It’s hard to avoid talking in circles when discussing doctrines with
members of the church, simply because words don’t mean what we would
expect them to mean. Thus, the conversation goes in circles, because the
meaning of words keeps shifting.
A case in point
was a recent conversation about rules. It was denied emphatically that
the church had extra-Biblical rules. I asked if church members were
allowed to have Facebook accounts. There was a long pause. “There is no
rule against it, but it’s taught against.”
So how exactly
does that work? Does the word “rule” mean something different to them
than to me? If I, as a person of authority in my household, instruct my
kids not to have a Facebook account, that’s a rule for all intents and
purposes. Even if I give my kids a pretense of choice about having a
Facebook account, but rebuke them at the dinner table if they choose to
have one, it is still obviously a rule of the house, whether I call it
that or not.
The subject turned to movie theaters. I
got the same answer: “We don’t have a rule you can’t go into a movie
theater, but we do teach against it.” I got even more of a pause when I
asked if this person would be rebuked if they entered a movie theater
and a teacher found out about it. “I don’t know because I wouldn’t do
it” was the only answer I could get. I think we all know the real
That is the textbook definition of “teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” Teachings of men are routinely called out when
it’s the Catholics, Baptists, or Mormons. When Ellen G. White came up
with her dietary rules for Seventh Day Adventists, do you think Merie
gave her a pass because her rules weren’t really rules or doctrines, they were just “judgments?’ Of course not. And rightly so.
I have to assume the church is well-meaning by its many extra-Biblical teachings. No doubt, they are only intended to help and guide. But for the sake
of an honest conversation, let’s simply agree to call them what they
are. They are rules, or teachings that go beyond what inspired Scripture actually
says. Here’s my judgment: It’s far better to remain silent where the Bible is silent than to speak where God didn’t choose to speak.
Kevin, I do agree with you on this subject. I believe Merie's success in teaching and converting the lost was commendable, but over the top in the rules department. Even if this was for the sake of saving souls. The scriptures tell us to "work out our own salvation in fear and trembling",not have the church work it out. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Hi Anonymous poster, I could agree with your statement "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater", assuming you mean Merie did some good IF her teachings were sound. Unfortunately, they are not. In what way was her "success" commendable? If success means gaining a following, Madonna shares in her "success", wouldn't you agree? Or Elmo or the President or Hitler. The point here is how do you describe commendable success in relationship to Merie? What is your reasoning? Do you think that Merie had a few too many rules but the rest is A OK? If that is what… Read more »
To Anonymous #1: Why would one throw out the bathwater and KEEP the baby in this instance? The bathwater is in the condition it is in BECAUSE of the baby. I think a better idea would be to stop grasping the BABY while swirling in the cesspool of the bathwater and grasp instead the simple truth of the Gospel of JESUS; not the gospel of any other man or woman.
Having lived through the 1974 to 1975 years as a member at Spring Valley then starting a congregation in Corpus Christi Texas, I found that the pattern of church "leaders" was to shun the world, so yes "We teach against it" really meant, "don't do it", it's the rule. Your life was completely controlled by those "in charge" I helped start Corpus Christi, but I was not in charge. An authoritarian person was on charge. I lived in fear.
So sad! I cannot believe going to church made you live in fear. What a shame! I am thinking you are an adult so if you lived in fear think about the children. The poor children and now many are young adults. I pray none of them marry within the church but find their way in a healthy spirit filled church that has love and joy so they do not have children they raise in the church and the cycle continues. God Bless You!
IN fear of What Mr. Anonymous at 6:36 am? Matthew 10:28, I believe, should help you resolve that part of your past. LOL.
@Concerned, this is just more "blame the victim" thinking. It is unbelievably tone deaf to the struggles of the victims of Stanton's campaigns of fear and intimidation against those who come to disagree with them.
From a 30,000 foot view, no, we should not ever fear mere mortals. However, a child being abused by an authority figure will hopefully fear that person's abuse enough to seek shelter from it and alert others to the danger. If she does not, it's not her fault…it's the petpretator's fault. Period.
We all have fears, Concerned. We all have doubts too. What we are all doing-or should be attempting-is to get past those fears and doubts. That's what we have God and the Holy Spirit for, as well as each other.But what we do not need is ones taunting us about those fears doubts, and making light of them. We do not need ones passing judgment on us for the things we are still working on, after all if any of us are perfect then why are we still here?As for you, what are you afraid of that you don't want… Read more »
Concerned: I am so glad you're on here even if just to mock us. I bet several of us, in our own way, were just like you, and looked down on others who didn't go along with Merie's church. It's OK. You're on here because you too have doubts and are curious. And you think by fighting us you are proving yourself. But you're not. One sometimes fights the hardest right at the end. We'll be here for support when the people you believe love you suddenly turn their backs on you. And we truly will forgive the fact that… Read more »
Anon 6:36 I wonder who you are…I heard stories about Corpus and none of them good. I know the people who left from there to SA too. I also wonder how, after 40 years, you still found this site. The sect definitely leaves people damaged.
Anon 6:36 I, too, wondered if I know you. Were you in Tacoma before Corpus? Anyway, you are very welcome here! So glad you found this site, I am thankful to Kevin, and God, that Kevin started it. It's been a blessing to many!
Seeking @ July 8,2017 at 3:35 concerned is Paula Preman.
Anon 4:32 you have GOT to be kidding. My goodness, either way I laughed hard. Paula using "LOL" as a response. I'm sure she wouldn't even be on here. I mean, surely all her focus is getting her own kids and grands in her husband's church?
Don't know for sure but the mannerisms are the same. A narcissist would want to know everything said about them, true or not; and I know many leaders in the SCOC are narcissistic. This blog also provides fodder for their critical lessons instead of the scriptures. The book of Matthew is rich in edification, I always wondered why in some places Christ would reference a specific prophet like Isaiah or Ezekiel and in other places he would say "it is written" and I found when Christ says it is written he is referring many times to what is written in… Read more »
Looks like you've been OUTED Paula UH OH
Well in a Way
How counsel would work at least the last year or so that I attended you ask a question such about curfew for your child. Answer/opinion/rule/doctrine would be given and you may get but I'm not telling you what to do. Ha right do what you want but if it's against counsel or the rule for the situation wait and see what happens.
They even gave you a curfew time..wow… They have no business parenting.. Sad thing is they think the do.. Ugh..
So what happened?
What happens when you go against counsel is you'll be reproved privately or publicly. You may be rebuked publicly. If you have responsibilities they may be removed. Case by case. I was not one that went against counsel other than questioning it the past 4 years or so. I could see the relationship I had with the preacher going bad. All I was doing was having a concern for the Portland congregation and it's lack of growth. I communicated this with other preachers, teachers, counselors and an evangelist. No hrlp ever came except from one couple that had a care… Read more »
Craig, your story is scattered all over the comments but difficult to get the whole story with all of its details. Could you please write out your story and send it to Kevin so you can have it posted as a separate blog entry? It would be much appreciated.
I may do that at some point. One step at a time.
They are specialist in rule making. Straying outside of biblical doctrine and making there own. Earmark of a cult/false religion/false teachers which had been mentioned in other articles oppression where God gives you liberty this cult takes it away. Adding to Gods word condemns them they are just to blind to identify themselves as a counterfeit religion as they call all others.
This is why the truth (The Bible) sets you free.
Exactly Lynn the truth (The Bible) which deducts Merie's cult who believe they have it and most are sincere about it. Yet they are sincerely wrong. The leaders of the cult are not sincere. Maybe some preacher and teachers as well. Otherwise they would use only the Bible which they claim. A big fat lie that is.
As they often teach at their nonmember classes. Withen the Bible scripture has all things that pertain to life and godliness. It's the perfect law of liberty, It's perfect to convert the soul. All true. Yet that is not what is practiced by Merie's followers. Example 1 public confessions. How about no elders. Just for starters, they add and diminish from Gods word. Rules and more rules. Quit feeding the public and your blind followers with lies GP, TC and KS. You do not only use the Bible.
Well Craig consider that religions are made up of men, and all men lie; therefore every religion lies to its members in some way or at different times. The Catholic church tell lies to its members, the Mormon church tells lies to its members, so the SCOC lies to its members is no great surprise. The lies that do the most harm need to be uncovered and challenged. Lies such as "all children that die outside the Church of Christ go to hell" is one that I challenged and the woman who taught it was withdrawn from and the heresy… Read more »
Yes lies have been told concerning myself by teaching members in Portland. As I'm going to work on not being bitter towards certain individuals I'll refrain from getting into specifics at this time. The cult clearly is teaching lies if you simply read throughout the blog you'll understand. The one true church? Please.
One of the great ways to overcome trauma is to write it out. Writing out your experiences allows the mind to let it go, holding in it or suffering in silence causes the problem to get worse, so please keep writing (and you are allowed to make mistakes) that is part of the healing process. Soldiers suffering from PTSD are encouraged to write the experiences out in story form and it helps them to heal, the trauma is no longer the most important event in their life once it has been put down on paper and shared with others. When… Read more »
I noticed that the preacher's wife can have a Facebook and be posting silly stuff to it. It's amazing the Privileges they can have and it's okay if they do it. Even some family shots (or friends) of some boobs. I took a few screenshots
Excuse me, I mean cleavage LOL
When you walk after a lust of the flesh you develop an inferiority complex and become what is called a "doormat"; you will treat others well but you will treat yourself poorly. The alcoholic who will give you his last dollar while he himself is hungry is an example, a meth addict who will help you clean while she is dirty herself is an example, a pervert who wants to post on a church blog to somehow help others is your example. When you give in to one area of lust you will give into other area's as well, giving… Read more »
Humble servant, your comments at 1:15 are great, but your comments at 6:18 are not the tone I'd like to maintain here. I believe we share the same goal of trying to help those who have lived for years in an oppressive environment. I don't believe we accomplish that when we call out unvelievers as "infidels" as the Islamists do, or someone who uses the word "boob" as a pervert, or castigating the former preacher you speak of so strongly. Anyone in any level of power within Stanton, can change their life and turn the rest of it over to… Read more »
Humble Servant I'm not a pervert. I'm a woman with 'boobs' and children. The reason I said I took a screen shot is because a friend of mine that is still in the church was told by a teacher what not to post on facebook if they chose to have one but yet the evangelist's wife can do all that. You are like the church, always saying and assuming things that are not true.
Thank you Anon 12:24. I laughed because I'm a father of four, going on five daughters, plus lots of foster daughters over the years. I got over my prudishness over that word years ago. This again goes back to Merie's hypersexualizing everything and policing words to measure spirituality. It's just more Pharisaism IMO. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for clean and unoffensive language. Just not making arbitrary rules and judging people by them.
Kevin, so correct on that. Their crazy rule book of words not used is kind of funny on some of it. I can't yet figure out what kind of mind form makes up this stuff!
Just in case anyone needs a refresher course on proper words.
Accepted words: bottom, hiney, bum, privates, potty, urinate, bm, stinky, with child, expecting, breasts, cleavage, chest area. Oh my word, oh my.
I laughed out loud at that, Anon 7:32. So right. 🙂
Oh Humble head-ache who feels she knows me so well as to spell out the course of my marriage, it is in your own words that you prove my point..You and your Lascivious Master evangelina, whom which you are servant to, passed judgement upon me as One of the "Truly Wicked" Did you and your sexual partner determine this from the Lurid Investigations into our marriage bed 30 years ago.Then you taught her to be "Hard as Nails" against me. And she was. But never had answers to my questions of WHY? Sound Familiar to anyone? So who was it… Read more »
Just giving thought to how many different occupations Merie's cult would say that's a no no. You could not make it to heaven working that type of job?
Craig.. But they will go to the WORDLY Doctors (and then make fun of them in a sermon.. Sick!) because it benefits them..that would be frowned upon though on that career.. I know massage therapist is probably out of the question job wise.. And their saying on how you will understand when you become more spiritual.. Always loved that one.. I used to think you mean when you have control over them with your crazy ways of thinking.. Ha
Please don't tell me they tell you what occupation you can have? It is bad enough they want nearly every day of your life! No wonder most cannot think for themselves are not involved in school events and miss so much with their families outside of the group or are they allowed to see their families?
Yes,they do control your occupation.. as for family you can visit them as long as you are not breaking their travel rules or any missed days of the church's doings.. As for school events, They don't let them do that in most situations.. They don't want you to be friends with the worldly people
Also, I did have a member of the church, while they were in the church (and still are) tell me after I first went into the church and was baptized to never start going to extra classes or anything because then it would be expected of me.. So I made sure I stayed away from all of that..
Anon at 6:24 you are correct! They use the scripture that talks about putting your hand to the plow and looking back-that once you add on classes, personal work, etc. you MUST continue with them or you are "looking back" which means you are sinning. They consider it sin to miss classes and work that you have added on-although they had to admit (when I was in and asked about it) that there are no scriptures to support classes and "personal work'. I went back at that point, and looked even for a "necessary inference" or an " approved example"… Read more »
It sounds as if these so called leaders,teachers and preachers think they are God! God would never ask this of His people. How sick!
Craig, one occupation a "Christian" can't do is a police officer. My husband gave up his dream career 38 years ago because 'the church said', and them using "Put up thy sword"". He hasn't lived his own life since. I'm understanding more and more that this cult breeds co-dependants. As long as you base your self-worth on what you think the teachers think about you, you are co-dependent. I lived that life for too many decades, but I'm grateful for my true freedom in Christ because of that bondage. People- defrost your feelings and listen to your own heart and… Read more »
Donna, how sacrilegious! For you to tell others to listen to their hearts, feelings, gut, intuition! But "the heart deceiveth above all else"! Don't depend on your heart/mind/gut! Depend on your preacher or counsel instead! If God wanted you to depend on your heart/mind/intuition, He would have given you that! (Wait a minute…)
@Seeking, It's funny, I was thinking about that same verse when I read Donna's comment, we've all been trained very well. But there is obviously a balance. We've been given a brain to think with for a reason. We're to use it to keep us from becoming deceived by teachers/preachers/sects/cults/denominations trying to persuade us of unbiblical things. "Prove all things" means to "test all things" against the scriptures. That's the key.
On being deceived it is done with scripture out of context. Take "Christ came to break up families" for example, in context he was speaking to the Jews; some of whom would hold to the old law (carnal law) and some who would accept the new law (spiritual law) and this would cause divisions within every Jewish family. If Christ came to break up every family then there could be no bishops/elders because a bishop/elder is required to have faithful children (Titus 1:6). If the whole family is raised under the spiritual law then no division would occur. By presenting… Read more »
This is another topic I'd love to see a specific post on. I know several posts and comments have mentioned the emasculation of men here, but I'd love to see it all in one post. Jobs is a big one. There are men who come in with specific skills or jobs who are taught to put it aside and they should not miss ANY of classes, etc. This has quite a domino effect, starting with the leader of the family making his own decisions without pressure, and then it affecting his confidence and ability to provide for his family. I… Read more »
25 hours a week and welfare benefits is the example that is set and followed, not a 40 hour work week. If a man works 40 hours a week he is deemed a "workaholic". How do men provide for their families on 25 hours a week? They don't and they can't. The example is set by the self employed/tow truck/real estate preacher who boasted of only having to work 25 hours a week, making thousands of dollars, and in the state of California if you worked 25 hours or less you get full welfare benefits, irregardless of income. This is… Read more »
Is this still going on with this tow truck man doing this or did they say put a stop to it? .. now I see why my ex-husband was always so lazy and took all he could from people and was so against giving any company his work time so they could profit
Praise God my son and grandson both have a good work ethic passed down from hard working grandparents.
Jo, Yes! Be proud of that because it does not come from the church! A preacher's Son fired one of the Christians lol
Men are commanded to be the providers and women the keepers of the home, and both are of equal importance. When the men are discouraged from working, women and children go without, or the women leave the home and go to work. When women go to work outside the home they are often exposed to other men and adulteries happen. The way in which God set things up in true and right: men are to be providers for their women and children. When men are encouraged to be lazy thorns and thistle creep in as stated in Proverbs 24:30-34 and… Read more »
I worked outside the home for many years and never committed adultery. That's a silly thing to say about women. The same could be said of men. As a matter of fact, my ex who was a SCOC Christian did commit adultery on me, so please don't generalize women like that.
Anon 5:21 yep that's funny. The preacher in Portland owns a business and employs members of the cult. How many times do you think I heard complaints about them? Multiple times. If I would've only shared with these ones and asked is this really true what the preacher said about you at work. Yes this preacher is the king murmurer. I guess you get a pass when you're the main "somehow" preacher. Hypocrite, liar, murmurer, gossiper and one who sowed seeds of discord especially about the teacher in Tacoma. All truth all facts from me. I'd love to get the… Read more »
This is what the root of bitterness sounds like.Even if this is all true, God's instructions to us is in Hebrews 12:15. And yes you can live peaceably with any man or God wouldn't have said this.
Yes I do have some bitterness. Which I'll have to get past. And yes everything I've commented on has been fact and truth. Being a nonmember doesn't make it right, however, I do not owe this cult anything. Though by their rules and teachings they do owe me confessions. Especially the hypocrite preacher from Portland. Anon 5:48. The cult is the root which has caused any bitterness. Without their unrighteously saying I'm a member and withdrawing from me I'd never of began calling out those who've made these decisions. Are you a member? Do you believe Merie's cult is the… Read more »
I agree with Craig that it is the cult's tactics that lead to bitterness. How would you feel if most people you love turned their backs on you? Happy?
It is, however, part of the process, much like death and divorce have their processes. It will all pass in time.
I can see that others here have gone beyond these initial stages and are much happier. I'm looking forward to that. It will happen.
@Seeking, it's not that I disagree that the cult's tactics lead to bitterness. I'm just saying that understanding what Jesus did for us, and that he has far more right to be bitter than we do, leaves us with no excuse for being bitter. My dad's life was "ruined" by this cult—the wife of his youth turned against him by the leaders, his own daughter persuaded and turned against him by the false teachings and false teachers. But from a redemptive point of view, his life really was "ruined" because he *let* the root of bitterness become implanted in his… Read more »
Anon 5:48, Romans 12:18 says "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." This implies that there are limits to how much an individual is ableto live in peace with someone. Not every person can beva "best friend." But I do believe that if we have Jesus's spirit living inside us, we can live peaceably with just about anyone.
Anon 5:48 what is your understanding of Hebrews 12:15 and the root of bitterness?
I was going to ask that question and say the same things as Craig. There is nothing false to any of this. It is all truth. I'm from the Portland Congregation also (no longer a member) I have also been to the AZ congregation. I see nothing in this blog so far that is not truth and I've been reading it for a loonngg time.. I've read everything 2 or 3 times. I've just recently started posting in the past few months
The root of bitterness is just the beginning of the bitterness itself becoming implanted and taking root in our hearts. We can't give place to it. It is not something external, like an event, or the way someone treats us. If that were the case, Jesus would have had a "root of bitterness" when he, as God in the flesh, was crucified by his own creation.
Portland taught the root of bitterness means or equivalent to the root of opposition. Not exactly sure but that's what I noted in my bible full of notes. Bitterness is ugly as there will be grudges, anger, hatred and so on. Yes the root will be plucked out so it will not grow and spread.
I have read Christian books on bitterness (yes I read Christian books and not just the Bible and listen to Christian music ) and people may want to check some out of the library or buy online. It took me a while as the first step to grieving such as loss of friends and sometimes family due to the cult is anger. All the steps must be worked through before there is peace just like a death.
Anon 8:33 good input. Thank you also to you Kevin.
This was a good thread on bitterness. I just finished writing a post dedicated to the subject, let me know your thoughts:
The poison pill of bitterness
It is hard not to be bitter. I was raised in what was called the 'off church' since I was just before 10 years old. I am now 51. I found the Tacoma congregation when I was 17 and was baptized. Almost all of our teachers and preachers were withdrawn from. The meeting of Eugene, Portland, and Tacoma first Friday classes were started. We got new preachers and teachers and things were not better. There was such a lack of love. It was more about finding sin in people than establishing relationships with the people of God. I left after… Read more »
Very insightful, Lynn. I see a lot of your description in my life and in others here.
How long have you and your family been out of there? Please don't go back. There are so many healthy churches and loving church families. Listen to positive sermons online for a while if you are not in church now. I will have to re read your story. We find listening to Charles Stanley is very encouraging and he is preaching from the Bible. God Bless! Keep getting the word out.
I agree with Anon 2:36 concerning listening to sermons online or on the radio. There are also some very good Christian authors. Lynn it sounds like you have listened and relistened to an abundance of scoc recordings. I would encourage you to branch out and listen to the recordings and writings of non-scoc people. They can be very encouraging and uplifting and also reproving. Give them a try; I believe you might be pleasantly surprised.
I miswrote, above, of how long I was in the second time. I came back in 1999 and left around 2012.
Just a second Kevin Now you the crossed line "Prove all things" means to "test all things" against the scriptures. That's the key. Those are words of Science not Religion.Prove , Test Sounds like Science to me. Faith, Belief in the Un-proven or Un-Tested thats sounds like Religion. Believe as you wish, I'll go with Science and proven History The SCOC teaches against "Worldly" science so they do no proving of their doctrine. The rules and preaching are merely their uneducated minds wandering through the Bible to select verses they can twist into their perverted scheme to control the members.… Read more »
KF, "prove" is the King James word for "test." Someone would prove a horse or donkey before buying it (i.e., they would test it out) to make sure it's a capable of doing what they need it to do. The scriptures tells us to "prove all things." They also praise the Bereans for checking what Paul taught against the scriptures before accepting it. Science (a rational, observable system of discovering facts about the natural world we live in) is not evil, nor is it contradictory to faith. Most of the world's greatest scientific breakthroughs were done by Bible-believing Christians. Did… Read more »
Well Kevin I've always been skeptical of Christianity sinec growing up Catholic. My skepticism led me to allow acceptance of the SCOC into my family via my wife. I thought they were providing my children better morals than what has developed throughout my generation.Nowadays I lean toward Ancient History through the scientific explorations of ancient places of worship and astronomical significance. There appears to be overwhelming evidence of other life forms and previous versions of how the universe and mankind were created Yes I'm an believer in Aliens. I see more proving and testing in these explorations, than there are… Read more »
KF, (1) I understand your skepticism of the authority of the Catholic church. Agreed, and I can see why you allowed an alternative into your family. Unfortunately, it was the Stanton sect, not mainstream Christianity. 2) You keep making the mistake of equating the Stanton sect with Christianity in general. That's not a fair assumption, as I think you'll admit. You can't judge Christianity by the bad experiences you've had with this sect. In 2000 years of Christianity, Stanton's been around for 50. (3) Yes, Jesus was a good, moral person, and so he taught. But he also claimed to… Read more »
KF, I think the instinct you had to allow God into your family for the purpose of teaching morality to your kids is evidence of the truth in the cliché that there is a "God-shaped hole" inside all of us. We were created in the image of the Divine, and just like an adopted child always craves to know more about his or her biological roots, I believe we are all born with an intense curiosity to know our spiritual roots, i.e. our Creator. I guess I'm saying that if you leave any opening for the possibility that a creator… Read more »
KF- please view this video by Gerald Schroeder. He is a physicist. It details proof of God based on science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQVm8RokoBA I am a believer in Jesus and the bible as divine message to the world and that it does contain scientific information as well. Over time I have learned of scientific predictions on how the extinction of animals is occurring which lines up with the book of Revelations and moreover, how scientist believe the world will collapse into itself. Please see these links by Phys org and here's a link to Revelations description of the universe "..rolled together like… Read more »
Can u clear something up for me. Is Ken presently and at this moment on his way to hell. And if he died right this minute, he would go to hell.
Ken? I know some members who are named Ken. I'll have to ask them that question. Curious to hear the answer. Which was my point in bringing it up. Not for me to judge if they are or not. Yourself anon 2;12 if you are a member of Merie's cult I ask you if you died tonight would you make it to heaven. Oh yeah first paradise. Than when Christ returns make it to heaven. If you are not a member never mine.
Anon 2:12, can you clarify who is Ken, and why do you ask? Judging someone's soul is way above our pay grade as mere mortals. 🙂
not a mem, just an observer. but i thought you guys belived that you have to be baptized for forgivenss of sins and it doesn't sound like KF (sorry, Ken) is in that thinking. Or are you like accept Jesus. Why is that above your pay grade… Bible states what sends a man to hell and how he is forgivn. Right?
Anon 3:44, so you're defending the church's doctrines, yet not a member. I did that in my younger life, until I actually studied the scriptures for myself. So can I safely assume you're a child of a member…perhaps one of KF's daughters? Either way, please at least read a few of the articles and comments here before jumping in to comment yourself. That's just good online etiquette. And while the Bible describes mankind's responsibilities to God and our fellow man, it doesn't give us the infinite wisdom of God to know the hearts of men and pass final judgment. Only… Read more »
Oh Common Now! This just got Facebook Silly. Let's get this part right. My only daughter has never been on this site. By her own free will, Astonishingly she totally rejects the SCOC and it's members and is free of their mental abusive ways. But she still has to deal with one of the "Pillars of the SCOC" her mother Cynthia. So trying to normalize her life between a father whose "Going to Hell" and a mother who is already a Saint ("Pillar" GP's words) in the eyes of the Tiny White Evangelist Preacher, is very disorienting. She does not… Read more »
KF, I'm confused. Call or email me.
Anon@8:10First Video Universe expanded in All directions not a bell-shape. Something from Nothing? He didn't convince meSecond video Yes Universe will stop expanding and begin collapsing, But Earth and other planets will suffer devastation from planetary and cosmic collisions before the collapse happens. Yeah that comes from Science and the Bible. And a few other Ancient civilization stories that do not include Jesus. There's more danger here on Earth related to science than to religion. Excepting these Extremist Cults'.Third Link – Description of a previous Nuclear War in the Ancient Past.But these are all off topic anyways.No we can't determine… Read more »
KF@6:39 I wasn't suggesting you were a member or ever was. You've made that quite clear in your other comments. I'm right with you that Merie's cult is untrue. Right with you with the paid preacher in Spring Valley as well. They are damaging my marriage and family not to the extent of yours at least not yet. Baloney never really cared for it. Though I had it quite a bit as a child. Oops hope my mom doesn't read this.
KF, I'm genuinely curious how you process the "something from nothing" dilemma of atheism. Where did matter come from?
To answer your question:
KF- As to the graphic used in the first video that is in a bell shape- I was able to trace it back to NASA. I am sure they have scientifically based technology and data that caused them to use a diagram in a bell shape to expertly show the expansion of the universe. P.S. I am not a member of the cult.
KF – "… determined that the distribution of these fluctuations follows a bell curve with the same properties across the sky, and that there are equal numbers of hot and cold spots in the map. The simplest version of the inflation idea predicted these properties and remarkably, WMAP’s precision measurement of the properties of the fluctuations has confirmed these predictions, in detail."
"Tiny white evangelist preacher"(I'm sorry but that made me giggle) I won't say what I thought after my first 10 minutes of seeing him and listening to him. I was withdrawn from, sitting in the back trying to keep from smiling and giggling (it took alot of self control) LOL
Craig, I can guarantee you they will be going at your wife the best they can to make things get worse for the two of you. I hope things don't get out of hand for you because of them. They tried really hard with me to make it seem that my other half was not a good person and my other half was in the church too. Back stabbing gossipy. Busy bodies
Anon 10:11 I sure hope they did not succeed. I don't see why they want to break up families but imagine it is all about control. What about marriage vows and love? It is all just plain crazy. I never dreamed in 100 years we would have this as a problem in our family. God knows all about it and I pray He will work a miracle and she will see the light.
Anon 10:11 should I dare GP to bring it on? No I won't stoop to the lows of Merie's cult and GP's dares. Do they get joy out of ruining famalies. They will be held accountable that is a guarantee. They owe me confessions for their lies saying I'm a member when I'm 100% chrystal clear that I am not. A fictitious withdrawal. Come on cult leaders. You are getting more and more evil. You cannot escape your ugly 50 year history. I'm working on bitterness so I'll be nice here. GP the family wrecker. Repent GP. Does he care… Read more »
Though I believe God could create something from nothing, it appears God used water to create the earth. 2nd Peter 3:33 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For [a]when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and… Read more »
Jo, Yes they did succeed and I'm sure they are still trying to control the person when it comes to me as they are still a member. I do have outside control over my family which makes me feel good. They are not in the church nor would they go since I have printed out this blog for them. My story is a bit different. I was not in the church for very long. But I knew most everything about the church before I went in. I've listened to Craig on a Sunday before 🙂
Anon 1:31, good info. One of the biggest evidences that the Biblical record is accurate is that geology confirms Noah's flood. My dad was a geologist. When I was a kid, he used to take me to inland job sites, some even in the mountains, and we'd frequently find fossils. The leaves and lizards were cool. But the trilobites, fish, and other marine organisms were puzzling unless there was a catastrophic flood that buried them in the mud in these inland locations. Since then, there have been fossilized marine animals found in just about every part of the world, some… Read more »
Words can be as identifying as fingerprints. Take the word "cubit" for example; it is used to describe the length and width of Noah's ark in Genesis chapter six. The word "cubit however was not in use during Noah's day it was in use in a latter time period; that being ancient Egypt. The person who wrote the book of Genesis did not live during Noah's time but during the time of the Pharaoh's. For a person to use the word "cubit" would also indicate the level of education because a cubit was a length of measurement from the elbow… Read more »
Anon 1:29, agreed. Genesis being transcribed in the language of an Egyptian is exacly what one would expect, since the first five books of the Bible are called the books of Moses. However, there's another interesting aspect to this. There was an ancient Babylonian custom for patriarchs to keep a history of their family, then when they die, their heir would add the words "This was the history of…." I'll write more on this soon. This language appears throughout the book of Genesis, and suggests that it was compiled from actual clay tablets that existed and had been passed down… Read more »
So Kevin is what you are saying is that Moses was worshiping the same god as the Babylonians who wrote of their gods on tablets of clay? Sounds like what I hear from Ancient Astronauts. Could Moses have been influenced by Ancient Aliens? Stories are very similar and as we know History repeats itself. Study history and archaeology to learn what will happen in the future as well as the past.The Infidel suggests the book 'Gods of the New Millennium' for related insights into the presence of man on Earth and the search for the Gods. Words of Genesis indicate… Read more »
KF, I'm not sure where you came up with Moses worshiping the same god as the Babylonians from my comments. Biblical authors most certainly retained the culture they were in as they wrote…my point was that perhaps the Babylonian practice of using colophons (signatures) to signify the end of a person's clay tablet came from God himself with the first clay tablet passed down by Adam, and subsequent ones thereafter. Moses was simply compiling history from actual source documents, exactly as modern historians try to do. As for multiple gods, this is not some big "gotcha" to Christianity. Christian theologians… Read more »
My husband had a hard time understanding the Bible until our friends gave him a Living Bible and he read it from cover to cover twice and used it primarily in church and our bible studies and has some of his favorite scriptures and notes in it. Someday I will pass it on to Craig and now I know he will read it which brings joy to my heart.
Going back to my question what occupation's is taught is a no no. I read doctors and police officers. May of missed some. Portland had a young member who was going to go to school to be a nurse or something similar. I don't know if it was the schooling or nursing or both which they convinced the member not to do. Firemen? Military of any field? Politicians you think? Massage therapist was mentioned. I'm sure there is more. My point SCOC says you cannot go to heaven having these types of employment. Mindset of a cult? Oops of course… Read more »
The question of if you die right now will you make it to heaven is a good question, and will stump most legalistic sects who believe you have to earn your way to heaven. The standard of perfection it takes to "earn" a spot in the presence of God Almighty is so high it is unimaginable to us humans. That's why legalists—those who think we do need to earn our way to heaven—spend their lives uncertain of their ultimate fate. Religion becomes a selfish pursuit, to them, because it takes so much "work" to "earn" heaven that there is no… Read more »
In my opinion if one is not allowed to be a doctor or nurse etc then they should not use the worldly doctors for their benefit. Or police offers if they need one.. I Wonder if they have reasoning for that that if it's not allowed but yet they can gain for their benefit
I was in the Arizona church for a couple weekends and the preacher there was asking everybody if they died right now would they go to heaven.. He certainly bragged how he would
Anon 8:25 – Their reasoning on using the services of doctors, nurses, police officers, and such, comes directly from Merie. She taught that the government and all its benefits—including welfare—were gifts of God specifically for the use of church members. I agree with you—if a man doesn't work, neither should he eat. And if a man believes it's wrong to be a doctor, he shouldn't go to one when he's sick.
Gifts from God (out of the mouth of Merie).. Wow and just simple commen sense says that thinking is nuts! It's easier though to let that one roll with them since they can use the worldly people to benefit them..my x husband did this and still does.. Nothing was ever wrong in his eyes as long as HE benefitted from it.. He learned to use people the best he could.. Now I see he learned all of that from the church. This makes me laugh.. Wow..
Not to change the subject here but one time a member told me the thunder and lightning was happening because he/she was in sin. I told the member that they have predicted a thunder storm coming so if that thunder/lightning was just for her/him then to hurry and ask forgiveness since it was not going to happen until that evening and that the weather man gave him/her a fair warning. The member thought he/she was the ONLY reason it was happening!
A preacher in Boise was a doctor.
Lynn mm.. Before he went into the church though right? Or did he become one after being baptized?
The possibility of a member attending medical school and becoming a doctor while keeping the schedule of the church is nonexistent. To miss even one class or personal work for any reason other than sickness is considered a grevious sin. There is also the possibility an internship or residency would be in a different city or state and moving to another congregation for that reason is against the teaching; which brings me to a different subject: relocation. Relocating because of a job or schooling is completely taboo. Several man-made rules are taught and adhered-to concerning relocation. Very VERY few people… Read more »
Anon 9:37 – Thank you, I think I will clean up this list for an article specifically on Rules for Relocation. If anyone thinks of other rules, or has examples that shed light on their manmade ideology, please post a comment.
And God's going to send you to hell for going to a different location or relocating.. What I don't understand is what kind of mind a member can have in order to let them take control like that.. what keeps them from telling a member all of this ahead of time.. If this is the way it's just supposed to be then why aren't people told all of this stuff beforehand period. What are they scared of.. Of course that they will not become a member.. Work slowly to take the control.. if I would have stayed a member long… Read more »
Don't get me wrong.. I'm not making fun of any of the members.. As I used to be one…
Something so important like not being able to care for your sick relative (even though they have lifted that rule to an extent) is purely wrong.. Obviously they figured out it was wrong but what kind of Minds can even think of this stuff before they finally figure out it's wrong
How much longer before they want you to drink the kool aid? How anyone can follow this sect blows my mind. I have heard of other people that are in cults similar and even the Morgan's and JW for that matter but amazing how they are just enough below the radar that they give off the impression they are legalist but until we were referred to this blog had no idea how far off they are…..we have heavy prayers going out for our loved ones and all the members of this damaging sect. Daily prayers.
The scripture they used to justify their rule of not visiting or taking care of a sick relative in another location (even a location with a congregation) was the completely twisted use of Mark 7:11-12 " But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;" When a member is confronted with this blatant error of the past they brush it… Read more »
In my mind set the makers of those rules have no idea what real love is. They they have their own twisted understanding of real love. I could never have enough fear to disown my family or children. Nothing could make me do that even if I knew I was not going to heaven.. Their type of love is twisted
Anon 7:20 AM
I don't know.
What used to be taught was that each member was a specific part of the body, like the scriptures says, and that if one part leaves then the congregation will be missing that part. It was said that we were put into the congregation we were baptized in for a reason.
'Mark 7:11-12 " But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free' I can't believe what this scripture was being twisted into. Corban was how things were dedicated to the temple, like property. What the Pharisees were doing was teaching the Jews how to get out of helping their parents, in their old age, by dedicating their property to the temple, to keep it to themselves, and getting it back before the year of Jubilee.… Read more »
Kevin, I am anxious for your post on the relocation rules. Lynn, I am not sure if you agree with what the church teaches on relocation and members being put into the congregation they were baptized in for a reason. If that is the case nobody could ever leave their original congregation for ANY reason, not even a 'church-approved' reason and if they happened to be baptized in a city where they were just visiting they would have to move to that congregation. I wonder what congregation the Ethiopian Eunuch was added to when he was baptized? I don't believe… Read more »
One of the go-to arguments the church often uses is…"what if"… What if everyone just up and moved to another congregation for any old reason? They use extreme examples to justify their man-made rules. Another common argument is, "We err on the side of caution". Notice the word ERR; it means ERROR. Is it okay to be wrong as long as the motive is caution? Hmmm…A decision is made based on caution rather than scripture and everyone is expected to comply for the sake of unity. Then the teachers and preachers say, "The church decided this, the church decided that".… Read more »
I agree, anon. Even people who have to be away from a congregation can be a part of Christ's church ( as in those married to a nonmember). But people there can't help themselves with the rule-making. They really can't.
Amen to that, Anon 2:08!
So far E=mc2 has held up to the test.Gotta have something to get something else.My best guess is that God fits in somewhere in the E part of the equationNow maybe there are Bible verses that allude to what God may be . But by now someone would have found that. So yes the educated man tried to pass on stories he had heard of the creation of the world. The bible simplifies the creation of the universe to an unproven notion that a being called God as the sole entity at the time the Earth was formed. Not in… Read more »
But again, you're conflating Christianity with SCOC teaching. Those are entirely different things. There is a lot of room among Christians for different understandings about origins.
As far as E=mc2, you're right on—that has stood the test of time. So some all powerful creative being had to have created something from nothing at some point. Whatever you call him or her or it. Can we at least agree on that?
There is an old saying "some people are so focused on being heaven bound they are no earthly good". I still have not decided what the point of this sect is if a member is in trouble every week? Put down? Making them feel g uilty? Remember we should not feel guilty if we have done nothing wrong. No wonder so many have such low opinions of themselves because they are
not shown love and joy! And how to love one another. Instead they become co dependent in a sick cult. So sad…Expose…
Anon 1:11 – Yes, the SCOC confuses the local church with the universal body of Christ frequently. The Ethiopian Eunuch is a great illustration of Stanton's problem understanding this concept. They don't get the fact that he was a Christian upon baptism, long prior to him going back to Ethiopia and presumably sharing his faith with his friends, family, and employers.
I was baptized in a church while just visiting. Biggest mistake of my entire life too. GP has no real knowledge of anything out there in the world. He may think he does but these people really don't. All he has to go on is scriptures that his mind sees them as. That is it!
Anon 5:24 I have to agree with you. I don't see the point in being in the church with all that goes on. I do not and will never have that kind of Godly fear. Maybe that is a bad thing, but like I said in a previous post I would never give up my family not even if I knew I wouldn't make it to heaven. I do not believe these people know what unconditional love is and part of it is probably because of the way they were raised. Because in my world a mother or father can… Read more »
Anon 2:08 this I noticed a lot the words "it is the church's decision" . So the top dogs consider themselves the church and no one else. And this is how sick their minds really are. I feel so sorry for the children in this church. I'm so glad I got mine out and they're able to see all of this
And before their change of the rules on caring for parents these older preachers didn't even have enough love to want to care for their parents or others to care for theirs when the average non Bible reader can figure out how they twisted the scriptures. It sickens me to no end.
I have never agreed with what they taught on moving.
'I do not and will never have that kind of Godly fear.' 1 Peter 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. In many ways I saw myself fearing them more than I should at all. We look to God because he is love, but I found myself in to many occasions fearing them in situations that I knew were justified in God's eyes, but would get in… Read more »
Lynn mm if you noted before I'm sorry,But I forgot if you mentioned if you go to a church now or not and I'm wondering where
That's the thing they will never argue because they know they can't.. But they make the excuse for themselves of why they don't.. which is pathetic.. you think one would want to discuss this type of thing. They are set in their ways and don't care about anything else or anybody. Oh they'll tell you they love and care about people which I used to laugh to myself right in front of them
In 1 Timothy 4:1-4 it mentions that the doctrines of devils is to forbid to marry and to command to abstain from meats. Forbidding to marry is a doctrine of devils because it does not stop people from having sex it just causes people to break God's commandments concerning sex. Commanding to abstain from meats is a little more difficult to see the evil influence but in application it is understood; meat is a labor intensive food. Man must hunt or raise livestock to have meat and then the animal must be killed cleaned and dressed and delivered to the… Read more »