I’m really excited that Donna Bennum was brave enough to record and share this video about her time in the Stanton Church of Christ. I think God is using her and her family to share the grace-filled message of Jesus with current and former Stanton members.
She has come out of it and rebuilt her relationship with the God of the Bible, and I’ve been privileged to see—only through online interactions, so far—the fruit of her new life. Her daughter, who was previously turned off to God, was baptized. Donna’s story has impacted a lot of people, and everyone reading this blog ought to invest 15 minutes to watch this to the end. Also, please subscribe to her YouTube channel and comment to encourage her.
I’m personally going through a season where the blog has to take second place in my prioritization of time. We’re adopting a 15 y.o. into our family, bringing the number of kids to eight (mostly adults now, BTW). I love you all, but my first ministry is to my family. After them, you come first! 
All I can say is WOW! My husband and I watched this video, and Donna you are spot on. Thank you for being brave enough to share with us! May God bless this and may it get out to ones who need to see it!
Thanks Debbie. There is so much more to say. Please share
Great job, Donna, and I am grateful for those like you and others, who have been brave enough to share their stories!
Donna, What did they have to say about all of this after your baby was born early etc? I was reading back where women had to get permission even for a hysterectomy, and that makes me physically ill. So sorry this happened to you. I was married to one still in Stanton and can not wait until the day it all goes poof! I was in the church also for a short time and watched how the preachers wanted you to tattle on each other.. They thrived on that
Anon 9:17 We went to the preacher later on- he said he didn't remember ANYTHING about it. I had gone to him after he preached the Epaphraditis sermon and he did not deny it was said for me.
And yes, when a woman feels she needs to get her tubes tired or a hysterectomy- she has to get "counsel" from a counselor of the cult or she will feel the repercussions.
A month after this baby was born, we were at our house and the men were getting ready to go on personal work, my baby turned blue. My husband, along with everyone else there , went on personal work while I took my baby BY MYSELF to the hospital with my hand on her chest. She was admitted for a week and diagnosed with Central Sleep Apnea. Personal Work was more important.
Debby you should do one too. I always like your comments and have a good way about you. Think about it.
Thank you Donna for making these videos. Sometimes it feels much more powerful when people share these things with their own voice instead of typed words.
I havn't heard anything on my end about anyone talking about these videos. My guess is they know but don't want to say anything or they are talking about it but it hasn't spread far yet.
I will pray for both you and your husband!
Congratulations on your new adoption. You are quite an inspiration.
Thank you Donna. I’m sharing this with my Facebook friends. I may do one of my own.
I hope you do Craig. There is so much more that needs to be said. It’s amazing that some young people who still attend are in such great denial. There is so much more to God and life with Him in FREEDOM.
Very interesting, Donna. While I largely agree with what you have written, calling them a cult seems over the top, and I was there for the first 32 years of my life.
The doctrinal issues we largely agree on. Teachers saying and doing anything they wish, with absolutely no SEPARATION OF POWERS AND CHECKS AND BALANCES, leads to arbitrary decisions, and huge conflicts of interests, where evangelists who are paid by wealthy preachers who run congregations, are expected to have oversight over them. How does that work?
Also, they don't agree in self-defense or the military. How can this be possible if we are in a nation that would have been impossible without men exercising their right to bear arms? And the Founders of America knew their Bibles a lot better than Stanton knows theirs, and the Founders knew their history a lot better to boot. They are well intentioned, and have many wonderful people, but unfortunately, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The teachers too often diagnose those who have 'lost their minds', and they write them off completely. There are people who still attend who were once diagnosed as having 'lost their mind'. How do you even determine who has 'lost their mind', and exactly what does that even mean?
Also, a favorite tactic is to label anyone who disagrees as 'carnal', and to tell them if they want to be spiritual, they need to listen to what the 'spiritual' teacher says. Of course, there is quite a bit of authentic spirituality in Stanton, as opposed to a very carnal world we are in, but if things are not done in moderation, even spirituality can go overboard.
Once you disagree with a teacher, you are toast. You can do any sin, but if you dissent against a teacher, it's cheerio for you. The Bible says follow teachers if they follow God, but if you try to determine this for yourself, you are told you are proud, stubborn, and referred to Korah.
'They teach you not to trust your intellect'.
So very well said, Donna!!! This is so true. You are taught NOT to think for yourself. With these rules, it's a wonder that there aren't major abuses happening. If you can't think for yourself, you are basically the plaything of the leaders. With many churches in America the problem is money, where preachers are paid fortunes. In Stanton, the problem is power. It was supposed to be used to help the weak, and chasten the proud, but not in Stanton, where the weak are routinely pulverized and destroyed.
Let’s see where the children are in twenty years. Most of them leave at 18 or soon after having all that oppression during their growing years. Some have no emotions haven’t you noticed while others go to drugs and alcohol to numb their pain and get in trouble with the law. They have been dumbed down so they will stay with the church or go back because they fear the outside. I hate to sound so negative but it is true. By Donna’s exposure maybe more will come forward like so many others on cults for documentaries. I sure hope so before many more children’s lives get ruined.
Children need adults to find solutions for their problems and to provide protection for them. In the SCOC an adult is discouraged from using their intellect that God gave them but rather to "seek counsel" so the leaders can solve your problems for you. This leaves the child minded adult open to exploitation by others. It is better to teach moral laws and have others apply them in their own lives and develop their own understandings on how to live a Godly life rather than be an ignorant follower of others.
AnonymousFebruary 7, 2019 at 10:51 AM
Profoundly well said. Stanton taught so often about 'receiving instruction' from your teachers, and 'receiving counsel'. Nothing wrong with that as long as following it is not a commandment. But in Stanton, it was a commandment, and if you didn't follow it, often, you'd get rebuked, and publicly humiliated. I personally was rebuked for going to counsel in private, being told I had done everything fine in a situation, and was then blasted out for being covetous in public at a November meeting. Since some may question if what I did was covetous, let me explain the situation and let you come to your own conclusion.
I'm in insurance. I sell life insurance. A client had come to me and discussed life insurance, and had not bought it. A little later, she had come to the office, and discussed life insurance with my co-worker, and again did not buy it. She then came in a third time, and said she wanted to buy the life insurance, and spoke to me. So, I thought, since she spoke to me first, and agreed to finally buy from me, that the policy was mine. Well, my co-worker got disturbed by this, and thought she deserved the policy. I didn't think so, and when I went to lunch, I thought about it, was reminded of Abraham and Lot, and how Abraham gave Lot what he wanted, and didn't fight for it, and ended up getting a great deal anyway, as he didn't get Sodom and Gomorrah. So, I went back to the office, and my boss called me into his office. He explained the situation, and said my co-worker had complained to him. I told him I had thought about it, and had decided I'd give half the commission to her, even though I'd talked to the client first, and sold the policy. Well, then I called my teacher to go over it and see what he thought. After discussing it with him, he said he didn't see anything I'd done wrong. So, I went on. Next thing I know, I'm sitting in a November Trip, next to my brother, and the teacher brings this out in front of everyone, without using my name, but in such detail he may as well be using my name, and says I'm an individual that needs to look into covetousness! I was shocked, embarrassed, and humiliated all at the same time. I didn't know how to respond, because the way the church is set up, if you express dissatisfaction with a teacher, that's considered 'murmuring', and 'sowing seeds of discord'. Knowing this, I kept quiet, but I knew resentment was not healthy, and resolved to tell him in private that I did not appreciate this. Next thing I know, I'm being told not to share in class, and a few months later, after bringing this to him in private, with a few other issues, I'm promptly withdrawn from and labelled a rebellious trouble maker. All the good I had ever done is erased, and the same teacher tells the combined churches at the next November Meeting, that I had never in my life said anything spiritual.
So, you are right, they encourage going for counsel, but as you can see, it can have disastrous results. A great organization, as you say is to teach moral laws and have others apply them and develop their own understandings, rather than to develop mindless drones and functionaries. God did not want a church full of automatons, but Stanton promotes those who attend to become automatons. They discourage individual initiative, particularly in business, and speak more highly of government welfare than owning your own business. At the same time they strongly encourage going for counsel, and you will get rebuked for not going to counsel. I think it's a great idea to go to those older and wiser for advice, but I need the freedom to fail and learn from my mistakes. It's part of being human.
Exactly what makes these so called “counsels” so wise? Surely not their education as the church does not promote education. How does the preacher/teacher have enough time to take care of their own families if they are so busy sticking their noses into everyone’s business and marriages. Just asking?
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They represent they are the only messengers on earth for God. According to them, if you want to know God's opinion on any topic, they are the only ones on earth that can give it to you. GP routinely started May Trips off by saying the people in the room were the only leaders on earth, out of 7 billion humans, that were on their way to heaven, with their churches. No pride there.
I seem to remember similar sentiments about being the spokesman for God about 1,400 years ago, from a man, and I'm having a hard time remembering his name. What was his name again? Oh yes, that's right, his name was Muhammad and he started Islam, and it's been a total dumpster fire for 1,400 years!
That said, I agree with Teddy Roosevelt, that a thorough knowledge of the Bible is better than a college education. I'd take the Bible education of the members of Stanton over the college education of anyone in America any day. And that's pretty scary, and pretty indicative of the frightening state our nation and churches are in.
Yes, it's amazing they have time to take care of their own families. Constantly rebuking others, and meddling in their affairs when not asked. Of course, a leader of a church, which is supposed to be a MAN, is supposed to know the state of his flock, no doubt, but when you are interfering in the sex acts that a married couple enjoys in marriage, there is something seriously wrong!! How in the world their teachers had the audacity a few decades ago to ask married couples about their sex habits, and to then GO ON AND WITHDRAW FROM THOSE WHOSE SEX HABITS DIDN'T MEET THEIR CRITERIA FOR DEFILEMENT OF THE MARRIAGE BED IS A CRYING SHAME AND A DISGRACE AND THEY OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES!!!!
The first sentence about being the only messengers on earth,etc. is a clue that this is a whacked out church. And I would have left immediately. I visited several churches before I chose my home church and some had a not a good fit for one reason or another and some were strange but after reading this blog this is the strangest I could have ever imagined and so sad my daughter in law is still in it����������. She is a wonderful person and so deceived.
Monte Cristo- I appreciate your input but I think cult is an acceptable description for a religious group that had caused so much destruction on individuals and families. One of the areas I want to address is how Stanton holds men from supporting their families mostly due to the manditory schedule they hold.
I don’t know if you are aware that Bill got a degree in Forensics and Law Enforrcement but was never able to pursue it because Stanton told Bill he could not carry a gun, much less, be in a position to have to kill someone with it. I totally agree with your understanding on military and self defense. “Put Up Thy Sword” was written with twisted scriptures and warped understandings, yet Stanton upholds this booklet as ‘gospel’.
Many more within Stanton are opening their eyes to the heresies they are being taught.
Holy Moly!! Monte Cristo, I find myself agreeing with what you just said about the structure and direction of the SCOC oppression. Please make your own YouTube and repeat the words you just used about them
Donna's YouTube is a Great Sword put up against the evil SCOC cult. Give her your support from your own 32 years of oppression.
Donna Bless You for your courage.
From a dedicated Heathen
KF
What mental morons we have been in this struggle with the COC and now Donna has show everyone here what we all missed. The COC keeps all their communication private and forbids it's cult members to use modern worldly methods.
You nailed it Donna. YouTube will finish off this evil cult. You are brilliant and so brave. Be prepared for their wrath and reach. You will have protection also from those who see the video. Your words are so pure and exact.
Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou
Ken- Lol! Thanks for the comments. My hope is to help others leave and support those who have. There is SOOO much more to tell! Let's all tell our stories on UTube. I really want to make a video about how the cult keeps men from supporting their families, and takes authority from the men in the cult (as well as the women) by determining the self-worth of individuals by whether they are accepted of the teachers.
Take care Ken! I will always remember the pilot announcing our anniversary in flight! We have been married 40 years now, Bill is still in the cult, but not for long…
Donna that whole topic of taking authority from men and determining the self-worth of people is spot on. I know people in the cult who have felt completely worthless because their teachers found everything wrong with them (and then made sure everyone else spotted that person's flaws as well). Never good enough for marriage, not helping others enough, not enough personal work, not sacrificing a number of things enough, you're not good enough for God to love you, basically. These are the same people the world was beating down and they come for love and at first it is given and then taken away once you're completely sucked in. I look forward to another video!
That is very true, Donna.
I experienced that first hand. I was in the Navy, and had a great career in front of me. But, when I joined, they put a lot of pressure on me that Christians don't fight wars, and we don't use guns. I read Merie's book 'Put up thy sword', and it made sense to me then, not now. For, if the world had followed her silly advice, Hitler, Mao, and Stalin would have all conquered the world and never been stopped. Of course, avoiding senseless violence makes perfect sense. But, there are evil people in the world. In Christ's day, there was no voting, and so pursuing nonviolence to avoid being put to death by Rome was a wise thing. Today, we were founded by men who picked up guns in the American Revolutionary War. I would be retiring from the Navy this year, but unfortunately, I got a Conscientious Objector when I was 21. Lessons learned. I'm now applying to be a police officer.
And they really do keep men from supporting families. We are not supposed to provide careers, but the church pushed welfare!!! They said welfare was a blessing from God!!! What!!! Where is that in the Bible!!!?? Actually, there should be no welfare in America, because the job of helping the sick and the poor is the job of ANYBODY and EVERYBODY but the government. Yet, there are millionaires in the church, and they have people in their congregations on Democrat welfare!!! Hypocrites!!!
Paul said if a man doesn't provide for his family, he is worse than a heathen. But the church encourages dependency on the government and teachers. Also, if God said to provide for your family, why would he not also expect you to protect your family with guns, if necessary? Makes zero sense.
The men become emasculated. I remember in Stanton, for the longest time, they had a woman teacher, and she was quite a powerful figure. She had and has many good attributes, but being in subjection was not one of them. She dominated that church. She didn't realize a woman's place is to teach other women and children, not to teach men. And so the entire church stagnated. There were nearly 50 men going there, and practically no preachers. Nearly every class she would dominate the classes and the men would sit meekly and listen. She'd constantly harp on men's weaknesses, masturbation and porn, but wouldn't adhere to God's design, which was for the woman to be in SUBJECTION to her husband, which would have solved a lot of the problems that drove men to masturbation and porn in the first place. When a man can't be the head of his household, he will often head for the fantasy world of porn, where he can be in control, even if it's fake. Kind of sad. How tragic that a woman pushes a man to sin by her failure to obey God. Paul clearly said not to defraud, and I know a lot of that was going on in the church. Women use sex to control men quite a bit, and as a result they set men up for temptation. Then, when the men fall, the women jump all over them. Of course, no one is authorized to sin, ever, for any reason, but God's design is perfect and is in accord with nature and reason. A man was supposed to be pleased and satisfied with his wife alone. Today, we live in a death culture, where men and women both think having children is some kind of burden, instead of the blessing God designed children to be. I was at a school board meeting last night, and they have gone from 20,000 children 20 years ago, to 12,000 kids attending today. It's like a Holocaust. Yet, that is what porn, contraception, abortion, and homosexuality have done to our society, and rarely do people want to talk about it. They constantly say, 'Don't judge' as their society dies.
And the men have had their authority taken from them, as M Long said. There were many single women, who were taught not to forgive their unfaithful husbands. So they raised kids alone, and their children often did not adjust well. Stanton is full of single mothers raising children, who are taught not to respect and obey their husbands. If a husband doesn't go along with Stanton, the church uses the woman as a pawn against her husband, instead of teaching her to behave towards him as Paul commanded towards the unbelieving spouse.
Also, when men aren't taught to love their wives and provide for them, and this isn't taught when the church tolerates and promotes government welfare, and women aren't taught to obey their husbands, the result is some pretty dysfunctional marriages. This problem could have been averted if Stanton would just follow the Bible. I used to really love one young woman in Stanton, but now, I'm glad I didn't marry. If I had, it would have been a nightmare. I can see it now. She would have constantly been tattling to the teachers about me and my efforts to provide for my family, or my asserting my God given right to run my home. The men were constantly being derided for not making their wives happy, but rarely were women encouraged to obey their husbands in the Lord. Feminism invaded Stanton. I know other churches of Christ where the men are allowed to lead and teach, as God commanded, and the women only teach other women and children. Men and women are much happier, along with the children.
Montesquieu: Where I was in Florida, it was the men who were not instructed to treat their wives with respect! One woman came for counsel, she had found her husband in the baby's room with another woman, kissing her. What did the teachers do? Rebuked the woman (the wife) and accused her of not pleasing her husband to the point that he had to look for affection elsewhere! Can you imagine? It was turned around on her, that she wasn't in subjection, etc.
Another incident was one woman left her non-member husband. He was bringing illegal drugs into the house, and using them. She didn't want to subject her children to that, and he refused to stop or do it elsewhere. She was afraid the police would find out, and that she would be arrested also!
Well, this NON-MEMBER husband went and complained to the teacher that his wife would not subject herself to him sexually, even tho they were separated. What did the teacher do? He rebuked the wife for not submitting to her husband, even tho they were not living together. She eventually left the group, understandably so.
But I agree that the group places so much demand on the time members must spend doing the work of the group, that it severely limits the man's ability to support his family!
It also severely limits the time that husbands and wives can spend with each other and the children. Yet they teach that Christianity starts in the home!
Again, they forget that God is all about repairing and maintain relationships-with each other as well as with Him. Look at the Old Testament-most of it is about how to make amends when brethren/neighbors have been offended! And what to do when they had offended God!
The two commandments we have been given in the New Testament sums it ALL up-the old law as well as the new-Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commands hangs THE WHOLE LAW.
Merie's group skips over this, and makes themselves busy with making up and following other rules and making them laws.
Wow, Debby, never heard of anything like that on the West Coast. But to excuse a man's lasciviousness by blaming his wife for not being sexually available is a totally bogus excuse. Yes, the Bible does say not to defraud, but a man is never to sin sexually, no matter what. If Joseph could stay faithful in prison, with no outlet, than no man today has any excuse.
That incident with the teachers excusing the non-member husband drug-dealer is totally bogus too. Under no circumstances should a woman be forced to stay, with kids, with a man who is involved with drugs. While she can't remarry, if she divorces him for this reason, yet, she has every right to leave the situation.
Yes, there is too little of a prioritization of family, and they spend too much time on the church. It's great to devote one's life to God, but not at the expense of family. Buddha left his family to become 'enlightened'. Well, Buddhist nation's aren't very enlightened at all as a result. That said, 'Pilgrim's Progress' the 2nd Best selling book of all time, was about a man who told his wife, children, and neighbors about God. When they didn't listen, he left them and went in pursuit of the Celestial City of God. Eventually, his wife and children followed. Yes, God comes first, however, he doesn't want spouses and children neglected.
Montesquieu 11:11 you handled that situation perfectly. Sounds fair to me. Which preacher came at you like that. I can only imagine which one. Terrible. Both the main preachers where you were at have had enough problems of their own. You’d think they would learn from their own errors.
Thank you, Craig! Quite sad, because before this I had a lot of respect for this preacher. He had even taken me into his home for a year when my father and I weren't getting along, at age 16, and I really enjoyed it. But, when this happened, from a trusted figure, that was among the final straws. To trust and confide in someone and to have it blasted out in public, when privately they said you did the right thing was an unconscionable abuse of power, and I simply can't follow someone like that. I'd never dream of doing something like that to another human being, and I certainly never expect someone to do it to me. I don't mind correction, but it ought to be reasonable and fair. The preacher was one who often visited MM, and often had MM visit as well.
While MM had and I'm sure, has, many good attributes, being gentle and patient with the erring wasn't an attribute I noticed he possessed. If one had to determine if his approach resembled the advice of the older men or younger men to Rehoboam, with the older advising patience, and the younger advising severity, his approach definitely resembled the younger's advice, and you see the chaos that happened in Israel and Judah, and the chaos in Stanton as a result.
About MM in Portland-He is not only following the example set him in the group, he is also following the example his own father provided for him. Craig, I don't know if you know MM's history or not, but he was raised by his father. His mother has been in the group for as long as I can remember, but she didn't have custody of him. I remember when he and his brother first came to Portland-MM looked a lot like Michael Jackson! But I remember being told that his father was VERY strict. And I have to wonder if that is why he has very little compassion for his brethren.
I remember when I visited Portland (I have family in Oregon) and MM's wife's father had just been recently withdrawn from. I remember feeling for her, and expressed this to her. Can you imagine not being able to talk with your father (he was in the Idaho congregation) and sharing your children with their grandfather?
But MM didn't seem to have any compassion for his wife in this matter. So much so, it still bothers me to this day.
The group definitely is NOT about relationships, yet that is what God is all about! It's why He sent his Son-to tear down that wall that was between Him and us! To take away the sin that hindered our relationship with Him!
But Merie's group seems to have missed that.
I don't know if HB was one of the preachers you dealt with. I have found him to be so limited in his ability to preach or speak for that matter! How does anyone sit listening to him for Sunday sermons? It was enough having to sit through visits. He literally was difficult to understand and I could not comprehend his words. He's very uneducated in any sense of the word yet teaching others. Sorry, some people just should Not be preaching and he was one of them.
It was definitely difficult to understand him, but Stanton, like all authoritarian organizations, promotes those who it can control. He seemed decent enough to me, and I have friends who he helped out tremendously. It could care less about God given talents a person has, if you can't be controlled by them, you have no future there. It also is very dangerous to learn anything in the Bible that your teachers, GP, or TC have not learned. You will learn to regret it. The pain of trying to explain what the Bible says different from their current teaching has never really been proven to be worthwhile. Instead, it is better to do as they prescribe. 'Put it on the shelf, you'll understand it later'. I tried that, but eventually the shelf got too full, and collapsed.
That said, Paul said it was not his oratory or eloquence that made him fit to preach. There are plenty of televangelists who sound great and look great, yet not one of them is teaching salvation.
I went to one of the biggest Baptist churches in my city, and the preacher is a dynamic, charismatic, and persuasive speaker. Yet, the man has a degree in Critical Race Theory (which is Marxist), has very little humility, and has evinced a grudge against White America. I'd prefer HB to a fraudulent and eloquent preacher like the one I just described. I'd also prefer HB, and so would God, to T.D. Jakes, Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer and the rest of the prosperity frauds out there, who speak so well, and who lead absolutely no one to heaven.
Montesquieu, Well spoken preachers that teach salvation. Neither will you find in Merie’s cult,
Thankfully there are plenty of preachers to be able to hear without resorting to either the extremes of people who just aren't able to get a message across or those who use the gospel to swindle people. The Bible has plenty who were able to get the message God wanted them to. But it also says people have different talents, and sometimes you gotta face the obvious. Craig, you make a great point that they have been desperate. HB came in long ago when they were even more so. Correct, he was a nice man. They are different points.
Anon 6:34. Agree. Very desperate when they put a guy who questioned their baptism multiple times. Turns out he preached for them for six years as a nonmember. Lol. That’s myself I’m speaking about. Portland also had a few teachers in my time who turned out they also were teaching as nonmembers later deciding their baptisms were null and void.
Anon 9:36 Agree HB great guy but hard to understand. I feel for all who had to listen to me as well. I wouldn’t want to listen to me ughhh. Most of the men were unqualified to preach as they have like myself no speaking skills. You’d see many in the audience falling asleep. You don’t find that where I’ve attended since leaving the cult. Well spoken preachers I’ve encountered. Merie’s cult is desperate for preachers.
Montesquieu, quite a bold statement that HB would be preferred by God above the men you mentioned. I’m aware of HB and issues he has had within the cult. Again desperate for men. They throw men up to the pulpit to preach that should not be preaching. Let’s not excuse the biggest lie they preach. That they are the “ one and only true church”. That alone disqualifies all of them. God accepts that?
That may be so, Craig. However, if you compare the churches today with the early American church, the New Testament church, Martin Luther's church, and Alexander Campbell's church, you'll find HB and the preachers in our church, despite the shortcomings amply noted on here, are far closer than 98% of other churches here in America. It's ok to disagree strongly with Stanton while not joining the Biblically ignorant mainstream churches in America.
90% of Christians in America know their hellivision more than their Bible. Not interested in their criticism of Stanton at all. What you find is people complain about Stanton, then run off and celebrate Christmas, which no Christian in America did in 1776. They go to churches that meet for maybe 3 hours on Sunday, whose outreach programs are pathetic, and whose churches are killing themselves off with birth control. That makes zero sense. That's leaving the frying pan of Stanton and jumping into the fire of the mainstream church in America. Not rational at all. It's important in times of stress and adversity not to panic and throw reason under the bus, which is what many do when they see the problems with Stanton. Rather, our dependency should be on God alone, NOT ON ANY MAN OR ORGANIZATION. This is what my whole experience taught me. I relied far too much on family, friends, the church, and leadership figures, instead of understanding that God alone will be my refuge in times of trouble.
'Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you, not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid'.
Jesus John 14:27
There is no church or organization on this earth that will ever bring any of us the peace we can alone get when our conscience is in harmony with God's will for us. There are hundreds of millions of people going to churches who aren't anywhere remotely close to being on the path to heaven.
Montesquieu
I greatly agree with you about the teaching of the church, but that is not today's problems. It is in how they are using that teaching and their actions towards their own brethren. Even GP used this phrase in a talk, "Only Christians shoot their wounded", and they do.
The last part of this verse is how I see how to many preachers and teachers are handling their positions.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, "who hold the truth in unrighteousness";
There is a great lack of mercy and a lot of indifference that has influenced a lot of members to act the same.
I am 52 and have been in some kind of Church of Christ since I was around 9. I have learned a lot of what other religions have as doctrine and agree that the CoC is the closest to the truth, but it is hard to learn and keep the joy of Christianity when those who are supposed to help us oppress us instead.
Very true, Lynn. 'Who hold the truth in unrighteousness'. Stanton insists on draconian (Mr. Carr used that in a meeting lesson, and I thought a riot was going to break out on a trip in one of the Southern California congregations) measures, that negate the law.
But, isn't faith the hallmark of salvation? 'In your patience, ye possess your souls', said Christ in Luke. Also, Paul in Hebrews said, 'But without faith, it is impossible to please God, for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him'.
That said, Stanton has a lot of wonderful people, and teachings, but ' a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump', and 'For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.', and 'That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven'. It's really sad, Stanton does so much right, but the little they miss is so monumental, it negates all their good.
Unforgiveness was the big sin the Pharisees stumbled on, and it's the big sin Stanton stumbles on. As in Matthew 18, where the servant was forgiven of his debt, and turned around and wouldn't forgive his fellow servant, so it is with Stanton. Forgiven of their sins, they prance around and flaunt this to the world, saying they are the best, and deny the world the very salvation that they say they received from God. You can imagine how God feels about that. Stanton ignores this blog, because as GP said, we aren't worth Stanton's time. They are too good for us. We are beneath them. As in India, with the untouchables, they had castes. If you were an untouchable, you were beneath everyone else. This is how Stanton treats those who they deem 'unworthy'. 'Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.'
God says he can't stand the holier than thou, yet Stanton thinks they will be blessed for this attitude. I wouldn't want to be their leaders when the day of reckoning comes. No mystery how that will turn out, hopefully they repent first.
The job of leaders is to comfort the disturbed and to disturb the comfortable. Stanton does the latter quite well, the former, not so much.
We had an excellent sermon yesterday on false teaching at a church we are visiting while on vacation. After reading the blog tonight I would say that things are closing in on the cult and especially MM. Thanks to the Internet and blog.
No church is perfect and Merie’s cult is far from it. Funny story about the only preacher in Portland MM. This follows along with the unqualified preachers that are rampant in the SCOC. I always noticed at meetings how MM would hide behind someone or get up and walk out of the room when prayer requests would be made knowing that a man would be called on to pray. MM didn’t want to be it. I mentioned it to him at times. Lol. It was the May meeting 2014 in Mobile when MM while hiding behind someone was called to close the meeting prayer. This so called preacher being in for 25 years or so struggled so mightily during that prayer that it was obvious to I’d think everyone. Lol. I’ve never heard men struggle to say a prayer like these men in the SCOC. When Portland would have visitors I’d be embarrassed with the poor quality of the prayers. Really. And they claim to have the Holy Spirit?
Hi Craig yes I agree that prayers are an issue. One thing I noticed after attending a healthy church is how different each man's prayer is where I go. Some are nice, but I have been really touched by some very humble prayers. In Merie's church, they pray pretty much the same. It felt like a lack of real meaning in the prayers. Most, not all, but I can say in general that was the case. Since they are aiming to be "united" and all "the same" that is what they want, so I guess that's the result.
One thing I was thinking a while back was why on rare occasions the members as a congregation would get on their knees? Does that mean that the prayers not on knees aren't as heartfelt? Any opinions on this out there? Did anyone feel like even this was used as preferring for praying for some?
M Long, I saw some of this too. A lot of prayers felt like they weren't really directed at God, but just made to sound spiritual. There would be lot's of showy and unnecessarily long prayers even for simple things like praying for the food. So much so, on some occasions after the prayer people would point out they had to redo it because they prayed for everything EXCEPT the food.
Also I didn't understand how a man had to be "spiritual enough" first to even lead a prayer. Or if there wasn't a "spiritual enough" man at a fellowship to lead a prayer one of the women would say it. Or if a man had a sin he didn't "take care of" first he couldn't lead a prayer and would decline if asked since they teach God doesn't hear your prayer if you're in sin(???). Always thought that was strange too. Just let people pray to God.
I didn't mind getting on knees personally, since there were times I would do that in private when I prayed. But I can see how that does seem a bit showy too when the whole congregation does it. I'm not sure about preferring though. Your experience may be different but we would usually only get on knees when it was some kind of emergency and someone was in the hospital or something during a class and someone wanted to pray for them.
AFP, I was raised in a religion where we prayed on knees often, so it was odd to me that it was done only on special occasions. My husband actually had to redo his first fellowship prayer because he didn't "bless the food". I was sooo mad that a young Christian lady stopped him right after in front of everyone in our own home, to redo the prayer. To me, it was a woman usurping a man, felt like being too picky also, and my intuition was just that the whole thing was off. I later talked to my husband about it, but we kept that, among other things, to ourselves. As for the young lady, I liked her and felt she was just mimicking others' examples. Pharisees.
I agree about praying and sin, confessions before all that, and even being served by someone who hasn't made a confession. These are all rules created by Merie Weiss manipulating scripture.
Montesquieu 6:01 you nailed it with that comment. Btw not our church. Not mine thank goodness. I agree with much of what you said with your prior comment as well. Especially no church or organization on this earth will bring us the peace we can alone get when our conscience is in harmony with God’s will. Lynn MM backs up your point with his comment. All the good that they do is null and void with their wrongs. Love and mercy being two biggie’s.
For those who may not be convinced that this "church" was started by Merie Weiss, or even that she was withdrawn from when she started her church, here she is in her own words:
“I know what he means because I have been cast out of the church. You don’t go around crying about it, you just go and start a church. And save people, teach them and baptize them and we have a church. And a lot of them now. In the next six months we should have four more states."
From a July 1, 1979 Merie Weiss teaching on tape
Ever the cult leader. But hey, it's Christ's church, and the only one at that. Right.
M Long, great share. Very much the cult founder and leader. She could not endure her SCRIPTUAL withdrawal. So she starts her cult. Funny how you here those that teach their nonmember classes bring that exact point up conceding other religions. If only the members of the cult knew the truth. Her ideas of how her cult would grow has fallen far short of her predictions.
M Long, I wonder if it’s possible to get that audio of Merie and the comment she made on this blog.
Craig I pulled it off DCs old blog which is still up. Haha. I don't know her or where she is now but wow she totally worshipped Merie. I'm sure a lot of people felt that way about Merie, that things were revealed to her, that she basically knew things like her church was the only one going to Heaven.
I'm really trying to learn to not beome them and say 'So and so is not going to heaven' because God tells us He decides all that. But it's sad that a place that teaches they hold truth could not possibly debate how they are the only ones that God will accept, that their prayers are the only ones heard, that their worship is the only one God accepts etc., and has followed a person who essentially made herself the same level as God to tell people that no one else is accepted of Him. She has already judged and condemned the entire world, and its current leaders do the same.
We do happen to have quite a few old tapes but they sound awful. You can hear Merie's very shrill voice, though. Her tone alone was very much like a tent preacher, yelling, etc. Not at all how the Bible says women should be. And while I'm no quiet mouse, at least I'm not trying to preach in front of people and convince them to follow me. And yes, she certainly was PREACHING in those tapes.