No, you can’t withdraw from a nonmember.
On one facet of “withdrawal,” Merie was dead right, and current Stanton leadership is stunningly wrong in their quest to quash dissent. I remember her teaching that once someone leaves the church, the church can’t “withdraw” from them because they’ve already “withdrawn” themselves from the group. For this reason, the church cannot take disciplinary action against a nonmember. The sect has been apparently taking liberties with this, and stretching itself to extend its reach on disciplinary measures. They’ve even invented new forms of discipline to rise up to the task, like re-interpreting “mark and avoid” to fit their current desire to suppress dissent. But I’ll tell you right now, they are just sowing the seeds of tyranny. Here’s why.
What happens if your wife joins a crazy cult? Let’s use an example we can all agree on, like the Branch Davidians, or a Jim Jones type cult. She comes to realize that she wants out, because she doesn’t agree with the cult leaders anymore. She admits in private that she was deceived, but hasn’t had the courage to share that publicly, due to the fear and intimidation tactics of the cult. Instead of allowing her to leave of her own free will, and allowing her conscience to be her own guide, the cult members start using her family relationships to pressure her to stay in and keep her silent. Is that OK?
This is not theater of the mind. This is the reality of how cults work, to wit, Scientology (Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief). See any similarities?
Before you get your hackles up, I’m not arguing in this article that Stanton is a cult. That’s a subject for another time, but that’s not my point here. My point right now is that God has given us freedom of conscience and freedom of association. Those are natural rights from our Creator, codified by laws of men in our Constitution here in the U.S. We, by virtue of being humans fashioned in the likeness of God, are free to follow God or not. We can choose to associate with a particular church, sect, or even a cult, or not. We can likewise dissociate ourselves from former associations at any time. No one can make us a member of an organization we choose not to be a member of.
We each bear the consequences of these decisions, some good and some bad, but they are to be decisions freely made, and not under duress. As my parents used to say, “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.”
How does that relate to the Stanton churches disciplining folks who have left their membership, or who do not consider themselves a member at all? It relates, because if a church can simply declare a nonmember to be a member against their will in order to withdraw from them, isn’t that disingenuous? If they can impose disciplinary measures on nonmembers, where does it stop? Isn’t that oppression in the truest sense of the word? I’ll tell you where this unbiblical nonsense stops. It doesn’t. It is just tyranny, plain and simple. It’s the crassest form of lording power over people.
This approach to church discipline runs 180 degrees counter to Merie’s teaching on the subject, and gives free license to the church to persecute dissenters outside their ranks. We’re not talking about real trouble-makers trying to split the church, mind you, like Merie was when she was withdrawn from by East San Diego Church of Christ in 1958. No, Stanton is in the habit of persecuting Bible-studiers for becoming question-askers. We’re talking about dissenters who are attempting to reform hearts and minds and bring them back to the simple gospel.
But if you ask the wrong questions, Stanton leadership takes pride in not responding to your arrogance in questioning their supposed authority. By contrast, Jesus asked a lot of questions of the Pharisees, and castigated them for not being able to give straightforward answers. There’s nothing wrong with asking honest questions, unless you are trying to obfuscate the truth.
Do we really want a society where a church is free to persecute nonmember family members of members, and to take disciplinary action against former members who no longer consider themselves members? Sorry, I subscribe to the Golden Rule here. If I don’t want someone encroaching on my freedom of conscience or freedom of association, I better not encroach on theirs.
Can Merie's church I want to call it Merie's cult expose or rebuke you for following this blog? Well I've been withdrawn from for murmuring and sowing seeds of discord just yesterday. I wasn't in attendance. I'm also a nonmember. I guess they made a new rule just for me. Haven't been told what I murmured about or how I sowed seeds of discord either. January after it was determined my baptism was not right I became a nonmember. I'd attend worship only to spend time with my family. Hearing the same ole stale sermons by the one preacher was… Read more »
Correction on my last sentence I could never in good conscience attend their again.
What's interesting is that around 2010 and young preacher in California reproved in a talk at a meeting the old men as why was he up there teaching them when they should be up there teaching him. Where I am from there is a preacher that has been in since the 70's who has dry sermons. It was nominated for him to go ta May Week and it was turned down by other leaders stating that the reps are supposed to be leaders who are more active in the church and teaching. What I think is a detriment to a… Read more »
Wow Craig, what a difference this past year has made in your life since you have left this church/cult. You have reconnected with life,family and friends
and seen and participated in a healthy church. I am so proud of you son. And pray the rest of our family see the light. Blessings and love to you! Oh yes I remember being told I was not to use the word proud for some wacky reason or rule but here I am…Love you more than you know. Your Mother
Preacher text me and said I was the only one convinced I wasn't a Christian. This was on Saturday. I'd like to ask every member that question as of Saturday if that was a true statement. What I am convinced of is no one in Merie's churches is a Christian. Their own teaching condemns their own foundation. Followers of Merie are who they are. Ignorantly or not. So happy I'm a nonmember.
To add to my 5:52 post the preacher told me my baptism would be brought up before the congregation which he said I misunderstood which I did understand. Isn't it funny as a nonmember I have been bringing up questions about Merie's churches I've also had some criticism about them as well. Kevin has done a brilliant work in bringing out the proper scriptural understandings as well as I'll call it constructive criticism. Just change your false ways Stanton. Yet they seem not to be able to handle criticism. Yet that is all they do towards anyone outside of their… Read more »
Thank you for sharing your story, Craig. It's unbelievable to me the lengths they are going to to crush any dissent. Let me know how your visits to local churches goes. God is good. Don't give up on Christianity because of this.
Thank you Kevin, I'm a seeker for sure just can't believe they chose to do this to a nonmember and to my family. I'm going to take legal action is my mindset to have my name removed from any affiliation with scoc. Legal action I would not do if I was a member. I do have 3 churches to visit as I will one this coming Sunday. I'm looking forward to it. Visited my mothers church this past Sunday. Excellent lesson. A room where I'd like to say had more spirit than I've seen in Portland in years. Going back… Read more »
Craig, WOW, this is exactly what we predicted on another thread here last week. I AM SO SORRY that happened to you. I wish you had left because if you have family there, it's going to hurt. Sadly, withdrawal doesn't do what it's supposed to, as they say, (make you think about your sin and repent) but rather it just forces you to agree with them so you can have your family back in your life. I am curious what you mean by "going back to KG and MG". I doubt they can speak to you since you are withdrawn… Read more »
Seeking remember I'm a nonmember really don't care what they think on that. January declared with their counsel twice with the preacher and the second time the teacher was their too. From that point on I attended only to be with my family and for all but one Sunday I left after worship. The last Sunday I went to fellowship was after Merie's name was referenced 5 times and this member says the first person she wants to see in heaven is Merie. That was disturbing. Never when I attended was I served communion. Thus proving in their eyes I… Read more »
Yes KG is a good kind man in my experience. Too bad the churches aren't really autonomous!
Is the preacher in Portland MM?
Seeking…May 15, 2017 at 11:26 PM Last I knew MM was preacher in Portland. K and M G were always good to me. I first me them in Portland in the early 80s. I was able to talk to MG at the May Week in Tacoma. She asked me if the brethren we helping me in my situation and I told her I can't talk about that as I would have had to tell her no and that would have opened a whole can of worms. Unfortunately, she must have said something because a preacher I know from down south… Read more »
I agree, the churches are definitely NOT autonomous and they are kidding themselves if they think they are. 4 people run the show and everyone knows exactly who they are.
Yes MM is the preacher in Portland and should be removed for all the destruction he has caused over the years. For that matter the entire cult should be closed.
This is a very sad and frightening turn of events. Craig, I am very sorry to hear of your withdrawal after the church clearly recognized you as a nonmember. Remember this: unless the church has recently changed it's rules about needing a unanimous decision for withdrawals and other business, the decision was unanimous; there wasn't one person who openly disagreed with your withdrawal. The church makes up 'new' understandings to suit their purposes; silencing dissenters and scaring people into submission. This reminds me of the Tom and Dianne Collier fiasco in Des Moines, Iowa. Withdrawing from non-members… what next?
Kevin, there are so many thoughts crossing my mind on this post. I may have to comment more than once to put it all together. My first thought is that your example is very similar to my situation (though I bet it relates to us all in varying degrees). I was so bothered by what I was reading here, and comparing it to my own doubts and reviewing (examining!) my own experiences in Merie's church, I could no longer contain myself and told my family who was living in my home (husband and children) that I was leaving. My oldest,… Read more »
Thank you so much for sharing your story, Seeking. I believe the slow and steady drip of truth from stories like yours will bring the walls in people's hearts crumbling down eventually.
The funny thing is, that when I went there as a visitor almost 15 years ago, for years I fought my ex about it, pointing out that they were a cult and that there was some terrible fruit I didn't want my kids around. Part of my getting baptized there was that I wanted us to be united in important things, such as religion. I didn't want to fight about it anymore. The funny thing is my whole marriage to him literally was forced apart by their decisions (and those at the top), he lost an older son to withdrawal… Read more »
Seeking…May 16, 2017 at 12:42 PM You aren't alone there in the congregation ignoring you. It seems that if there is nothing there to withdraw from you for the congregation is told to withhold their fellowship and time from you. I had seen a lot of that. We see Jesus spending time with those who needed it because he was the physician, yet here we are exhorted to avoid those who we disagree with. In many times there is no sin. No sin committed and/or no sin being lived in. There was a child of 18+ of one of the… Read more »
So another thought came to mind upon reading your points about our God-given and American freedoms. I am wondering if there is a possibility of putting a restraining order on the church, in regards to applying any of their "discipline" on those who have left, such as in Craig's situation. I know there have even been lawsuits in which a divorced man/woman sued the lover based on stealing their spouse's affections (alienation of affection law). Similar idea, since they are literally splitting families, stealing affections. Also, there are significant bullying and similar laws that one could refer to. I'm not… Read more »
Interesting idea, for sure. I generally don't think Christians ought to be taking Christians to court, but I've also always believed the organizations we call "the church" in modern times are distinct from the membership. I'll give some thought to the concept.
Some thoughts seeking I know of a situation where one would've been withdrawn from but they did not come back. Never told not to talk to them. Another situation one fell away if they would've attended they'd been withdrawn from. They didn't sonknow withdrawal. 22 months later through the preacher said GP said he should've withdrawn from the second example so though they were not withdrawn from treat them as they were. This I always felt was wrong as in your case as well. Another new unbiblical rule. Makes you wonder where the Holy Spirit was with GP to misjudge… Read more »
Seeking, also researched legal action. I know in my case I have a few charges for sure I can pursuit to clear my name of membership from Merie's cult
I am curious about how ya'll found this blog?
I heard GP dared anyone to get on it and to let him know that they did. Once It was determined in January that my baptism was not good I wanted to do some research about the church and took GP up on his dare. If I had his phone number I would've let him know but I do not. More members need to see this blog as well without fear of being withdrawn from. Daring someone sounds like a bully mentality and I don't like bullies. How do you take care of a bully as they say punch em… Read more »
To add to my 5:35 post for some reason it didn't publish. Certainly didn't mean punch a bully in the mouth literally in this case. Rather take him up on his dare and read the blog. As I've said before elsewhere and I'll continue to say who with a good conscience could continue in this cult after reading all the horrid events that had taken place in this groups history and its present
Many of us were having our consciences seared there. But by the grace of God we were able to see the damage Merie's Church has done and continues to do.
You have been rejected by the leader of the SCOC, as has many others. You thought that you were serving God but in reality you were serving a man, who is very good at hiding his control of the church as a whole, but he is in full control of the church and most do not realize this. Now that you are officially rejects it is time to sit down and find out just who God really is. All the commandments must be kept as much as possible and study is the most important. Study the four gospels and find… Read more »
Anon can you tell us first how you found it?
Seeking, I googled Merie Weiss and found it. I would suspect that most current attendees have never heard of it OR are scared to read it. If there are current attendees reading it they don't dare share the fact they read it. If kevin published the newest readership stats people could be incriminated. It would be interesting to see the stats but publishing them would be unwise. Nobody wants to be withdrawn from and after hearing what craig is going through nobody is 'safe'.
I missed the fact that Kevin updated the stats today. Those stats are not at all incriminating. The stats I was concerned about are about location by state.
There is a recorded talk on here about him talking about this blog.. I know there is a Facebook page too but I understand it has been made private from the church now? .. Does anyone know if that Facebook page is still out there? I'd like to be a part of it.. I found this blog 2 years ago by always searching on people and merie…when I found this it felt like I hit the jackpot and set me free from all my worries!
Anon 6:47, email me and I can tell you what I know about the Facebook confusion. 🙂 Glad you found the blog!
I would like to see either another facebook page started or better yet a forum with threads of discussion. I feel that the new comments get easily lost.
On the web version the latest comments are on the right side. Can't see them in the mobile version. In mobile, scroll down to bottom of page n click web version.
I found it because a few of us were discussing Merie's letters and I had found a few PDFs on DCWs website years ago so I thought I'd pull them up again. Turns out Google IS my friend, after all. Get with Kevin privately on the FB one. There's another FB one but some of those people are super negative and mock God, not necessarily Merie's Church.
And yup, we did hit the jackpot!
To add to my 11:00 post the 6 baptisms in 19 years I referred that are currently attending are from the work
To GP, TC and KS let's stop playing games with my marriage and my family. Your unbiblical, unrighteous and downright fraudulent withdrawal of me a NONMEMBER is also affecting nonmember family. Way to go let your darkness of this cult to not shine. Brilliant you are not. Okay got that out of the way. Lift my withdrawal I don't want no association with your evil group. Legal action is coming to clear my name that is all I want. I'd never even consider being a member. I do not recognize the withdrawal anyways. No one even told me. Finally got… Read more »
My son told me about this church just recently. I was in total shock although after reading most of all of this website and thinking about it and the years they were involved in this church some things are explained now and I think it is a cult. I pray my daughter in law and children get out of here before it is too late. She is willing to lose her husband and family for this sick unhealthy church? I can't believe it. She will lose everything and for what? Not for God that is for sure. For a cult.… Read more »
I need to add "I pray she is strong enough to leave this cult and her love for her husband and children strong enough that she will leave". I would not call it a church. Otherwise she has betrayed her husband and forgotten her wedding vows.
Anon 900 I almost thought you were MY mother in law at first, that is how similar so many of our stories are. Please remember a lot of people there think they are truly doing right by God. Treat her as best you can with love. Initially my family n in-laws were dismayed at my choices with the church and my looking down at them. Someone was praying because I finally was able to see that place for what it is. I wish you all well and hope Craig and his family can come out of this intact.
Just remember the truth will set you free! And something else is open communication . Looking forward to seeing our family whole again and we will all be stronger and healthy again! I had no idea all this was going on over these years. No wonder so many have health issues with stomach,headaches,etc.
Step one into a cult is love bombing the new recruit. Love bombing is not one thing but a whole group of behaviors to make the individual feel unconditionally loved and accepted. The fantasy of all love is taught in the first stage. Stage two is the enslavement phase and is done incrementally "you don't take off what you put on" until all of the recruits time and money are taken away. Nothing the new recruit does is acceptable and is constantly asked to do more or give more. Stage three is the rebellion stage where the slave rejects their… Read more »
It is a beautiful day and I have the joy of the Lord in my heart. Yes, I said joy! I am reading nearly every word of this blog and opening my eyes to the way my son and family have been living nearly all of their marriage. I love my family! I know that God will heal the hurt,pain and misunderstanding and miscommunication that has gone on in this cult. They will be free one day (maybe not in my life time) but I have faith they will all be free. My husband would have (if he were alive… Read more »
Thank you for reading, and I'm glad you have some faith in God for the future of your family. I am writing an article right now addressing the perspective of friends and loved ones of people in the sect. I'm finding more and more family members reading this blog. Stay tuned.
An leader with a superiority complex, the arrogant, will never say anything good about another person. How do you know when you have done something good or acceptable in their opinion? Silence. With the arrogant, who will not say anything good, then by default silence becomes approval. If the arrogant disagree with something you have said or done the are very quick to correct you. When the federal employee in the Stanton CA congregation stood up to give a talk and spoke about slapping his daughter at the dinner table, and the wrong daughter got slapped by mistake, the Evangelist… Read more »
A present evangelist?
The evangelist in Spring valley is arrogant calling himself a "control freak". Domination and control are they identifying marks of an arrogant person. The evangelist in Spring Valley has also said that even if someone is right "do not give them any satisfaction" again an arrogant attitude to refuse acknowledging the truth to remain in a position of superiority over others. Yes it was the evangelist in Spring Valley who sat in silent approval in 2002 when the talks about slapping children in the face were given.
Anyone have audio of the 2002 talks about slapping children in the face?
The first talk was done by John Grotroe and he was ashamed of his behavior. The man following him, the federal employee in Stanton, made his comments before giving his talk and I do not believe they were recorded as part of his talk.
Have it. Will upload by tomorrow.
Sorry the talks were stripped of that one.
I still have a lot of talks still on tapes and discs that I will look through. Anybody know the name of the talk?
There is a danger in listening to the recorded talks: that is how the unscriptural teachings are spread and if you start listening to cassette tapes instead of studying your bible you will become deceived. Paul the Apostles taught in 2 Thessalonians 3:10 that if any will not work they should not eat; the exact opposite is taught in many of the lessons. Parasites, and those that choose to live the parasitical lifestyle, are true burdens to others and some men in the church choose to be parasites rather than working full time and practicing money management. I was discouraged… Read more »
All this sickens me.. I knew some of this.. But to actually teach someone to wait till someone dies…sick sick sick! And people accept this junk! Unreal…. Just unreal! They want nothing to do with the so called worldly people but they would sure take their money… Lol
It was the example set by a teacher during a talk, he was boasting, implying that God was blessing him with 8,000 dollars; and he was the same one who encouraged a twenty five hour work week to get more government benefits and many men followed his example and neglected their wives and children financially hoping for a big inheritance too. The scriptures say different in Proverbs 13:11 he that gathers by labor shall increase, it is by labor that men are to provide for their families and not time and chance (yes government benefits are helpful but benefits should… Read more »
I remember hearing how welfare was put in place to benifit Merie's followers. Yes, don't challenge your teachers or else you'll get in trouble even though what you bring to them is correct. Who's the stubborn?
Some different ways Merie's cult and dictators handled and handles withdrawals rather they are righteous or more commonly unrighteousness. You commit a sin deemed to be withdrawn from and you come to the meeting you are withdrawn from. Don't dare object right GP, TC and KS. If you don't come to your withdrawal meeting you may or may not be withdrawn from. If you were not withdrawn from GP may up to 22 months later and declare I should've withdrawn from them. Treat them as they are withdrawn from. Someone withdrawn from declares they are not a member but the… Read more »
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Kevin is hard up for money.
Why would Kevin be hard up for money? That's a silly immature statement. It's what is known as spamming. It happens all the time on blogs, nothing new.
Wisdom is a behavior that is seen when a person exercise self restraint. Foolishness is a behavior that is seen when a person does not exercise self restraint. A glutton is a person with an unrestrained desire and the desire can be for food, work, or any of a number of other things. The wise will restrain the desire not to nothing or zero but rather to that which is good. (Proverbs 11:23) In our minds if we will restrain our desires to just what God's law allows we develop wisdom through self restraint. If I only desire my spouse… Read more »
I was instructed when I was a babe in the church not to be looking around at others but to look at myself in all matters and this caused a great blindness in me and in others. In the book of proverbs it gives many warnings about the wicked, the fools, and others who will willingly and unwillingly do you harm but I always wondered how to identify these dangerous people and then avoid then,(and especially not become a dangerous person myself.) The book of proverbs gives many identifying behaviors of both the wise and the fools and the righteous… Read more »
And the members actually go along with the so called one brother one sister reasoning.. Crazy!
Maybe everyone celebrating Christmas. The blog has slowed down missing Kevin. Happy New Year!
Love every one of you! Hope you are doing well with the blessings of the Lord!
One of the biggest stumbling blocks I was taught is that God is not good. When you do not believe in the goodness of God you lose interest in your salvation very quickly. I finally realized that my teacher was not God or the personification of God but rather just a man. A man who was very self centered and got jealous of anyone else who got any attention while he was present, and he used insults, put downs, and any other type of belittlement to make you look bad so he could once again be the center of attention.… Read more »
Yes probably spending time with family since so many of us didn't do it for years… that's what this holiday season is for! To treasure those who truly love you and are there for you no matter what … even when we treated them harshly or in a judgemental way because of the cult.
Here's to 2018… happy New year to you all, and may it bring peace and joy in truth!
It is sad you were treated the way you were and thank goodness you got away Anon 12/30.
I have been a Christian for years and never think about God cursing me. What a joy Christmas can be if we don’t have to put up with family members in the cult as was always a depressing downer. Praying for some joy in each of you that has escaped and happiness. And Praying for those left behind that God will reveal to them the real truth! Happy New Year!
Thank you. As I go through the book of Psalms I read of the great relationship David had with God, how he so freely made his requests know to God and how he said God loaded him daily with blessings, and how different a church under oppression is. When prayer requests were made it became a source of ammunition for persecution and not a source of help; as a result fewer and fewer prayer requests were made. I often have to stop and ask myself when reading the book of Psalms where is this God that David keeps talking about?… Read more »
2017 was a big eye opener concerning Merie’s church. With a clear understanding that I’d only gotten wet 20 years ago and being a nonmember I had no problem checking into what this church is really about. Disregarding the bully paid preacher from SV and his threat I chose to do my do diligence and apply my God given right to read this blog. What I read sicken me to think I was involved with this as I know now cult. As Kevin’s last article titled the real off church I could now easily prove as such. How disingenuous these… Read more »
I am so proud of you son and how you are moving forward with your life as we all pray for our other family members to see real truth. 2018 is going to be a great year. We have sunshine which makes me want to write and journal about m y own life with Jesus. Remember all who are reading this The Promises of God. 1 Kings 8:56 and many many others. I wonder if they ever discussed them? Happy New Year!
If you have not studied The Promises of God I encourage you to do so.
In my studies of human behavior I find very clear indicators of future behavior in Solomon's Proverbs. In Proverbs 6:26 it mention that the adulteress will hunt for the precious life and having read a few tales of adulteress whom convinced their paramours to kill their husband it rings true. An adulteress will seek for the precious life, that is the good life, the rich life, and will resort to killing if necessary to get it. One woman raised in the seven day Adventist religion and married to a leading preacher simply went through the church records of tithing's which… Read more »
Should I allow contact from SCOC active members after separating in 2002? I avoid the more aggressive members from the Phoenix group and I can't believe the preacher from Albuquerque has anything good to say. The preacher from Albuquerque refused to take my phone calls or council with me for the last six months I was active, this is silent rejection and wisdom teaches that when people reject you you are to reject them in return. John the Baptist was a gate keeper, he demanded fruits of repentance from the Pharisees who came to his baptism, this was to prove… Read more »
Hi everyone! I have a question I would like to throw out there, and have you all share scriptures that would answer it.
When a member of a “church” KNOWS they teach man-made doctrines and they recognize there is controlling/ oppression issues within, what does the scripture say about continuing to be a part of that “church”?
For me Donna I start with ecclestics 3 there is a time and season for everything. There is a time to suffer under oppression but there is a time to speak against it. When the oppression turns criminal like physical abuse, defrauding the Lord's treasury, stalking brethren and reporting back to the oppressive leader your every word or action, then it is time to get out. My children were abused at church babysitting and today my daughter is 21 and displaying the same behaviors of her abuser, the cycle of abuse is hard to break, it would be easier to… Read more »
Thank you Anon 7:22. I pray that more members of Stanton “churches” flee before things turn violent, but I understand why so many of us endured years and even decades of oppression. To me it comes down to that sect stealing people’s identity when they instil in you NOT TO LISTEN TO YOUR HEART. When we believe lies because we were taught not to trust our own judgement, we don’t see leaving as an option. A scripture that was used against all the “false religions” with Stanton’s group was 2 John 9-11Anyone who does not continue in the teaching of… Read more »
Yes Donna and with 2 John 9-11 people can be in full fellowship and attend every church function and not have God due to their own disobedience the Pharissee were an example of this, they were some of the most religious people on the face of the earth and yet the most wicked killing the Christ.
Donna to me Matt 15:14 is a good verse. It tells you what to do with people who teach their own rules/doctrines.
"Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”
So we do what Christ himself commanded here. Leave them.
M Long: that is a good one. When people are so controlled and fearful to leave, but are ‘sitting on the fence’, I believe that scripture is the second best answer for their rescue- prayer being the first.
Everyone please pray for those who are still captive by man-made doctrines. Pray that they can know the true doctrine of Christ based on love, the greatest commandment. Matthew 22:36-40
What a good discussion Donna. It gives me hope that my family members may someday leave.
For me it was – Matthew 18:15-17 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a… Read more »
"people can be in full fellowship and attend every church function" What was going on was that this is what many of the teachers, and through them, many of the members were doing the same thing of judging people's righteousness by their attendance. There was an older brother, who was hurt and it hindered much of his movement and somebody said that was a great encouragement to them to see them, "pushing their flesh" to go. Another sister in another congregation broke their leg and it was hurting them so much one night they were going to stay home, but… Read more »
Oppression is very alive in Merie’s cult. Just ask the Tacoma member’s and the teacher who applied it. Well she’ll have some time to think about it. Very disturbing things I heard throughout my 20 years which many had a common denominator. Oppression.
A new topic should be on identifying secret or hidden teachings within the SCOC. Through observation I have identified some such as a new member is not allowed to have friends outside the church this is taught as we don't fellowship with the world and you are going to be kicked out because we shall judge our brethren. Studying false religions I see the same or similar hidden rules in their groups, false religions like the oneness Pentecostal group and the Jehovah witness. Hidden teachings do exist and are used against fellow members.
Anon 6:22- It is true SCOC have hidden doctrines- hidden until they feel like they have you captive, and then they come out with the man-made “judgements and doctrines’ that you wouldn’t believe unless your mind has been clouded by so-called “LOVE”. Hidden doctrines such as rules for the marriage bed are kept from ‘babes’. I remember, very vividly, a brother who was trying to help, who made copies of May meeting questions and handed them to everyone at class, including BABES. He about lost his head over that one! SCOC goes to great lengths to snare new members, just… Read more »
I used to believe that too, in that we ignore our friends and family, until I studied more on this verse – Luke 16:7-9 7 Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore. 8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. 9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when… Read more »
I cannot even imagine going to church and having oppression all around me. Once again I mention so many health problems in the cult I am familiar with and even though I am not a doctor I do have common sense and can see how some of these health issues can be eliminated if they could just break away and live a normal life. And this tattle tale issue is another sick example.
Ezekiel chapter 33 was often used, I believe, as a way to convince members to tattle on others to the teachers. These same scripture will apply to those who know false doctrines are being taught , but who sit on the fence and ignore the facts. Warnings are not only blatant outcries, but the nudges from the Holy Spirit.
I have used this to apply in these situations and teaches me how to be, as well. Ezekiel 34:1-4 1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock. 4 The diseased have ye… Read more »
Lynn: I think about these verses and the serious consequences there would be for not abiding by these laws. Stanton is too busy building anyone up in pride that they don’t have time for helping the infirmed. As soon as someone shows their loyalty to their teachers by tattling, they begin grooming them for responsibility and “teaching” and preaching. This cult does not teach anyone to fear God, but they teach to please men among them. It’s no surprise that pornography is a problem in their ranks because FEAR doesn’t change a man truly. Love and respect for God brings… Read more »
I meant to post the verse of the scripture I referred to-
Isaiah 65:5
If I remember correctly BB was always being tattled on by YOU. Why, because you believed the scripture and were duped? Or because it gave you a sense of power against your husband.
That happened to me in that I counsel with the "Preacher from the south" about an area that I was having to deal with with my wife in helping keep the house clean and he told me to leave her. The next Sunday his wife ripped me a new one in morning class. Between the both of the I received no help and I never counseled with them again. Many times is was brought out in classes that I wouldn't. So, when PC was in town I counseled with her about something and shared that with another brother and that… Read more »
But….do you all still believe that salvation is only in the C of C. I don't mean the SCOC.
This whole debate about salvation through a specifically named church comes about as a result of a deep misunderstanding of what the "church of Christ" really is. Back in the 1800's, when Thomas Campbell, and later, Alexander Campbell, Barton Stone, et al, used that term, they meant it not as a proper noun, but as a description. It was the "church belonging to Christ" not the "Church of Christ." Jesus' church, made up of all saved believers throughout the world, is not Biblically a denomination (a named organization). It is only a spiritual body of individuals, and there is no… Read more »
Donna, do you believe the above? You go to a C o C now, I think you said….do they believe that you can be saved outside of the C o C doctrine on baptism for instance.
I have to disagree with Kevin on one part and that is how to identify the true believer and that is through their behavior. I have met believers who have all the fruits of the spirit, including understandings of the scriptures in groups other than the SCOC and I have known members of the "I knew Marie club" who have none of the fruits of the spirit but rather personify Satan. It is by their behaviors the righteous and wicked are identified both in and out of the COC's. Babes are taught not to look at others but at themselves… Read more »
Anon 1:56, with what do you disagree? I agree with your comment above completely.
My bad I misunderstood a part of your post.
Anon 11:58 I do belong to a Church of Christ and I do believe there are Christians in other churches because I have met many people who are followers of Christ and have witnessed the sacrifices they are making, which is far greater than anyone in the SCOC. I have heard ‘their story’ and have been amazed how God is working in their lives. God is MUCH bigger than the box the SCOC puts him in- because He is not limited to that tiny sect of individuals as to who He hears the prayers of.
Donna, that''s not what was asked. does the coc you go to "believe that you can be saved outside of the coc doctrine on baptism". Does "their story" include that they followed acts 2:38.
Anon 4:18 the church I attend teaches that baptism is nessasary for salvation, but we also do not condemn those to Hell who believe differently. Does God want us to abide by the letter of the law, or does He want our heart? He will judge.
Anon 4:18, why don't you say exactly what *you* believe rather than trying to pin down Donna on what her church "believes." I have news for you, "churches" don't believe anything, they are simply legal entities for tax purposes. People believe things, not organizations. I'm pretty confident that the people who attend Donna's church believe a pretty wide spectrum of things regarding salvation. That said, I have been clear on this site that I believe a person needs to believe and obey the gospel as in Acts 2 in order to be saved. Can God, in his infinite wisdom, make… Read more »
so donna, if "baptims is necessary for salvation", but if someone believes differently, then they are not saved? K…isn't gods infinite wisdom found in his words
Anon 642 Donna and Kevin have both answered your question. And God's infinite wisdom may be found in the Bible but because it's humans without infinite wisdom who read and interpret it, well, therein lies the issue.
What is at issue here is not the method of salvation (which is baptism) but rather is the Marie sect, the one true church as it claims. The answer is in their behavior. If a church substitutes criticism of others for biblical doctrine is it still a true church? Not in my experience, what it is doing is feeding its members faith in their own supremacy rather than feeding their members faith in God. Once a church departs from the strictness of the gospel it is downward ride into Hell. When I went out from my dying church it no… Read more »
M Long, that's exactly right. Anon 6:42, words are like pixels rendering an image. The image in the mind of the artist is perfect, but the pixels, and the device they are rendered on, limit how clear the pixels convey the artist's intent.
So it is with words. God's thoughts are perfect. Words are imperfect vehicles for those thoughts, and humans are even more imperfect as interpreters of those thoughts. We vary in intelligence, education, ideological biases, etc.
Yes Kevin and I find God is not limited to his word as we humans are. An example is seen in Matthew where Christ teaches that if any would deny him before men then Christ would deny him before God and later in Matthew we read of Peter denying Christ before men and he was not condemned but forgiven, truly God is greater than his law because he shows mercy and forgives, and we should do the same. Another example with Peter in Acts 12 is how Herod because he saw it pleased the Jews put Peter in prison but… Read more »
Great examples, Anon 8:39. Too many Christians need to learn more humility. We don't know the complete mind of God in every circumstance. We're human. It's impossibile for a finite being to know how an infinite being will react to someone else's life choices. We can teach what we know with humility, but never with absolute knowledge of how God will ultimately judge the situation.
Anon 7:45- My husband and I were baptized into the SCOC church very young, 19 & 20 years old. We believed what we were taught on salvation; Hear, believe, repent, confess, and be baptized. Over a process of time teachings were added that we did not believe, and each time we tried to counter them, we were belittled, labeled as ‘spiritually immature’, babes without understanding, and told to accept the counsel of the “older ones”. It’s ironic that these same “older ones” deemed us ‘ready’ to ‘go out’ to help a congregation in Illinois months prior. I endured withdraw twice… Read more »
Donna, your story, and more importantly, the story of your two daughters, speaks volumes. I've never met them or you (that I know of) but I'm grateful to know your story. It's inspiring, and should inspire everyone reading this to know that Jesus is alive and well outside of Stanton.
Donna, at risk of sounding like an evangelical, 😉 what an amazing testimony. I too found a place to worship that sounds similar to yours. How neat about your daughters. I pray your husband joins you one day. I met him once. Nice, nice man.
M Long- I’m very happy for you that you found a church you like. When I first visited my church I realized that God had his hand in me finding it. My spirit was certainly set free and I was able to enjoy praising Him, rather than be concerned about tedious details about how the “worship” was to be conducted. Merie’s cult has no idea what it is to PRAISE & worship God. For anyone who is afraid to step into a church after leaving Merie’s cult, please trust God and take that step. You won’t regret it. Go with… Read more »
Anon- You are right, I did tattle on my husband. I was taught and believed we had a responsibility to do so. In hindsight it was partly due to pride, and it was this faughtly practice that pitted wives against their husbands and took authority from the man of the home. I regret those things. I have to say that when I was sat down just before I left the Des Moines congregation, God helped me see myself and it was in the spirit of humility that I was able to see the practices of that cult that are so… Read more »
Donna, spot on concerning the destruction of the home. They should be so ashamed of the damage that is caused by their teachings, rules and practices that are not authorized by God. Tattling is huge in Portland as well. A common saying I’d hear from a teacher was keep on talking. Get counsel. These people cannot think for themselves. Numerous times what I heard from the teacher and preacher were wrong. Point keep talking and get counsel good chance you’ll end up tattling on your spouse about something.
What is destroyed is trust. Not being able to trust your spouse destroys the foundation of the marriage relationship. Whatever I said to my wife came out the teaching preachers mouth the next bible class as reproof so I stopped talking to my wife and separation and divorce followed. It would have been more acceptable if the reproof had a scriptural basis but it was put out as an insult, (as in I know you secrets and will publicly humiliate you as I please.) My sexual activities with my wife were publicly shared, there was no privacy, no intamcy between… Read more »
Anon 6:11- so true that trust is destroyed. I’m sorry that happened between you and your wife. I’m still trying to figure out WHY we didn’t leave after we questioned the judgements that led to our withdraws concerning marriage bed rules. We were very young, and that was used against us. “You are babes. You don’t have understanding.” Yet, he was right. Counsel was dead wrong, yet they refused to ask forgiveness of anyone. WHY we didn’t leave? I’m still learning these things as I continue to recover from the negative effects this cult. Co-depentdants are what that cult breeds.… Read more »
Hey Donna! I can't answer as to why you didn't leave, but I can share some of the reasons I didn't.I was raised with a verbally abusive and physically abusive mother. It took me awhile to realize that I was used to being criticized and ridiculed. To me, it was normal. One time my husband heard me talking to myself "How stupid can you be?" etc. He stopped me and told me to never talk to myself like that again. He shared with me that he knew I wasn't stupid, and that often we believe our own words. I realized… Read more »
Donna, I completely understand. I ask myself a lot of Why's too. Anon, I agree that trust is destroyed in many marriages in the SCOC. It pushes counsel so much that it becomes normal to tattle on your spouse. I did plenty of it. This week marks a year I left Merie's Church. This has been the best year of my marriage. For some reason my husband and I were finally able to better talk thru the issues in our marriage. Before we just wanted to be told what to do in our situations but it meant telling on each… Read more »
M Long- congratulations on making one of the most serious decisions in your life a year ago. Now you can LIVE! I have been out for three and a half years. I have been able to rebuild relationships with my grown kids. I was in SCOC 36 years! Sometimes I get frustrated that my husband still goes, but “there ain’t nothing gonna steal my joy!”
How long were you and your husband in?
Donna, I was in for almost 10 years with my 2nd and 3rd years fallen away/withdrawn for not leaving my then-husband FP because our marriage was deemed unscriptural due to his adultery in his first marriage (long before me). He's been a member for 34 years now and still goes. My husband now was in for about 5 years and had no COC experience before.While I hate the damage divorce does, I am thankful for my 2nd marriage to someone who cares more for his family than about Merie Weiss. My ex literally still has originals of some of her… Read more »
M Long- you had me concerned there for a moment as you said your husband has been in 34 years and still goes. I was relieved when I read on. The subject of “marriage & divorce” was on the table probably 10 years, ruining marriages and splitting families. That was one of the big subjects on the timeline I drew with the teachings that came and went with each May meeting.
Happy you got out and have your beautiful family and a husband who has time to spend with them and you.
Donna.. I was one of those that had to divorce because of the church
Anon 4:32 I’m sorry you had to go thru that. It infuriates me to remember how they “toyed” with that topic back and forth. You never knew from one May meeting to the next if you were going to be married!
I didn’t go through this but I had those close to me who did. Then the kids who were left in the wake didn’t see the faithful Christian very much because they were not able to travel without counsel.
Donna, so they actually went back and forth with this? Letting couples stay married then changing their minds? Mine was approx 9 years ago
Anon 5:14 they sure did! One May couples were told they must separate so men had to find another place to live and women had to seek employment, and children were greatly affected. One man in the congregation we were in was literally thrown out of his house by his wife. He rarely got to see his sons. Later the judgement was reversed, but the damage never could be.
Donna… Sad sad.. So what is their so called rule now?
Often spoken words from still the only preacher in Portland for now over a year+ while getting haha counsel from him. He’d tell you what to say to your wife and his parting words were “let me know what she says”.
Craig- the Stanton “churches” find whichever spouse is more loyal to them, then turn them into a teacher. As we have all seen, it is more often the wives who are groomed to be teachers, and in the wake the husbands are depicted as unstable, weak men. That group loves to have women in the lead tofollow in the footsteps of their leader. They leave men believing they are unworthy, incapable, lacking backbone. They destroy the spirit of these men. For the same reason these men don’t trust their own judgement when they consider leaving “the faith”.
Donna excellent points. Yes, I can reflect of how many men in Portland were deemed weak by the preacher thus incapable of being a help.
There are very powerful psychological reason why you stayed so long and suffered the abuse. The steps in recruitment are: invitation to an event, love bombing, prize dangling, obtaining agreement that the recruit wants the prize, threats to withhold the prize to discourage dissent, guilt creation, punishment and reward depending upon behavior, absolute control (of information, of environment, of interactions, etc.) These steps are the basics of recruitment and indoctrination. By controlling members outlook on life cults are able to brainwash members into obedience to the leader. It is only when a person adopts a different outlook on life that… Read more »
Anon 9:39- very shortly after I left this cult I suddenly realized just how much I had cut myself off from “the world”. I did not know my neighbors. I really regret bringing up my kids with this mindset. All I can do now is to pray for my family and be a light to them. At my church, myself and a few others started a RECOVERY group. Most of the attendees are recovering addicts. For me it is a very different story., but we all share many of the same emotional scars. Our group is named “Out of Darkness”,… Read more »
Anon 9:39 can I ask which congregation you were in and how you came to be so well educated on the physiological aspects of cults?
I meant psycological
How many out there felt like “I didn’t sign up for this”’ after we were baptized and started to hear teaching that was new and different?
I look back and feel like I SHOULD HAVE, but teachers smoothed things over and made us look up to them.
Donna, wow great question. 100% I did not sign up for what I would end up hearing that could not be backed up with scripture. Love bombed in the beginning. Going through 20 years of Merie’s cults rules when I was not even a member makes it even more disheartening that I wasted the years that should’ve been invested wisely. I’d love to see confidentially how many currant and former members feel the same as your comment. I was certainly lied to concerning what I was really getting into as information that is important before getting involved should be made… Read more »
Donna my burning question on cults was how did they do It? Cults come in every shape and size and can be centered around anything, such as business, or politics, or religion. What makes a cult good or bad is the morality of the leadership. In business cults example Amway they use deceitful accounting practices which is evil and many Amway members have been investigated for tax evasion by the IRS, but members of the Dave Ramsey business cult have not. Dave Ramsey would be considered a good cult due to its morality, Amway bad due to its lack of… Read more »
Anon 6:56 It seems SCOC recruited members by offering them membership to become one of the very few who followed “truth” and to no longer be ignorant, as if it were a privilege.
The method of recruitment differs from person to person and church to church but once a member it is slowly revealed that they serve a spiritual leader here on earth and put aside the son of God as unimportant. The mandating of women wearing nylons is just another example of totalitarian leadership, that is setting a dress code for members by leadership. The deeper lessons in love are replaced by backsliding into carnality and Judiasm. The teaching of women do not wear that which pertains to a man, that women so not wear pants with a zipper on the front… Read more »
A behavior of evil leaders is to legislate (create rules and regulations) that force others into obedience to their authority. The organizational laws(sometime called bylaws) do not exist in the real world only within the group and only during the reign of the leader who created them. Once the leader has been replaced the followers are told "we no longer do that". New bylaws are created by each new leader for the period of their reign. Christians thankfully have written scriptures to follow and not the whims of each new leader. Many "judgements" have come and gone as the SCOC… Read more »
Step 8 in recruitment is absolute control. At this stage the leader takes over the life of the recruit. The leader controls the information the recruit can access, the leader controls the people you interact with, the leader controls the environment you are exposed to, and the leader dictates your dress code. At this point the recruit is now a member and is totally under the control of the group. I saw this in the SCOC I attended.
The weakness in converting a COC into a cult of personality is that it demands over dependence upon an authority figure rather than virtuous living. When a weak Christian is tempted by Satan that Christian will give into temptation rather than follow the example of Christ who refuted every temptation Satan presented him with. When tempted with the love of a fornicator/adulteresd/whore (let's call it strange for brevity) refute that person by saying the love of a spouse is sweeter than honey, the love of strange is the poison of a scorpion. The love of a spouse is described in… Read more »
Anon 1:10 can you explain what is “ a cult of personality” please?
Isn’t it also that weak members give into temptations because they try to fill a void that is there from not having a true relationship with God because they serve man?
Cult of personality is when one exalts themselves above God, making themselves a god in the process. The beginning stages a cult leader will use the scriptures but will quickly assert their will as more important, how many times have you been told "Marie said" instead of Jesus said?
Wisdom is being able to create a big effect with just a few words. One example of this is in financial matters between believers. Christ was asked one time to say something to a man's brother so he could get part of the inheritance And Christ refused saying who made me a judge or ruler over you? Paul the apostle reaffirmed this judgement that spiritual leaders are not to make financial decisions between believers when he said dare any of you go to law one against another and that before unbelievers? Let the least esteemed be the judge in such… Read more »
I'm awed by the spiritual maturity I see coming from the conversation here. Thanks to everyone keeping the conversation positive and edifying. I do have a couple of articles in my head that will find their way into the page soon.
God bless, and I hope everyone has a good "Easter" to use the SCOC's KJV. Lol
Donna, you are correct. That is exactly what they put into your mind.
Craig, I think you mentioned it before but how many of your kids go and are baptized? I'm still on top of my 2 boys every day to make sure they never step foot in there.. This blog takes alot of ink.. Lol
How a person uses knowledge/Wisdom tells you about their personality. In ecclesiastical Solomon makes an observation about a poor wise man who saved his city through his wisdom but was soon forgotten. The arrogant mind uses all knowledge to exalt and empower themselves, the conscience mind uses knowledge/Wisdom to help themselves and others at the same time. The poor wise man saved not only his city but himself in the process. To some knowledge is power(the arrogant) to others knowledge is salvation (those who follow their conscience). How do you use your knowledge?
Anon 9:43 two of four children attend with three mother. None of my children have been baptized in the cult. The two children who attend do so to be with friends which they do have good life long friends from the cult. They are bored with everything concerning the cult outside of the fellowships and friends. All my children are learning the truth about the cult, it’s practices and history as well as the unscriptural withdrawal of myself.
Donna 4:11 is what I was referring too.
It’s presented as an elite, exclusive club. It amazes me how Satan works to give up all of our past beliefs to follow a strange new doctrine. My dad was my hero growing up. He died when I was 14. I decided to live my life to make him proud, but after joining that cult they convinced me that my dad went to hell. I believed that for 36 years. I resent many things SCOC took from me, but if I hadn’t gone through those things, I wouldn’t be so grateful for God’s grace and the freedom He has given… Read more »
If they make a mistake, they say that the mistake was of God, and that he allowed it and sanctioned it. They don't believe they have to apologize or be contrite for their mistakes, but woe to the poor commoner who isn't contrite before them!!! If anyone opposes them, they will destroy that person's family before they will ever admit they were wrong. Admitting they were wrong is something they simply cannot do. They will commit suicide before they admit they were wrong. They shriek about the pride of any who oppose them and their authoritarian decrees, while exhibiting the… Read more »
They wonder why they don't grow. When I was withdrawn from in 2008, I told them, "You will not grow until you change your hopeless doctrine". Ten years later, the Vallejo church hasn't added five permanent members from the world, despite knocking on 300,000 doors. The futility of their efforts is quite obvious to see to everyone but them. Like the Southern Plantation owners in the Confederacy who forbade their slaves from reading, the Stanton Church strongly discourages any reading outside the Bible and the Bible reading must be in accord with the teachers opinion, or you are sowing seeds… Read more »
What is astounding to me, is even though I firmly believe masturbation and pornography are the number one threat to our nation, and I'm not alone, as Josh McDowell, Fight the New Drug, Alexander Rhodes, Gabe Deem, Noah Church, Mark Laaser, Steve Arterburn, Gail Dines ( a radical Marxist feminazi, but astute on the damaging effects of pornography, though explicitly and unnecesarily graphic), the National Coalition to End Sexual Exploitation, and Fred Stoeker all agree with me, the church keeps proceeding with it's disastrous efforts to become "pure". Damning people with church epithets like "effeminacy", or other imaginary consequences of… Read more »
One of my mistakes was getting on the Stanton FB page. I had never been on FB before July of 2013, and when I got on, I thought this would bring about change to the church. I got caught up in FB, among other things, and went from having a successful business, to losing just about everything. I'm not worried, because I know the same principles that got me that business, and by using them can get another one in about half the time, but it taught me not to use social media. I learned some valuable lessons too. Our… Read more »
Umm, pretty sure the Founders of America knew the Bible and history BETTER THAN EVERY SINGLE MAN IN THE STANTON CHURCH OF CHRIST. Unlike all of us in America today, the Founders didn't waste one minute watching hellivision, and the average American today wastes 9 years in front of it. The founders never used psychotropic drugs, and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the church or America who has never used mind altering drugs. They also never viewed porn, and 100% of the men in America today, including those in the church, have viewed porn at one time… Read more »
It's all mass disinformation. Over 90% of the sports teams are in Democrat cities, designed to distract the men from their duty. We are being enslaved and the Democrat equivalent of "Bread and Circuses" is Monday Night Football, porn, and welfare. Stanton is suckered nearly as bad as the world. I was a huge fan of sports in my youth and all the way up until about 8 years ago, when I was enlightened. Now, I'm disgusted by hellivision, Hollyweird, sports, entertainment, Democrats, the tech companies and a lot of other corrupt entities in our nation. I'll take the Founders… Read more »
Wow, ok. Kind of a document dump, but welcome, "Monte Christo." 🙂 Agreed on most of your observations except calling SCOC "our church." I think most readers would disagree with that. Other than that–welcome to the NRA! Lol
After reading all from Monte Christopher I would be depressed….very depressed. Thank goodness I am not! Maybe I live in a bubble but if so I am glad I do!
I am curious how he lost his business due to FB? In any event he has a few good points such as the cult wanting control of their flock, etc. will be waiting for more discussion from his comments. Wonder how he came up with the name?
he's a messano. Ryan
no. The story of Edmund Dantes, self-styled Count of Monte Cristo, is told with consummate skill. The victim of a miscarriage of justice, Dantes is fired by a desire for retribution and empowered by a stroke of providence. In his campaign of vengeance, he becomes an anonymous agent of fate. The sensational narrative of intrigue, betrayal, escape, and triumphant revenge moves at a cracking pace.
Donna, the moment I left Merie's Church I said exactly that to myself–I will not allow them to take me away from God! So many leave convinced it's the only place to find God so they just don't search for Him elsewhere. I saw that and experienced it in a prior withdrawal / falling away so I knew not to do it again as well as the spiritual damage that causes!For anyone to exalt Merie's Church despite knowing the spiritual death it causes to so many is naive and even ignorant.I absolutely love both the book and movie The Count… Read more »
you truly believe that they are all just robots? thats kind of rude considering everything theyve done for you. dont let your bitterness get the best of your words. and go ahead, deny the bitterness all you want, but your name calling, your wordings, and your tone would speak otherwise.
@ m long
Yeah I do think most are robots. A robot is controlled by another person. That's why people can disconnect from others by someone just telling them to. Even if they don't know the situation or don't bother finding out because they were programmed to respond that way. The term for those aiming to get out of cults is called "deprogramming" for a reason. It's not a new concept. And anon, you keep mentioning ALL they've done for me. Like what? What do you think people there sacrificed for me? A babysitting here and there? A friendship that most willingly cut… Read more »
Anon 7:09 I’ll second M Long’s description of most are robots withen the cult. Very true so many cannot think for themselves nor are they encouraged too. Just get counsel. As I’ve said before I’ll speak concerning the two haha counselors in Portland. They are not equipped to counsel kindergarteners. Absolute joke. And they are guiding peoples lives. Yikes. Do robots is a perfect description of these cult members which means I’m married to a robot. Lol
From one former robot to another, thank you Craig., 🙂
I am curious what formal education do these preachers have?
Concerned Outsider: When I was in, most had a high school education. A few had some college, I know the evangelist in the south has been to college in California. Not one of them, that I am aware of, ever had any training in counselling. No formal training that is. No going to seminars to be trained or online or by a school or business. Most were educated/trained by the example of their teacher/teachers. That's one of the things that concerned me. No training of preachers and teachers. No checks and balances as to how they are doing. No continual… Read more »
Concerned, Debby is correct. There is neither theological training or counseling training there. Lots of things end up being public fodder.
The funny thing is that the members are actually pretty good at keeping the whole cult's problems to themselves. That's the one thing they DON'T gossip about! Suddenly everything is a secret, kind of like this site is kept as secret as possible especially from younger ones!
Anon 8:40. You’re welcome. Yes a former robot. So happy to live my life not according to the two jokester counselors in Portland.
The biggest business in America today is student debt at $1.3 trillion. Formal schooling is a joke and the mainline Christian church is a disgrace. 90% of Christians know the hellivisions more than the Bible and history, and they are lukewarm and aren't even remotely close to going to heaven. Preachers educated in college are often in it for the pay, and teach to dead churches who are contributing to the demise of Christianity. If a church doesn't forbid birth control, you know for a fact they aren't going to heaven. Never mind our church, birth control was illegal in… Read more »
MC it's not the church's business to be forbidding anyone on birth control. If people today want only a certain number of kids that's their business. Maybe you did fine in a large family but I can think of at least a couple huge families who didn't. My ex used to say that he only had so many kids with his ex because Merie's church told him to. They ended up divorced. Either way, it's not the church's or the governnent's job to tell people how many kids to have. China does just that but to the other extreme. I… Read more »
Excuse me!!! This is the lukewarm church I'm talking about!!! Birth control is destructive to societies and it's really easy to deceive women on it. Just sucker them into the idea that having kids is a terrible pain and they fall for it. I'm right by a yoga studio, and the single and married women troop in all day long. They have as much joy as a person in a funeral. They are like zombies, mechanically pursuing a routine. They are trying to retain their beauty, but they refuse to fulfil the purpose of that beauty, which was to marry… Read more »
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Family/Parents%20Corner/big_families.htm I'm not really even kind about this, because America is being destroyed by her own citizens. Abe Lincoln, when he was only 28, said it very well, "How then shall we perform it?–At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it?– Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never!–All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by… Read more »
Our nation did just FINE before contraception was illicitly legalized by the same rogue SCOTUS in 1965, who went onto illicitly legalize porn four years later, and abortion, just four years after that. I'm afraid you have a serious disconnect when you compare outlawing birth control with China, who murders babies. Also, what you don't realize, is that a government that fails to ban abortion, contraception, porn, homosexuality, and psychotropic drugs, becomes a massive police state due to all the problems that arise as consequences of these vices. The Founders knew that liberty was impossible without virtue, and that libertarians… Read more »
That's awesome you have 6 children, but the entire purpose of sex is marriage and children. It's selfish to consider anything else. American women understood this before 1964 and our nation flourished. Since then, American men and women became selfish and our nation is destroying itself. This is why God gave the man the final say, because men don't just look at money and feelings, they look at the good of the society long term. I know there are plenty of women who will spitefully say, "Well then you'll never get married". That's fine!!!! I'll die alone and single. "It's… Read more »
And for me bothering to object to this Pharisaism, the church will blast out all of my confidences over the years, and make sure that everyone within earshot of a SCOC knows that Monte Cristo is a major league rebellious sinner, was a bad apple since birth, is public enemy number one, and should never be spoken to, as he is a dangerous deceive and deluded. Stanton also firmly believes I am crazy, (LOL, who don't they think that about who disagrees with them?), and that talking with me is no different from talking with Satan. I visited their May… Read more »
Anyhow, I have to tell you, M Long, your earlier exchange with the gentleman where you said it was off topic and you were leaving the conversation, WAS HILARIOUS!! I was laughing until I cried. Sorry, it was pure comedy. Anyhow, I mean no harm, but will not be silent on issues that matter, when we are in a nation that is dysfunctional, and a church that is dysfunctional too. Anyhow, before I leave, I was on FB for 2 and a half years, and one of my friends, who I talked with frequently, just went viral with a city… Read more »
MC, I stand by my right to decide when to stop having children. I thank God for the ones He gave me.
And boy are you all over the place. No wonder you're able to write a book. I hope you have a good editor to keep it focused!
I saw that video of your friend earlier today. He did a good job.
Adiós!
Monte Cristo, you obviously feel strongly about some of theses issues, and that's your right! But you do need to remember that just because you say it is so, (or any of us say it is so) doesn't make it so.Our nation did NOT do just fine before birth control. A lot of women died very young because of having large families, and not just from childbirth. Men have a lot of responsibilities in raising children, but nothing compared to what women go through, or what it does to their bodies. Even Merie's group admitted that having children too close… Read more »
MC 9:00. I heard the story of you being led out of the May meeting. I’d have fun if they ever try to strong arm me out of one of there functions. So GP said he listen to you but did not. Wow flat out LIAR GP is. No surprise.
Monte Cristo- I’m happy for you that you had a wonderful childhood and you said you were taught many good things in the Stanton CoC.Let me ask you, aside from the sexual issues, what good can you name being brought up in the “church”. Aside from good people I cannot name anything good. My kids were scarred for life due to control issues. My grown kids are very judge mental- I wonder where they learned that?I was the one who entertained my kids because my husband was an absentee father due to church schedule, but overall there was nothing good… Read more »
Monte Cristo- I drew a timeline from the past 40 years of all the teachings that existed AND CHANGED and the adverse affects those teachings had on the members, and often my family personally. I did it to prove to my husband that God has been telling him to ‘escape’ for 40 years. By their fruits ye shall know them.
There were people under Hitler’s regime who believed he lowered the employment rate, and he benefitted my artists of the day. That doesn’t mean that Nazi rule was good for the people.
Donna, I would love to see that timeline! I think it would give us a lot to think about! Would you mind sharing it? Or giving it to Kevin to share?
Debbie Stevens- I will have to revise it to post here, as much of it is personal injustices imposed by the Stanton “churches”. I will see what I can do.
Donna I'm interested too. As for the personal ones, I wonder if others will find that similar things happened to them too. Just a thought.
I think that you all are focusing too much on the SCOC and the teachings of the present and past of it. Just a small word of advice; don't dwell on those things and don't put too much of your energy into it. Focus on making yourself a better christian and focus on becoming closer to God. Don't put effort into drawing a timeline from the past 40 years. What's that going to do for you? Focus on studying your bible and finding the truth. Not copying the history of wrong teachings.
Anon 8:59 kind of hard to do when they continue to rip families apart and separate them with their man made rules. I was one of them. People that do this need to be stopped if possible. I'd give most anything to see this happen
I think we need to continue to share ideas for those who still have family members inside the four walls of the cult. How do we live with them without destroying our families. MC got the blog way off track….perhaps now we will see and get the focus back on track. Of course, hopeful most of us are attending healthy churches and finding our way. And surrounding ourselves with family who love us and re building our relationships
Anons above: I see both points. I agree more with sharing ideas and keeping this blog going. It was the catalyst I needed to get out. How many more of us are there? I'm not just going to go about my days pretending I didn't participate and pretend like what's going on there is OK. Ripping apart loved ones is not ok.
M Long me either as I am still connected in a small way making sure my family stays far away from there. But after this blog who would ever even give the place one foot in the door Scary lol
MC, could we please wait until your book comes out to read your thoughts? or maybe you could start your own blog?
AnonymousApril 9, 2018 at 4:27 PM. Please don't advertise your ignorance for the world to see. Thank you!! Until you've read five biographies of America's Founders, you have no business talking about the church or politics. The impudence and impertinence of many on this thread is breathtaking and they don't even know what they don't know. AnonymousApril 9, 2018 at 10:58 AMLast I checked, the truth was never off topic to those who value it. It's always off topic to those who are living a lie. And your church is broke. The entire Christian church is broke, and it's mindless… Read more »
Whoa! Do you hate women MC?
My husband and I have discovered that if you read MC's comments out loud they are much more entertaining. Y'all should try it. (My hubby, imitating MC): "I have forgotten more than you'll ever know." hahaha… MC, you are actually proving our point. As one of 18 kids, the oldest at that, you seriously needed some attention from parents instead of books or babysitters in the SCOC. Balance in life is a good thing, called temperance in the Bible, and something both you and Merie Weiss do/did not have. Kevin, if you haven't read at least 5 books from the… Read more »
Kindly have your henpecked husband speak for himself. I'd be glad to debate him on any topic he prefers and have not the least doubt about the outcome. You haven't used a shred of factual, biblical, or historical evidence to uphold your nonsensical and heretical views of birth control, but yet bother yourself to come on here, and viciously attack the facts I have posted. And you have no shame. I didn't attack you, you are a busybody and came and attacked me. Like a scorner and a scoffer, you don't care what the truth is, you do as the… Read more »
Anon 8:59 on April 9th agree with some of what you say. However, do all possible to expose this cult for what they really are. Hopefully more members will begin to get educated about what they are really involved in. Here in the Portland/Vancouver area I’m looking towards shutting them down. They can take there evil elsewhere. Not in my town. People will become educated that they are a cult. Period.
Just to drop into a May Meeting and listen in on the hours spent on breaking of the bread should be enough for any member to see what one person's mind can think and then live their life by such a person's mind. It's pure craziness! I can't. I just can't! Ugh! I'd want an explanation from him in why that was even said and to explain it all. Really!
Pretty sure MC is schizophrenic/ has multiple personality disorder.
AnonApril 10, 2018 at 10:34 PM Sigmund Freud, is that you?Psychiatry is a total fraud, and anyone who believes in it, or the mind altering substances used to address it, is themselves mentally disturbed. Any psychiatrist reading Psalms or all of the Gospels would promptly label David and Christ as schizophrenic and as having multiple personality disorder. Liberalism is a mental illness, yet they swear everyone else is mentally ill. The above writer repeats the liberals delusional thinking. The astute reader can note that none of the facts or history I post can be refuted, instead opponents attack with a… Read more »
MC 2:18 your last sentence very funny and true. Anon 10:34 do you know MC? Great guy btw. One who has been miss treated by the cult. Unscriptural withdrawals, being marked and avoided by clowns when members and nonmember’s disagree with there foolish rules and man made doctrines. GP is a coward won’t face his critics. TC and KS as well.
Thank you Craig:).
Thank you Donna. Yes, I think my childhood in Stanton was very similar to that of the Founders or Lincoln. No hellivision, we were protected from most of the filth of the world, and no drugs, combined with lots of reading and outdoors, along with interaction with others often. I'm very happy about that, and am finishing up a memoir about it. I think it will sell quite well. If Michelle Obama can make $65 million from a book that is absolute nonsense, I think I can make at least $10 million from a book that has the roots of… Read more »
I know the world is so dysfunctional and they make the church out to be some wicked place. Well, the world is all dysfunctional. The mainline churches are a disgraceful wreck. 90% of them know their hellivisions more than their Bibles. The lukewarm Christians are the worst. They use words like "judgemental, Pharisees, legalistic, Proud, arrogant, and conceited" to talk about the Christians who actually do study the Bible and live lives guided by it. The atheists are going to heaven before the lukewarm Christians are. These lukewarm Christians are backstabbers too. You no sooner stand for some biblical topic… Read more »
I'm not attending anywhere. I've attended dozens of churches, but I'm sorry, I refuse to prostitute truth for unity. Other churches are very similar to our church. As soon as you start disagreeing with the leaders unscriptural views, you get loud teaching on pride and arrogance. No different from what happened to Martin Luther in the 1500's. Leaders never voluntarily give up power. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" as Lord Acton said. Yes, there were quite a few teachings that changed over the last 40 years. My mother often tells me Merie was a good woman, and never… Read more »
I look at Stanton and then I look at society as a whole and Stanton looks like a perfect paradise. 110 million Americans have an STD, biblical illiteracy is at all time highs, we pay $700 billion a year for drug, alcohol, and tobacco issues, and only $600 billion a year for nation defense, meaning we pay more to destroy ourselves than we do to protect ourselves. 70 million Americans are on psychotropic drugs. Our schools are indoctrination centers. 80% of 11 year old boys are looking at porn. The rape rate has gone up at least 10 times since… Read more »
Our church isn't anything close to a cult. Jim Jones, the JW's, LDS, SDA, and David Koresh are cults. No one in our church today resembles Muhammad or Joseph Smith. So using the cult term is completely off base. Islam is a cult. When I hear people on hear whining about being hurt by Stanton, I have to laugh. Muhammad makes Stanton look like perfect angels. The man brutally murdered thousands, had 8 wives, and took a 9 year old as a wife. Islam has killed more in 1,400 years than any other culture in world history. It's clocking in… Read more »
Thank you Kevin! I'm looking forward to the NRA, and buying a few rifles and handguns. A disarmed population is a population that is easy to control. Germany, Russia, Cambodia, and China had 100 million slaughtered after they were disarmed. To AnonymousApril 3, 2018 at 6:45 PM. I'm not depressed. I feel like Churchill when bombs were dropping on London from Hitler and all seemed lost. It's long, but wisdom is never easy. I spent too much time on FB. Learned a lot. Talked with at least 25,000 people from all over American and learned a whole lot. I also… Read more »
The ten months that have passed have seen very terrible catastrophic events in the world–ups and downs, misfortunes– but can anyone sitting here this afternoon, this October afternoon, not feel deeply thankful for what has happened in the time that has passed and for the very great improvement in the position of our country and of our home? Why, when I was here last time we were quite alone, desperately alone, and we had been so for five or six months. We were poorly armed. We are not so poorly armed today; but then we were very poorly armed. We… Read more »
Another lesson I think we may take, just throwing our minds back to our meeting here ten months ago and now, is that appearances are often very deceptive, and as Kipling well says, we must "…meet with Triumph and Disaster. And treat those two impostors just the same." You cannot tell from appearances how things will go. Sometimes imagination makes things out far worse than they are; yet without imagination not much can be done. Those people who are imaginative see many more dangers than perhaps exist; certainly many more than will happen; but then they must also pray to… Read more »
As for M Long, no one can truly harm us but us. Other humans mistreatment of us cannot destroy any of us, unless we consent to be bitter. While I can denounce them, I still harbor love for them. I refuse to allow any man to make me hate him. "I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him." Victor Frankl and Corrie Ten Boom had great books in "Man's search for Meaning" and "The hiding place" respectively, where both talked about how they learned to be content and grateful in Concentration camps under the… Read more »