hole any deeper. But it definitely left the impression that another person with a weaker disposition would have just allowed themselves to be talked to like that! And I wondered how many in the past he had "rebuked" like that too.
This is yet another example of the POWER teachers and preachers yield there. They may not be paid for their jobs, but there are some who begin to relish the control they have. So sad.
M. Long and Anon at 5:03:
Yes, that is what the leaders/teachers in the group do-make you feel as though you are not only unloved, but are unlovable! To make you feel there is something seriously wrong with you, so much so that they are the only group that will put up with you.
I can relate, my teacher told me that the problem was "your personality! It's offensive!"
When I talked to him about this, he didn't understand how wrong it was to say that, but he did ask my forgiveness for it. But that's all-I ask your forgiveness for saying it. Period. Nothing about how wrong, or how sorry he was for saying it, or that it wasn't true!
I can't even imagine saying that to someone! Even if you don't like my personality, isn't that a personal thing? Maybe I don't like yours either, yet I'm not going to teach you on it or rebuke you for it! And how vague is that? What am I doing that is offensive-asking questions you don't want to answer?
This same teacher also told me how much he did not like his wife's personality either!
And that was one of my teachers! I can't even imagine saying that about my husband to another person! God grief, then why are you married to her?? And why would you share that with another member who isn't even a teacher?
BTW M. Long, was this JS in the Portland congregation or another?
JS is the navy man previously in Memphis. He came to S.A. about 3 yrs ago or so.
Your example is so similar to that experience of mine. No true asking forgiveness about the actual issue (attacking my character), just that things got out of hand.
Anyone with a questioning personality is going to get reproved there!
Thanks M. Long! The reason I asked was to get clarification. You see, JS is the one that had to come to Lakeland/Tampa to deal with my teacher. One of the things he had to correct my teacher on was saying to me that my personality was offensive! My teacher only made the confession after JS came and talked to him.
So it's ironic that he then turned around and did and said basically the same thing to you! I would not have expected that of him, and it's very disappointing that he did.
But it remains true to the character of the group! JS used to be in Spring Valley, along with the evangelist there. It seems he may be taking on more of his characteristics, which is too bad.
I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. I know it made me cry. But isn't that how it goes? Instead of getting angry, rightfully, we look at ourselves and question ourselves. That self-doubt.
It took me along time to get over and past that. I had to realize that just because someone didn't like me doesn't mean I'm unlovable!
As I was listening to the news this morning and they were talking about all the sexual misconduct in Hollywood from producers,directors who preyed on these women it made me think of the church. It is very similar to how a cult operates….secrets and more secrets. I am believing more and more these little weasels who call themselves teachers and preachers are no better …
One of the scriptural precedents for rejection is the story of Cain and Able. Cain was reproved by God for his unacceptable sacrifice and he in turn killed his brother. This story tells us several important things; number one Proverbs 9:8 reprove not a scorner lest he hate thee. Cain scorned and hated God and took it out on his closest personage: Able. It also tells us how the superiority complex or arrogant person thinks and how the conscience or equity person thinks. Cain thought himself superior even though he had not done the work required of him to please God, this is typical of the arrogant mind they do not like to work because it is beneath them, they should just be given the highest place of honor without earning it. Cain saw his brother Able as his inferior and when Able was exalted above him he killed him. King Saul had the same reaction when the crowds said Saul had killed his thousands but David had killed his ten thousands and Saul hated him from that day forward (1 Samuel 18:7-9) The arrogant can not stand for anyone else to be superior to them, even the thought of it disturbs them greatly. Able following his conscience and treated his brother as an equal had no clue what reaction Cain would have and suspected no evil and did not protect himself and was easily killed. Many in the SCOC have the superiority complex and are peaceable as long as they are in a position of superiority over others, but start reproving them and they get mad, really mad and then to regain their feeling of superiority they take their anger out on unsuspecting innocent people; like their children. I harbor no illusions as I reprove the arrogant they will hate me and will take their anger out on some unsuspecting person who has no clue what is coming. Just like Cain was marked and avoided so too must the reprove take great care to avoid these arrogant Christians.
Anon I can see your point here. Sadly the SCOC thinks they have the market on mark&avoid. But Yes, we can apply it back to them also. I can say I avoid them too. When DS called me twice last week I avoided answering those calls. They seem to think it only works in their favor but it doesn't. We can avoid them just as well! Your comparison to Cain is interesting. He was clearly proud and self-righteous. He worked hard (like they do with works) but was not approved because his heart was not right. The SCOC will say that about others but will not look into their own hearts or even try to find the TRUTH about the system their founder and leader Merie Weiss created.
Debby Stevens October 17, 2017 at 3:31 PM
I know exactly what you are talking about. A preacher, in Tacoma, who has been in since the mid 70's, got told through the grape vine that they did something wrong against me. His confession, if you can call it that, was, "I'm IF I offended you".
There is a great disconnection with what the scriptures teach and what they actually practice.
M Long October 18, 2017 at 4:26 PM
This is exactly the position I took when it was time to leave. I took their sins to them and they brushed it off, I took it to DS, and the Tacoma preacher and his wife discredited me, I took it GP and all but ignored me, I then took it to TC and he supported the congregation and call me a busy body and to get a job. I'm disabled.
I studied and prayed for many years on this and the only conclusion I could come up with was to count them as heathens and publicans and avoid them.
I had to ask myself if I could really get what I needed for the salvation of my soul staying with them.
Titus 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself is the scripture used by the evangelist in Spring Valley to reject people. Subverted being defined as being perverted or corrupted; lacking morals, allegiance, or faith. Something inside the person is wrong so reject them, (if I remember his understanding correctly, if has been over 15 years since I heard this understanding so I may be off a little.) If I am subverted why not teach me the bible and give me morals, allegiance, and faith? I found for myself that most of my troubles come from being double minded. I love God but I love the pleasures of life also. Through my own study and not taught by any living teacher, I came to understand that I was double minded. Everybody I was raised around was double minded as well. Going to Catholic church as a child I saw many Catholics taking the Lord's name in vain and then going to confession on Saturday and then being good on Sunday and back to the cursing again on Monday, I thought living a double life was normal. I came to realize that in my heart I can have only one love and that is Jesus Christ and reject all other loves. The men I looked up to as a child loved work more than they loved God and attended church when work allowed and not the other way around as it should be. Many men would have extra marital affairs and then return to their wives as if nothing wrong had happened. All the examples I saw before becoming a Christian was that you can eat your cake and then have it too, they had it both ways. In reality I finally realized that they were ungodly people and only using religion as a relief for their troubled conscience. Proverbs 4:23 keep thy heart with all diligence and for me this means constant work keeping my heart focused on God by telling myself "nothing else matters" Keeping right with God through obedience to his law in my heart, that is allowing only one love keeps me single minded. I wish I had been taught on double minded-single minded years ago it would have saved me much wasted time, and energy.
They don't know what law is.
To lay a foundation – When my condition was getting worse there were a lot of times I was in so much chronic pain that I didn't want to deal with anybody and I was on such nasty medication that it kept me loopy. People form the church would try to show, and most of the time was to try to convince me to push my flesh. Not help. Well, I asked if people would call first before just showing up on my door step. They didn't want it that way and would do it anyway. No matter how many times I had asked them not to. I said that to make this point – it got to the point to where one of the preachers did a sermon on who was "A man of God". In all of the examples he stated that not letting the brethren show up at you house any day at any time you are not a man of God.
Now, the definition of NOT being a man of God would stand to be defined as one who is in sin. So, what sin was there? Not letting people come over when they felt like it no matter what time of night and we have to accept them? Since there is no law against this they made it a law as a sin is a transgression of some law.
This was brought to both Evangelists and they completely ignored it.
Anon 9:48 if that was the reason the SV guy rejected people he also needs to reject himself. Lol
Lynn that's funny about people just showing up. It rarely happened to us because we live in such a large city in the outskirts that no one is gonna drive all this way without verifying we're home!
But yes they still teach things like don't live in gated communities for that same reason. Funny though if u live in an apartment it's ok if there's a gate and you'll need access to get in. The rules there are silly, but worse than that, those should all be personal decisions that have nothing to do with going to heaven. Yet another way they ADD!
Ok. I read but I'm confused about the gated community. Do not live there because one can't get in to visit? I'm really laughing here. Who thinks up this stuff even if it's for a different reason. Oh dear me!
I love you Paula! xoxoxoxoxoxox!
The preacher from the south, CS, stated that he had people following him home after mid week class to visit and actions like this should be allowed.
They put more emphasis on unlawful things like this rather than the consideration you should have for each other. So, what you want to impose on other members is more protected than the personal wishes of the members and if you don't then you are unloving and in sin.
Also, it was stated by a seasoned preacher, "why wouldn't you have it so?". Meaning that why wouldn't you have it that way in which other members can impose their will on you.
For those not familiar with Merie's group, what Lynn is saying may be difficult to believe. But it's true.
If ones came to see you at your home, especially teachers, you had better answer your door and let them in. If not, they will expect (demand) an answer as to why you weren't home. If you don't answer your phone, it's the same thing. You had better have a good reason why you weren't at home, and if they left a message you had better call them back.
It was the same thing when another member would call you to "ask" you to babysit their children when they needed to go and do something (i.e. doctor's appointment, etc.). You had better answer the phone and you had better say yes. Otherwise, you were talked to and then rebuked.
You were never "free". It was an expected obligation. If they asked you where you had been, you were expected to give an answer too! If you declined to give an answer, you were then considered to have been out doing something "wrong". (The group does an awful lot of evil surmising).
It took me years to get past all of that-even after I left the group. It was so ingrained into me that every time someone knocked on my door, I felt obligated to answer it. The same for when my phone would ring, I felt I had to answer it.
Now I realize how intrusive that is. Especially when I didn't invite that someone to my home, or to call me. They are the ones being rude, not I! And even if I do know that person at my door, I am not under any obligation to answer it. It doesn't matter the reason.
Lynn, thank you for writing this. I had forgotten about it! This is one of the things I still have to fight within me, to deal with!
Sounds awful! I could not live that way at all.
Evil surmising plays a huge part in their "counseling". If they have partial information and/or don't understand a situation that can be surmised one way or the other they almost always choose the negative way.
One of the Evan. evil surmised something right in front of me. Over second hand information he chose to pick the negative way and labeled it as sin.
Now you have these fictitious sins out there birthed from evil surmising. This sets an almost unlivable tone in the congregation among your own brethren.
There is a saying that the religious world uses that I heard one of the Evangelists say in a talk.
"Only Christians shoot their wounded."
If this is a well know practice in the churches, then why is it still prevalent? This practice is in their faces and they still justify it, blow it off, and/or make the victim be at fault.
What if you were getting phone calls while having sex with your non-member husband? How do you handle that one? Yes this happened to us several times. Want to know how we handled it Paula? Oh!, you already got that from your Inquisition. How embarrassing for her and how infuriating for me, and how satisfying for GP & PP. They were in our bed an awful lot. These are demented, evil, degrading leaders. Their followers are lost in illusions of their own ignorance. I don't believe the Bible is what most claim it to be, but even the Bible warns against "false"people such as GP & PP. It Is hard to say that I too was taken for many years, to allow their intrusion into our life. But as others have said, it is a style of control, that encourages fear. I'm not that easily frightened by words that cannot be explained. The followers are following LIES, that is why they can not be explained. Early on I did not realize what was happening. I do not know the Bible! But yet when the Rules of this cult, conflicted with what I understood, I knew this was not Truth.
They are despicable people and They Shall Reap What They Sow, as they have here.
There are many warnings in the Bible about these kinds of people. And finally victims are giving voice to stop their evilness. Courage and Conviction and most of all Education Those are what is necessary to end their terror of innocent souls.
kevin, really this is allowed on your site.??
Luke 6:45 "for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh." People whose verbal conversation is sexually centered are sexually centered in their hearts and minds, they are constantly calling attention to sexually related topics. I had to endure under a sexually centered teacher for two and a half years, he was constantly calling everything a fruit of masturbation, or talking about other men having wet dreams, or questioning members if they themselves were having wet dreams, or if they were touching themselves, he was unclean in his mind and it showed in his constant attention to all things sexual. 1 Corinthians 7:9 "but if they cannot contain let them marry" this scripture can be applied in many ways but when people are unable to contain their sexuality the should marry. People who can not contain their sexuality are like a leaky container it comes out in little ways. People call attention to sexually relate topics in many ways, some drop hints about it, some outright brag about it, and some express hatred about sexuality but all they that call public attention to sexuality are unclean in their hearts and minds, because sex is a private matter and not to be profaned; that is, made public. The false teaching in Phoenix that "as Christian women we do not allow boys to hold themselves when they urinate because the scripture says touch not the unclean thing" came from an unclean mind being a sexually centered teaching. The interpretation of scriptures to apply to sexual rules where they do not exist is a clear sign of an unclean mind. When teaching is anti sexual it is a deception used by the unclean mind, look I am protecting the flock by calling attention to the evils of all things sexual but secretly they are obsessed with sex, just like many in the catholic church. So I found many times in the SCOC the teachers were unclean in their hearts and minds and it is easily identified by the dominance of sexually related discussions coming from the leaders and they tried to justify their teaching with angry rebukes like "who are you to question my authority!" Angrily defending ones authority to cover an unclean mind is a thin disguise, everyone can see through it. The opposite is a person who practices self control of the desires in the mind and it comes out as self control in public area's of life, that is people with self control have boundaries in their mind, and boundaries in public this is called public decency. Next time someone wants to call attention to a sexually related topic publicly; reject them as being unclean in their hearts and minds.
Members of Merie’s church should be utterly disgusted and disturbed if they are reading this blog and it’s comments. Embarrassed from head to toe to be a part of something so deplorable. I hope every member gets to read this blog and follow your conscience afterwards. Absolutely no good conscience could continue in this sham that claims to be the one and only true church.
Uncleanness has many forms but the results are the same to those who listen to the unclean, they become sexualized. We are "holier than thou" because we are anti sexual is a deception. Those who teach self control should be an example of self control and be desexualized in their conversations and teachings. To everything there is a time a place and those teachers who take sexual matters out of their appropriate time and place should be shunned at the least, and perhaps be identified and rejected as false teachers.
Anon 12:33 who do you think put this that mindset in the young members minds at the time? Easy guess for me would be Merie Weiss who obviously had a screw or two loose upstairs in her mind. If you read about the mindset of John Harvey Kellogg it makes you wonder if Merie followed some of his wicked and wierd ways. The entire Merie church must be rejected for its false ways. They are off as off can get. Very sickening that they are so deceived in what they believe in. True workers of Satan they are.
The SCOC is quick to label someone as unclean and the reject them. While it is true that uncleanness, that is, being sexualized, in all of its forms, is not a good thing, there was no understanding on how to desexualize yourself or another person like one of your children. Solomon said in Proverbs 26:20 where no wood is the fire goeth out, and I find that when a person stops willing exposing themselves to sexual environments, like tv, movies, magazines, and worse, the sexual desires decrease to normal. I left a sexualized church although it claimed to be anti uncleanness yet through its constant talk about uncleanness it sexualized its own members. After leaving and desexualizing myself it stands out very clearly just how sexualized, or unclean, many in leadership were. A little leaven leavens the whole lump and a lack of self control in one area leads to a lack of self control in all other area's of the mind. I find many sexualized people are also alcoholics, they tell me that they don't know when to stop drinking, they have no self imposed limits; they have lost their temperance. I saw lack of temperance in many; in one area it was over eating to the point of being morbidly obese and no teaching went out on gluttony, another area was in railing, that is angrily yelling, at members from the pulpit for two hours non stop and sometimes longer on a regular basis. Another area of lack of self control was in micromanaging members lives to the point of oppression. The root of the tree of excess behaviors is a lack of self control in the mind. Today I encounter sexualized people on a regular basis and I quickly identify them as unclean and ignore or reject them having no desire to be sexualized myself. Normal feels so good, decency is a blessing that i am not willing to give up having strove so hard to receive it.
Kevin! How dare you allow sex to be spoken of on your blog?!!! It's not like Merie's church ever talked about it! Seriously, whoever left that comment is joking or literally deaf to what is taught in Merie's church. Just this last year my kids came home laughing n giggling about a member's confession of having SEX in the parking lot of a shop on the same block as the Church building.. during class time! KIDS had to hear all the crass details! How many classes mention p*rn, masturbation, etc. IN DETAIL ? How many confessions and withdrawals are TOO specific with children sitting right there made to listen because everyone has to be in the room for those things? How many children have had to hear their own parents make these confessions? How many of us had our opinions affected about someone we cared about? How is making all this stuff public good for keeping our children innocent? Isn't it obvious that it instead creates a curiosity in them?
So anon who asked that question to Kevin, can u please answer mine???
Anon 10/21 at 8:51AM – Hypocrite! The SCOC violates children's ears constantly by their sexualized interrogations of parents in homes or in front of entire congregations filled with little ones! Parents who should be immediately standing up and stopping these wicked leaders that are exposing their children to sexualized content instead sit in fear with glazed looks on their faces with broken spirits and don’t say a word.I agree that a great sign of perverted leaders is when their entire focus is on sex- that's a cult. They are a sick group.So KF said sex was interrupted by mandatory phone calls- that is too much for your pure mind and ears?Get real 8:51AM,I’m not buying it and no one else is either.
I may be "unclean" but these leaders are Filthy. They are addicted to inflicting emotional pain upon their followers through public and private degrading sessions. Listen I can attest to the incredible transition my family went through by these charlatans and deceivers.
Here's one more real life experience. I , my ex CF, GP and PP all met in my home to discuss the matter of my then wife resisting sex with her husband. Yes, your are hearing this. GP & PP personally visited with me to discuss SEX. They already formed their opinion of me years before. But because I was threatening to leave my ex they got worried about how they could still extract donations from her without my support. So there I was getting permission from GP & PP to have sex with my wife. Let that sink in.
Do you remember that evening Anonymous Paula at what ever time you post? Bet those donations tightened up quite a bit since our divorce. Warning Craig!! You don't want to get to that point of your wife getting permission to have sex. That momment is still so surreal to have experienced. It was soon after that we separated and the a few years later we divorced. What causes divorce? Problems with Money, Sex and Love.
We had plenty money. The SCOC took away the Sex and the Love. I am so much happier now without their intrusion in my life. Oh!, and those things GP & PP took from my life. I got them back with someone whose not ashamed of sex and not confused about love.
What you have experienced is called psychological domination and not Christianity. You have been bullied into obedience through strong psychological methods. Public humiliation and the fear of public humiliation keeps many quiet about abuses; that is why an outside point of reference (like this blog) is always necessary to point out when leaders exceed and abuse their authority. The invasion of privacy and removal of all privacy boundaries is done to control members through guilt of having their secrets exposed; this is called milieu control.(milieu being a persons social environment). A look at groups who control their members sex lives reveals just how bad the future will be: Jim Jones, David Koresh, Charlie Manson, Marshall Applewhite, and many others. Cults can be sex positive that is it is okay for any member to have sex with anyone else in or out of the group, (including children like in David Bergs children of God cult) or a cult can be sex negative that is no one can have sex except the leader, such as David Koresh in his Branch Davidians cult, or it can be no sex at all like Marshall Applewhite and his solar temple cult where members chose castration to stop themselves from having sex altogether. When a group reaches the level of psychological domination to be able to control the sex lives of its members(pro sex, anti sex, no sex) not much else is left out of their control including demanding members commit suicide on the orders of the leader. Christianity teaches basic principles which require a person to practice self control in order to follow them but the cult leader perverts this by teaching just follow me and self control is replaced with leader or group control of the individual. Many members have no understanding of why they do what they do but simply obey they teacher, they are ignorant followers. A deep understanding of virtue and its blessings and an equally deep understanding of vice and its consequences is missing in the SCOC; members simply obey the teachers they are ignorant followers. A study of arrogance reveals the behaviors of domination and control which are used on followers to not only control them but to exalt the leader over the group. The current leaders show some but not all the behaviors of a psychological domination of its members but they are aged and the next generation of leaders is what should cause many great concern: will the next leaders be better or worse? I have learned to set healthy boundaries and can tell others "that is no of your business and I am offended that you would even ask about such a private matter" this stops the toxic relationship of master/slave from forming. Stop being controlled by someone else and control your own life.
M. Long you have a strong and valid point. The problem boils down to no elders to hear and take care of public/private problems with wisdom and skill. That kind of teaching and method has been practiced since the Stanton churhes have existed. I'll admit to you I am surprised it is still happening concerning masturbation etc. I thought that was modified at the first Texas May trip a long time ago.
There is a song called “That would be the day” comes to mind reading all the sick ways of this so called church. “That would be the day”
anyone in there right mind would let their children listen to all this especially when the word of the day seemed to be “discreet”How many times have we heard the word “discreet” with this crazy cult. Funny thing but the kids as they grow a bit older into teens figure it all out on their own and leave. Thank goodness….get out those of you that are reading this blog. I know some of you have fears but if you truly
love and believe in God and his Grace and Trust Him your fear will be gone.
Anon 822, yup, even as I was writing that I thought how elders are beneficial in these private areas where maybe some advice might be needed PRIVATELY. Our elders told us that even their wives don't know a lot of what we discuss (wasn't about marriage anyway). But truly I am thankful to have found a place with strong Godly men as elders. It's amazing how I believed the SCOC and that no one was worthy yet! Imagine, not one worthy elder in the last 50 years on this entire earth! That is what Merie would have us believe. That woman who so completely usurped the authority of all men!
But as far as masturbation/ uncleanness that's all still taught. I am in Texas and never heard that it shouldn't and unless it was even worse, I guess not much has changed. It's not going to change either with the current system and preachers who have been around for decades and have a difficult time with change. They'd rather have the rest of us change to become like them and Merie.
Another disturbing practice that needs to be addressed is "breaking a persons spirit." I was told by the tow truck preacher that the evangelist had ordered him to break my spirit. He used the scripture in Proverbs 15:13 "but by the sorrow of heart the spirit is broken." He then proceeded to try and break my spirit with "persecution" which was just constant criticism and angry railing about everything I said or did. What kind of religions "break someone's spirit?": cults. The tow truck preacher was an incredible oppressor but not invincible. I watched the other men who did submit to his bullying and then watch as they neglected everything else in their lives to keep the tow truck preacher happy. I watched men neglect themselves, their responsibilities on the job, and the responsibility to provide for their families. Submit to the tow truck preach and slowly be consumed by his overbearing demands or resist the evil preacher and save yourself and your family? I chose to resist the evil preacher but still wonder how much of his abuse was from himself or directed by higher ups in the SCOC. A simple internet search on how to break someones spirit will enlighten a person to the unscriptural and dangerous methods used on members of the SCOC to get them into "subjection to leadership."
This just isn't right and it isn't just in your congregation. Breaking people down is NOT the purpose of the church.
2 Corinthians 1:6-7 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.
We are supposed to be here for each other. It's hard enough to make our changes and stands then to have leaders in the church to impose their wills on use. They do this to get you in line. I, for one refused to conform and the preacher from the south CS said in open class that he is through with me.
Instead of helping people the distant them. I went to counsel with CS over a matter of my nonmember wife not being in subjection over certain matters and his counsel to me was to leave her. Really?
I quit counseling with them and they hated that. Looks like they believe that people should always be at their feet looking for their direction in their Christian walk and if you aren't then you aren't living your Christianity. What truly hurt them is that I heavily studied my bible and knew what they were doing was wrong and didn't need their pseudo counseling.
Usually you will see oppressors trying to break their prey rather than lead then through knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. It takes more time, effort, and work to teach people and lead them in the right way than to just beat it into them through fear and intimidation.
They are following a pattern many others have taken to the point of destruction. Psychological domination of others to their own self aggrandizement. Leave your wife over minor issues? What scripture teaches that? In time you will realize as I have (and many others have as well) that they are not following the scriptures but they do use them as bait upon a hook to gain new members and then abandon the scriptures and replace them with their "judgments" instead. David Koresh had memorized the new testament and was able to dazzle and then deceive new members who had no knowledge or experience with religion and its functions in a humans life. Trusting someone who has more knowledge of the bible than you is a foolish decision, you must look at their life example before they can be trusted, Satan after all knows the scriptures as evidence in his temptation of Christ. People seeks God through religion for several reasons: In times of difficulty and emotional pain such as fear, anxiety, loneliness, bad news, conflict, end of life, disconnected relationships, change, loss, discouragement, sadness, anger, death. People also seek God through religion in times of searching and struggling such as feeling powerless, the meaning of life, community support, suffering and pain, doubt, out of control behavior, inner peace, faith and hope, letting go, and self esteem. People also seek God through religion in times of celebration such as birth of a child, successful surgery, answered prayers, and gratefulness. A minister of God should be trained and experienced in all of these area's to provide spiritual guidance to its members. The SCOC does few if any of these ministries but rather engage in self aggrandizement of its founder, Merie Weiss, and its current leaders and neglects the spiritual needs of its members. Leaders are not trained in any kind of professional counseling and as a result are free to give bad advice to members they do not love and have been ordered to reject. Professional counselors in the area's of marriage counseling, addiction counseling, financial counseling, grief counseling or any other professional counseling are held to professional standards and can be sued for bad or harmful advice. The SCOC gives bad advice but has never been held accountable for it having no professional training or standards to uphold. When compared to a full service church with professionally trained preachers and counselors the SCOC comes up wanting.
Anon 1:32 Very well said. I can't understand how they don't have the mentality to see all of what they do to people. They will deny such things when this type of stuff is brought up to them. I have seen it. They know what they are doing to members.
Lynn truth of the matter as the theme in Portland towards the last couple or do years of attending was just keep talking, keep talking to the so called counselors anyways. Yes not counseling would be talked about so you felt pressure to counsel though the ones counseling you figured out were not worthy to counsel. Total joke. Purpose of all this is for the counselors to know your business plane and simple. Busybodies they are.
Anon October 24, 2017 at 1:32 PM
I know they are not following the scriptures. I took it to almost getting "withdrawn" from questioning their counsel and tactics. I told CS that scripture and example are not the same things there.
They are resting on people not having any knowledge. CS said in a sermon that he knows that people there were not studying, but I was and grew very fast there and became a threat. The best way to deal with me was to discredit me and eventually drive me out.
One of the female teachers that left us to help back east gave me some very sound council in that she said, "You have the bible, the HS, and know the difference between right and wrong". From then I knew I had to stand on my own two feet regardless of what bad teaching and/or council I got. I'm the one who is going to stand before God and give answer to what I do/did in this life.
What's interesting is the CS's wife said in a class that we are better than worldly counselors as we have the bible. In trying to get disability for chronic pain the spine center to me to go see a counselor and PC told me to go ahead and go. This is what a Tacoma preacher murmured against. How can anyone follow this type teaching?
Craig – I agree. A lot of the things you go to council with them about winds up getting used against you.
I know from Proverbs 1:20-33 how a wise minister behaves. You go out and spread the gospel of salvation everywhere and most will reject or ignore the call and then you in turn reject them and move on. In time when calamity comes like the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 many of the then elderly Jews would be seeking for the man Christ but would not find him and perish but the elect would be saved by God. I know rejection is part of wisdom. What I saw however was people who heard the call and obeyed in the waters of baptism and then without warning were rejected in as short as four days, or a few weeks, or months. The people who were rejected were coming to everything but the teaching preacher would just decide you were bad fruit and reject you without warning or recourse. Not wise to reject the sincerely seeking from the house of God; this would anger God a little bit. I saw premature rejection of sincere people because it was easier to reject them than to do the hard work of teaching with a patient spirit, the proud in spirit have no patience and expect instant results.
Marx's theory of alienation basically states that people will do just about anything to avoid being ostracized or ridiculed; that is alienated. Is this what the evangelist in Spring Valley means when he says "there are certain things people can't stand?" Does this identify the communist teaching Merie supposedly adopted? How members are treated differs greatly even when the same sin is being taught against, some for uncleaness were withdrawn from for years and others for just five weeks, why the difference? Why are some members alienated and others not? Does equality exist in judgment of is it based upon favoritism that is those whom leadership likes(and can profit off of)? Question why you are judged so harshly or so leniently, just whose doctrine are you following after all?
Lynn I pra y
you have found a healthy church and are no longer involved with SCOC . I understand chronic pain while many people have no patience for it and do not understand.
It would be interesting to compile a list of where Merie’s church adds and takes away from the words of the Bible.
Craig, the list is so big and the examples so much that an entire blog is dedicated to it. 😉
M Long, you are correct.
Debbie, why did you become a teacher of a church that you knew what wrong?
Anon 1:14 Debby already answered that question above on Oct 15. It's like asking any of us why we stayed. I'm not sure if you are still in or not, but if you are, if you are here it's likely that you are doubting certain things but aren't sure that you'll find God anywhere else, thanks to the cult brainwashing you.
For example there was one family member (sort of, by ex) whose baptism I questioned. He had been withdrawn from but I was very concerned because just about everyone in the family shunned him. I told his sisters to connect with him and maybe bring up the baptism question with the teachers. The situation only got worse and I fear he is truly lost now. But I went against my conscience in also staying disconnected from him (not that he looked for me, but looking back I still wish I had made it known I was there for him), and my conscience began to become seared. If you are still in, your conscience is being seared because if you truly listened to it 100% of the time, you wouldn't go along with all the decisions and divisions that place CREATES.
I suggest you read this blog more to find the different ways so many of us continued to stay after we began to suspect wrongs. It's actually such a human response that it is present across cults and even other organizations. Another suggestion I have is to watch Leah Reminis A&E show Scientology and the Aftermath. Many there also stayed past when they suspected of wrongs and finally left at whatever their breaking point is.
I'm curious Anon, what was YOUR breaking point? Or are you still in?
Anon at 1:14 PM: I wasn't a teacher when I knew things were wrong. As I started to see things I tried to deal with them, but as they got worse I realized I couldn't teach those things. So I stepped (not sat) down, and the couple that was sent from Memphis took over 100%. It was what they wanted to do, as the preacher/teacher and I didn't see eye to eye on things. And he was upset that I understood things differently than he did. To him, EVERYTHING was black and white. And EVERYTHING had to be dealt with IMMEDIATLEY.
When I was made a teacher, I didn't know the group was wrong. It took becoming a teacher and seeing how things were handled and the lack of understanding leaders had that made me START to open my eyes.
I wasn't a teacher for very long, not even a year.
Hope that answers your question!
Anon Oct 3rd @ 1:05 interesting concerning the leaders of Merie’s church to admit that the Des Moines decision to mark and avoid was wrong and that withdrawal should’ve been the decision. These are people who claim they have the Holy Spirit. Yet how off they were with that decision and how off they are with many more. Total lack of judgement. They have other poor decisions they need to reconcile as well. Let’s start by the way they treat people members or not who disagree with them. I always believed mark and avoid was withdrawal after studying the topic.
All I can say I am very proud of my son and the fact he left the church and was not withdrawn. He is like my son again reconnecting with his family and friends. He still is compassionate and kind and has such nice manners and has grown since worshipping elsewhere. My prayer the rest of the family will follow and I know God knows about everything and good will come from all of this someday. Keep the faith! Life is good!
Members become entirely dependent upon the preachers and teachers for their social and emotional life. With all outside associations discouraged as "worldly" a new member quickly becomes disassociated from family, friends, and the world. When all outside contact been discouraged and the member is in isolation except for the SCOC there is no social reference to point out abuse. The abuse starts quickly and is taught this is normal behavior, but if you are wise as a new member you will maintain relationships with family as least(and this must be maintained is silence) to give you perspective on abuse. Without an outside social point of reference you will believe abuse to be both normal and acceptable.
We were blessed with lots of activities and dinners with us and family nearby over the years watching and being with our grandchildren.
Sounds so much like Church of Scientology only on a smaller scale and doubt these leaders/teachers are half as intelligent as they think they are to behave like this to their brethren. So sad to read how these deceived people stay in the cults and what happens to their family members who do get out. Shunning over this person but not that person makes no sense to me or others who know about this cult. What I am doing is printing information about this blog and hopefully as one person reads the outsiders as we are called will pass it on….get the word out….ask questions and be alert
Yes concerned outsider totalitarian groups (like communism, Scientology, and many other cults large and small) use similar methods. I always wondered how they manipulate and deceive others who are well educated and emotionally balanced. There is a method to their madness, The tactics of a totalitarian groups are subtle but knowable. The four keys to manipulation are; #1 redefining words #2 redirecting #3 consensus building #4 marketing. #3 consensus building is group think. An unethical consensus is dependent upon group think, which in turn is dependent upon maintaining peer pressure, or a mob mentality. What happens to people who object to the leaders abusive doctrine? They are singled out and ridiculed, publicly ostracized, alienated from the group. After this happens no one else will raise an objection even though they feel something is wrong, they become sheeple afraid to say anything for fear of also being alienated from the group. The SCOC does this regularly to dissent members. It is a tactic that can be identified and countered. They may be strong but they are not invincible to the truth.
Sounds exactly what is happening ! I am able to continue seeing my family that is still inside and what are your suggestions how to cope with this when two are out and three are in plus one in law?
Where to start? Get the book by Combating cult mind control by Steve Hassan. He was a Jewish kids raised in Manhattan and was recruited into the moonies and he explains how he was influenced and how he was deprogrammed. It is an excellent starting point to understand what is going on inside the minds of your family members and how to gently approach them. Most members are recruited used and then rejected when they question church authority so be patient they may just deprogram themselves when they tire of the abuse.
I would like to point out as well Jo that new recruits are seduced into the different cult groups in similar ways. Cult leaders seduce their followers with promises of a utopian life, secret understandings given in reward for service to the leader, empathetic resonance and healing empathy. What the new member gets is little if nothing of what is promised. Christ promised his followers nothing of the sort on this earth but gave a stark reality of a life of poverty, persecution from religious leaders, and a martyrs death to the Apostles for faithfully following his teachings. It is suffering that divides the sheep from the wolves. The sheep begin to reflect upon their own suffering, its meaning and possible reason. This results in spiritual growth from the experiences of suffering. Wolves on the other hand grow only in rage at their own suffering and in every attempt to alleviate their rage they sadisticly inflict suffering on others. My first teacher was a wolf in sheep clothing he was friendly at first but quickly started despising and hating new members, most left quickly and those that remain were enslaved to him out of fear of his anger, he was a cult leader in the Church of Christ. You relatives are suffering and you can help by giving reasons for why we go through suffering in this life.
The 'Tow Truck Preacher' was a large part of why I left the group, because although we were in different congregations, I encountered him often enough to see that he was an evil person who somehow was held in high esteem by the power-brokers in the SCOC. He seemed to enjoy demeaning one young man who was sent to him from the Stanton congregation, and who was one thousands times the man he was — the young acolyte was kind, soft-spoken, intelligent, thoughtful, and had made a meaningful sacrifice by giving up a potentially-lucrative chance to become a pro football player. But Tow-Truck treated him like a manservant, and then appeared to revel in the young man's downfall during a talk he gave at a meeting in Oxnard. I finally was forced to conclude that Tow-Truck was either a borderline sociopath, or an actual sociopath, based on his unrelentingly oppressive, sadistic, and cruel behavior toward "his brethren." At another meeting, I saw him commit, what in hindsight, amounted to fraud against the U.S. government, but he did it so cavalierly and blithely, that I just sirtof shook my head, and went on with my day. He is a vile and wretched human being.
Anon 3:00 wow wow unbelievable and this is one of there good men who was labeled basically the brotherhoods most available to go start of help other congregations. What a joke. Very troubling.
The tow truck preacher is indeed a terrible person and best avoided. I am amazed that with his harsh and even cruel treatment of members there was not a suicide. The worst thing he taught us is that oppression is Christianity and after he departed Phoenix members started oppressing the children first and then each other as well. The not NFL man was brought down to Phoenix and sat down for oppressing his wife, which he thought was normal after being under the tow truck preacher in Prescott. I watched the tow truck preacher one night in his house on Avalon yelling into the phone at one of the Chavez girls "MY WIFE DOES NOT WANT TO TALK TO YOU, NOW WHAT DO YOU WANT!". In psychology this is called reducing someone to nothing. In the military basic training they reduce the men down to nothing then build them up again into what the army wants them to be :soldiers. The tow truck preacher could reduce you down to nothing but did not try and build anyone up again, he was just sadistic that is he enjoyed hurting others. He was loved by the national leaders because of his appeal to their ego. He flattered them by being one of their willing followers never questioning their teaching or behavior, he was a groupie. Few can resist the appeal to the ego, Eve could not, Solomon could not, but Christ could. When Satan appealed to his ego by say "if" thou be the son of God, Christ did not respond by asserting who he was he rather referred back to God's authority in the scriptures; he refuted Satan's challenge to prove himself. If you agree to prove yourself onetime you are forever having to prove yourself to your adversary, pride is a great weakness. Christ is the man to follow and learn all of his strengths to defeat Satan and those who personify Satan.
How many are in this church/cult in Arizona? How is it allowed to even be open? It sounds as if Satan has won over the church/cult and it is a den of evil.
I don't know current membership numbers but it is open and like any other place under the freedom of religion you can believe whatever you want, even if it is harmful to the individual. The tow truck preacher like many narcissist's consider themselves above the law, both the laws of the land and God's law. As his narcissism grew so did his egregious behavior to the point where it became malignant. His tow truck operation ran a foul of the highway patrol and he was threatened with arrest for breaking what he called "technicalities". In the tow business a tow company is required to do all types of tows to qualify for the police contract, like having certified divers to go into lakes to pull car out, hazmat training, first aid training so to compensate the tow companies for expenses they are given area's to service and do both the easy and difficult tows. The tow truck preacher was coming into another companies area and taking the easy tows which would anger the owners who had laid out several thousands of dollars to qualify for the police contract. The laws of the land did not apply to him. In his preaching he demanded that members study the Bible but he did not rather he studied every other religious book he could find and presented that to the congregation as his own understanding, he seemed to have understanding until you presented his understandings to other teachers and they quickly corrected you. Example: 2 Timothy 1:15 all they of Asia have turned against me tow truck preacher said that means that all the churches in Asia fell away but other teaches said that is not correct. In Revelations 2:13 Where Satan's seat is means that Satan is in the church, and it is one of the brethren; other teacher said no this understanding is incorrect. Again the commandment to study the Bible did not apply to him. I am really surprised he has not gone out and started his own religion and tried to draw others after him. His malignant narcissism puts him on the same level as Jim Jones, David Koresh, Marshal Applewhite and other nefarious cult leaders. All we can do until he breaks the law is spread the word about him and hope others avoid him.
Anon 9:59 due to little to no growth in Merie’s church a large congregation may have 75 members not including children. There are only a handful of there larger churches. I’m guessing Phoenix may be up towards that number of 75 probably less. Prescott Valley would not even be half of that number maybe even a third. 50 years no growth, no elders, no leadership a DEAD church.
Who would want to stay in a dead church where sermons are stale and the congregation just going through the motions and getting through the day. Instead being fed by The Holy Spirit and congregation with real love and joy in their hearts even though some going through trials. I take the later.
Psychology explains it. The fear of loss is greater than the hope of gain. Members are recruited with the promise of salvation and deeper understandings of the scriptures but are held in by the fear of leaving and losing your mind or going to Hell. Who in their right minds would want to willing go to Hell and so many stay hoping it will get better someday. You can neutralize this fear by simply asking: who in this church has died faithful and gone to heaven? If no one inside the church is going to heaven according to teachings of the leaders and everyone who leaves or is outside the church is also going to hell then why stay? If the church would give a hope of Heaven many more would stay and endure the required suffering but why stay if there is no reward for our suffering? The one thing the leadership has excelled at is in the condemnation of just about everybody except leadership. The depth of God's love is immeasurable and it can be found in the studies of the scriptures in the example of Jesus Christ. Jesus laid down a path of equality everyone: all who labor get a reward if you labor much or little, all get a reward. How far from the scriptural example of Jesus is the SCOC.
Yes Merie’s church is spiritually dead. In her own words it’s a dead church. Makes me wonder when the current four move on who will replace them. Obviously Merie had know one to replace her. The four current all have had health issues even recently seeing a picture of the main lady teacher with another whom had a stroke. She did not look well maybe the stress of keeping this false chuch a float is taking a toll on the four. I’ve done some research on how to get Merie’s church on a cult watch list. Hopefully this will alert proper authorities about them as well. Does anyone else have any ideas?? Hoping the one who had the stroke has a speedy recovery much respect to them.
Matthew 13:33 teaches us that the kingdom of God is like unto leaven hidden in three measures of meal until the whole was leaven. What this teaches us is that what you do in one small area of your life will spread to every area of your life. If you study the Bible, even a little bit, you will then start studying in every other area of life as well. If you allow laziness in one small area of life it will spread to every area of life, if you practice the commandments in one small area of life you will start doing them in every area of life. Luke 6:45 teaches us the tree is know by its fruit, if a tree has only one apple it is an apple tree, if you put church in for tree and teachings in for fruit you get a church is known by its teachings a false church has false teachings, even if allows only one false teaching; a true church has true teachings, even if it is only has one true teaching (like Jesus Christ is the son of God and no one else.) By the time you see the fruit the tree has already taken root and grown, start your church within yourself. Start with daily study of the Bible, then practice the commandments in your own life, then love others. It takes time for a good tree to grow so the sooner one starts the better. Let the dead bury the dead, that is let the dying church die on its own but let us go forth and preach the gospel and spread the good fruits of God to others.
It was such a beautiful lesson this Lord's day on hidden beliefs. People come to church but struggle in their spiritual development, for some unknown reason people can have a faith in Jesus but not grow. By studying human behavior you can figure out what a person does or does not believe. Being raised with several older brothers I was bullied growing up and I developed a belief of "you can't win". The bullies likes a weak victim and so bullies discourage the person into becoming their willing victim. You learn in time that bullies are not invincible and in fact you can win, if you are willing to fight them. In Christianity you can defeat the oppressors and win without violence just using words. By exposing just how wicked people are before the church you are setting a judgement that this wicked person is not to be trusted under any circumstance. I used to get frustrated with bullies until I found that exposing their harsh behavior got them warned about creating hostile work environment, and even dismissed, you can win you just have to learn how to fight righteously, that is with the truth of God's word compared to their behavior.
One of the hidden beliefs that the SCOC put into me is self criticism. I was constantly criticized until I picked up the habit of self criticism. The SCOC teaches you things without you realizing that you have been taught, their methods are insidious. You can stop the creep by asking if their is a scriptural reason or scriptural example of self criticism and if none then stop the habit and enjoy your life with God doing the leading and reproving and not self.
In my time in the SCOC I was taught by example that arrogance is righteousness. The domination and controlling of others is what the church leaders did. I wondered where can I find an example of a man who walks after his conscience (or woman) to study. I found in Kind David a man who walked after his conscience and shared his thoughts and highs and lows of life in the book of psalms. David in the psalms spoke of equity time and time again. To the evil doers he asked God to punish them and remove them, this is equal, fair, just. If you choose to do evil you should be punished appropriately. David also blessed God many different times and gave God the credit for all of the times which he saved him, David received blessings from God and in return he publicly thanked him this is equity. Where does God's mercy come into play in equity? Those that show signs or fruits worthy of repentance receive mercy; those who do not repent receive no mercy. The catholic church taught me that everybody is worthy of mercy and we are not to condemn anyone no matter how evil they are and I should feel guilty for thinking the evil doers should be punished. The Catholics taught falsely and for me I have to be obedient to God or suffer the consequences. I feel no guilt today in saying the wicked should be punished, for they have chosen their path in life, that is one without God. Equity is a great virtue to obtain.
If, as the saying goes, watch what people do more than what they say, I always found it interesting that during my time in the SCOC cult, many, if not most, of the young female baptized members, would find ways to marry men outside of the fold. Although there seemed to be no shortage of eligible young single men, outside of the members who had known and had crushes on each other since they were children, the young women would invite the non-member men they were interested in marrying to a few classes or worship services, the men would be baptized, and then within months, they would be married. And almost as predictably, the men would lose interest in the church life, and would go back to their former lives, only now they had wives whom they wouldn’t see on Monday evenings because of personal work, on Tuesday evening because of bible class, on Wednesday evenings because of more personal work, on Thursdays because of non-member class, on many Friday mornings or evenings because of various fellowships and meetings and/or women’s classes, and of course all day Sunday. I remember thinking to myself back then, “are they intentionally fooling each other, themselves, or both?”
Marriage was not esteemed in the SCOC, I saw in many different ways how it was corrupted. I saw spouses turned into spy's for the teacher against their spouse and marriages broken up due to a lack of trust. I saw men ignore their wives and children and spend every possible moment of free time being groupie to the teaching preacher. I saw wives murmuring against their husbands in women class and it was not discouraged. I had to sit through a bible class where a couple was being publicly questioned about having a defiled marriage bed and I was not really interested in hearing about other people's sex lives being a single person. Marriage is just another area to be dominated and controlled by church leaders. I saw the teaching preacher bring out in Bible class questions asked in private about proper times for sex. There was no discretion, no decency, whatever information was obtained by teachers and preachers privately was fair game to be used as ammunition in Bible class to "reprove" a unwanted member. With the history of corrupted marriages and making public the sex lives of married members it is a wonder why anyone raised in the church would want to get married in the church.
It is hard to even try to explain what is going on in this cult because most people cannot understand why ANYONE would put up with it. The people outside of this cult can’t believe the things they are reading on this blog but trust me it is true. So keep reading and keep encourage others to read it even if they are still attending. God will not strike anyone dead for reading and passing this on.
Yes just how far can a church go "off?" I finally came to the understanding that the tree (church) that I was a part of was unclean, from the teaching preacher on down to the lowest member. Being part of a sexualized church is not an enjoyable place to be. Uncleanness, that is being sexualized, is a lack of self control, first in the desires of the mind, then the lack of self control spreads to every other area of a persons life. The congregation I was a part of took everything to the extreme having no self control, example in preaching: the teaching preacher would get angry and yell and scream from the pulpit for the entire two hours of a Bible study, his anger was taken to the extreme. Bible classes were also taken to the extreme example: first Friday of the month class in the Los Angeles area, with a six hour drive you had to leave Phoenix around noon to arrive at 6pm which means you had to ask for Friday off once a month (which my employer would not do), then drive the six hours to attend a ninety minute class then drive the six hours back; this is extreme. The disciplining of children was taken to the extreme and child abuse became the norm in the congregation. Because there was no boundaries in the mind there was no boundaries in the congregation, many members became busybodies in other people lives while their own lives were neglected. If your righteousness is extremism you have a lack of self control. 1 Corinthians 9:25 teaches that to achieve mastery you must be temperate in all things, not extreme.
Controlling the desires of the mind starts with the decision to be single minded. Deciding to love only one God, love only one spouse, love only one career, is a great strength of mind because it allows you to reject all others and concentrate on your one love. Adulterers and fornicators are double minded, they build their relationships on sand, that is a weak foundation and when hard times come the relationships dissolve. Many men have lost not only their wives but their livelyhood due to adultery, Tiger woods the first billion dollar athlete can't so much as win a simply golf game and has lost all of his endorsements and the money that went with them, due to his adulteries. When a person is married and they have a double mind you can see this very clearly with their wandering eyes. Men who are double minded are always looking around, giving women the up/down look and women see this immediately; they know when someone is paying attention to them. A man who is single minded and loves his wife won't have wandering eyes because all of his attention is focused upon his wife. My first teacher had wandering eyes and he was married with several children, but he could not hide his double mind. You cannot control your thoughts without controlling your environment. If you hang around alcoholics you will become an alcoholic, if you dwell in a sexualized environment you will become sexualized. It is important to removed sexualized materials from your life such as sexualized movies, sexualized TV shows, sexualized radio shows, sexualized magazines and sexualized people if you are to have a hope of developing self control. I had to remove myself and my family from a sexualized church to achieve a clean mind. What you do in one small area of life will spread to every area of your life both good and bad. Practice self control in one area and soon you will be controlling your spending, controlling your appetite, controlling your aggression's, controlling your emotions, and in fact controlling your life.
Controlling the desires of the mind means work. A person must decide what is important and what is unimportant and then separate the wheat from the chaff. Wheat is the good part and chaff is the dry husk surrounding the grain. The process of loosening the chaff from the grain so as to remove it is called threshing, traditionally done by milling or pounding. Separating the remaining loose chaff from the grain is called winnowing, throwing the grain up into a light wind which blows the remaining chaff away. In our lives we must decide what is important and then reject the rest. Having one God requires us to reject all others, having one spouse requires us to reject all others as the undesirable chaff. When tempted by your own desires remind yourself that you have no desire for chaff and blow off the desire. In Matthew 3:12 John the baptist spoke of Christ how he has his fan on his hand and is throughly purge his floor and gathers his wheat and burn up the chaff, this is done constantly as we must constantly control our desires by rejecting destructive desires. Once you have removed the undesirable you are then free to concentrate on the good part of life like serving our good God with a pure heart, just like Christ did.
Proverbs 23:1-8 teaches us about desires and hidden obligations. Solomon teaches that when you sit to eat with a ruler consider diligently what is before thee; Job did just that in Job 2:10 when he said that if we receive good from God we must also receive the bad. The good and bad go hand in hand they are inseparable. If you accept the good feelings from the pleasures of alcohol, drugs, fornication then you will also receive the bad effects as well for they are inseparable. Addicts suffer 100 times more than any pleasure they enjoy from their lust, the lead truly miserable lives. Addicts are irresponsible with first their time then their money then everything else they hold dear, because in time the chasing of pleasure consumes all of their time and resources until they are consumed and then destroyed. Solomon's advice: put a knife to your throat; an extreme measure to restrain oneself to say the least. If you are a man given to appetite, then you must tell yourself it is better to go hungry then to accept the dainties meats, Esau put his carnal desire for food above his spiritual responsibilities to lead as the firstborn and was cursed for it, he should have chosen to suffer hunger it would not have killed him as he feared. It is better to suffer loneliness than to seek the companionship of a whore, for the curses that come with that type of woman are irreversible. Men who see woman only as objects have no respect for any woman and are labeled as sexist, male chauvinist pigs, perverts and are shunned in almost every area of society, they become the dregs of society. Extreme situations require extreme measures, it is better to go without and suffer than to partake and become damned.
So let me get what you are saying here. You are professing the words of Solomon, a man who had 700 wives and 300 concubines, And whose father was an adulterer. I wonder if they considered women as objects? Hmmm. Didn't seem like either one of them feared having too much sex or perversions, and yet here is a Christian professing their advice to their people.
Stop speaking with all your extremist words of FEAR. People can read for themselves and form their Own opinions about what they read. This is why the SCOC discourages education especially for women. They want to go back to the times of women being subservient out of Need. That is why men of old had many wives, there was a Need, because women could not support themselves and there were many unmarried women and many dead young men from brutal wars. The Bible does relay history, and sometimes the tellers of those tales deceive their listeners as in the SCOC. You can read many interpretations of Bible verses or you can fool yourselves by listening to the fascinations of these oppressive cult leaders. Reading will provide you more than listening. Don't listen to their words of your damnation, that only gives them the perverted pleasure they desire, by your reaction of Fear. Fight their Evil, they are only barking dogs.
Solomon was indeed a wise man but yes a hypocrite, as the scripture says the hope of a hypocrite shall perish. In many of the proverbs Solomon was condemning himself but what he said is true non the less. Speaking of dogs Christ gave a warning against a particular canine called the wolf. In Matthew 7:15 Christ said beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothes but inwardly they are ravening wolves, today this is known as the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality. At first the wolf is kind but quickly turns angry (kind of like you do KF.) In controlling the desires of the mind the book of 1 Corinthians is a great example. Paul the Apostle addressed a church that was in disorder, they had spiritual strengths but were carnal and disorganized. Paul the Apostle was able to organize the church by setting down the order of authority from God, then Christ, then the man, then the woman. He then subtilty taught obedience by having the men cut their hair short and the women grow their hair long. A little leaven leavens the whole lump by setting grooming standards he was establishing control first carnally then the spiritual control would follow. He did not force the requirement saying if any man is contentious we have no such custom but if you were the only man who did not cut his hair you would not be given a place of authority, it was voluntary and a small step but that's how control starts. In the mind you do not establish control all at once, it takes a step by step approach starting with little steps. One step in self control is to avoid triggers like if you see an indiscreet person it will trigger a lustful reaction so you dress discreetly and avoid people who dress suggestively. It is a small step but it stops the trigger and you maintain self control. Paul was a great spiritual leader and had all the qualities of wisdom described in Proverbs 1:3-4 wisdom, justice, judgment, equity, and subtilty and is shows in how he handled the church at Corinth.
In Jude 1:8 we find one of the behavior characteristics of the unclean person: they despise dominion. Dominion is defined as sovereignty or control; i.e. authority. People who are unclean hate any and all types of authority and rebel against it. Women who are unclean will not be in subjection to their husbands because the husband is represent authority. The submission to authority can be feigned for a while but the unclean person will passively resist the openly rebel against it. In the mind of the unclean person they in their rebellion will develop violent fantasies and eventually they will not be able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality and will act out their violent fantasies and the rest of the world will stand back and ask why did he do that, no outer motive can be seen and the rest of the world are left to wonder. One of the consequences of the sin of uncleanness is insanity at the end. It is better to be in control of oneself and suffer without then to give in and become insane.
Talk about sounding INSANE??? What a ramble of your own lurid interest in those who YOU consider UnClean . I did not ask about the facts of your personal life the way you apparently askeD and Inquisitioned about mine. You do not have any basis but your own imagination of what you believe and what you have deceived others to believe. You should consider the insanity you are driving others to. I wish I could do more to stop you. You injured my children and for that you will NEVER be fogiven
So Anon on November 7 at 8:04, you really believe that if a man cuts his hair short, then he will be able to control himself in other areas of his life? That outward assimilation will make a person assimilate inwardly too?
This is what the Stanton group believes, and obviously you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
Outward obedience has noting to do with the inward obedience. Carnal things do not make a person turn spiritual. You have it backwards.
It starts in the "heart", and in the mind. And that's what Christ came to do,to turn the hearts of mankind back to their God. He didn't come to encourage us to do outward works, such as cut our hair, or do personal work according to the church schedule, or to go to bible classes, etc. That's what the Pharisees were doing-the outward things. They forgot that they were suppose to be working on the inside of "the cup" and not worry so much about what the outside looked like.
No, I would rather be seeking God and loving him with all of my heart than to be concerned with how long or short my hair is.
Also Anon on November 7: the ravening wolf isn't a description of a Jekyll and Hyde personality. A ravening wolf is always one that is ready to devour, but purposely hides it so the innocent sheep is unaware they are about to be devoured. It's planned. They try to look like sheep so that the sheep are deceived.
It's not a description of a personality. The ravening wolf really is a wolf, but is in disguise. What you are trying to do is make it sound like they have a personality disorder. And it just ain't so!
please explain your final comment "It is better to be in control and suffer without than to give in and become insane" Is this your own opinion that one must Suffer to make choices in ones life. Have you never made a mistake? It is hard to listen to your insanity and claims of Bible knowledge as though one should follow your lead.. Suffer No Thanks But do explain what you mean GP
Pretty sure Jesus was a long hair also 🙂
Personal grooming standards are used by the military to start the self control that is needed in the workplace and in combat. Controlling ones environment does work toward controlling the mind for good or evil. Once the standard of personal grooming are set then the next step in control can be administered and then the next and so on, it does work and very well as I was told you can't fight like a Marine if you don't live like a Marine and you can't think like a Christian if you don't live like a Christian. KF admits in his previous posts that he is unclean, it is not a guess. Uncleanness is a behavior path and all path's have an end. The end of the path for the unclean is an early death as the scripture says in Psalms 55:23 the wicked will not live out half their days. In the book unheeded warnings about the twin tragedies at Fairchild Air Force base in Spokane Washington where one man, a senior officer and pilot had given over to the behavior of foolish wrecklessness pushed his B 52 aircraft past its design limits until he crashed it and killed himself and the other crew members then four days later a young airman was given an other than honorable discharge for an uncontrollable temper and he returned with a rifle and killed sever people at the base hospital before being killed himself both men had shown extremes in behavior and it led to their untimely death, both men did not practice self control in their minds and it led to no self control in other emotions yes a little leaven does affect the entire mind both for good or evil. KF is toward the end of the path of uncleanness and with his comments posted using vile adjectives to describe the wife of the evangelist I can easily understand what he has been viewing on his computer for all the world is a refection what a person sees and says on the outside is what the person is on the inside vile on the outside is from vile on the inside.
On one hand I am not going to be a yes man to oppressive leaders but on the other I am not going to respect a man fully given over to his lust. I am not going to tie my children down as was taught, I am not going to slap children in the face as was also publicly shared, and I am not going to let other church members spank or abuse my children; I live by the principles taught in the scriptures and reject those who don't (even thought they be religious.) I am not going to listen to the angry rantings and ravings of an unclean man without objecting lest others think I agree with him. God is great, full of love and wisdom and I would have every person to come to the knowledge of Christ. Boundaries like walls around a city serve two functions to keep the good in and keep the bad out. Please do not associate me with any other posters here; I share the understanding God gives me with everyone else, but have to reject the unclean for their wickedness.
Well amen to you Anonymous Nov. 8th: Only a person that is clean is clear to judge as you have. And I agree with you, the words of unclean minds are hard to conceal as you see. So thank you for your post it was edifying.
What you seem to be ignoring is that many members and former members (many beyond me) have told their stories of the cult's behavior. Your focus on my behavior is the proof of the cult's obsession with finding out personal information to be used against their own members. You should not be Concerned about what I say, unless you understand that it may effect those who do not break under the cult's pressure and fear mongering.
I've lived half my life already. Working on the other half now. But without 25 years of the cult's influence into my life. So when it comes to ruining marriages and belittling people for their handicaps and instilling fear among children and people seeking safety. Just who really are the Wicked ones here? I do not ask others to follow me on my path. What I am saying is if they are following this cult they are on their own path to a broken life. Your cult is drying
up. Are you still living like a Marine? Get a Haircut Maggot!
Anon I think your issue is that you wreak of judgement of others and your explanations are confusing. I'm not here to defend KFs position but at the same time I certainly am not going to further expound on things that the SCOC has no temperance in, such as uncleanness. Most of us from there heard about topics such as uncleanness and "the mind" over and over without temperance or balance of other things such as love, mercy, compassion, and grace. I certainly don't get on here to feel like I'm still in an SCOC class. Your last comment "please don't associate me with other posters here" is so self-righteous. Why are you on here if you don't want to be associated with others posting? Has God given you your "understanding" for the purpose of sharing it on this specific blog? Or maybe you should start your own blog that focuses entirely on your "God-given" understandings?
Hope that doesn't sound too harsh, but you're sounding an awful lot like what most of us purposely left behind.
KF I am bald, no haircut needed. I rejected the Marine Corp life long ago. Am I sounding harsh? I was taught by the SCOC so the old patterns do come out. I don't want to be stereotyped with KF, he is the most vile poster here and should be ostracized for his obscene comments.
Let me slow down. Uncleanness, that is masturbation is a lack of self control. A little leaven leavens the whole lump (Matt 13:33) that is what you allow in one area of life will spread to rest of your life. A lack of self control is seen in excessive, and extreme behavior, the unclean person does not have an off switch. A normal person will set limits like I can afford to gamble this much money and no more, or I can only have two beers and no more so I can drive, or I will eat only until I am full and no more, this is called temperance. A person who does not practice self control has no temperance not in the physical world and not in the spiritual world. An uncontrollable temper is a sign of a masturbation, that is no limits in the sexual area leads to no limits in the emotions. Uncleanness is a behavior path that has a starting point a middle point and an end point. A person starts by giving in, then what is normal no longer satisfies so the lust is taken to the next more extreme level like viewing pornography. After a while the stimulus no longer works so more extreme stimulus is sought, like urolagnia which is a fetish of watching people urinate which KF exhibits in his comments. The end of the path of uncleanness is physical death usually through seeking a more extreme stimulus which will kill a human. In the examples at Fairchild AFB Spokane the pilot that killed himself by crashing his plane had given in to the extreme behavior of foolishness, he had become a wreckless pilot the extreme behavior can be taken back to the starting point of giving in to sexual stimulus. The young man who was discharge for an excessive temper and returned and killed people can be taken back to giving in to sexual stimulus. In Jude 1:7-8 it describes the downfall of Sodom and Gomorrha was the giving in to sexual stimulus of at first fornication then the extreme behaviors of rape and homosexuality. In Jude 1:8 it says likewise (meaning equal) these filthy dreamers (sexual fantasies) defile the flesh (masturbation) despise dominion (hate all authority, unclean women hate the husband set over them by God, hate the legal authority, hate political authority, hate religious authority) and speak evil of dignities ( a dignity is a person in high position or rank) they trash talk their parents, their teachers, their clergy. My first teacher, the tow truck man had an uncontrolled temper and wandering eyes and was a rampant gossip, all excessive behaviors. Other watched children go to the bathroom, others taught that children go to hell again all extreme behaviors. The entire church was following preachers and teachers who were unclean in their minds at least, and probably more, the whole church was either unclean or following the example of extreme behaviors set by the unclean leaders. You can trace the extreme behaviors back to sexual fantasies lack of self control in the mind for years. Human reach a point where they can tell the difference between fantasy and reality and start acting out their fantasies which is the definition of insanity: believing in something that is not real. Some unclean people have violent fantasies as stimulus instead of sexual fantasies because it is more stimulating and one day they take a weapon and kill a bunch of people again traced back to a lack of self control in the sexual areas.
Should say: "humans reach a point where they can not tell the difference between fantasy and reality"
WOW Anoymous November 9th I have to say you were paying attention that's for sure.
The sin of uncleanness is a root of bitterness that produces a tree of hatred. I never knew Merie, she died years before I was baptized but she was correct in teaching against the sin of uncleanness and the rejection of unclean people. I did not understand why she so strongly opposed uncleanness when the scripture teaches in 1 Timothy 6:10 that the love of money is the root of all evil until I studied bitter herbs. Wormwood is a bitter herb (and used by farmers to remove worms from livestock, it is the wood that removes worms thus it is called wormwood) but it is not the most bitter of all the bitter herbs that would be Rue. Uncleanness is a bitter root but the love of money is worse. I was married to an unclean woman and she did not just disagree with me she despised me, that is, she hated me and everything about me, and still does. We have been divorced for over ten years now and I told my adult children that I was thinking about moving to the state of Tennessee and the ex wife said "I know people there and they will get him" this after ten years of divorce, the despising of dominion that is the hatred of the husband never stops until I die or she dies. I have had to watch her, not willingly but because of of our children in common, slowly destroy herself. She turned homosexual fairly quickly then became an alcoholic and twice I pick up my daughter from school for being sick and when I got to the ex wives house there was a Terros team there (Terros is a drug/alcohol paramedic team) because the ex had stopped eating and just drank for four days straight until she passed out and almost died from alcohol overdose. Then her new religion became AA for a time and now she attends a pentacostal church and is claiming to see demons and angels everywhere. Humans cannot see angels or demons she meets the definition of insanity that is believing in things that are not true (angels and demons do exist but we as humans cannot see them). As bitter as my experience has been I cannot imagine living with a covetous person, the scripture says that is worse but I cannot imagine how. KF is similar in his hatred of the SCOC he does nto just disagree he despises religious dominion and always will. Merie was right in teaching against uncleanness, it is a bitter root to a tree of hatred.
These posts bore me. We need a new article from Kevin so we can go back to several discussions from more than one or two persons on here. Where is Kevin? Otherwise you can call this blog dead as the church. Notice how not many people are involved?
I don't agree Anonymous November 10th at 9:15am I find these writings very strong to the clean mind. Good reminders of truth in this matter. Thank you Anonymous Nov. at 5:55 am for your wisdom.
Actually, Concerned, I find Anon"s post to be remarkably obsessed with sexual matters. Which speaks of an unclean mind. It amazes me how he can take a scripture and ALWAYS give it a sexual meaning.
Anon 915 and 439: I agree! It's just crazy how those posts clearly reflect a sexualized mind. A lot of the scriptures cited have nothing to do with sex yet they were used as such. Someone spent WAY too much time in the SCOC and isn't quite over it. As I've said before, many of us need to stop regurgitating what we learned from Weiss and her followers and "clean" up our minds by learning from others outside the SCOC. If those teachings were so great then just go back because you're obviously stuck in that mindset anyway.
There are five steps in self control: Planning, rules, challenges, consequences, and practice. As I go through these five stages only when I get to consequences do people object. Are people in denial as to the adverse effects of sin? Call me a maggot or unclean or reject me but the truth remains: sin corrupts, the mind first, and then the body. The are stages in corruption and some can be turned back before its to late but some have go past the point of no return. Christ said in Matthew 17:17 O faithless and perverse generation, and insult to say the least but true non the less and some on this blog fit the same description: faithless those who proudly proclaim their unbelief and the perverse those who display their perversions through the use of vile adjectives. You are free to accept or reject anything on this blog. As for the SCOC they do some things right they believe Jesus is the son of God and teach others as well to believe in Jesus. I will not throw out the baby with the bath water I will take the good I have been taught and reject the bad teachings and behaviors.
The first step in the wrong direction for any person is the seeking of stimulus. First sexual stimulus is sought then when the stimulus no longer satisfies a stronger stimulus is sought and the behavior is repeated until the stimulus needed is so strong that it kills the human. People go from sexual stimulus to alcohol to drugs or any combination there of to get the desired physical pleasure but humans build a tolerance to stimulus and a constant increase in stimulus is needed to achieved the same level of pleasure. Giving in is easy resisting is difficult thus in Revelation 3:21 Christ says to him that overcometh I will grant.. Christ implies a battle of mind over the flesh. Surrendering is easy fighting our desires until we are victorious is difficult but worth it. Humans go from empathy (loving feelings) to apathy (no feelings) to antipathy (hateful feelings) in the persuit to fulfill a desire. At one time people had loving feelings toward God but they stop studying for a number of reasons and grow apathetic and leave God but then in time they begin to hate God. You can identify where on the path a person is by the feelings they display: empathy, apathy, or antipathy. KF displays antipathy thus he is at the end of his path. In Proverbs 1:22 wisdom asks how ye simple ones love simplicity? I ask the same thing how long will you retain simple understandings and not develop complex understandings? I search the deeper things of God and encourage others to do the same.
Breaking Free by Rachel Jeff.
.I watched this special on Dateline how Rachel broke away from her father’s cult. If. You have On Demand I hope you watch it and share with family members who are still in the cult.
You know, I would think that someone who is so proud of their faith in Jesus, would not be afraid to say who they are to give some validity to what they are saying. For all we know these Anonymous preachers of gospel may be Russian Hackers.
Now, I freely admit that I am not a believer and I do not follow the SCOC false doctrines to guide my life. I am however Sooo curious as to why these people are sooo interested in me as a non-member. I'm not asking anyone to follow me on my journey. I am not digging into their personal lives and issuing declarations of their demise and "end of their path" Anyone can say what they want about others, but there are many more actual members and ex-members detailing the abusive behaviors and doctrines of this cult than there are members trying to delve into the life of a never-been-member.
So how do these critics of my existence know anything about my life that they may declare my imminent demise? I certainly did not offer up any of the accusations that they infer. It is their own lascivious fantasies that they impose upon me because, I never accepted their rules or teachings. How did they come up with all these supposed perversions that they apply to me? Again their own perverse minds are demonstrated by their non-Bible ranting about SEX, SEX SEX.
Where did all their ideas of what KF does come from? Could it be their shaming of my ex-wife that forced her to concede to their Inquisition. How many others have they broken-down through public humiliations?
Why do they waste time on this blog giving attention to a non-Christian. Am I not to
be "Avoided" They want to convince those searching for answers about the SCOC that listening to KF will put them on a path to the End. Hate to break this to you , but as soon as you are born you are on a path to the End.
When my ex-wife entered into this cult she pushed our family on to the path of the SCOC. Destruction, Fear, Separation, Lies, Persecution, and Mind-control is what my family went through while on that path for over 20 years. Now that I put that influence behind me, I'm on a much more beautiful path. But they affected my children's self awareness and identity.
They were told by their mother not to follow their father's guidance. "He's not one of us" Now that they are no longer children they have discovered their own paths. But the SCOC and their mother gave them many false ideas about how they should find their way in lives.
I find many others who are living very good lives, enjoying their relationships with non-cult members. You know (Normal People) They haven't been brainwashed into servitude of cult leaders.
So everyone, Keep searching for understandings of life, become educated about man's history on earth. There are many opportunities to gain a wealth of knowledge
beyond the stories of the Bible which rarely produce evidence of their believability.
If you are following this cult you are on their path to your own end. Change your course. Challenge everything they say, because their doctrines are full of lies.
KF Just another guy on this Blue Planet
KF, Thanks for your details and reply. Hopefully others can learn to empathize with your situation. Some of the hardest hearts do come out of the SCOC, unfortunately. What we read about you in 2 minutes you had to live for 20 years and watch as your family deteriorated due to a sect that interferes way too much in people's lives and makes them feel like that's normal. Best wishes to you and I hope one day you can find a way to God and not religion.
Anon Nov 9th, 5:55, 12:37 and Concerned. Do you believe Merie’s church is the one and only true church? A perfect church? If you were to die right now would you inherit eternal life?
I didn't realize the rules of this blog was to NOT be a part of the Spring Valley Church of Christ. I thought Kevin Harper encouraged conversation with active members. My bad.
Concerned, I was just asking three simple questions as you answered one of them. What about the other two? I think it’s great you are on the blog. Continue to read and learn. I do not understand how someone with a good conscience can continue in Merie’s cult though after reading all of the evil and just how off this so called church is. Be careful being on the blog and don’t give away who you are unless you do not mind being withdrawn from. The SV guy has warned members of the cult about being on here. He dares members to let him know if you are. They withdrew from me being a nonmember so watch out for that bully. Lol
Hey Craig. Haven't you figured out who Concerned is?. She get's a free pass to spy in on the blog trying to find those who are not obeying their command. One of her rules and her husband's rules is. NO Questions.
Craig, Your a non member as is KF, so you wouldn't spiritually understand without the Holy Spirit received at baptism. So I am not obliged to answer.
Concerned, I do agree this much with you that I am thankfully a nonmember of your cult. However, I do know more about your cult than you do as I’m not blind and deceived. Why would your cult apply withdrawal to a nonmember? Another unscriptural practice which proves you nor none of the members of Merie’s cult have the Holy Spirit. Just another false religion started by an arrogant woman. You won’t answer because you have no answer. I have 200 plus questions for any of the leaders of the cult.
I don't know your history, but you asked a question concerning it so I will venture an answer. The church would not knowingly withdraw fellowship from a non-member so there is more to the story. I would venture to say you were baptized but then made the decision your baptism wasn't recognized by God. Perhaps the church didn't agree with your judgment that you were a non-member. But then you committed sin worthy of withdraw. So according to the church you are indeed a Christian and subject to church discipline.
Concerned, yep that’s exactly what they did. Funny how they did not serve me the Lords Supper for nearly 5 months because I was a nonmember. I began to read this blog and ask questions using my name calling out leadership about some concerns as my wife is in and my money goes towards her giving. Legit questions such as how much support the two paid preachers masquerading as evangelists are paid. What happens next the May meeting and the liar of a preacher you have in Portland tells me I’m a member. Lol you all are so disingenuous it’s pitiful. I was sincere concerning my baptism last January and even the more so now that I’m not a member. Obvious what you all are up to. Silence those who disagree. Trust me many disagree with some of Merie’s doctrine just have not let it be made known. The two you have in place here in Portland to lead are not qualified to lead kindergarteners so you think they could figure out my mind and where I was at with baptism. They tried to manipulate my thoughts throughout our so called counseling. Bottom line unbelief voids my baptism. Never would I get baptized in such a faulty and evil place as Merie’s cult. Question #1 how much is the support of the two paid preachers? That’s a simple question to answer. Just get out s calculator and start adding. Lol
I am having a hard time sorting out your last comment, sorry. Are you or are you not a non-member? Did you or did you not embrace your baptism?
Concerned, simply put I’m a nonmember. I never in your words embraced my baptism as throughout my 20 years I had doubts. Bottom line it all traces back to unbelief before, during and after my baptism.
Concerned, no one on this blog is obligated to answer any question-not just those who declare they have the Holy Spirit. And just because you are in the "Spring Valley Church of Christ" there is no guarantee that you have the Holy Spirit still. Your "church" teaches that you can lose the Holy Spirit, even while you are still attending!
Also, none of us here are referring to the group as the "Spring Valley Church of Christ", so you have just given away your identity! If you aren't one of the teachers there, you will probably be hearing all about your sin for being on this site. If not, then it means you are one of the teachers there!
But have no fear! We welcome all!
If you have read any of Craig's posts, you already know the circumstances of his being a non-member. Now, your "church" is in the business of deciding whose baptisms are "valid" and whose are not. They are saying it doesn't matter what the person says, what matters is what the "church" decided.
I tremble for all of you who do this, and follow this. This is in God's realm, not ours. Yet your "church" has no hesitation to make judgments such as this, claiming that they are in the place of God-that they know what His Mind is in such matters. This sounds alarmingly like the Pope. He says the same thing-that His decisions are the same as God's!
Yet we see in history how often the Catholic Popes were wrong, as well as Merie's Group. Constantly changing their "doctrine", yet saying it came from God and the Holy Spirit!
How often God and the Holy Spirit are wrong then!
I choose to believe that God and the Holy Spirit are NEVER wrong, only man. The fact that YOUR "church" is constantly changing their "doctrines" tells me the group is "off". The group is teaching for doctrine the commands of men.
Just because you follow some of the things in the bible doesn't mean you are following God.
Oh, and as to "knowing" someone's "history", almost everyone in Merie's group really doesn't know any one's "history.
Just on this blog, not too long ago, someone said that they know my history. And now Anon says he/she knows all kinds of things about KF.
No you don't. What you really know is what others have said. Anon, have you spoken to KF and have proof that your accusations are true? I know that in my case, a lot of what has been "relayed" is false.
It's very similar to the game "Telephone". The first person whispers something into the ear of the person next to them. And then it goes on down the line until the last person-who then says what they heard. Most of the time it is so skewed it's laughable!
That's what happens in Merie's group, but it's not funny. It's serious. A lot o evil surmising goes on, as well as assumptions. And then a LOT of murmuring by the so called teachers. Very little is confirmed with proof, or even speaking to the individual being talked about.
And if someone happens to speak to that individual, they are not believed! Things are said such as "we know you better than you know yourself!" or "I find that hard to believe!"
So don't fool yourself into believing that you really know someone and their history.
Good discussions finally opening up again and we can get off the sick discussions of sex. These discussions only prove how far off this church is….I have been in another church Not a Church of Christ for over 30 years and ever once heard so much false teachings that has been discussed here. I read this blog weekly as I have close family still attending and patiently praying and waiting for them to get out. Keep posting! Keep getting the word out!
years
Craig, considering your last post I was wondering why in the twenty years time of doubt you didn't get baptized. I know you believe in baptism. And I know the Spring Valley Churches of Christ have and will baptize those with doubt. PP was baptized three times because of doubt as well as others. Your soul is much important that this controversy.
Concerned 5:59 obviously that’s not how it works in the Portland congregation. I had doubts and brought those doubts out to the open but the were ignored as you are alright. Of course it was good yet never getting into a serious discussion tell this past January. No surprise as the Portland congregation has been leaderless for the past 19 years. I was even questioned by the hypocrite preacher about my baptism around 10 years ago. That only brought further doubts. But I continued to live the lie as a member when I was never one. Many in the Portland congregation determined there baptism was no good. But mine seems to be different to them for obvious reasons as the hypocrite preacher knows I know to much about him so let’s just remake Craig a member, withdraw from him and silence him. Lol what a joke as I do not honor it anyway as they will find out
Concerned, I am concerned about your response to Craig's three questions. He asked you three very basic questions, ones that are usually addressed in "Non-member classes".
1. Is Merie's church the one and only true church?
2. Is it a perfect church?
3. If you were to die right now, would you inherit eternal life?
The non-member classes that YOUR church hold for non-members(THOSE WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT, remember?) usually always answer those questions.
Your reply-"Craig, you are a non-member, as is KF. YOU WOULDN'T SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT RECEIVED AT BAPTISM. SO I AM NOT OBLIGATED TO ANSWER".
Number one, that answer smacks of superiority and self righteousness! You should be ashamed of yourself to answer someone with that! Instead, you should use this opportunity to preach the gospel! Teach ones how Merie's group is the ONLY one that is the true church! And that you do have the hope of eternal life, and why it is that you have that hope! Isn't that what the bible says to do?
And then, to make matters worse, you use another ploy that the teachers in Merie's group use-you refuse to answer the questions (very basic ones) and then ask questions of your own!
This is to purposely deflect away from your own responsibility and to put the focus onto someone else.
No one here is required to answer questions. My point is that you missed a wonderful opportunity to teach and share, and instead answered it in a way that repels people instead of drawing them in.
Craig, really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you for your honesty and willingness to engage.
Concerned 8:31 thank you and you are welcome. I am very willing to engage I just want the truth to be known. Every comment I make is fact and truth. I have nothing to hide.
Concerned, one thing I want to make sure you understand is that the church in Portland accepted and acted upon the fact that Craig was NOT a member for 5 months. In order to be with his wife and children on Sunday he continued attending and the Portland Church did not offer him the Lord's Supper because he was deemed to be a nonmember. Then, after this year's May meeting, the Portland church decided that he IS a member and withdrew from him for his activity on this blog etc. That is just wrong, wrong, wrong. Knowing these facts, what do you think about the situation concerned?
As a non member Craig posed a threat to the Spring Valley Churches of Christ. He was in the awkward position of walking among them, hearing what was said and then reporting it to this blog. It was a tactical move. To declare him a Christian would then allow withdraw. He no longer could speak freely to the members about what was said on the blog so it was a protection of church peace in their judgment. Not saying I agree by the way.
Concerned 12:39 no surprise to read what you commented but let’s let the facts be known I was only temporarily walking amongst them as I knew I had to attend somewhere else because of the evil of Merie’s cult. What I did not was report things I heard there to this blog. I would share some things with my wife from this blog that I was learning about the history of Merie’s cult and some wrong understandings if scripture that was being taught there. Obviously my wife took that info to the preacher and teacher. And so here I am and this just fuels me that much more. Thank you Concerned for your input.
Concerned, I know you are no longer with Merie's group. And I'm so glad that you and your husband have been doing well where you are currently attending, and helping out other congregations as well! Wish you hadn't been treated the way you were by Merie's group! Best wishes!
Concerned did you witness any of the conversations concerning how they handled my situation? Do you have any more details you could share? You can contact by email if you’d like or text message. craigcusick52@gmail.com or (360) 721-2352. Thank you
Craig, my answer is simple. I have not witnessed anything of your personal experience. I just know the marching orders.
I haven't seen this brought up here. The cult really thrives in military remote towns. Members spoke of it during fellowhhip. Obviously, the cult thirives on people away from home, fear of deployment, loneliness. Craig, I wonder what the military in those towns would do if someone let them know exactly what was going on with their soldiers. It's how my door was knocked on, and many more.
Sherry, the choice for getting into military cities is easy. Military people are "rule followers". They learn not to question and just do what they are told. If you can convince them to join the cult, you will have the obeying everything with minimal questioning. They're trained to do that.
Craig, you mentioned your wife took the information you shared with her off this blog to the preacher/teacher. Did they give her any answers etc to whatever she brought up to them?
Anon 7:03 I have no idea if an answer was given or not. I was told any questions to ask the preacher. Lol. The topic is dropped in my home. I’d rather keep the peace.
KF, you think so? I wonder why they don’t use there names or at least initials. If it is SV guys wife it’s not like he’d withdraw from her. Lol
A small indication of what these Charlatans charge in dollars to decree that their meek members may have a chance to earn Everlasting Life is in my ex-wifes case was about $4,000 plus per year for her alone. Of course she was skimming those dollars from my salary unbeknownst to me until it was revealed by her in an income tax interview. So multiply that figure by the membership and these usurpers are way over-paid for doling out pain and suffering as their labor of love.
Of course the unpaid decades of personal work she performs on their behalf also contributes to their evil intentions. They even got her to take me back to court three years after our divorce to try to get eve n more from me. They have no limits on their Greed and Love of Money. I've earned every penny of what I have from over 40 years of working. CF never earned any income of her own. So can her donations from her Heathen husband be considered true offerings? Remember she tried to hide her activities from me.
I doubt she has the ability now to continue that level of payment. This practice of inducing fear into their members and demanding such high levels of contributions is nothing less than Extortion. IRS would love to have their records
I believe she earned her money by living with you KF.
I have to call baloney on KF. He posts of making hundred of thousands of dollars as an air traffic controller, then has a rental house business, and an airplane washing business and is complaining about 4000.00? If he is as filthy rich as he claims then he should put his money where his mouth is and sell one of his mansions in National City and send the money up to Kevin and his wife the concerned insider in Spudsville. Poor Kevin drives a Ford F-700 school bus to haul his family around in and they burn a lot of fuel. His poor wife could use a new wardrobe and some new jewelry; hey KF stop being a churl and show some compassion to Kevin at least.
Lol. This is the funniest thing I have read in a while. Thanks for the belly laugh anon @8:38. My sides. Oh my sides.
For those who don't know National city is the armpit of San Diego and if you own property in National city it means you are a slum lord. In Nampa Idaho where Kevin lives the armpit is Garden city where people are so redneck they drive school buses instead of cars. So now you understand the satire.
Obviously, Anon 8:38 isn't up on his armpits. I think Lewiston, with its paper processing plant, has to be #1 in Idaho for that distinction. Garden City's not great, a small area of Nampa's not great. But I don't live there, so…
Haven't had a spare minute to read the backlog of comments, if there are wildly inappropriate comments, please provide a link to my email and I'll try to get to it. Between driving my family around in my F-700 bus. Or something like that. 😉
San Diego certainly has it's armpits Yes Nasty City as it is called is full of crime, drugs, hookers and generally low income or no income families living off "God's Gift" and down and out individuals. But it is also full of many enlisted military personnel who serve the USA. The other smelly armpit of San Diego is Spring Valley.
Well guess where the SCOC spends most of their time preying on disadvantaged and vulnerable people. The building as they call it, where they conduct their meetings looks more like an abandoned building than any respectable business. Take a look at it on Google. 925 Grand Ave Spring Valley, CA. Iron bars on the windows a large flat steel door. Are they afraid of their neighbors? Won't Jesus protect the One and Only True Church. Not very respectful of it's poor patrons or for representing praise of their so called religion. The area is full of crime, drugs, Hookers and porno stores, honetly (1 mile away). Is this the crowd of people that church members want to be around. Perhaps they close their eyes until inside the cracker box building.
Jesus practiced in a place called the "Holy Land" not the UnHoly Land.
Well Anony-Mouth 8:38 got most everything wrong about my business. I never had any properties in the slums of Nasty City or Spring Valley. But my ex chose to live there. My aircraft washing business which I did while working ATC full time closed
after only two years about 25 years ago.
Many of the rental properties that we owned were rented to COC members for less than market rates. BTY we rented one of our largest homes to a family whose last name is Preman. That was in Santee not Nasty City. Why would the preacher and his family live among the poor of their congregation?
Hypocrisy? I'd say so. Hypo-Christians indeed.
We rented a new SFR in Santee to some old ladies of the cult. They brought down the value with their piggish living. We rented to the preacher's son and his infant child who now uses drugs and has already had a child out of wedlock. He's not happy about how that happened. He told me she was influence by other young SCOC children.
Then there was a duplex that we rented to a family with about 7 kids all with first names beginning with letter "A" and last name of letter "V" plus another family of a single mom with two teen girls and another old lady crammed into a small room. Upon our divorce we lost about $100,000 in value because of the damage and filth that was present after years of providing them what was a completely rehabilitated duplex.
I could continue but you get the idea.
Perhaps Nasty City or Spring Valley is where these SCOC low lifes should live. Just setup a camp of cult members around the building. They would fit in with the homeless and hookers there.
Hey Kevin if you do own an F700 maybe you can haul away the load of filth this cult produces. One of my best friends was born and raised in Nampa. I've been there. Did not see hookers and homeless, but a bit to boring for me.
So if you want to pile on KF, get your facts straight, take a look at where you worship, and remember I'm not a Christian. Just another guy on the Blue Planet.
Is it a sin to use the word Baloney?
Even a clock that does not run is still correct twice a day and as much as I hate to do it I am going to have to agree with you on the point of irresponsibility, but I do not fault the individual members as much as leadership. The lack of daily maintenance was due to the lack of temperance. Temperance is a virtue that teaches not to little and not to much. In Proverbs 6:10-12 says a little sleep a little slumber so shall thy poverty come and this is true of a man who is taking to many naps and is over sleeping but it is also true of a man who over works and does not get enough sleep, a little sleep ruins the health and energy levels of the man and he is unable to work. We were required to attend a mid week Bible class on Tuesdays and leadership told us it was only and hour and half once a week but what was left out was the required hour or more of study and providing rides to and from class; it was much more than an hour and half once a week. Women had little time to keep the home as they had their own ladies class and separate personal work and so when I got off work at 5 pm, drove thirty minutes home, and had 15 minutes to eat shower and change then out the door to be at personal work by 6 pm, I got less than appealing dinners for my wife was a great cook but due to time constraints I got heat and serve dinners more often then not. It was out of temperance; it was excessive. In addition to all the required church activities we also were expected to support lazy men who did not work and did not support themselves nor their families. I was asked to provide support in the form of cash loans and the buying of fellowship food and free house and auto repair for men who were not only physically able to work and support themselves but who were much higher educated then me and thus could earn much more than me but choose to be self employed and not work. I was not allowed to say no to requests for help and got calls late at night from members whose cars were broken down, calls at work from members asking for help, and I was expected to leave work that supported me and my family and go and help out members who could have helped themselves. The few of us who did work were expected to provide support for the many who did not work, it was irresponsible of leadership to allow this. So yes on the point of irresponsibility you are correct.
There are a certain amount of people who are just plain moochers off of other people and they do it through churches with sob stories which may or may not be true. They are always the victims. Also we have enablers who encourage this behavior rather than helping others to take responsibility for their actions and learn how to take care of themselves. You will see both all around. The moochers or victims and the enablers. It sounds like your teachers and preachers know quite a bit about mooching.
I was an enabler thinking I was doing something good. Now I am a little on the slow side and it takes me a while to figure things out. What I was doing is called providing surety to others. I was the backup, the helper, the go to individual when your in need and I thought this was being a loving Christian. When I was in need however I was on my own there was no helper for the helper. I noticed that the more I helped others the less they worked, they were not the needy they were the lazy and most were lazy men. I have learned not to provide a backup to others not to help those who can help themselves but simply don't. Learning responsibility through suffering from your own mistakes is a lesson not soon forgotten. If your car breaks down I say use your emergency fund and call a tow truck, oh you did not save for an emergency fund? Well then just call the teacher and ask him to come and get you in the middle of the day when your 1000.00 used van breaks down 50 miles outside of Phoenix and see how fast he responds; if he responds at all. Proverbs 6:1-5 My son, if thou be surety for thy friend,if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger, thou art snared with the words of thy mouth… This has saved me so many times now that I can say no. I have men whom I work with that get caught cheating on their wives and then get kicked out and are looking for a place to stay and I can now say "sorry but I cannot help you" Learning not to be surety or an enabler to others is a very painful but necessary lesson.
Yes it is and we all need to work on boundaries. I have been scammed many times over by people in my lifetime. When someone cannot buy diapers or Tylenol for their babies but have alcohol and cell phones or cigarettes is an example. We just got a call for us to pay someone’s heating bill. Oh really! Sorry! Priorities! Saying “No” is a complete sentence. The person who told me was an addict after he got clean. Pray and think before you give!
good points, Anon(s). That is one of the downfalls of Merie's group-they REQUIRE you to help whomever calls you.
I was required to babysit anytime someone called. It didn't matter what you were doing or what you may have planned, or that you just needed some time with your own family. It also didn't matter that you babysat a lot. If you said "no" just once, then you and the whole church heard about it at the next class!
But it wasn't just babysitting. It was everything from helping someone to move (which usually meant doing everything, including packing, unpacking, cleaning, moving, etc) to taking them grocery shopping, even when "asked" at the last minute.
We helped our teachers to move, and spent all day Saturday doing it! I also had them over for dinner, so they wouldn't have to cook. I also cleaned her cabinets, lined them with contact paper, and unpacked all of her dishes, etc. and put them away in the cabinets. While I was doing this, she mentioned that we wanted to paint the inside of the cabinets, but didn't say when. That next class I was rebuked for not helping her to paint them the next day!
My point is that no matter how much you do, it's NEVER enough. Never. And it doesn't stop. And the more you do, the more they heap on.
It was after I left- and I finally had some time to think-that I realized that one of my teachers didn't really do anything! She only did the minimum of what she was required to do-personal work, kid's classes, adult bible study, etc. She NEVER volunteered to do anything. She didn't help with the mapping, or contacts (unless her husband needed her to go with him to see a woman). Her husband used to brag about how at the end of fellowships she was always there with a broom. But my point is-she never did anything with that broom!
I was usually the one that cleared things, and did the dishes. I even would fold up chairs and start loading them while the men looked on. Once in a while others would join in and help.
When I left I had to turn in all of the mapping things and cards, the laminator, the maps, the books (finances) etc.
It was then that I realized how much I was doing and the teachers weren't! I was out of my home 7 days a week, either at bible classes, personal work, contacts, fellowships (they are required too, don't fool yourself), mapping, worship….
It's all part of their teaching that you are never good enough, and you are never doing enough!
Another insidious thing to watch out for! Just sayin….
I agree, many of the same lazy men I supported did not pay child support which when I found out infuriated me. How can you stand behind the pulpit and lead the people of God when you neglect the support of your own children? A drug addict learns to freeload in order to save as much money as possible for their drugs. Even after a person has stopped using the habit of freeloading will remain and you must point it out to them and demand they work and provide for their own. We had a man in Phoenix who was a self admitted former drug addict and was constantly trying to find someone to provide him surety. He told those who refused to help him "you don't love me" and then complained to the teacher who was being supported himself by his parents and said teacher would put out teaching in favor of the freeloading ex drug addict, freeloading birds of a feather do indeed stick together. In the metaphor of the ant and then grasshopper the ant goes to work and the grasshopper goes seeking a person to provide them surety. I see the same behaviors where I work, the boss gives out the assignments and then the lazy, usually senior ex military men, go through the company seeking someone to assign their work to and once found return to the boss and say I have got so and so covering that and then they do nothing themselves but ride the back of the workers. I saw similar behavior in the church with study and understandings.
When someone would share an understanding the teacher would then present it as his own at the next meeting making himself look really wise. Refuse to be someone else's surety, you have enough to do to provide for yourself and you own. If you do agree to help realize that you are only encouraging and enabling their laziness, you are making them worse.
Just to make you feel a little better folks in both churches I have belonged to it is well known 20 per cent of the congregations do 80 per cent of the work and it is hard to get volunteers. As I am aging and my close friends in both churches are getting simply worn out or because of physical disabilities can no longer do many things they are finding they will have to discontinue many things such as Christmas bazaar,etc. It does not sound like you have many times of fun in this church or laughing. It seems like emotions are blah! Am I right? We all need laughter in our lives and working on different projects or committees together we can have fun as we work! I recently was assigned to make a recipe of peanut butter fudge for a social event. It turned out hard as a rock and I had bought my ticket and worried and prayed about having no time to make another batch so I simply could not go that evening. My goodness what would people think? Soon God brought peace and took my worries away and it was forgotten. I missed the social but they had plenty of sweets without my disaster. And life goes on! We laugh about it now! I took pictures and even threw away the pan��
Agreed Anon! Merie's group is filled with contradictions and hypocrisy. There are so many insidious things, and you don't see them at first because you are focused on yourself. You are trying to read, study and learn about God, His word, and what you need to change in yourself.
And that is what the group wants, so that you don't notice what they are really all about.
For example, one of the "things" we heard over and over in the group was "Christianity starts in the home!" This was explained as meaning that we should be teaching and living it at home, and "working" with our children, and "working" on ourselves from the inside out.
BUT…the reality is, you are not given the time to do this. The group schedule doesn't allow much time at home, let alone time to teach your children! For the men and unmarried women, you are out on Monday and Wednesday nights doing personal work. The married women are out for a good part of the day, usually on a Monday or Wednesday. Then, there is the mid-week bible class, usually on a Tuesday night. Then there is the non-member class, usually on Thursday night. Then there is ALWAYS fellowship on Friday night, and then-of course- ALL DAY Sunday; worship (2-3 hours), am class, fellowship, and then evening class.
The men have very little time at home to work on a relationship with their wives, let alone their children. The wives who are at home have very little time with their school age children, because of the group schedule!
It sounds good to say Christianity starts in the home, but it's impossible to really apply it in the group. Don't be fooled by what ones may tell you. You and your children/spouse will be divided because of the demands on your time.
I WANT TO WARN THOSE OF YOU WHO AREN'T BAPTIZED YET, AND HAVE CHILDREN:You are expected to deal with other member's children, and you are expected to let them deal with yours. You are REQUIRED to leave your children at babysitting, even if you don't approve of the babysitter's methods of dealing with your children. Plus, many times the children of teachers are believed over the Christian-so the teacher's unruly children at babysitting are considered the babysitters fault/lacking.
Remember, it is NEVER the fault or lacking of a teacher, it's ALWAYS yours.
Another insidious thing in Merie's group: the evangelists.
Currently, unless things have changed radically, there are two so called evangelists. One is in Spring Valley, CA. He has been in that congregation for a long time-I was baptized in 1985, and he was living there by then! The second one is in Greenville. He is usually referred to as "the one in the South". He has been living in that same city for many years, at least 12 years, and possibly longer.
My point with this is that Paul was an evangelist that we read of in the bible. Merie's group insists that they "only speak where the bible speaks and is silent where the bible is silent." Merie herself strongly rebuked the "off churches" for the paid preacher system, and how that ones called themselves evangelists so that they could be paid.
And what does Merie's group have today? Two men who have the title evangelist, yet stay in the same place for years. They receive a salary, to do what?? Counsel on the phone?? When the Lakeland congregation was in trouble, we could only get the SV evangelist once. When we were a brand new congregation, that same "evangelist" couldn't be bothered to come and help us start/establish the congregation. EVEN WHEN OUR ONLY PREACHER LEFT THE CHURCH TWO MONTHS AFTER WE ALL MOVED TO LAKELAND!
A preacher from Albany, GA (6 hours away) had to come every weekend to preach for us, until a replacement could be sent. Yes folks, the group's "evangelist" couldn't even be bothered back then to come on the weekends to help us! And he wasn't working a job, but the preacher in Albany was. And that preacher in Albany had a family to tend to also!
But even today, do the evangelists go and start new congregations, like Paul did in the bible? Do they go and spend weeks with congregations that are having problems? Do they go and visit congregations, to see how they are doing and lend support? NO.
AND, to add insult to injury, when anyone inquires as to how much money they are receiving, they are treated as the enemy! The "evangelist" in SV has even publically rebuked ones for asking, stating that it is his private business.
I have to wonder, what is he afraid of? Every church that I have been to, since I left Merie's group, actually posts their income and expenditures on the bulletin board! Every member gets a copy of it. This list included what the preacher is paid, as well as anyone else!
I may not always agree with how the money is spent, but at least I know who is getting paid and how much.
With the so called evangelists in Merie's group, not only do they not want anyone to know who much they are paid, no one is allowed to know from what congregations they are getting it! On top of that, they go to congregations for "help" to pay for their car insurance, electric bills, etc.
Really? Imagine if I could go to my employer and have them give me a paycheck and to pay my car insurance too!! Wow!
Just one more contradiction of what the bible teaches and what they actually practice. As well as a contradiction in what they used to teach as well!
What would Merie say to them now if she were still alive?
Jo, I have to chuckle too! One time I put a pan of peanut butter cookies in the oven and clean forgot about them!! They were charcoal by the time I remembered them! 🙂
But just so you know, Merie's group doesn't believe in having bazaars to raise money. They believe that the ONLY way to put money into the "treasury" is by giving on the first day of the week. And, some of the congregations won't deposit a non-member's giving into the treasury either (tho they have no qualms in accepting money from the "Christian" woman whose husband is a non-member, and she doesn't work outside of the home!! So, is it her money or his that she is putting into the collection???)
So we never had bazaar or anything fund raising events. The "work" that we did always stemmed around personal work, babysitting, classes, helping other members, etc. And it was usually done by a select few!
The group looks down on such things as bazaars, revivals, etc. They say they are unscriptural, yet the bible says nothing about them! (So, is Merie's group silent where the bible is silent??)
This stuff above.. I honestly have to laugh out loud.. What kind of minds even think this garbage is normal.. I couldn't even think up such stupid things to make as rules.. Hahahahahahahaha
All you people who listened and believed you are like sheep! How many times have you seen an atheist open a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen? Life is so much better when you don't listen and don't believe, you should be like a goat! In you bible did they Pharisee's listen and believe? Nope and look how good they had it, power authority and palaces to live in. Hahahahaha! Now let me go and polish my pennies!
Anon Nov. 20. Where are you from Boy?
I been around. Boy is a racial slur, you do not call a grown black man "Boy" unless your racist and yes a black man can be just as racist as a white man against another black man. You don't deceive any of us Christians, you play the victim first: I lost my marriage and kids and money to the SCOC but now you are aggressive trying to dominate the blog; you are a victim-aggressor, aka Dr. Jykell Mr. Hyde, aka wolf in sheep's clothing. Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. Many of us Christian have suffered willingly for Christ's name believing what our teachers and preacher told us to do. We were used, we were despised, and we were rejected by the current religious leadership kinda of like Jesus our savior was by the religious leaders of his day. Suffering is part of Christianity it makes us stronger and wiser when we reflect upon it's meaning. You laugh at us for following the rules given to us which we obeyed in sincerity thinking we were serving God and only when we learned the Bible for ourselves did we realize how deceived we were. I am stronger for going through my suffering, and have become a strong anti cult person pointing out to others how they are being deceived and not just in the SCOC, but many other religious groups as well.
Anon 6:58 well said. Thank you for sharing and the anti-cult work you are doing. Anon 8:46 are you a member of Merie’s cult.
Maybe I have misinterpreted 11/18 at 1:30 pm the individual seems to be laughing at us who have suffered and not with us, that is adding insult to injury. We believing we had found the truth put all our heart and time and resources into the group and in return were used up and then portrayed as the Judases by leadership who themselves were the betrayers. At May week many of the lessons from the leaders were to lament their suffering with a brother or sister in their home congregation who was one of "those" that is a spiritual burden like Judas, and how they as teachers were suffering with such a heavy spiritual burden. The self aggrandizement at the expense of another's soul and reputation was disgusting. It was scapegoating blaming the lack of baptisms in a congregation upon one person. I as a teacher am suffering so much with this brother or sister, oh woe is me, was the lament. My teaching preacher did not teach us to worship God but rather worship the evangelist in Spring Valley as he did. The pulpit was used for his self employment business at one point as he used some of the teenage boys in the congregation to spread flyers for his self employment business and the boys had done a poor job leaving multitude of flyers at each door and the preacher getting phone calls from angry residents so we had to listen to him for the entire class chew out the boys for their poor job they did in his business, the pulpit became his place of employment to correct his employee's for the entire class, it was wrong. I have suffered enough at the hands of evil teachers thank you.
Concerned 5:59 to add from the very beginning there was red flags of why I should’ve never given Merie’s cult a sniff of my attention. If my wife hadn’t became a member which her baptism was no good either I’d never would’ve become one. Which I wasn’t one anyways. The longer I stayed though I played the part I became increasingly concerned what I was involved in especially with the evil example that was preaching in Portland and is still the only man preaching in Portland approaching a year now. Absolute worst example of someone who claims to be a Christian is in the pulpit in Portland. Can’t wait to confront him face to face.
Sounds like perverse disputing's of men of corrupt minds. The faithless are a waste of time trying to reason with, even if you could convince them of the error of their ways they are too arrogant to admit their wrong. I have called attention to the more corrupt members of the sect and to their credit they have removed them either through withdrawal or rejection. Many "false" religions such as the catholic church I was raised in tolerated every evil imaginable amongst its members with no church discipline that I can remember. We were told that some were excommunicated from the catholic's but none in recent history. If you believe you are not saved and have the sins of your life on your soul then why not repent and get baptized? Unless of course you do not believe in the first place.
Anon 7:59 agree. But never in Merie’s cult.
Behaviors identify both the righteous and the wicked. The righteous learn through the scriptures to first restrain their desires then secondly to refine their desires; i.e. a person can have only one spouse this is an accepted restraint with the righteous, then they choose out the best person in the world to marry this is refining the desire. The wicked are just the opposite they have wanton desires and then debase their desires, i.e. they will live the lifestyle of fornication and then seek out the basest people to spend time around. You choose your life good or bad and the highest quality lifestyle one can choose is Christianity full of love, joy, and peace; even though you are poor.
Sherry D. It would be interesting for the military in those communities to know actually the truth about Merie’s cult. We know they want any new converts from the military to get out ASAP. We know the cults teaching on being in the military is anti-military and ant-hope of salvation. I’d love to take a contingency of military members to s nonmember class and tell them what questions to ask after class. Maybe I’ll
plant some nonmembers in there classes with loaded questions. Lol
In Proverbs 6:12-15 it tells of a wicked person and the associated behaviors. To understand the Proverbs you must apply them and a very well know wicked man would be Hitler. Hitler walked with a forward mouth (forward being contrary) he called for three different elections in 1932 until he got what he wanted. He winketh with his eyes, a wink means I like you and want to be your friend which Hitler did in his rise to power he used charm on religious leaders, business leaders, and political leaders and military leaders until he got the power he was after. He speaketh with his feet; the mouth lies but the feet never do. Idle feet means you are not working, irregaurdless of what you say, some feet run to evil, some feet are wandering. Animals have wandering feet and they have to be fenced in or out to be controlled, as the bird by wandering (Pr 26:2) so the curse causeless shall not come and person who lacks moral boundaries has curse wander into their lives. Hitler said with his mouth that he was not going to attack Belgium or Norway and was on his way to talk peace with them but his train went in the other direction and the next day the Germans attacked and defeated both Belgium in the same day they were totally unprepared having believed his mouth and not his feet. He teaches with his fingers means that the wicked use writing to spread their evil ways. Hitler wrote Mien Kamp and sold over nine million copies by 1943 making him a millionaire; he taught the German people what he was going to do through his writing. Other things are written also like movie scripts and several propaganda movies were produced to spread the acceptance of evil behavior. Song are also written to encourage evil behavior. Frowardness is in his heart, Hitler would not listen to reason and would fly into a rage when told by his Generals the reality of different battles he was contrary to them choosing to believe what he wanted. He deviseth mischief continually, Hitler was always conducting power plays among his senior staff, no one was safe from his games. His calamity shall come suddenly and shall be broken without remedy. Hitler had created so many enemies that in the end he could not fix anything he had created, his hatred destroyed him permanently.
Everyone needs to walk away. What would happen then? Walk away and change things! Then there would be an empty heaven? Lol.. and leave the top dog bullies with no income! Waiting for the day!
Anon I think most of us here have walked away. Unfortunately it's those we dearly love who have not, so we are hoping to expose this place for what it is: a place that is truly "off" and following a woman's teachings, Merie Weiss. Maybe one day they will see that they are not truly following Christ's example of love, mercy, and forgiveness, nor do they give any room for God's grace (which has no place or understanding there); all because one lady decided to focus instead on punishing and publicly reproving her brethren, as well as making so many rules where the Bible clearly gives us freedoms to choose. Instead, the choice there has become "Follow us and our rules or you're on your way to Hell." I'd rather follow Christ and be on my way to Heaven.
PT Barnum had it right." There's …..born every minute"
The SCOC is Circus Church, full of clowns performing for the crowds of of ticket buyers. Of course the price that SCOC cult members pay is much more than what Mr Barnum charged. And even though the circus crowds knew Mr Barnum's attractions were "Fake", they came back time and again to be entertained. Just like the wide-eyed believers in the cult's ring master, they are fooled to the point of believing the unbelievable.
At least Mr Barnum left people with feelings of happiness and gave families a place to share joy.
The cult treats their on-lookers like the circus animals, Verbally whipping them into submission and caging them for their life.
Hopefully the tent of this circus is collapsing 🙂
Money is a weak foundation to build a relationship upon in fact it behaves just like sand. In good times it holds up but when trouble arises the relationship built upon money collapses as the money goes away.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone! Today is a very special year for me as my son,grandson and great grandson will be spending Thanksgiving with us and I am so grateful. It would not be happening if they had not left left this cult. Unfortunately we still have three in the family traveling to the meeting in California. What a joy it will be when we are all together again and I know we will. I know God knows all about the situation and I trust in His timing our prayers will be answered. Enjoy the weekend!
I hope you have gotten the book "combatting cult mind control " by Steve Hassan in it he explains the practice of phobia indoctrination. One woman after having left the Moonies 12 years earlier was afraid to have children and did not know why. Steve Hassan explained to her she was taught that if you ever leave the Moonies all you children will be stillborn and thus she was afraid to have children 12 years after leaving the Moonies. Ask you family members what they were told would happen to them if the left the Merie group and then explain the practice of phobia indoctrination and how it is used to enslave people to their religion. Cults also change the meanings of words this is called cult speak. In the SCOC we were taught that love was seen in hateful behaviors such as public humiliation, public rebuking's, insults. When you say "I love you" to a former SCOC member they will recoil in fear because in the SCOC love hurts. You have to go back to square one and explain what love is and which behaviors it is seen in and what hate is and which behaviors it is also seen in and explain that while they said they were doing the teaching out of love it was actually hateful and harmful behaviors. The holidays are a strange time for me and my family because if I say "I love you " my children will withdraw and go into the other room.
That is very sad that has happened to you. I don’t think it is happening here in the local sect but would be curious to know if it is as it may explain some things to me. What area are you from? The holidays have been strange for our family for many years since we still have many family members still in the cult.
Phoenix area. Many of the members children were physically, verbally, and spiritually abused, and that by members who were in a leadership position and not the child's parents. Children were told that children outside the SCOC go to Hell when they die, and this made them believe they might go to Hell as well. Now adults my children have a hard time accepting love from others due to prior bad experiences from leaders in the Phoenix congregation. As adults they avoid religion due to prior bad experiences as well. Trying to talk about the bible or virtues causes them to withdraw themselves, long lasting is the curse of abuse. Phoenix was not the only congregation under oppression, Stanton California, Tacoma Washington and others have had a long history of oppression. My work with them involves great patience and a constant good example of kindness.
Why is it they have to try to control members and have meetings etc on all the holidays.. that just causes extra money to be spent.. Why don't they just leave people alone.. Because probably 80% of these people really want nothing to do with having to go to church to this garbage anyways… They just follow along like a good slave.. Just leave them alone..
Why? In the book "Malignant Pied Piers of out times a psychological study of destructive cult leaders from Rev. Jim Jones to Osama Bin Laden" (12.59 on amazon) explains the motivation. These people are trying to prove to themselves that they are not the wicked wretched despicable people they once were. Their outward show is meant to calm their inward fears to themselves. Christ spoke of these kind of people in Mathew 7:22-24 Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils and done many wonderful works? I will say unto them depart from me ye that work iniquity. A Christian is suppose to follow Christ and seek to do the will of God and not their own will. You must accept the fact that you are only human and everybody has weakness and needs the guidance of God everyday instead of proudly proclaiming "I will do this for God!" to prove to themselves they are righteous. Follow God and accept the fact you are only human and you won't feel the need to do proud works.
I don't have that kind of fear of God to not be able to be a family in my home more instead of being in a slave training camp.. all I know is thank goodness I wasn't born with this type of fear.. I can't even imagine what it would be like to live like that.. If I don't make it I don't make it LOL
What is the reason they do not celebrate holidays and have to go to church meetings?
Concerned Outsider: The group claims that since the bible doesn't tell us to celebrate the holidays, then we can't. they even take a few scriptures-out of context-to prove that God is against holidays.
However, they do allow members to celebrate birthdays! Another one of their contradictions. The bible is silent on that one too, and yet it's ok. BUT, you aren't suppose to celebrate with anyone except family, as they aren't suppose to involve fellow members in those kind of carnal activities. They claim it may cause "preferring", which they teach against also. It's considered a sin to like someone more than another, and to act on it!
As to church meetings, you are required to attend, unless you are ill or babysitting for that meeting. It's considered to be as necessary as a bible class. The "talks" given by chosen men are recorded so that the babysitters can still listen to them and be "edified".
You are expected to "make a stand" with your job, to get the time off for the meeting. If you don't, then you are considered "carnal" and you will hear about it in class/worship. This means that even if you are threatened with the loss of your job, you are suppose to still go to the meeting. One time, I was "counselled" that I had to make the stand with my job, even though it meant that I was doing it so that I could babysit for that meeting!
Before I left, there were "debates" about that issue, if people had to make that stand with their jobs or not. The resolution may be that it's now ok, I don't know. But at the time I left, ones were still expected to make that stand.
Hope this explanation helps! If my info is no longer correct, I hope that someone will let us know!
How sad! And even sadder people actually believe and follow this and their children grow up this way. If they leave when they become adults holidays will be so foreign to them. What a way to live. Or should I say to NOT live. Reminds me so much of the Amish and how many go wild and ruin their lives when given some freedom.
Debby, they must have loosened the "rules" on birthdays because I've been to a member's kid's birthday where practically the whole church was there. I have witnessed plenty of horrible treatment of the children though. Makes me sad. I know when they are older they are going to seek out love from anyone who shows them any attention.
I have seen the same "wild" behavior in the Mormon community I was raised in. The entire community in Utah is controlled from the schools, to what songs play on the radio, to movies only being shown once that do not meet LDS church standards, to the TV shows that play, everything is under the control of the LDS church. When the young men and women leave home at eighteen to go to college or join the military they do indeed go wild like uncorking a soda bottle after it has been shook up. The teaching of virtue or Godly principles does go on and is enforced by parents and other members in the community, however when the external enforcement is removed the children explode into sinful behavior, as if they had never been taught any virtue. When I entered the SCOC I was internally directed, that is self disciplined, self motivated, purpose driven this however was reproved out of me. I was constantly criticized until I reached a point of doing nothing unless I was specifically told to do so; I went from being internally directed to outwardly directed; I became a church slave. Today I can look back and see every one in the SCOC was brought under oppressive control of the leaders, a church full of people who do not know the Bible but rather only to obey leadership, and when they leave the externally controlled environment they go into sinful behavior twice as fast as non believers, it is truly sad. I teach my children to follow the commandments of Jesus but I do not force it upon them but gently guide them toward God.
In behavior modification there are two things that increase a behavior: positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement. There are two things that decrease a behavior positive punishment and negative punishment. When a child nags his mother for a sweet and the mother give in and give the child a sweet she has just positively reinforced the child's bad behavior. One of the greatest rewards you can give a person is attention; when someone is misbehaving and you pay attention to them you have just positively reinforced their bad behavior. The quickest way to stop an unwanted behavior is to not give it any attention, ignore the misbehaving person. A negative punishment is when something is taken away from a person for bad behavior such as the loss of freedom, loss of a job, loss of a spouse. A positive punishment is when something is added to a person that they do not want such as an illegitimate child or incurable disease. The strange woman mentioned in Proverbs 5:1-14 brings with her hidden curses. It is wise to abstain from fornication to avoid the addition of unwanted curses to one's life. God's word is true and blesses those who follow it with peace, reject the stranger who wants fornication and save yourself from many a curse.
Romans 14:5,6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Concerned Outsider. Concerning holidays it would be good to know if the Churches of Christ’s we’re celebrating them during Merie’s time. I’d heard that not celebrating them was unique to Merie. I can certainly be corrected on that. Bdays at least in Portland the ladies will get together after ladies class or personal work during the months when members have Bday’s. Likewise the children get together to celebrate one another’s Bdays. Portland and Tacoma for the past few years have been getting together to celebrate graduation of HS graduates for that year. Which I think all is great doing this. When I first came around these people it was said they pray together and not play together. Debby at least in Portland there is preferring. With all the negative I’ve commented about this cult there is also positives about them. However, the positives are all in vain when the evil practices and teachings continue. If you transgress the doctrine of Christ you have not God. This cult transgresses Jesus doctrine in multiple ways. Conclusion they have not God which concludes they have not Jesus. No Jesus no forgiveness of there sins. No forgiveness of sins no hope of heaven.
I am studying faith verse fatalism this week. Fatalism is a philosophy which states that all things are predetermined and there is nothing one can do to change the future. Fatalism is seen in a lack of effort or action in the face of adversity or difficulty. Any input in identifying and overcoming fatalism would be appreciated.
Fatalism is a philosophical doctrine that stresses an attitude of resignation in the face of some future event. It also stresses that acceptance is appropriate, rather than resistance against the inevitable. In my time in the SCOC the fatalistic attitude was encouraged not openly but subtly. I was taught from day one that all people, all other religions outside the SCOC were deceived and going to Hell; they had no hope of salvation. Then in time I was also taught that no one inside the SCOC was worthy of Heaven and this was done through the weekly condemnation of members who had sinned, or gone astray, or rebelled, or some other terrible act had damned them. I never heard a story of someone dying faithful and going to Heaven. This constant condemnation of both outsiders and insiders led to the belief that there is no hope of Heaven not outside the SCOC and not inside the SCOC, no one made it to Heaven in their teachings. Since leaving I have learned that Fatalism is a false philosophical argument and a terrible way to live. In the face of adversity the fatalistic do nothing and simply accept the fact that they are going to Hell instead of making effort or taking action to change the path they are on. In the Bible there are account of both people accepting their fate and doing nothing and those who through faith resisted the evil they faced and won. God does indeed exist and he richly rewards those who seek him, reject fatalistic attitudes put forth from overbearing teachers and seek out God for yourself, you won't be disappointed.
How depressing to stay in a church/cult like this? Doesn’t it make you wonder why so many have health issues? Stomach aches,stomach problems,headaches,backaches? It makes my skin crawl just to read about it and having some family members still involved.
Yes, and some think their health issues are from God as trials in life. So many in this sector have health issues. When I was there my gut was on fire. The minute I left not a pain existed. No joke. 9 years of pure health I've had now and loving it. But those minds have way more fear than I'll ever begin to know and I'm very thankful for that LOL
Today's lesson was on the wanton and the chaste minds. Wanton and chaste are the end products; the fruits of a tree. People who live a restrained life become chaste people, and people who live an unrestrained life become wanton people. Without a law to follow man goes after his lust and pride with zeal, and corrupts himself more and more; with a law to follow man restrains himself, and become more and more righteous. The wanton become the baser people of society rejected because of their excess behaviors and the chaste become the respected members of a society because of their self control. Christians have a perfect law to follow that free's them from the bondage and humiliation that sin brings. When a person follows God's law first in their heart then the rewards of living a godly life follow in the outward life. Good things come to those who follow God and evil to those who follow after their own lusts and pride.
Many Christians have a love of God but what they lack is a hatred of evil. In Proverbs 8 God teaches us that if we are to personify wisdom as he does, then we are to have certain behaviors. In Pr 8:8 it say that wisdom (and those who personify wisdom) have nothing froward or perverse in their mouth. In Pr 8:13 it says the fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth. To be wise you must learn first to hate evil in yourself then you can teach others to hate evil in themselves. I have a security guard at work who generously shares his opinions and he told me this morning that the solution to our nations problem is to nuke Washington D.C. with all the elected officials there. His attitude is one of despising people in authority, when a wise person will respect authority as a necessary force for good. Until one learns to restrain their desires they will lack understanding and it is displayed by the despising of dominion, that is, those in authority. The first step in hating evil in oneself therefore is to restrain your desires in your mind, become single minded, and reject the advice of those who do not restrain themselves; namely the wanton. The wanton revel in their "freedom" and exhort others to enjoy all the pleasures they can, not realizing that too much freedom leads to self destruction. Once a person restrains their desires and becomes chaste the wanton will be seen for the fools they make themselves to be.
All the world is a reflection of the inner mind. Ask a child what shapes they see in the clouds and they will tell you they see puppies or kittens or perhaps cartoon characters; things from the life of a child. Ask an adult male they same question and they will tell you that the see guns or women may say they see hearts; what they see in the outer world is a reflection of the inner world of their minds. The Bible is also a reflection or a mirror of the mind. In my studies in Proverbs today, (and I study proverbs a lot because my first teacher use to tell me often that I was a fool) The word that stuck out to me the most was haste. Haste is defined as doing things with excessive speed , in a hurry. After I was first baptized my teacher started telling stories of how he gave his first talk at two weeks and it was on common courtesy. The young men were hastely pushed into the pulpit without any training or preparation or mentoring. This fast track into preaching caused the young men to be dependent upon the teacher for understandings and therefore under the teachers direct control; the sharing preachers were simply parrots of their teachers having little to no knowledge of how to preach or what to teach. This haste method did not produce preachers capable of edifying the church but rather low quality and repetitive sermons. One man, a Mexican immigrant who work at a semi truck dealership gave the same lesson time after time about his criminal teenage years and how he suffered from his own foolishness. The lack of scriptures, the lack of understanding, the fear of being wrong created one boring preacher. How does one develop into a quality leader, teacher, or preacher? It takes time and a lot of study and trial and error. To shorten this learning curve the young men could be mentored by an older experienced preacher who could share what to say and what not to say. I never found this older mentor in my time in the church, haste did indeed make waste in the area of preachers. I have found that there is just not enough seasoned Christians to meet the needs of a spiritually hungry church.
And no formal training. Just the same misinformed preachers teaching the wrong teachings to the followers and so it is a cycle over and over. Keeping them dumbed down until someone is finally brave enough to branch out and visit another healthy church and see what they have missed out in the love of the Lord.
Today's lesson was deep, it was on maintaining the fields of our minds. Our thoughts come from our desires, we think about what we desire. Ruminating is a type of habitual behavior where a person thinks about the same thing over and over without ever reaching a conclusion. Children who have suffered abuse ruminate about the abuse in an attempt to lessen it and thus feel safe. Adults ruminate also but not to feel safe but to feel superior or comfortable. The desire is to have a feeling and thus the thoughts that bring the feeling of superiority or the desired comfort are repeated constantly without conclusion; again the lack of conclusion is because the desire is for a feeling and not a final outcome. In the SCOC many were abused by those in leadership and they develop the curse of ruminating about how they would like to deal with the abusive leaders if they could get the chance to. Mark 9:44 and 46 talk about a worm that never dies in the after life; that worm is the habitual behavior of ruminating. Like playing a continuous loop tape it just repeats the same thoughts over and over again like a worm going round and round non stop. The scripture do imply that the worm can die and it is in this life that we can overcome ruminating by simply changing our desires. If you stop desiring superiority over your abusers and follow the behavior path set down by Jesus Christ and desire to treat them as equals then the ruminating will stop. Everybody makes mistakes some by accident and some on purpose to hurt others but regardless of the motive everyone needs time to see their sin and repent. Christ was patient with his fellow man and willing suffered the abuse of others so that in the end those that follow his example might join him in heaven one day. Treating the wicked as equals is difficult but it is the golden rule, treat others how you would want to be treated irregardless if they are wicked or righteous. Kill the worm of ruminating in this life by following the example of Jesus.
Concerned Outsider exactly. Unbelievable the miss information this cult feeds you from the very beginnings in nonmember classes concerning other religions. One point saying other religions do not teach on sin. Untrue. That’s not my experience with where I attend. They put down other religions constantly. Why, obviously to lift themselves up as superior to others. Far from the truth as well. Also to instill fear in members so they will not leave with the very false claim as being the one and only true church. Laughable as the title of this article rings true about Merie’s cult. The real off church.
An euphemism is a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be to harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing. Take Psalms 22:21 for example when Christ said save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns; in context it is referring to Christ on the cross crying to God as he was dying and the horns are the nails in his hands and feet and the lion is Satan waiting to devour Christ. It is softer than what actually happened it is a euphemism. The love is God is seen in that he hears the faithful when they call upon him, even when they are calling to him upon their deathbeds. God is always there just call upon him in your time of need and you will understand.
Wow.. just wow. This thread is going in so many directions, I plan on responding to something and then get taken down several other paths.
I want to be a voice for those of us raised in the church and now trying to figure life out.. I'm in my 30s so the church of the 80s/90s/00s completely formed who I once was. I left my family a broken soul- not only getting beaten down (physically and spiritually) from since I can remember- but never getting the chance to develop a healthy identity SEPERATE from what it's like to live and believe in this sect.
I'd like to guess that the reason the voice of "us" is rarely shared on here is that we are still in so much pain and confusion. Many have mentioned that it has taken a long time to overcome much of the trauma this sect dealt.
Imagine having no prior awareness of this way of living to connect to.. many of us run when we can and don't look back. Reasons we do look back is for the people we love or maybe getting shamed into joining.
From a personal standpoint- I have lived through layers and layers of trauma that were in "God's" will and name. Because of this, I completely despised any and everything that remotely had to do with him. I'd have panic attacks or emotional breakdowns from triggers of just visiting churches not of this sect. It took me down a dark, lonely, suicidal path that was not remote to me, but shared by my siblings and others I grew up with. Thankfully I have had people (not from this sect) who I believe God has put in my life to gently, delicately show me who God is and how to begin to build a relationship with him despite the traumas.
I believe that as I get stronger in my faith- part of my calling will be to share my testimony and minister to others out there like me, those who need and may be wanting to know who God really is. Right now, I'm simply studying, praying, and letting him and his gift that I received at babtism (out of this sect) guide me.
Please keep the children of this church, both physically and now grown, in your prayers. We have trials that you may never be able to understand.
Anonymous, thank you for posting this little bit of your story. I am hopeful that while you suffered much and even despised the things of God, you are now healing.
I joined as an adult but I fought it for years. I remember telling my ex there was something wrong with so many kids there. Many teens were rebellious and just looked beat down and angry. I had previously gone to a regular COC and I told my ex (in telling him I didn't want my kids to end up like that) the kids there were much happier and respected their parents. You know what he told me? He said "Of course they don't rebel, they give them everything they want. What is there to rebel or be angry about?" I never asked him but I felt like that was his opinion based on what he'd already been taught at Merie's Church. They were almost proud that their kids were miserable. It was like a badge of honor that you are putting God first.
One mom often repeated that her kids had to be sinners before they became Christians. That made me sad. How much sin do your adult children need to get into before you realize that they're not joining because of how ugly this place is?
I now have contact with a few adult kids in the sect. I wasn't real close to any of them in the sect. Sometimes I treated them like a disease because I was worried about the influence on my own. But now I sort of understand what they were going through. Now I see why they are angry and hurt. I hope I can be of support to any who I did not help while I was in Merie's church. I truly wish I'd had a more positive relationship with them sooner.
Please keep us updated on your progress. Everyone likes a happy ending in the face of terrible challenges. 🙂
To clarify my statement "It was like a badge of honor that you are putting God first" I meant thru the eyes of Merie's sect. Put all works above your family, obey counsel, etc. That always comes first before your family's needs.