Many people have found the blog recently who don’t have firsthand experience attending the sect. Their only knowledge of it is through a family member or loved one. The more you hear, the more red flags pop up. Sirens go off in your head, but you don’t know enough to do anything about it.
But the more you take the time to learn about the sect, the more your loved one’s behavior can start making sense. Only then can you get inside their head and help them rethink their commitment to the teachings of men. That’s why this blog exists, to deepen everyone’s understanding of Stanton’s historical roots and the premises of their often bizarre unbiblical doctrines.
Don’t get me wrong, understanding them doesn’t justify their behavior. But at least it will help you understand why your loved one acts the way they do. I want to give loved ones of Stanton members some tips for (a) understanding, (b) maintaining a relationship, and (c) helping those in the group find their way out.
I offer this advice with a profound sense of humility, since the main reason I started this blog was to help my mom see the chains she’s placed on herself. I wanted desperately for her to taste the freedom in Christ that I have, and that is hers for the taking. But after nearly 30 years of trying, she’s still entrenched in the Stanton sect. She helped start it. It’s a huge part of her identity as a human being, much less a Christian.
The fact that she’s resisted my efforts to convince her she was deceived nearly 50 years ago is no doubt a badge of honor in her circle of friends. I’m sure her superiors lavish praise on her for “standing firm” against my efforts to reason with her. But the truth is, there is always hope. Something could still click with her, and maybe someday she’ll be honest with herself that she’s been deceived. But it’s not as likely now as it was a decade or two ago.
Not everyone who reads this is in the same situation. Maybe your loved one is not as entrenched as my mom is. Though I have lost hope in ever seeing my mom free of the chains she’s placed on herself—free of the darkened pair of glasses through which she views our loving and gracious God—I know others whose loved ones are on the brink of leaving. Maybe they have doubts, and already see through some of the teachings of men.
For them, they might just need a little more courage to slip the chains off their feet and walk away. If that’s your loved one, this article is for you. Read the history here, study your Bible with renewed zeal, and develop a strategy for influencing your loved one to reconsider their undying commitment to fallible teachers.
Here are some tips for dealing with your loved one who is a Stanton member:
- Avoid a document dump. Giving them a document dump on all the cults and their techniques for manipulating members doesn’t work. “I’m in a cult”—said no cult member ever. They obviously don’t believe they’re in one, and they’ll just point out all the differences from the examples you bring up to justify their beliefs. You’ll need to invest in the relationship enough to filter through factual information and only bring up to them what you think they will see as persuasive objections to Stanton’s doctrines or practices. Take the time to understand their unique motivations for getting involved in Stanton, and work backwards from there. Ask them outright, why did you join? What convinced you? Show a genuine desire to understand their train of thought.
- You’re not a Christian. You are not a fellow Christian to them. This is why they leave their heads down after the “amen” when you pray over a meal. They can’t acknowledge that your prayer was actually heard by God, because you’re a “sinner.” You are either in a false church, or the “off church” if you’re from a mainline Church of Christ. Approaching them from the standpoint of a fellow Christian will just bring out their need to convert you and/or disregard your opinions. If you want to reach them, you’ll need to swallow your pride and humor them enough to communicate to them with the understanding that they have zero respect for your faith in God, no matter how deep it may be.
- They consider themselves Bible experts. They consider themselves experts on the Bible, although they’re clearly not. So unless you have a good grasp of scripture and are familiar with their lines of reasoning AND their objections to your lines of reasoning, pulling a few verses out for their consideration will have no effect. They will completely disregard what your pastor says about this or that verse, and pick apart any superficial arguments from Scripture—especially if it’s John 3:16 or any other popularized verse. If you want to base your reasoning with them on scripture, really get to know your Bible first so you can talk intelligently about the context of the verses they twist.
- Don’t be a hater. When you do bring up your objections about Stanton, don’t bash everything about it all at once. Just create food for thought. Ask questions that will help them reach the right conclusion. “Why do you have to ask permission from a Teacher to go to your niece’s wedding, just because it would require you to be out of town on a weekend?” Then ask where they see that in the Bible—because as far as you know, it’s not. A little humility and tact goes a long way in getting your concerns heard and taken seriously. Don’t be shy about planting seeds of doubt about lies they believe.
- Relationship is key to influence. I’m a foster parent, and a common truism for foster parents is “connect before you correct.” Kids, especially teens, need to feel a connection before they’ll be receptive to you correcting their behavior. This is true in dealing with your loved ones in the Stanton sect. Develop a genuine relationship, as much as is possible, and communicate clearly to them that you care—long before you bring anything up about the sect. “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”
Great post, Kevin. Much needed advice.
Very enlightening! As I look back some things that appeared odd to us and friends and family of those in this cult are becoming easier to understand. Thank you!
Wonderful and timely post, Kevin. It's well thought out and excellent advice! The thing I fought most when I was with the group was it's being called a cult-I thought ones just didn't know the group very well! But this website has folks on it that know the group very well, as most of us were in it at one time.
If I had known others had doubts too, it would have helped me to leave sooner. I didn't know that one of the reasons folks got withdrawn from for "murmuring" was to keep them quiet, and from causing others to doubt.
But now I see clearly that even keeping ones stuck in the KJV of the bible is another attempt to keep the meaning of scriptures obscure. And to keep ones away from newspapers, magazines, the internet-all a way of keeping ones from information that could affect how they see the group!
It's true that if you start seeking and reading information it may lead you away from the group, but that isn't a bad thing unless you are a leader in that group. And that is what they fear the most! Thank you Kevin!
Debby yes I agree. If I had known others had doubts I too wouldn't have felt like I was the only one. It would have helped me search sooner. But the leaders in Merie's church deceive and go around one's valid doubts. Instead of talking about the real reason our family left, they gave vague references and instead blamed it on sin and wanting the world and on Google. But it's ok to Google all you want about other religions and use it in your sermons! Just like other false religions, they don't want to admit or revisit their nasty past, and certainly not their completely unscriptural system that is based on power of a few and not autonomy and eldership.
Yes I use the NKJV and wow, all the stuff I was glossing over due to complexity of the KJV is amazing and it is really allowing a deeper understanding of the intent(s) of so many passages.
absolutely Seeking! The last May meeting that I was in the group still was the one about nylons and-get this-that the bread for the Lord's Supper can only be broken ONCE! The Spring Valley evangelist said-and I quote-"We can prove Christ only broke the bread once!"
I went to my bible and looked up ALL of the scriptures that talked about the Lord's Supper, and not one of them said he only broke it once. They simply state that he broke it, that's it!
Yet it's now doctrine for Merie's group that when the bible says Christ broke the bread, it means only once. No more, no less!
This discovery on my part helped to open my eyes to the way the group INTERPRETS scripture, even though they claim to NOT INTERPRET scripture. They claim to only speak where the bible speaks.
Funny you say that Debby they only speak where the Bible speaks also they of course add to be silent where the Bible is silent. One you know well said in a class this past year it was their church motto. I could've fell out of my chair when I heard this one say that if they only knew how deceived they are thinking that. Merie's cult followers being deceived is a scary place to be.
Kevin, one more thing that I would like to add to your advice and tips for loved ones, is to continually reaffirm their love to their loved one. Let them know that you still love them, and welcome them to family get togethers and events. That they welcome them to come over any time to visit, etc. This is very important! They need to know that they have ones outside of the group that still love them-that way if they decide to leave they have someone to help them!
I would caution the loved ones to not say that to the member still in the group (I mean don't say to them that you will be there for them if they leave the group), not unless their loved one is asking them that directly. It's enough to just let them know they are still a part of your circle of love!
I would like to add that members are taught to be superstitious. I was taught Ecclesiastics 7:14 in the day of adversity consider; if you see three or more things going bad or wrong this is God telling you he is unhappy with you. Members believe they have an understanding of God's mind and will by the little things that happen in ones life both the little good things and the little bad things. A persons car breaking down is a sign of God's displeasure and not a lack of maintenance. Getting a raise is a sign of God's pleasure. Nothing bad happening is a sign that your doing good. This and many other superstitions were taught to me when I was a member, and trying to reason with me would not work because I secretly understood what God was doing in my life and others did not. Looking back I wonder what others must have thought of me and my judgments which were based upon fear and superstition and not on sound reasoning and scripture.
I had not put two and two together but with the teaching of "three times it happened I knew it was God trying to tell me something" and then getting threatening phone calls at different times (once I star sixtnined the blocked call and it dialed the last number which called me and it rang and rang and finally went to voicemail which was one of the Christians homes) I see how the SCOC taught a superstition and then played upon that fear to control its members. This method of control has to be understood and the false teaching of superstitions revealed to break the chains that bind members into slavery.
The method to teach this superstition was very subtle now that I look back on it. First someone would share a story about another church in which one of the members, a wife of one of the members, would get threatening calls during the day; someone would call and ask if her husband was home and she said no, then the caller would say "good! I be right over, and this is what I am going to do to you when I get there." It was shared that this church turned out to be very wicked. Then the subject would be dropped for several weeks, maybe a month or two, then the teacher would question one of the older members in front of me asking "are you still getting phone calls at night?" The person questioned would first look at me to see if i was listening then answer in the affirmative. Then the subject would be dropped for another several weeks or a month or two, and then I started getting threatening phone calls. It would take a couple of months to set this up, but I was suspicious from the start. The power of suggestion, or planting of seeds, is a very powerful tool of influence. Predators have a grooming process over their prey; step one is to find a victim and then target that victim. You can tell when you have been chosen to be a target because the predator will stare at you. If someone is staring at you it means they are targeting you for something, maybe good or maybe bad. The teacher would, from the pulpit, stare at a different member from time to time and then the process of planting superstitions would start. When the teacher left Prescott to go out of state, to the Vallejo California congregation, the threatening phone calls and letters stopped. This method of control is very hard to detect and very effective, it is subtlety at its best.
With the teaching of: bad things happen to disobedient Christians, especially to ones wife when your at work, this would motivate you to be super obedient to your teacher to receive the protection of God. The threat of external enemies will build internal cohesion; even to an unpopular leader. If you wonder why your relative is so devoted to a particular group, even to the point of extremes, it might be they are being manipulated through fear. Adolph Hitler used this technique with the fear of the Jews. The Jew was vilified as a rat who attacked women and children and spread disease among the people. I often wondered how, well educated people, fell under Hitlers influence; it was through subtle methods of planting the threat of enemies and the protection the third Reich offered its members. It all came unraveled however when the allies started bombing Germany itself that the people realized that they were not protected. For me the false fears of external enemies came unraveled when I realized that bad things happen to all people. I was not protect from bad things happening to me because bad things happen to everyone. The way of the transgressor is hard (Pr 13:5) I was taught; but I have to ask: is the way of a Christian any easier? Christ was killed, as was several of his Apostles and the righteous were hunted down and imprisoned and this is an easy life? Life is full of both good and evil both for the believer and non believer. Many of the conversations I was included in as a babe seemed to me to be staged, but I believed them anyways, after all, these were Christians and Christians are good people even if misguided at times. Looking back I can see the staged conversations that let me in on the secret activities of God against rebellious Christians caused me to believe these people had God. Then one day I was painted as a rebellious Christian by my teacher, right at the two week mark after baptism and I spent years trying to get back into the blessings of God doing anything and everything to gain approval, I was a virtual slave to the church. I finally realized that if the leaders would ever showed approval that they would loose their faithful slave. I never found any blessings in the SCOC after the first two weeks though I sough it very diligently for twelve years.
Psalms 34:7 is the scripture used to enslave members to their teachers. The angels of the Lord encampeth around them that fear him and delivereth him. If you are being disobedient it is because you don't fear God and you don't have Gods protection. However Christ said in John 8:32 that ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free; free from religious oppression. I have learned that whether protected or not protected, whether blessed or cursed, whether full or empty, whether having a home or being homeless, to be faithful and believing in God. The SCOC's false promise of protection no longer deceives me because I realize that I must be obedient and thankful in all situation good and bad. David said in Psalms 37:25 that he had not seen the righteous begging bread but in Luke 16:19-31 it describes a beggar going hungry and then going to paradise with Abraham so the promise of food and raiment (clothes) is not always fulfilled to the righteous but the righteous are always faithful and believing in God in good times and in bad.
Very interesting especially knowing the preacher you are referring too.
Yes I've heard the rule of 3s though I've also heard it from nonSCOC Christians
The rule of three's is not an indication of god trying to tell us or teach us anything, but it is implied that this is how God speaks to Christians. With this false teaching in place then the teachers can "manufacture" three events to influence members under their control to do the teachers will thinking this is God's will. Subtle very subtle control.
Is this crazy or what?
Denial is a humans first response. Consider how Judas had all the other Apostles and followers fooled except for Christ; when Christ said one of you will betray me they did not have a clue who Christ was talking about, asking it is me? This shows how good Judas was at deceiving others. When Judas came with the Roman soldiers he betrayed Christ with a kiss, more deceit. Many false teachers have fooled the church, some for quite a long time, but in the end they are revealed for the grievous wolves that they are. The woman in Des Moines Iowa was an overbearing and abusive teacher for years and got away with it by constantly pointing out the faults of others when her behavior was called into question, but she was exposed and rejected, as was Judas. The teacher who started Prescott has an huge ego and anyone who questions him or criticizes him is run out of his church, the arrogant cannot stand to be criticized. Call me crazy today but in time you will see what many already know: the man is abusive and overbearing and has run many a believer out of the church who dared question him.
Did he run you out of the church Anonymous 3:40?
No my first teacher did not get rid of me, rather got rid of him by encouraging him to go and start a church in Prescott and when he tried and back down I wouldn't let him; I encouraged him all the more, saying "there are people up here who want to hear the gospel". Then he gave his "chosen men" lesson in which he put out the unwelcome mat and told us in Phoenix that we were no longer welcome in Prescott. Six months later after no baptisms in Prescott his wife started asking us why no one in Phoenix would visit Prescott and so some members from Phoenix went up for a Friday fellowship and the Prescott congregation had a baptism later that week; strange how love amongst your fellow Christians brings the blessings of God. I tried to do the same with the preacher from Albuquerque by encouraging him to start a church in Mesa Arizona and we had for several weeks split personal works and split non member classes one in each city of Phoenix and Mesa, but he was a spiritual sluggard and did not go out to Mesa and lead the new congregation and it fizzled out without a spiritual leader. The preacher from Albuquerque did drive me out of the congregation with his condoning of fornication, adultery, child abuse, and extortion, of his favorites that is his inner circle. His only real activity was getting rid of the white people from the congregation, one at a time; it would have become, in time, just like Albuquerque the preacher and his family and one or two women for ten years or longer. The preacher from Albuquerque was the epitome of a spiritual sluggard, all talk and no action, he complained about having to do all the work of getting the Mobile AL church up and going, but no credit for starting it as some other man had started it and fell away a short time later, so when the opportunity to be the first to start a new church appeared I thought he would jump at it, but no he was just a complainer and not serious at all. The abuse against my children and the felony child abuser going after others children at bible classes (after abusing his own children) was enough for me to decide this church was dead having no good fruits of love left to enjoy and so it was time to go forward, and I left. The unrepentted sins of many drove me out.
I wanted to add that another problem was members cars getting stolen during the Sunday worship service made it difficult to stay. The preacher from Albuquerque had men patrol the parking lot at fifteen minute intervals during worship and bible classes so everyone's car was there after class to drive home. Phoenix was a rough place to be if you were a sincere Christian, but if you were one of the insiders of the preachers ruling circle then it was great for you. The inner circle did commit felony child abuse with no reproof, rebuke, or withdrawal. Members of the inner circle committed adultery and all that was said was a pathetic retort: "those who have committed adultery are you happy now?". I finally figured out what double honor was: the preacher from Albuquerque would call around on Saturday's to find some one to do free car repair on his car then ask them to come over to his house and do it, free repair was one honor and free mobile service was the other double free equals double honor. No one else in the congregation got this level of slavery only the preacher. I myself am happy to help the needy but not the greedy. There were many single moms in desperate need of child support and alimony and did not get it and also did not get the free help the brethren could offer as it was being all used up by the teaching preacher. I dream of finding a congregation one day that has equal love for all members not just for the leader.
Are you speaking of WP?
Kevin has asked us not to use initials so I use the city where he came from: Albuquerque. I also dream of a congregation where the men are required to work and support the women and children in their lives (such as wives, daughters, mothers) and not, as is done, have the men leech off of the women. I have one man leech off of his mother, another divorced his non member wife, a H.R. director, and took half of her retirement, and the evangelist in Spring Valley allowed one woman to pay his legal fees. I have paid alimony and child support for a full eighteen years now and although it is not fun it is better than having to suffer God's wrath for failing to provide for my own. The evangelist by accepting payment from one person instead of setting up a legal defense fund in which all members who were able to contribute has in essence said: your money is not good enough for me. On judgement day, us men who are the stronger vessel and commanded to provide for others will be asked :did you support the evangelist? No Lord my money wasn't acceptable to him he only takes money from the women for his legal problems. I don't think God is going to like that answer very much. The stronger vessels should not be allowed to leech off of the weaker vessels this is wrong and was done all over the churches. It irritates me to no end to talk with Mormon women who proudly boast that they are stay at home moms, when the women in the SCOC are forced to go out and work while the men take it easy.
I left out that I dream of a church that requires all the men before they share in class, lead in prayer, stand before the people of God that they be current on both their child support and alimony and further more these men should not be allowed to give away their skills for free to anyone in the churches until their child support and alimony is current and no member is to accept a free services from any man who is not current on his child support and alimony and yes I am and have been current on my child support and alimony payments it can be done. These men can say look I want to help but I have to pay my child support and alimony so would you mind paying something for my services on your car, house, etc.? I think God would be glorified by many of that was done.
Anon you bring up a very good point about the evangelist-actually, I would like to expand that to both evangelists. One thing that caused me to wonder, and then to doubt, about the evangelists and Merie's group was the secrecy about how much we were paying them.
One woman in Tampa dared to insist on knowing how much the evangelist in Spring Valley was getting, and from which congregations-she got withdrawn from. The reason? They figured that the only reason she would be asking those things was because she had been in touch and reading some of the things written by a former teacher who is currently marked and avoided.
I guess it never occurred to them that a lot of us were wondering the same things, but hadn't read any writings of anyone!
I still can't understand why it's such a secret. The evangelists should be held accountable, just imagine the potential for abuse!
What amazed me was that while the evangelist in the south was getting paid a salary, he still called the Tampa congregation to get us to pay his car insurance-including for his dependents. So he was getting a salary, but he didn't have to pay his car insurance. Made me wonder what else he got paid for him, and just what he spent his salary on.
One of the first things I noticed when I started attending other churches, was that they were open and frank with their finances. I don't always agree with what they spend their money on, but at least it's posted on the bulletin boards and discussed at meetings, for all to see and hear!
What a difference!
Again, what are the evangelists wanting to hide? They claim it's their own business, but they forget that the members are the ones paying, and therefore they are accountable to the members. When you accept a salary from someone, they are entitled to know how much they are paying you. Even my employer knows how much they are paying me. No blank checks are handed to me, and I can't tell my employer that it's me private business and that they are not entitled to know how much they are paying me! It should be the same way in Merie's group.
The other thing that goes along with the secrecy in how much the evangelists are getting paid, is the hypocrisy when they call out requesting other bills to be paid for them.
Usually when a member is in need, he or she has to agree to answer some questions. Have you tried to raise money some other way? Have you sold your car or furniture, etc. to try and pay this bill? Have you tried to work out a payment plan with the company? etc.
Yet the evangelist can call any congregation, month after month, and request assistance without having to follow this protocol. Imagine what would happen to the congregation that dared to ask the evangelist-why? Why are you asking us to pay your monthly premium on a regular basis? Are you not getting enough money as a salary? Are you living beyond your means and therefore can't pay all of your bill? etc.
Just sayin'…
Excellent points Debby concerning the "evangelists" support as I have difficulties calling them such. I have a suspicion this may be part of the reason it was decided after 4 months of being a nonmember they chose to make me a member again with no explanation. Than 5 days later they withdrew from me. I began on this blog as a nonmember as I still am a nonmember to question the amount of GP and TC support because of the exact points you made. Me the nonmember still support them as my wife attends. This is very nauseating to say the least. I'm sure you are full aware that the two will be supported for life as it was determined at the 2014 March meeting in Mobile. What a joke. These two are the first two paid preachers of Merie's cult.
Yes the "no paid preachers" mantra is a farce, isn't it? It's all in how you define "preacher" vs. "evangelist."
Absolutely Kevin. I can't believe you'd get withdrawn from for asking the question about the amount of the support of the two. Incredible what would the offense be?
I actually think if GP and TC can be paid preachers that all the "preachers" in Merie's cult should demand to be paid.
Yup, for many years Gary Preman has been collecting money for his "taxes" from the San Antonio congregation on a quarterly basis. I once brought up this issue publicly about why he was being supported on a consistent basis ( money sent quarterly). You could have cut the air with a knife. I had clearly brought up a taboo topic. A mumbled explanation was given with a let's think about it and bring it up later if anyone wants to. But no one did and neither did I. It clearly did not feel like I could. Gary hadn't even gone to "evangelize " there in YEARS. We actually saw Tom more. And yes I heard other congregations sent him money too but no public accounting was given.
So now I go to a mainline COC and I don't care if the preacher is getting paid. At least they're not lying about it or keeping it secret while talking about others in hypocrisy.
Likewise Portland helps with GP quarterly taxes. Does anyone ever object. Haha no. Likewise Portland hasn't been visited by one of those two for 8 years come this July.
I'm curious as to how much he was asking for? Can you remember the dollar amount?
I was thinking the same thing. 🙂 I wonder if we could crowdsource to figure out his annual income from all the congregations. Lol
You wrote this so many times I believe I can quote it word for word.
I know rough amounts Portland contributes to GP monthly and for his taxes. Whatever the amount is it's too much. Doesn't deserve a penny. Matter of fact if they withdraw from members who ask, they should be withdrawn from for not revealing what it is. Are they not suppose to be serving the members? They know so much about others they can't answer a simple question. GP, TC and KS should be withdrawn from for all the unscriptural withdrawals including mine being a nonmember that have taken place under their watch. They should be withdrawn from for their unscriptural teaching and practices adding and taking away from Gods word. Come on Merie followers you can stop the oppression by no longer following these 3.
I saw one of the letters DC wrote that was about GP and TC's money from the treasury. The Christian Debbie spoke of apparently read the letter and wanted to know what he made. Like Debbie said she was withdrawn from, they said for speaking with DC.
Infopages.com list his pay as average of 37,230.00. I don't know what the breakdown is between his church salary and the pay he receives for working at his son's roofing company. I do respect him as a man though because he works and provides for his own. Proverbs 30:24-28 Solomon give a metaphor, that is a comparison of four things that show the wisdom of workers. The ants prepare for a future event and an example of this is John the Baptist who prepared the way for Christ(preparation is a field of work where a person often does the preparation but does not enjoy the fruit of one's labors, John the Baptist prepared the way for Christ but never enjoyed fellowship with Christ while on this earth) The conies are a feeble folk, yet they make their houses in rocks; an example of this is the women who are homemakers. Like the conies the women are weaker vessels yet they do the hard work of making a house a home. The locusts have no king yet go they forth all of them by bands and this is talking about uncontrolled workers who perhaps are also travelers an example of this is Paul the Apostle who went everywhere preaching and teaching the gospel to all great and small. One would think negatively of locusts reputed to devour every farmers crop they find; yet Christ said in John 4:35 that the field are white already to harvest and would a wise God let those harvests go to waste or would God let loose a band of locusts to bring them in? Paul and his band of traveling companions devoured the ready harvest of the world for Christ, just like a band of locusts. The spider taketh hold with her hands, and is in kings palaces. People who work with their hands are needed in the kingdom of God just as Pharaoh had butlers and bakers to take care of his carnal needs and not just wise counselors in his palace. When I was young I was told that only those who edify are important and do not to let setting up chairs be my righteousness. Without those who work with their hands, the spiritual will not have a house to worship in. All four types of workers are called wise: the preparers, the home makers, the traveling, and those who work with their hands. The slothful are not worthy of any respect. The evangelist in Spring Valley made around 20,000 a year in the nineties plus expenses. He spends his money on everyday things like food, gas ,rent, car repairs. I have been to the evangelist's house and he does not live in luxury he lives the life of a poor man. The comparison to the ICOC Kip Mclean show Kip's children went to boarding schools and ivy league schools like Harvard, I don't believe the evangelist in SV sent his kids to college at all. The evangelist does not always come to the church for help, sometimes he would do side jobs as an electrician, sometimes his son's employer would gift his son money, and sometimes he and his family would go without just like everyone else. My main disagreement with him is in the lessons given most were on church discipline and not the virtues like love and forgiveness. This person did this and is on their way to Hell, or this Church is going to Hell for this sin, and other sensational lesson were entertaining but not edifying. A lesson on forgiveness was never given, and much needed. How to love someone you do not want to love like a person of another race is a needed lesson but never given. Church discipline is the apple of the eye for church leaders it feeds their ego's to have such power over others and many have become lord's over the flock and not fellow helpers, to discouragement and departing of many members. The Bible is rich in lessons for those who seek it with the conscience, that is how to esteem others as equals.